Date   

Re: Scientific nomenclature

Geodyssey
 

Eric,


The coupler pin is raised up no matter how the bar/rod is connected, top or bottom.  So "coupler lift bar" is ok (well, by me).  Also, there really isn't a single "official" name for the device, let alone a "scientific" name.  There are just accepted names.


Robert Simpson

ex-pin puller, switch thrower and friction bearing dealer-wither.





---In STMFC@..., <eaneubauer@...> wrote :

I'd guess coupler (or pin) lift bar would apply only when the lever went to the top of the coupler.
 
Eric N.
 

 
Hi Clark,

Formally (as in Cyclopedias) it's the "uncoupling lever," but many railroaders call it the "cut lever" for what it does. "Coupler lift bar" is a model railroad term as far as I can tell.

So long,

Andy


Re: erie 82582 Branchline 40' AAR boxcar kit 6' door, delivery scheme

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 4, 2014, at 7:46 PM, Robert <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

Thanks Richard,
Of note, the model comes with a black roof; the photo you so graciously provided shows the ends black but, if I am not mistaken, the roof in the same colour as the sides.

I agree.  Many Erie box cars did have black roofs, but the photo shows that this class apparently did not when they were delivered from the builder.

Richard Hendrickson



Re: Scientific nomenclature

albyrno
 

Clark,
 Look in one of the car builders cyclopedias. These will literally tell you what kitchen sink was used in passenger cars,among other appliances and hardware.There are diagrams of coupler components listed in these.
   Alan


decals

John Trulson <norskeviking@...>
 

We've been using MicroScale decal film in both clear and white and also their Micro Sol decal set for over 11 years without any problems on Alps printer. Have no reason to change at this point as it's working great.  John Trulson


Re: Decal Problems

Craig Bisgeier
 

FWIW, I have always used blue-backing BEL decal paper in my ALPS and I have printed decals that are close to 10 years old that still float off and snuggle down nicely.  Really thin film too, when applied properly they completely disappear into the gloss finish. Occasionally with the oldest decals I get a crack or two when sliding them off the paper but usually it's no big deal. I suppose that may get worse as they get older but heck, where would I be without them in the first place?  

I bet the Tango Papa paper is also great, but I have no experience with it.
 
Craig Bisgeier
Clifton, NJ
 
Visit the Housatonic Model Railroad website at:

The programmer's wife tells him, "Go to the store and get a loaf of bread. If they have eggs, get a dozen."  The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread.


Re: Decal problems

sprinthag@...
 

Alps printed decals can be tough to get to settle around surface details, especially rows of rivets among other things. This depends a lot on how they were printed and, to some extent, cannot be avoided. The reason for this is the number of layers of ink that may be involved in the printing of Alps decals. If the printer (the person not the machine) is using spot colors the number of printing passes may vary from one to several and will almost for certain contain at least two unless the color of the print is black or metallic gold or silver in which cases only one pass may be used.

If the printer is using the normal color matching system there will be four passes involved at a minimum. add to either method a layer or two of white for opaqueness and you can get some thick ink. Now for black or the metallic colors a white undercoat it not necessary of opaqueness.

The best way to decal using Alps decals is to soak all the glue off the decal and lay it on a paper towel to dry. Then place a puddle of Solvaset or other stetting solution on the place where the decal will be placed and position the decal on top. This does require quick work as there is very limited time to get the decal positioned before it becomes so soft that any attempt to further move it will damage it. This method is used by many for all kinds of decals as works very well to settle the decal around surface details. There have been several articles in the modelling press over the years espousing this method and it does work well.

The problem with getting  the decal off the backing may go back to decal paper problems from a couple of years ago when almost all paper suppliers had problems. There are few providers of bare decal paper world wide and at one time one of them made a bad batch of paper. Bare decal paper is teh backing, usually light blue in color to which the decal carrier film is placed. This is the printing surface and is the film that we all have to soften in order for the decal to settle down and that we then apply overcoats to help hide the film on the finished model.

The paper in question made it near impossible to get a decal to slide off eh backing without breaking up into unusable  pieces of confetti. I had some and I had gotten it from more than one of the printer ready decal paper suppliers. There is nothing to do for it if this is what you have. If you can get your supplier to reprint for you fine, other wise your are s.o.l. I had to reprint several orders using exactly the same method on new paper to replace the bad stuff and the re-prints all worked just fine. I also had to toss several sheets of the crappy paper. Oh well, stuff happens.

While the settling situation can be difficult to work with be aware that Alps decals often are more opaque than any other method of printing. The simple fact is that any decal that is fully opaque is going to have ink or pigmented color (i.e., paint) that is going to thicker than "normal", whatever that is. And thicker means stiffer. I have had several customers remark at the opaqueness of my decals as compared to others using screen or offset printing methods. Yes this will include some very recognizable names.

John Hagen


Re: Ribbed Back Wheels

Tony Thompson
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:

Tony, I take it this also explains the existence of cast iron wheels without ribs – i.e. ribs weren’t necessary?

       Exactly.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Ribbed Back Wheels

Robert kirkham
 

Tony, I take it this also explains the existence of cast iron wheels without ribs – i.e. ribs weren’t necessary?
 
Rob Kirkham 
 

Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ribbed Back Wheels
 


Paul Hillman wrote:
 
A few days ago there was a discussion about the purpose of ribbed back wheels, and the answer was the "ribs" were there for cooling during forming - casting of the iron wheels. But, when did we see ribbed-backed wheels disappear from the rails? Apparently the "ribs" went away with the use of steel in wheel making.

    Not sure what discussion you reference. But it is simply NOT true that the ribs had anything to do with cooling. They are there to strengthen AND stiffen the wheel. Later analysis showed that the effect is not large, so simple wheel plate shapes have been used ever since. The casting process can be used to make either kind of wheel, whether the wheel is cast iron or cast steel, so the ribs have nothing to do with whether they are iron or steel.
     Chilled iron wheels are cast with chills at the wheel tread to improve performance of that area. That process has nothing whatever to do with ribs. Railroads realized as early as 1930 that steel wheels provided better durability, but also cost more, and moreover were often in short supply. Especially after World War II, railroads placing orders for new cars with wrought steel wheels had to accept part or all of the order with cast wheels, because production of wrought wheels could not keep up.
     My basis for this is not only my professional experience in both academic and industrial metallurgy, but my multi-year experience on the AAR Research Committee, involved in research on materials for both rail and wheels, including meetings at the AAR Research Facility near Pueblo, Colorado (now the Transportation Technology Center). Believe me, we covered wheel production and wheel materials to exhaustion.

Tony Thompson
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937;
e-mail: tony@...


Re: Ribbed Back Wheels

Tony Thompson
 

Paul Hillman wrote:

A few days ago there was a discussion about the purpose of ribbed back wheels, and the answer was the "ribs" were there for cooling during forming - casting of the iron wheels. But, when did we see ribbed-backed wheels disappear from the rails? Apparently the "ribs" went away with the use of steel in wheel making.

    Not sure what discussion you reference. But it is simply NOT true that the ribs had anything to do with cooling. They are there to strengthen AND stiffen the wheel. Later analysis showed that the effect is not large, so simple wheel plate shapes have been used ever since. The casting process can be used to make either kind of wheel, whether the wheel is cast iron or cast steel, so the ribs have nothing to do with whether they are iron or steel.
     Chilled iron wheels are cast with chills at the wheel tread to improve performance of that area. That process has nothing whatever to do with ribs. Railroads realized as early as 1930 that steel wheels provided better durability, but also cost more, and moreover were often in short supply. Especially after World War II, railroads placing orders for new cars with wrought steel wheels had to accept part or all of the order with cast wheels, because production of wrought wheels could not keep up.
     My basis for this is not only my professional experience in both academic and industrial metallurgy, but my multi-year experience on the AAR Research Committee, involved in research on materials for both rail and wheels, including meetings at the AAR Research Facility near Pueblo, Colorado (now the Transportation Technology Center). Believe me, we covered wheel production and wheel materials to exhaustion.

Tony Thompson
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937;
e-mail: tony@...


Re: Ribbed Back Wheels

John Sykes III
 

Missed it on the proof reading.  Should be:  John H. White's, "The American Railroad Passenger Car" (specifically Volume II).  Sorry.


-- John


Re: Ribbed Back Wheels

John Sykes III
 

Ribbed back, or more properly, chilled iron wheels were very popular with the railroads because of their low initial cost.  However, since they could not be turned if flat-spotted, they proved to be more expensive in the long run.  Some railroads, such as the PRR began replacing them with forged steel wheels as early as the1930's.  However, it wasn't until 1958 that the AAR forbade them on newly constructed cars.  Manufacturing ceased a few years later.  They were banned from interchange in 1968; however, many railroads continued to use them on house cars until no longer available.


Much of the above information is from John H. White's, "The American Passenger Car".


-- John


Ribbed Back Wheels

Paul Hillman
 

A few days ago there was a discussion about the purpose of ribbed back wheels, and the answer was the "ribs" were there for cooling during forming - casting of the iron wheels. But, when did we see ribbed-backed wheels disappear from the rails? Apparently the "ribs" went away with the use of steel in wheel making.

 

So, what time period is proper for using ribbed-back wheels? Was there some RR "rule" condemning them?

 

Paul Hillman


Re: erie 82582 Branchline 40' AAR boxcar kit 6' door, delivery scheme

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks Richard,
 
Of note, the model comes with a black roof; the photo you so graciously provided shows the ends black but, if I am not mistaken, the roof in the same colour as the sides. 
 
Very helpful for completing the model.
 
Thanks again
 
Rob Kirkham
 

Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] erie 82582 Branchline 40' AAR boxcar kit 6' door, delivery scheme
 


On May 3, 2014, at 10:54 PM, Robert <rdkirkham@...> wrote:

I am assembling this kit and running into questions not answered in the instructions.  I probably should have tried some of these kits 10 years ago when they were commonly discussed on this list, but . . . this is my first Branchline kit.   So questions:
1) is this a foobie?
 
No.  Bill Schnieder would be offended at the suggestion.

 2) should the running board be black or silver?
 
From what’s visible in the builder’s photos, it appears to have been mineral red except at the extreme end, which were black like the car ends.

3) what is proper ladder choice for the car sides – the wider or narrower?
 
8 rung ladders.

4) there nothing in the kit to create the running board lateral supports – I supply those myself?
 
Yes.
 
I’m sending you off-list 3/4 left and B end builder’s photos.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: erie 82582 Branchline 40' AAR boxcar kit 6' door, delivery scheme

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks for these references Schuyler. This and the photos passed on by Richard will help bring the model together.   As I model 1946, the small diamond on this model will be fine I expect.
 
Rob Kirkham
 

Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: erie 82582 Branchline 40' AAR boxcar kit 6' door, delivery scheme
 


Nuts, I should have added that there is a diagram book in the Erie/EL/DL&W section that can define the group of cars you’re dealing with.

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 12:31 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: erie 82582 Branchline 40' AAR boxcar kit 6' door, delivery scheme

 

 

Thanks Clark,

 

Its confusing as the kit contains a narrow set of black ladders (i.e. for ends) and two sets of brown ladders – narrow and wide - (for the sides).  Also, the wide ladders are 7 rung instead of 8, so using wide would result in rungs on the side ladders not lining up with those on the end ladders.   I couldn’t find a prototype photo of this series.

 

Rob

 

Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 6:12 AM

To: STMFC@...

Subject: [STMFC] Re: erie 82582 Branchline 40' AAR boxcar kit 6' door, delivery scheme

 




We’ve always used the wider ladders on the sides and the narrower ones on the ends.

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Decal problems - Kodak Photo-Flo

jon miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 5/4/2014 6:09 PM, johnsykesiii@... wrote:
My current bottle is getting low, so I was just thinking that it is time to find another one (the current one has lasted me almost 10 years - it really goes a long way!).

    Eight to twelve dollars for 16oz.  Shipping costs as much as the product so if you can get it locally it would be better.

-- 

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Decal problems - Kodak Photo-Flo

John Sykes III
 

I swear by Photo-Flo also.  My current bottle is getting low, so I was just thinking that it is time to find another one (the current one has lasted me almost 10 years - it really goes a long way!).


-- John


Re: Decal problems - Kodak Photo-Flo

Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
 

At 04:34 PM 5/4/2014, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
If it is still available, Kodak's "Photo-flo" is better than detergent for breaking surface tension. One loaded brushful is enough to relax the tension on a saucerful of distilled water. And looking at my little bottle, about 1.5" diameter and 3.25" high
My "go-to" surfacent... Same tiny bottle... same 2-decade age!

Don't know if the recipe has changed... but the current product available (Kodak Photo-Flo 200) is:
60-70% Water
25-30% Propylene glycol
5-10% p-tert-octylphenoxy polyethoxyethyl alcohol

Yum!


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------


Re: Decal problems

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Age and type of decal paper can affect how well I can get ALPS off the paper. My best experience has been with new paper from Tango Papa (Tom Prestia), who makes his own.  If I try to print on his paper if I've had it longer than 2-3 years, I start to run into problems. But fresh, I've had success applying an 8" diameter decal to painted luan plywood (case side) which came out looking painted on.

If decal was printed on fresh paper and overcoated, then age of a few years didn't matter much. So my older kits with ALPS made decals are still fine.

I refer you to ALPs list on yahoogroups for details.

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On May 4, 2014, at 3:41 PM, Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:

 

Denny,
I had a similar experience some years ago. Wound up stripping some of the paint and redecaling.
The ink wouldn't soften with setting solution 
Contact me off list for the gory details.
Pierre Oliver


On May 4, 2014, at 3:22 PM, Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...> wrote:

 

Not so long ago, Bill Darnaby reported application problems with some custom decals (Alps) that he was attempting to apply, namely that they simply would not settle or draw down, no matter what.  Well, I think that I have similar problem, mine with some otherwise-stunning  custom decals from another maker who also produces them on an Alps printer.  I suspect that both may be using the same decal papers.


I have posed this question to the supplier, but have not yet received a reply.

My problems: 

1) The decals will simply will not separate nor slide without a lot of physical pushing and shoving (soft brush, tooth pick), even with soaking to the extent that the relatively thick paper backing completely delaminates (often at the very moment that one is attempting to transfer the decal). 

2) Instead of floating or sliding, the decal clings to the paper, commonly wrapping itself or twisting around the paper edge,  twisting over often onto the backside, sometimes upside down. Undoing this commonly results in collateral damage, losing either parts of the decal, or the ink chipping off!

3) The decals will simply not settle down over rivets, etc., despite a desperation application of Walthers SolvaSet. 

3) I have already used up the principal parts of two decal sets on one incompleted model in probably a net 6 hours of intermittent  effort, and I have just made an executive decision  scrape a bunch off and repaint before I have more damage.  I never, ever have had such difficulty in decal application.  Whew!  Unless otherwise solved in the meantime, I will try to cobble together some replacements from Microscale sets. 

Do my experiences ring any bells in the minds of other users?  Would the crippling and overwhelming surface tension characteristics demonstrated by thes! e decals be ameliorated by using water with a drop of detergent (diluted big time, of course), or would the detergent interfere with decal adhesion, and or cause some discoloration or haziness?

Denny
 
Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento





Re: Decal problems

Schuyler Larrabee
 

If it is still available, Kodak’s “Photo-flo” is better than detergent for breaking surface tension.  One loaded brushful is enough to relax the tension on a saucerful of distilled water.  And looking at my little bottle, about 1.5” diameter and 3.25” high ( the  fl. oz. amount is washed away) I think I’ll go see if I can get another couple of bottles, though this on has lasted me for several decades.  Retirement and more intensive modeling looms, you see . . .

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Pierre Oliver
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 3:41 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Decal problems

 

 

Denny,

I had a similar experience some years ago. Wound up stripping some of the paint and redecaling.

The ink wouldn't soften with setting solution 

Contact me off list for the gory details.

Pierre Oliver


On May 4, 2014, at 3:22 PM, Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...> wrote:

 

Not so long ago, Bill Darnaby reported application problems with some custom decals (Alps) that he was attempting to apply, namely that they simply would not settle or draw down, no matter what.  Well, I think that I have similar problem, mine with some otherwise-stunning  custom decals from another maker who also produces them on an Alps printer.  I suspect that both may be using the same decal papers.

 

I have posed this question to the supplier, but have not yet received a reply.

 

My problems: 

 

1) The decals will simply will not separate nor slide without a lot of physical pushing and shoving (soft brush, tooth pick), even with soaking to the extent that the relatively thick paper backing completely delaminates (often at the very moment that one is attempting to transfer the decal). 

 

2) Instead of floating or sliding, the decal clings to the paper, commonly wrapping itself or twisting around the paper edge,  twisting over often onto the backside, sometimes upside down. Undoing this commonly results in collateral damage, losing either parts of the decal, or the ink chipping off!

 

3) The decals will simply not settle down over rivets, etc., despite a desperation application of Walthers SolvaSet. 

 

3) I have already used up the principal parts of two decal sets on one incompleted model in probably a net 6 hours of intermittent  effort, and I have just made an executive decision  scrape a bunch off and repaint before I have more damage.  I never, ever have had such difficulty in decal application.  Whew!  Unless otherwise solved in the meantime, I will try to cobble together some replacements from Microscale sets. 

 

Do my experiences ring any bells in the minds of other users?  Would the crippling and overwhelming surface tension characteristics demonstrated by these decals be ameliorated by using water with a drop of detergent (diluted big time, of course), or would the detergent interfere with decal adhesion, and or cause some discoloration or haziness?

 

Denny

 

Denny S. Anspach MD

Sacramento

 

 

 

 


Re: Scientific nomenclature

Tim O'Connor
 


That's correct. Carmen cut levers were exceptionally high spirited and flirtatious.


Andy, those are �Carmer� levers, not �carmen� levers.  Carmer was a specific design and a particular manufacturer.
 
Schuyler
 
From: STMFC@... [ mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Andrew Miller

Clark,

I believe it is called a "cut lever". I always hear of one variety common
on the PRR in the 30s as a "Carmen cut lever".

Regards,

Andy Miller

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