Date   

New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /Cudahy Reefer/cudahy 5557 600dpi003.jpg
Uploaded by : hardingdouglas <doug.harding@iowacentralrr.org>
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Regards,

hardingdouglas <doug.harding@iowacentralrr.org>


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /Cudahy Reefer/cudahy 5557 1200dpi001 end.tif
Uploaded by : hardingdouglas <doug.harding@iowacentralrr.org>
Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
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To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,

hardingdouglas <doug.harding@iowacentralrr.org>


Buick Racing Team “Box Car”

thecitrusbelt@...
 

This link is to a circa 1908 image of a special boxcar (looks more like a converted passenger car) used by Buick to haul its racing cars:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IjXsMuUrTqM/UYuGjkhTkuI/AAAAAAAAUYk/IMsCQmsdZ9c/s1600/buick+team+railcar.JPG

 

A brief discussion of this car is found on Page 34 (fourth column) in the article on this link:

http://www.buickheritagealliance.org/content/pdf/BuickRaceCarsFromHell2.pdf

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Discussion of Wood Roofs on House Cars

Craig Bisgeier
 

Randy, thank you for the paper on the early roof systems.  Very interesting.  There appears to be a page (or more) missing between page 8 and 9, though.
 
Craig Bisgeier
Clifton, NJ
 
Visit the Housatonic Model Railroad website at:

The programmer's wife tells him, "Go to the store and get a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen."  The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


Re: STMFC

Rick Jesionowski
 

Are there any models available for this car, the DT&I ended up with some and they kept the map herald with new DT&I reporting marks.  

And I would like one of these cars!

Rick Jesionowski


(No subject)

seaboard_1966
 

Folks, the 2014 Central Ohio RPM was held this past weekend at Marion Union Station.  We had over 500 models on display and about 65 folks attending the meet.  9 clinics were presented and the NS executive train made an appearance as well. 
 
I have posted photos to my photobucket page and urge folks to check them out.
 
 
We were missing a usual attendee, Andy Harman could not be there for serious health issues.  We are happy to hear that things are looking up for Andy and look forward to having him there next year.
 
Next years meet is planned for April 23-25 at Marion Union Station.  We hope to see you there.
 
Denis Blake
Central Ohio RPM


Re: ORER 1901-1917 from Google Books

Doug Chapman
 

Eric, thanks for the great work in compiling this document!  It really helps those of us interested in the WWI era railroading. 

Doug Chapman


Re: ORER 1901-1917 from Google Books

babbo_enzo@...
 

"Sorry! Books on Google Play is not available in your country yet.
We're working to bring the content you love to more countries as quickly as possible.Please check back again soon."

Thanks anyway for your work!
Enzo Fortuna


Re: Santa Fe Bx-11/12 extended roof rebuilds

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 27, 2014, at 8:11 PM, David bott <dbott@...> wrote:

Where can I find Larry Occhello's list you reference below?

David, it was published years ago (1991) by the Santa Fe Modelers Organization, a predecessor of the present-day Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society, and has long been out of print.  However, you might find a copy on E-Bay, ABE, or one of the other common sources for second-hand books.

Richard Hendrickson



Re: Santa Fe Bx-11/12 extended roof rebuilds

John Barry
 

David,

For now you will have to find it on the secondary market as it is out of print on the ATSF society website.

This is unfortunate as it truly is an invaluable reference.  I hear rumors of an update that will bring it to the merger in 1995. 
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682



From: David bott <dbott@...>
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Santa Fe Bx-11/12 extended roof rebuilds

 
Where can I find Larry Occhello's list you reference below?

David Bott



> On Apr 27, 2014, at 1:19 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:
>
> Larry Occhello’s Freight Cars by Class and Car Number 1906-1991, which I find to be an invaluable reference, shows 2,000 Bx-11s rebuilt with extended roofs in 1941. O



Re: Santa Fe Bx-11/12 extended roof rebuilds

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Where can I find Larry Occhello's list you reference below?

David Bott

On Apr 27, 2014, at 1:19 PM, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com> wrote:

Larry Occhello’s Freight Cars by Class and Car Number 1906-1991, which I find to be an invaluable reference, shows 2,000 Bx-11s rebuilt with extended roofs in 1941. O


Walthers P2K as Santa Fe Auto cars

John Barry
 

I see from the 1950 Significant Freight Car Classes posted on the ATSFRR.org website that the P2K kit is the basis for many of the ATSF 50' Auto cars.  Where can I find info on modifying it for the Fe-24 and bashing it for the others?  Neo defeated my attempt to search the STMFC archive and I did not see a modeling article link on the Society website.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


RC HO Barber 70 Ton S2 Trucks

 

After a wait of several years, I am offering the Red Caboose 70 Ton truck
to the group at $3.90/pair without wheel sets. Postage will be added and
for Paypal, their extra fees will be added.

These trucks were originally done for the RC SP F-70-7 flatcar and other SP
cars used these trucks also, although spring packs varied on some. As
Richard Hendrickson noted:"the Barber S-2 was one of the two truck designs
that were widely used from the end of WW II through the '50s (the other
being the ASF A-3), so the 70 ton Barber S-2 was applied to many cars built
for many different railroads, chiefly (but not exclusively) flat cars, mill
gondolas, large hoppers, and covered hoppers. Later in the '50s, they were
also applied to a growing number of 70 ton box, auto, insulated box, and
mechanical refrigerator cars.
.If you are interested or have questions, contact me OFF LIST at
<espeefan@...>. Thanks.

Dan Smith


__


Re: Caboose Signal Valves

Paul Hillman
 


Jim, Very beautiful stories and facts and history. Wish I could have been there too. Never got to work for a RR but applied to the SP twice. Always missed their hiring dates.
 
Thanks for all the details.
 
Paul Hillman
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Caboose Signal Valves

 

To add to the answers about caboose whistle valves and as someone who rode cabooses for a living during the first 10 years of my career, it should be noted that use of the whistle, especially on long trains, was discouraged due to the fact that a small brake pipe reduction from the rear end could cause sticking brakes in the train.

Also, as noted by someone, many railroads had different components on their cabs in addition to the whistle and brake pipe valves.  For example, the B&O had a rod and lever attachment that allowed the conductor and/or flagman to close the angle cock from the rear platform of the cab as well as a chain that was connected to the operating lever and ended on the platform cross-rail.  These were used to cut helpers off on the fly, common on the B&O that used helpers extensively east or Pittsburgh (all the way to Philadelphia).  Other railroads required the rear-end train crews to get down on the steps to lift the cut lever, and lay down on the rear platform to close the angle cock. 

With regard to the brake pipe valves (both at the ends and inside near the cupola or bay window), these were used extensively in pre-radio days in order to stop a train if a defect was seen from the rear-end.  For example, sticking brakes, hot journal, shifted load, etc.  They were not used to put the air in the emergency position except when the reason for stopping the train dictated an emergency application.  Many crews liked to use the valve on the rear platform because it was not "stepped" like the ones inside the cab.  This was because the "stepped" valves were subjected to a greater effort in applying the brakes, and could result in an accidental emergency application.  Brake applications from the rear end were done for a number of additional reasons.  For example, when entering the receiving tracks at Potomac Yard, we would stop the train from the rear end as soon as we were in the clear because the RF&P wanted the trains as near the north end of the tracks as possible; also, our motel was right across a field from the north end of the receiving tracks, so the flagman had a short walk over to where we stayed.  Usually moves like this were known by the engine crew, so they would handle the train accordingly (i.e. slow down around the middle of the receiving track, refrain from using the automatic brake, etc.).

Jim Wolf
Belen, NM


Re: Caboose Signal Valves

Jim Wolf
 

To add to the answers about caboose whistle valves and as someone who rode cabooses for a living during the first 10 years of my career, it should be noted that use of the whistle, especially on long trains, was discouraged due to the fact that a small brake pipe reduction from the rear end could cause sticking brakes in the train.

Also, as noted by someone, many railroads had different components on their cabs in addition to the whistle and brake pipe valves.  For example, the B&O had a rod and lever attachment that allowed the conductor and/or flagman to close the angle cock from the rear platform of the cab as well as a chain that was connected to the operating lever and ended on the platform cross-rail.  These were used to cut helpers off on the fly, common on the B&O that used helpers extensively east or Pittsburgh (all the way to Philadelphia).  Other railroads required the rear-end train crews to get down on the steps to lift the cut lever, and lay down on the rear platform to close the angle cock. 

With regard to the brake pipe valves (both at the ends and inside near the cupola or bay window), these were used extensively in pre-radio days in order to stop a train if a defect was seen from the rear-end.  For example, sticking brakes, hot journal, shifted load, etc.  They were not used to put the air in the emergency position except when the reason for stopping the train dictated an emergency application.  Many crews liked to use the valve on the rear platform because it was not "stepped" like the ones inside the cab.  This was because the "stepped" valves were subjected to a greater effort in applying the brakes, and could result in an accidental emergency application.  Brake applications from the rear end were done for a number of additional reasons.  For example, when entering the receiving tracks at Potomac Yard, we would stop the train from the rear end as soon as we were in the clear because the RF&P wanted the trains as near the north end of the tracks as possible; also, our motel was right across a field from the north end of the receiving tracks, so the flagman had a short walk over to where we stayed.  Usually moves like this were known by the engine crew, so they would handle the train accordingly (i.e. slow down around the middle of the receiving track, refrain from using the automatic brake, etc.).

Jim Wolf
Belen, NM


Re: Santa Fe Bx-11/12 extended roof rebuilds

John Barry
 

Richard,

That information guides me to the hypothesis that the number of 6 inch extensions was small and quickly supplanted by the 12 inch version which was evidently applied to nearly 4200 of the  5436 Bx-11/12 extant in 1945 leaving about 1000 Bx-11 and 200 Bx-12 with either the original roof or short extension.  Given that my modeling ratio is 1/250, I should be looking for 13 Bx-12 and 4 Bx-11 with the high roof, 1 or 2 Bx-11 with the intermediate, and 3-4 Bx-11 and one Bx-12 in original configuration, all with original numbers in 1944 unless I model the 211050.  

It would be interesting to compile a list of  the car numbers known in each configuration. 
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682



From: Richard Hendrickson
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Santa Fe Bx-11/12 extended roof rebuilds

 
On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:18 PM, John Barry <northbaylines@...> wrote:

Do the photos show any original height cars post 45?  And post 53, what #s are the lower 10' rebuilds wearing?  Those answers could wrap up the quandary.
The photos I have show that many un-rebuilt Bx-11s and Bx-12s survived through the 1950s and, in some cases, into the ‘60s with original radial steel roofs.  I also have a lot of photos of the cars with the 12” high roof extensions, as many of those cars remained in revenue service through the 1960s.  For the cars with 6” roof extensions, I only have a few photos and some of those show the cars after they were assigned to zinc concentrate loading (or, later, hide loading) and renumbered into the 41200-41399 series.  However, the photos I do have show the cars with original numbers in later years, so apparently the Santa Fe didn’t feel it was necessary to differentiate the cars with 10’ IH from the cars with original roofs and 9’6” IH, either in company documents or in the ORER entries.

Richard Hendrickson




Re: Caboose Signal Valves

Dennis Storzek
 

The proper answer is "all of the above." Cabooses I'm familiar with had three brake valves, one that was within reach of the seats in the cupola, and one on each end railing.

The one in the cupola was for emergency use... back in the days before radio, if the conductor realized they were passing the station where they were supposed to wait for a meet, this is how he "pulled the air" on the engineer.

The ones on the end railings were used while backing, they gave the trainman the ability to set the brakes RIGHT NOW. These weren't a full brake valve like the engineer had, and were typically refered to as "dump valves", because justopening it full had the same effect as a parted air hose, and would put the brakes in emergency for sure. It was possible, however, to open the valve slowly to the point where it was exhausting more air than the locomotive could pump against it, and a gradual application would result. If this was done during the normal course of operations, meaning the engineer was expecting to be stopped from the rear end, it did serve as a signal of sorts, as the engineer could see the result on his air gauge.

When backing, the man on the tail end had to be able to sound all the appropriate whistle signals, so the caboose end railing also was equipped with an air whistle. The slickest one is shown in this photo:

http://www.bridge-line.org/blhs/images/nonrev/Caboose/whistle.jpg

This is a combined brake valve and whistle. The opening that the brake pipe exhausts from is faced away from the camera; the exhaust port is elbow shaped so the man operating it doesn't get a blast of air in the face. The main valve handle is hollow and serves as the whistle, operated by a poppet valve behind the button on the pivot.

A more common arrangement was to build all the functions out of pipe fittings, such as in this photo (Ihave no idea who the kid is):

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/tylerandryan/TylerAge7/080707TyleronCaboose.jpg

The pipe with the cap on top is a shop made whistle, you can just see the notch on it's right side just above the pipe coupling. It's operated with a standard cut-off cock. The pipe leading down from the tee connects to the trainline, and the cut-out cock below that's just open to the atmosphere is the dump valve.

Dennis Storzek


---In STMFC@..., <chris_hillman@...> wrote :


Thanks, Charles, Richard and Mike. Sounds like I got that mystery answered. This is a great group!!!
 
Paul Hillman
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Caboose Signal Valves

 

Back-up whistles----Stand on the platform while backing up.  Sound whistle as needed/necessary.   Mike
On Sunday, April 27, 2014 2:19 PM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:
 
It was usual on many railroads to have a whistle on both ends of a caboose
for backing movements across grade crossings and such. Handy to warn
people or livestock as well.  From the caboose one could make a full emergency
brake application.  I suppose a normal brake pipe reduction could be made as
well but might cause a fight with the engineer in pre-radio days.
Passenger cars were set up with a separate signal line for the trainmens use.
I can't say it was not possible to signal using the trainline air but I would think
that by the time the engine got enough air drop to notice, the rear of the
train might be in full application.
Chuck Peck


On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 1:53 PM, <chris_hillman@...> wrote:
 
In the process of building some caboose models, I've noticed, on the end-platforn railings, there are some small valves with a vertical handle. I thought that I'd read long ago, that there was an air-valve in the caboose for sending signals to the engineer using the train air-line.
 
I Googled "Caboose Signal Valve" and it came up as a caboose-valve for setting the brakes from the caboose if in the case of an emergency, or for braking the caboose if it's been uncoupled and free-rolling. It said that this valve was inside the caboose and was used by the conductor.
 
In one caboose photo there are 2 such valves on a pipe "Y" with one air-pipe coming up from the end-beam.
 
What would have been the "real" purpose of these end-hand-rail valves?
 
Thanks, Paul Hillman




Re: Caboose Signal Valves

Bill Vaughn
 

There are a whistle and an emergency valve on the both ends of a caboose railings.  Also an emergency valve inside the caboose.

Bill Vaughn

On Sunday, April 27, 2014 12:21 PM, Paul Hillman wrote:
 

Thanks, Charles, Richard and Mike. Sounds like I got that mystery answered. This is a great group!!!
 
Paul Hillman
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Caboose Signal Valves

 
Back-up whistles----Stand on the platform while backing up.  Sound whistle as needed/necessary.   Mike
On Sunday, April 27, 2014 2:19 PM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:
 
It was usual on many railroads to have a whistle on both ends of a caboose
for backing movements across grade crossings and such. Handy to warn
people or livestock as well.  From the caboose one could make a full emergency
brake application.  I suppose a normal brake pipe reduction could be made as
well but might cause a fight with the engineer in pre-radio days.
Passenger cars were set up with a separate signal line for the trainmens use.
I can't say it was not possible to signal using the trainline air but I would think
that by the time the engine got enough air drop to notice, the rear of the
train might be in full application.
Chuck Peck


On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 1:53 PM, <chris_hillman@...> wrote:
 
In the process of building some caboose models, I've noticed, on the end-platforn railings, there are some small valves with a vertical handle. I thought that I'd read long ago, that there was an air-valve in the caboose for sending signals to the engineer using the train air-line.
 
I Googled "Caboose Signal Valve" and it came up as a caboose-valve for setting the brakes from the caboose if in the case of an emergency, or for braking the caboose if it's been uncoupled and free-rolling. It said that this valve was inside the caboose and was used by the conductor.
 
In one caboose photo there are 2 such valves on a pipe "Y" with one air-pipe coming up from the end-beam.
 
What would have been the "real" purpose of these end-hand-rail valves?
 
Thanks, Paul Hillman






Re: Santa Fe Bx-11/12 extended roof rebuilds

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:18 PM, John Barry <northbaylines@...> wrote:

Do the photos show any original height cars post 45?  And post 53, what #s are the lower 10' rebuilds wearing?  Those answers could wrap up the quandary.
The photos I have show that many un-rebuilt Bx-11s and Bx-12s survived through the 1950s and, in some cases, into the ‘60s with original radial steel roofs.  I also have a lot of photos of the cars with the 12” high roof extensions, as many of those cars remained in revenue service through the 1960s.  For the cars with 6” roof extensions, I only have a few photos and some of those show the cars after they were assigned to zinc concentrate loading (or, later, hide loading) and renumbered into the 41200-41399 series.  However, the photos I do have show the cars with original numbers in later years, so apparently the Santa Fe didn’t feel it was necessary to differentiate the cars with 10’ IH from the cars with original roofs and 9’6” IH, either in company documents or in the ORER entries.

Richard Hendrickson



Re: Caboose Signal Valves

Paul Hillman
 


Thanks, Charles, Richard and Mike. Sounds like I got that mystery answered. This is a great group!!!
 
Paul Hillman
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2014 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Caboose Signal Valves

 

Back-up whistles----Stand on the platform while backing up.  Sound whistle as needed/necessary.   Mike
On Sunday, April 27, 2014 2:19 PM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:
 
It was usual on many railroads to have a whistle on both ends of a caboose
for backing movements across grade crossings and such. Handy to warn
people or livestock as well.  From the caboose one could make a full emergency
brake application.  I suppose a normal brake pipe reduction could be made as
well but might cause a fight with the engineer in pre-radio days.
Passenger cars were set up with a separate signal line for the trainmens use.
I can't say it was not possible to signal using the trainline air but I would think
that by the time the engine got enough air drop to notice, the rear of the
train might be in full application.
Chuck Peck


On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 1:53 PM, <chris_hillman@...> wrote:
 
In the process of building some caboose models, I've noticed, on the end-platforn railings, there are some small valves with a vertical handle. I thought that I'd read long ago, that there was an air-valve in the caboose for sending signals to the engineer using the train air-line.
 
I Googled "Caboose Signal Valve" and it came up as a caboose-valve for setting the brakes from the caboose if in the case of an emergency, or for braking the caboose if it's been uncoupled and free-rolling. It said that this valve was inside the caboose and was used by the conductor.
 
In one caboose photo there are 2 such valves on a pipe "Y" with one air-pipe coming up from the end-beam.
 
What would have been the "real" purpose of these end-hand-rail valves?
 
Thanks, Paul Hillman



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