Date   

Re: open car loads

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Would terra cotta water and sewage pipe be shipped in gondolas in the 30's-40's? I know that a terra cotta pipe kiln/factory existed on the line I model, and I know Seley composite hoppers brought in the clay from a pit further south on the line.  I have a bunch of F&C Southern Seley hopper kits for incoming, but don't know what cars hauled the finished product at this time.

I was hoping it might be boxcars due to the more fragile nature of terra cotta and a requisite need for packing materials. Boxcar loads are far easier to model!  Maybe they are stronger than that and could go in gons. Any thoughts or pics on carloads of terra cotta pipe in the 30's-40's?

Dave


On May 25, 2014, at 1:06 AM, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Bill Keene wrote:

Thanks for sharing how to make pipe loads. I will be doing a few of these for my presently empty gondolas. 

But I have a question… What would you recommend to represent a cast iron pipe with the belled end? These would be about 10-feet in length. 

      I know the kind of pipe you mean, and don't know a good easy way to model it. But the corresponding bell-end concrete pipe is made as a car load by DUHA, and sold in this country by JWD; you can see it at this link:


My experience with DUHA loads is excellent, and JWD offer good service.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: open car loads

Tony Thompson
 

Bill Keene wrote:

Thanks for sharing how to make pipe loads. I will be doing a few of these for my presently empty gondolas. 

But I have a question… What would you recommend to represent a cast iron pipe with the belled end? These would be about 10-feet in length. 

      I know the kind of pipe you mean, and don't know a good easy way to model it. But the corresponding bell-end concrete pipe is made as a car load by DUHA, and sold in this country by JWD; you can see it at this link:


My experience with DUHA loads is excellent, and JWD offer good service.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

A&Y Dave in MD
 

I scanned all 88 pages of first book, May 15-June 9, 1934 at 600dpi. The TIF files, one per page, are 96MB each. I got a png format version down to 10mb. I'll have to batch resize and convert to compressed format to be able to share, probably via jpg. You can see the pencil dents in the paper at the high res :-)

Let me know off list at dbott at vt.edu. if you wish to help transcribe a train's worth (1-2 pages).

I have some practice reading Mr. Snow's handwriting and abbreviations, so I can share some suggestions. I also have a Winston-Salem division seniority list from about that time that I can share so you get crew names right. I also have W-S division ETT's scanned to help with milepost and train number references.

We could tell quite the story when we're done!

Dave Bott


Off topic coupler post

 

I was so pleased to be able to contribute to this list that I didn't recognize that my last note was a bit off topic for this list. 

I have apparently funded another day in Bermuda for Mike...

Sorry guys. 

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio

Sent from my mobile

On May 25, 2014, at 12:36 AM, "Matt Goodman goodman312@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

If you buy the bulk kits, they are price competitive with Kadees (the last time I priced them, they were actually less expensive). 

They operate fantastically, but as both Clarks mentioned, can be fiddly in coupling. This is not a mechanical issue; if the couplers are aligned and at least one is open, they couple easier than Kadees - no excess speed is required to force the coupler jaws open like is sometime necessary with Kadees. You can push cars together at a snails pace and they will couple just fine - if you have good throttle control, the car being coupled too won't even move. It's fascinating to watch.  That alignment is the key; Kadees self center, so don't require any pre-coupling fiddling. 

As both Clarks have also said, uncoupling is far easier than Kadees, with some caveats (can't use under track magnets, the magnetic uncoupling "wand" can attract (or stick to) steel weighted cars).  

If they aren't scale, they are very, very close. The only part I know is  not to scale is the thickness of the coupler shank - these are thicker than Kadee shanks by about .012", but thinner than the prototype to allow them to be mounted in most HO coupler boxes. 

Assembly is more involved than Kadee, but not difficult. Frank has done a fantastic job making these die cast parts fit very well from piece to piece - tolerances are very consistent.  Check out Sergent Engineerings web site for assembly instructions. This will give you some for context and the pre assembly work and post assembly break in are discussed. 

I made some YouTube videos on these fantastic devices a couple years ago showing how they work, slack comparison to Kadee and parts and assembly. Google "sergent couplers, mgoodman312" to bring up a few (or go to YouTube and search mgoodman312 to find my channel, which has about five Sergent videos in a playlist). I still watch them occasionally for fun - easier to see than watching them in person!

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio

Sent from my mobile

On May 21, 2014, at 3:38 PM, "riverman_vt@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Hi fellows,

     I'm glad to see these Sargent couplers come up since there was little response to a question raised about them some months ago. How expensive are they and how well do they operate? Clark, you mentioned work that sounded like pre-installation work. Could you please expand upon that a bit. Lastly are they really scale and do they offer any real advantage over the Kadee #58's?

Thanks very much for any information you'd care to share.  Don Valentine

Yahoo! Groups
PrivacyUnsubscribeTer


Re: Wheelset and coupler choices.

 

If you buy the bulk kits, they are price competitive with Kadees (the last time I priced them, they were actually less expensive). 

They operate fantastically, but as both Clarks mentioned, can be fiddly in coupling. This is not a mechanical issue; if the couplers are aligned and at least one is open, they couple easier than Kadees - no excess speed is required to force the coupler jaws open like is sometime necessary with Kadees. You can push cars together at a snails pace and they will couple just fine - if you have good throttle control, the car being coupled too won't even move. It's fascinating to watch.  That alignment is the key; Kadees self center, so don't require any pre-coupling fiddling. 

As both Clarks have also said, uncoupling is far easier than Kadees, with some caveats (can't use under track magnets, the magnetic uncoupling "wand" can attract (or stick to) steel weighted cars).  

If they aren't scale, they are very, very close. The only part I know is  not to scale is the thickness of the coupler shank - these are thicker than Kadee shanks by about .012", but thinner than the prototype to allow them to be mounted in most HO coupler boxes. 

Assembly is more involved than Kadee, but not difficult. Frank has done a fantastic job making these die cast parts fit very well from piece to piece - tolerances are very consistent.  Check out Sergent Engineerings web site for assembly instructions. This will give you some for context and the pre assembly work and post assembly break in are discussed. 

I made some YouTube videos on these fantastic devices a couple years ago showing how they work, slack comparison to Kadee and parts and assembly. Google "sergent couplers, mgoodman312" to bring up a few (or go to YouTube and search mgoodman312 to find my channel, which has about five Sergent videos in a playlist). I still watch them occasionally for fun - easier to see than watching them in person!

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio

Sent from my mobile

On May 21, 2014, at 3:38 PM, "riverman_vt@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Hi fellows,

     I'm glad to see these Sargent couplers come up since there was little response to a question raised about them some months ago. How expensive are they and how well do they operate? Clark, you mentioned work that sounded like pre-installation work. Could you please expand upon that a bit. Lastly are they really scale and do they offer any real advantage over the Kadee #58's?

Thanks very much for any information you'd care to share.  Don Valentine

Yahoo! Groups
PrivacyUnsubscribeTer


Re: open car loads

Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hi Tony,

Thanks for sharing how to make pipe loads. I will be doing a few of these for my presently empty gondolas. 

But I have a question… What would you recommend to represent a cast iron pipe with the belled end? These would be about 10-feet in length. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On May 24, 2014, at 5:39 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I've posted another description of how I make open-car loads, this one a gondola pipe load. If you're interested, it's at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2014/05/open-car-loads-more-pipe-loads.html

and the post also contains a link to a prior post on the same topic; or you can use the search box at upper right of the blog page to locate other posts on this topic.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history



open car loads

Tony Thompson
 

I've posted another description of how I make open-car loads, this one a gondola pipe load. If you're interested, it's at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2014/05/open-car-loads-more-pipe-loads.html

and the post also contains a link to a prior post on the same topic; or you can use the search box at upper right of the blog page to locate other posts on this topic.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: typical ART wood reefers

proto48er
 

Ed - About 15 years ago, I measured the only ART wood reefer I could find - the one at the National Museum of Transport in St Louis - and drew up "O" scale drawings for a Chooch resin model.  The kit was Ultrascale II kit #656. I looked all over south Texas (Rio Grande Valley) and all over the San Luis Valley in Colorado for another ART wood reefer, but only found steel cars out on farms, etc.

The drawings are not complete - I did not draw up the end of the car because I had a good full-on end photo of the prototype.  I did draw the side view, underframe views, and roof view.  PM me a snail-mail address, and I will send copies.

I need to find the ink drawings and send them to the authors of the ART book.  I recall that the plans in the Car Builder's Cyclopedia were by ACF and were for a car that was never built.

There were, as I recall, two major groupings of wood ART cars still in operation in the 1940's.  The one at St Louis was the later-built version.  An earlier version was very similar, but slightly smaller.

Does anyone out there in STMFC land know where another wood ART reefer might be hiding?

A.T. Kott


Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

Allen Rueter
 

Dave,
    It would be very interesting. If you want some help transcribing , I'm sure numerous people would volunteer, including
my self . Many hands will make quick work.  Scan a few pages (1934) and send them my way.

As other have mentioned, you will find short hand, here are some I found in Richard Hendrickson's Yard Book.
ATSF AT A
CBQ Q
 PRR PA
DRGW RG
SFRD RD
Alton C&A CA
and dropping the trailing X
and blank for initials, then car number will be Southern in your case

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


From: "David Bott dbott@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:28 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Are conductor's lists of interest?

 
I have a cache of conductor train books from the Southern Railway Winston Salem Division spanning 1923-1934.  I have waffled between scanning and translating the contents into Excel spreadsheets. One reason I joined this list is to learn more about cars of this era in order to model one of these trains. These lists cover specific crew, locomotive, cars by road, cargo (type, tons, and destination city), cab, and travel time.

I just wonder how common such info is among historians, and is the info worth the effort to convert to an electronic format? If so, which is more useful?

At some point, I'll donate to the proper archive. For now, they are just fun to peruse and inspire my modeling. Would anyone here care for this info?

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone



Re: typical ART wood reefers

ed_mines
 

Thanks.

 

Ed Mines


Chateau Martin Tank Cars

Guy Wilber
 

Jim wrote:
 
"The last BMT car (#153) first appeared in the ORER dated April 1959
while the first XT car (#154) first appeared in the July 1961 ORER.
Did something happen during that interval requiring a change in the
AAR class designation."
 
 
Jim,
 
It would appear that  the company was simply choosing to transition from passenger to freight service.  There was no change in either of the listed AAR Classes or designations during that 1959-61 period. 
 
Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada  


Re: Impending Cudahy meat reefers

Tony Thompson
 

Jim Lancaster wrote:

Additional information: According to my Chateau Martin roster at
http://coastdaylight.com/chatmart/cmwx_roster_3.html,
CMWX 101-105 were class TL (5 cars), 106-153 were class BMT (34 cars)  and 154-1009 were class XT (23 cars).

The last BMT car (#153) first appeared in the ORER dated April 1959  while the first XT car (#154) first appeared in the July 1961 ORER.  Did something happen during that interval requiring a change in the AAR class designation.

     I have an ORER issue for July 1962, and the BMT class is still listed, so it did not go away (of course, post-1960 matters vanish into the future haze for this list). The XT classification was in existence long before 1961. My own main interest is my modeling year of 1953, for which there were no XT cars in the CMWX roster.
     I might speculate that the change was simply a management decision, similar to what SP did, after years of classing all their ballast-capable cars as MWB; in 1956, they changed both new and old cars of that kind to the AAR class HK. Both classifications remained in force, so it appears to have just been a choice.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Impending Cudahy meat reefers

Jim Lancaster
 

4.2. Re: Impending Cudahy meat reefers.
Posted by: "Tony Thompson" tony@... sigpress
Date: Fri May 23, 2014 9:55 am ((PDT))

Guy Wilber wrote:

Tony Thompson:
"By far the most vivid exception, which I cannot begin to explain, was Chateau Martin, which clearly advertised products for years."
The Chateau Martin cars were classed as Type "T" (tank), thus exempt from the advertising prohibition along with Type "L" cars.
Good point, although actually, they were almost all AAR class BMT (a passenger classification), but as you say, they were essentially tank cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Additional information: According to my Chateau Martin roster at
http://coastdaylight.com/chatmart/cmwx_roster_3.html,
CMWX 101-105 were class TL (5 cars), 106-153 were class BMT (34 cars) and 154-1009 were class XT (23 cars).

The last BMT car (#153) first appeared in the ORER dated April 1959 while the first XT car (#154) first appeared in the July 1961 ORER. Did something happen during that interval requiring a change in the AAR class designation.

Jim Lancaster


Commercial Post - Q Connection Memorial Day Weekend Sale

Dave Lotz
 

Hi All,

 

In honor of all the brave men & women who have served, and are serving our country, Q Connection is having a Memorial Day Weekend Sale on all of our custom-painted Bowser, HO scale CB&Q HC-1 70-ton, 2-bay covered hopper kits.  This includes pre-orders on the soon-to-be-arriving 1958 HC-1B version with a full-color Burlington Route herald on a separately mounted placard as well as our ready-to-ship 1943 HC-1 version with Kadee’s National Type-B trucks.  All kits come with metal wheelsets, Kadee #58 couplers and additional weights.

 

Save $1.00 on each car that your order between now and midnight Monday, May 26th.  Go to our web site: www.QConnection.biz for details and to order.  For those of you who do not want to use PayPal, you may email us directly with your order to arrange for check, money order or credit card payment.

 

Thank you for your time and have a safe weekend!

 

Dave Lotz

Q Connection

dave@...

 

 


FOR SALE

Rio Grande Ltd <rgmodels@...>
 

I have the following Westerfield kits for sale.  All for $100.  Contact me off line at
eabracher@...  can take Pay Pal

#1800  R-30-1 reefer  PFE express
#5301  S-40-5 stock car original SP
#3801 USRA /DS box car ATSF
#3401  PSC ore car original GN
#4901  R-30-6 reefer PFE
#3701  le-X reefer ice service

eric bracher


Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

asychis@...
 

Agreed David.  Railroad archeology is a a real challenge at times. I do a similar thing, creating as many Excel columns as necessary to hold all the data that it is possible to glean from a document, and enter copious notes.
 
Jerry Michels  


Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

asychis@...
 

Jerry,
Lists in pencil and poor handwriting makes the historical research
effort a real exercise in cryptology seem simple.
Tom VanWormer
Working Colorado Midland Ledger Books from the 1890s
 
Agreed Tom.   I have transcribed a lot of timebooks, and it can be a chore, but here is also some pride taken when you finally "get it" and begin to figure out the person's handwriting quirks.  Timebooks are sort of easy in that a lot of entries are duplicates, so you get to see a lot of examples of, say, how the person made their "5s."
 
Jerry


Re: Sunshine

Craig Zeni
 

On May 24, 2014, at 7:20 AM, STMFC@... wrote:

There is 1 message in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Sunshine Response to Request for Replacement of Wrong Parts in
From: John F. Cizmar


Message
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: Sunshine Response to Request for Replacement of Wrong Parts in
Posted by: "John F. Cizmar" jfcizmar1966@... jfcizmar1966
Date: Fri May 23, 2014 5:30 pm ((PDT))

Is Sunshine still accepting and shipping orders?
Decals, yes. Kits - well I've had a 0% fill rate on my last two attempts where I'd ordered about ten kits and provided alternates for many of them.

Sadly I think that it is, for all intents and purposes, over.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Re: rivet patterns on the left & right side panel sections on CGW 1923 steel ARA boxcar

Benjamin Scanlon
 

This thread seems to have got mixed up with one about transcriptions. 

 

Hoping the mods may be able to untangle so it's about CGW 1923 ARA steel boxcars again.

 

Cheers

 

Ben Scanlon


Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

Dave Nelson
 

WRT transcription:  in my own experience of transcribing train reports I have used Excel… rows for each entry, columns for the different data.  I have found it is very important to first transcribe what is written on the page and only afterwards to add additional columns to add my own interpretation of what was meant.  So if the conductor wrote UTL I have a column for his car initials and it it is UTL.  Next to it will be my own column of UTLX.  Same for lading and any reference to pickup or destination city.

 

The reason for doing that is there is always written data that is hard to make out... it’s easy to guess wrong so don’t rush it.  Recording it AS IS lets you skip the hard part of figuring it out until such time you’ve seen a whole lot of his hand writing.  Perhaps his capital Q looks like a 2 – that was proper cursive back in the day – or perhaps he always uses shorthand for one road that you don’t initially recognize… or the most common: Some obscure private road initials that are not in your ORER but are darn similar to ones that are. Let it all wait until the nasty part of transcription is over and you can look at the larger set of data in the spreadsheet.

 

Letting it all wait for later gives you the opportunity to ask around… to compare various letters on several pages, etc. etc.  When you are sure what he meant then it all goes down in the column NEXT to the original transcriptions.  If you sort the rows you can fill those columns with ease.  This also lets you find and change stuff later on it if becomes clear you goofed.  And when you share your work it’s easy for others to see your interpretation of what you saw on the page.

 

IOW, think like an archeologist: First collect.  When that is done, then carefully study and draw your conclusions.

 

Also… don’t concatenate stuff and use individual columns for different data.  Car initials and car numbers are two different things each belonging it its own column. Corporate name is different data from car initial (e.g., Union Pacific and the car initials OSL are two different pieces of information).  Keeping things in their own columns makes it easy it both easy to sort and for others to make their own choices of what to keep.

 

Dave Nelson

 

 

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