Date   

Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

Douglas Harding
 

Ah David now you are understanding the frustration that sometimes comes with prototype modeling. The models available do not match the chosen era.

Doug Harding from my phone


From: David Bott dbott@... [STMFC]
Sent: ‎5/‎23/‎2014 9:18 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Are conductor's lists of interest?

 

Good to hear the value is not just in my eyes. I have a monopod and 35mm dSLR with remote trigger for my next visit to the national archive ICC valuation stacks. I imaged nearly all the Atlantic & Yadkin annual reports back in 2000 with a Coolpix 950 handheld and quality/lighting created problems then. I don't have server space for large, archival images, so I thought transcription would make the info more accessible. I appreciate transcription error; the handwritten pencil is not always easy to decipher! It's always a trade off, sigh.

Thanks for feedback. I'll let you all know when I have something to share.

An example of what I found: average carloads were lower than I realized: 7-15 tons. A regular meat reefer was interchanged between Southern and A&Y and it was always Kingan. I got happy seeing recent Kingan reefer four-pack , only to realize they were postwar paint scheme and most built in late 30's early 40's--too new.

Dave


[The entire original message is not included.]


Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

asychis@...
 

David,
 
In my opinion conductor lists are the crown jewels of prototypical operations and source of historic information.  Knowing what cars were where, regardless of the railroad or line, is of great value.  I just wish your holdings were form the MoPac in Southern Illinois in the 1950s!  :^) 
 
Jerry Michels


Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Good to hear the value is not just in my eyes. I have a monopod and 35mm dSLR with remote trigger for my next visit to the national archive ICC valuation stacks. I imaged nearly all the Atlantic & Yadkin annual reports back in 2000 with a Coolpix 950 handheld and quality/lighting created problems then. I don't have server space for large, archival images, so I thought transcription would make the info more accessible. I appreciate transcription error; the handwritten pencil is not always easy to decipher! It's always a trade off, sigh.

Thanks for feedback. I'll let you all know when I have something to share.

An example of what I found: average carloads were lower than I realized: 7-15 tons. A regular meat reefer was interchanged between Southern and A&Y and it was always Kingan. I got happy seeing recent Kingan reefer four-pack , only to realize they were postwar paint scheme and most built in late 30's early 40's--too new.

Dave


Re: Impending Cudahy meat reefers.

Jack Mullen
 

Thanks, Tony. I should have thought of Rath and Wilson (and maybe others) as earlier examples of the return of logos to meat reefers. Late at night and all that... - - Jack Mullen


Re: typical ART wood reefers

 

Ed – No plans but I had a comprehensive article on the cars in the March 1992 issue of RMJ. – Al Westerfield
 

Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] typical ART wood reefers
 
 

Ed Mines wrote:

 
Have plans for these cars ever appeared in print? From side photos these cars look to be similar to Mainline/

Silver Streak kits.

How about photos of their roofs?

I think these cars would be a good subject for an upcoming RPC.

 
     Ed, there is a major and very complete book about ART, which is in editorial work at Signature Press. We hope to get it out later this year.
 
Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
 




Re: General American tank car parts from Tangent Scale Models

Tangent Scale Models
 

Michael,

You can order a new stirrup step right here.  And its shape and size is correct for the GA tankcar.  Slide in a new part and you are ready to roll.


David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models

 






Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

Charles Etheredge
 

David,  Tony is correct.   I have asked a lot of folks and searched around for several years without success for conductor's books for TNO (SP in Texas) conductors' books.  I model the late forties era and a book or two would certainly fill a great void.

 

Charles Etheredge

Austin, Texas


Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

O Fenton Wells
 

David, I think they are important and I believe the Southern Railway Historical Assoc would think so as well.  Please consider the SRHA when you get ready to donate.


On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:28 PM, David Bott dbott@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

I have a cache of conductor train books from the Southern Railway Winston Salem Division spanning 1923-1934.  I have waffled between scanning and translating the contents into Excel spreadsheets. One reason I joined this list is to learn more about cars of this era in order to model one of these trains. These lists cover specific crew, locomotive, cars by road, cargo (type, tons, and destination city), cab, and travel time.

I just wonder how common such info is among historians, and is the info worth the effort to convert to an electronic format? If so, which is more useful?

At some point, I'll donate to the proper archive. For now, they are just fun to peruse and inspire my modeling. Would anyone here care for this info?

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone




--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

Douglas Harding
 

By all means, share. Extremely valuable and rare information. Having created spreadsheets of such handwritten records I agree that Eric has some good points. If possible scan the original. Photography works, especially if you use a tripod and remote release, to remove possibly camera shake and get consistent focus. Use clips to hold pages flat.

Doug Harding from my phone


From: 'Eric Neubauer' eaneubauer@... [STMFC]
Sent: ‎5/‎23/‎2014 6:15 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Are conductor's lists of interest?

 

I would disagree with Tony on only one point. Rather than transcribing them, I would first make a digital copy for the following reasons:
 
1. Transcription is time consuming and tedious.
2. It is subject to transcription errors.
3. It is subject to interpretation errors especially when handwritten.
 
There are many times that I have had to refer back to original documents because I suspected either of the last two had happened. If you don't have the documents on hand, it can be a real hassle.
 
The advantage of transcription is that it can provide a more legible, concise, and manipulable form, but in my opinion it is not as good as a copy of the original. Having both is ideal.
 
Copies of the original can be done by scanning or photographing. The latter can even be done with a hand held digital camera though the results are not always great. Usually you need good light to reduce the aperture and increase the depth of field. Exposure times may need to be 1/25th of a second which requires a steady hand. At least on my camera an ISO greater than 400 is not advisable. Photography is much easier on the original and quicker than scanning. Scanning produces better images than photography. A color image is best even if the original is black and white, and high quality JPEG is a good choice for file type. TIFFs are better in quality, but the difference is usually not worth the cost of handling the much larger files.
 
Eric N.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Are conductor's lists of interest?

 

David Bott  wrote:

 
I have a cache of conductor train books from the Southern Railway Winston Salem Division spanning 1923-1934.  I have waffled between scanning and translating the contents into Excel spreadsheets. One reason I joined this list is to learn more about cars of this era in order to model one of these trains. These lists cover specific crew, locomotive, cars by road, cargo (type, tons, and destination city), cab, and travel time.

I just wonder how common such info is among historians, and is the info worth the effort to convert to an electronic format? If so, which is more useful?

At some point, I'll donate to the proper archive. For now, they are just fun to peruse and inspire my modeling. Would anyone here care for this info?

     For anyone trying to understand patterns of freight car movement, these books are priceless. Please do transcribe them if you can find the time and energy. There are a number of people deeply interested. 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Posted by: "Eric Neubauer"
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (5)

[The entire original message is not included.]


Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

I would disagree with Tony on only one point. Rather than transcribing them, I would first make a digital copy for the following reasons:
 
1. Transcription is time consuming and tedious.
2. It is subject to transcription errors.
3. It is subject to interpretation errors especially when handwritten.
 
There are many times that I have had to refer back to original documents because I suspected either of the last two had happened. If you don't have the documents on hand, it can be a real hassle.
 
The advantage of transcription is that it can provide a more legible, concise, and manipulable form, but in my opinion it is not as good as a copy of the original. Having both is ideal.
 
Copies of the original can be done by scanning or photographing. The latter can even be done with a hand held digital camera though the results are not always great. Usually you need good light to reduce the aperture and increase the depth of field. Exposure times may need to be 1/25th of a second which requires a steady hand. At least on my camera an ISO greater than 400 is not advisable. Photography is much easier on the original and quicker than scanning. Scanning produces better images than photography. A color image is best even if the original is black and white, and high quality JPEG is a good choice for file type. TIFFs are better in quality, but the difference is usually not worth the cost of handling the much larger files.
 
Eric N.
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Are conductor's lists of interest?

 

David Bott  wrote:

 
I have a cache of conductor train books from the Southern Railway Winston Salem Division spanning 1923-1934.  I have waffled between scanning and translating the contents into Excel spreadsheets. One reason I joined this list is to learn more about cars of this era in order to model one of these trains. These lists cover specific crew, locomotive, cars by road, cargo (type, tons, and destination city), cab, and travel time.

I just wonder how common such info is among historians, and is the info worth the effort to convert to an electronic format? If so, which is more useful?

At some point, I'll donate to the proper archive. For now, they are just fun to peruse and inspire my modeling. Would anyone here care for this info?

     For anyone trying to understand patterns of freight car movement, these books are priceless. Please do transcribe them if you can find the time and energy. There are a number of people deeply interested. 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Impending Cudahy meat reefers.

Guy Wilber
 

Tony Thompson:

"By far the most vivid exception, which I cannot begin to explain, was Chateau Martin, which clearly advertised products for years."

The Chateau Martin cars were classed as Type "T" (tank), thus exempt from the advertising prohibition along with Type "L" cars.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: Impending Cudahy meat reefers.

Tony Thompson
 

 jack mullen wrote:

Dennis and group, I think the salient point is that the ruling banned advertisements of " any shipper, consignee or product". ART, MDT, and other car lines were neither shipper nor consignee so their logos wouldn't be subject to the rule, regardless of whether the logos could be considered advertisements. IIRC, the small red SWIFT logo appeared on meat reefers in 1948 and is the first reappearance of a meat packer's logo that I can think of. 


    Rath started using their Indian head logo in the mid-1940s, and other packers increased the size of their company name on cars in that period also. Evidently use of a company name or a standard logo was not in itself considered an advertisement. You will note that, unlike the billboard era, PRODUCTS were not identified on cars in the period of this list. By far the most vivid exception, which I cannot begin to explain, was Chateau Martin, which clearly advertised products for years.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Impending Cudahy meat reefers.

Jack Mullen
 

Dennis and group, I think the salient point is that the ruling banned advertisements of " any shipper, consignee or product". ART, MDT, and other car lines were neither shipper nor consignee so their logos wouldn't be subject to the rule, regardless of whether the logos could be considered advertisements. IIRC, the small red SWIFT logo appeared on meat reefers in 1948 and is the first reappearance of a meat packer's logo that I can think of. - - Jack Mullen


Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

Tony Thompson
 

David Bott  wrote:

 
I have a cache of conductor train books from the Southern Railway Winston Salem Division spanning 1923-1934.  I have waffled between scanning and translating the contents into Excel spreadsheets. One reason I joined this list is to learn more about cars of this era in order to model one of these trains. These lists cover specific crew, locomotive, cars by road, cargo (type, tons, and destination city), cab, and travel time.

I just wonder how common such info is among historians, and is the info worth the effort to convert to an electronic format? If so, which is more useful?

At some point, I'll donate to the proper archive. For now, they are just fun to peruse and inspire my modeling. Would anyone here care for this info?

     For anyone trying to understand patterns of freight car movement, these books are priceless. Please do transcribe them if you can find the time and energy. There are a number of people deeply interested. 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: General American tank car parts from Tangent Scale Models

Tony Thompson
 

Tom Madden wrote:

I use 0.019" dia brass wire and .020" ID stainless steel hypodermic tubing from Small Parts, part #h0028004t316who. This direct link might work:

http://www.amazonsupply.com/dp/B000FN5QME?appAction=1230730509&appActionToken=vn8mvwNC3yQfCgKdImGJE5joJQAj3D&resourceUrl=%2Fdp%2FB000FN5QME

Two of the Precision Scale tank car handrail posts in each set have extra wide barrels. The intent is to make the handrail splices within those barrels, but the prototype used very visible pipe couplings. I've uploaded two photos to Doug Harding's Tangent tank car folder. One shows a prototype handrail pipe coupling, the other a model using a short length of .020" ID hypodermic tubing. I use CA for the bonds, and it's a really durable and rigid joint. The problem with shrink tubing is it can thicken as it shrinks, while the SS tubing's 0.025" OD (0.0025" wall - less than 1/4" in HO) leaves it, if not invisible, certainly unobtrusive.


      I agree with Tom and have used stainless hypodermic tubing since I first saw its use in a Ted Culotta article. I wrote about that usage on tank car models in a blog post awhile back, so if you're interested you can read it at:


Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: General American tank car parts from Tangent Scale Models

Tom Madden
 

I see Small Parts specs that tubing at 0.028" OD with a 0.004" wall. The length I got from them measures 0.025" OD. Unobtrusive in either case.


Tom Madden


Re: General American tank car parts from Tangent Scale Models

Tom Madden
 

Bill wrote:

> What would really be great for covering the various handrail joints IMO would be some very small low

> temperature shrink tubing.


I use 0.019" dia brass wire and .020" ID stainless steel hypodermic tubing from Small Parts, part #h0028004t316who. This direct link might work:

http://www.amazonsupply.com/dp/B000FN5QME?appAction=1230730509&appActionToken=vn8mvwNC3yQfCgKdImGJE5joJQAj3D&resourceUrl=%2Fdp%2FB000FN5QME


Two of the Precision Scale tank car handrail posts in each set have extra wide barrels. The intent is to make the handrail splices within those barrels, but the prototype used very visible pipe couplings. I've uploaded two photos to Doug Harding's Tangent tank car folder. One shows a prototype handrail pipe coupling, the other a model using a short length of .020" ID hypodermic tubing. I use CA for the bonds, and it's a really durable and rigid joint. The problem with shrink tubing is it can thicken as it shrinks, while the SS tubing's 0.025" OD (0.0025" wall - less than 1/4" in HO) leaves it, if not invisible, certainly unobtrusive.


Tom Madden


Re: Impending Cudahy meat reefers.

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 22, 2014, at 6:43 PM, 'Brian Carlson' prrk41361@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

There’s been a lot of discussion on this car. Here’s my question. I model 1957 and my supply of Cudahy photos is small. The Billboard era is long gone and even Doug Harding’s photo is too old  for certainty. Were there cars operating in this paint scheme with the 4 hinge doors in 1957?
Unfortunately, no, since it sounds like Don Valentine’s version of the Atlas model will be a good one.  Cudahy continued to operate a sizable fleet of 36’ wood sheathed meat reefers through the ‘50s, but by 1957 they were all cars built in the 1940s and numbered in the 5600 through 6400 series.  Some of them were actually built after WW II, still with wood side and end sheathing and outside wood roofs but such mod cons as AB brakes and, in some cases, National B-1 trucks.


Richard Hendrickson



Re: Impending Cudahy meat reefers.

Brian Carlson
 

There’s been a lot of discussion on this car. Here’s my question. I model 1957 and my supply of Cudahy photos is small. The Billboard era is long gone and even Doug Harding’s photo is too old  for certainty. Were there cars operating in this paint scheme with the 4 hinge doors in 1957?

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga, NY

 



Re: General American tank car parts from Tangent Scale Models

Richard Townsend
 

Some time ago I wanted to use some of Jon's steps on an Athearn tank car frame to make it closer to the prototype.  I emailed him and he quoted me a price, which I paid, and I got the steps.  I am considering replacing the steps on my Tangent tanks with Jon's brass ones since the plastic ones, as beautiful as they are, are the epitome of fragile.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

70841 - 70860 of 195508