Date   

FOR SALE

Rio Grande Ltd <rgmodels@...>
 

I have the following Westerfield kits for sale.  All for $100.  Contact me off line at
eabracher@...  can take Pay Pal

#1800  R-30-1 reefer  PFE express
#5301  S-40-5 stock car original SP
#3801 USRA /DS box car ATSF
#3401  PSC ore car original GN
#4901  R-30-6 reefer PFE
#3701  le-X reefer ice service

eric bracher


Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

asychis@...
 

Agreed David.  Railroad archeology is a a real challenge at times. I do a similar thing, creating as many Excel columns as necessary to hold all the data that it is possible to glean from a document, and enter copious notes.
 
Jerry Michels  


Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

asychis@...
 

Jerry,
Lists in pencil and poor handwriting makes the historical research
effort a real exercise in cryptology seem simple.
Tom VanWormer
Working Colorado Midland Ledger Books from the 1890s
 
Agreed Tom.   I have transcribed a lot of timebooks, and it can be a chore, but here is also some pride taken when you finally "get it" and begin to figure out the person's handwriting quirks.  Timebooks are sort of easy in that a lot of entries are duplicates, so you get to see a lot of examples of, say, how the person made their "5s."
 
Jerry


Re: Sunshine

Craig Zeni
 

On May 24, 2014, at 7:20 AM, STMFC@... wrote:

There is 1 message in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1a. Re: Sunshine Response to Request for Replacement of Wrong Parts in
From: John F. Cizmar


Message
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: Sunshine Response to Request for Replacement of Wrong Parts in
Posted by: "John F. Cizmar" jfcizmar1966@... jfcizmar1966
Date: Fri May 23, 2014 5:30 pm ((PDT))

Is Sunshine still accepting and shipping orders?
Decals, yes. Kits - well I've had a 0% fill rate on my last two attempts where I'd ordered about ten kits and provided alternates for many of them.

Sadly I think that it is, for all intents and purposes, over.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Re: rivet patterns on the left & right side panel sections on CGW 1923 steel ARA boxcar

Benjamin Scanlon
 

This thread seems to have got mixed up with one about transcriptions. 

 

Hoping the mods may be able to untangle so it's about CGW 1923 ARA steel boxcars again.

 

Cheers

 

Ben Scanlon


Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

Dave Nelson
 

WRT transcription:  in my own experience of transcribing train reports I have used Excel… rows for each entry, columns for the different data.  I have found it is very important to first transcribe what is written on the page and only afterwards to add additional columns to add my own interpretation of what was meant.  So if the conductor wrote UTL I have a column for his car initials and it it is UTL.  Next to it will be my own column of UTLX.  Same for lading and any reference to pickup or destination city.

 

The reason for doing that is there is always written data that is hard to make out... it’s easy to guess wrong so don’t rush it.  Recording it AS IS lets you skip the hard part of figuring it out until such time you’ve seen a whole lot of his hand writing.  Perhaps his capital Q looks like a 2 – that was proper cursive back in the day – or perhaps he always uses shorthand for one road that you don’t initially recognize… or the most common: Some obscure private road initials that are not in your ORER but are darn similar to ones that are. Let it all wait until the nasty part of transcription is over and you can look at the larger set of data in the spreadsheet.

 

Letting it all wait for later gives you the opportunity to ask around… to compare various letters on several pages, etc. etc.  When you are sure what he meant then it all goes down in the column NEXT to the original transcriptions.  If you sort the rows you can fill those columns with ease.  This also lets you find and change stuff later on it if becomes clear you goofed.  And when you share your work it’s easy for others to see your interpretation of what you saw on the page.

 

IOW, think like an archeologist: First collect.  When that is done, then carefully study and draw your conclusions.

 

Also… don’t concatenate stuff and use individual columns for different data.  Car initials and car numbers are two different things each belonging it its own column. Corporate name is different data from car initial (e.g., Union Pacific and the car initials OSL are two different pieces of information).  Keeping things in their own columns makes it easy it both easy to sort and for others to make their own choices of what to keep.

 

Dave Nelson

 

 


Example train book sheet

A&Y Dave in MD
 

I used my iPad, but don't like the lighting much, or trying to focus! Getting out copy stand and camera this weekend! Dave


----------


Re: Sunshine Response to Request for Replacement of Wrong Parts in Three Kits

Bill Welch
 

Nelson, contact me at fgexbill(at)tampabay.rr.com

Substitute @ for (at) of course

Bill Welch


Re: Sunshine Response to Request for Replacement of Wrong Parts in Three Kits

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

Bill,

 

The three ‘proper’ and the three ‘defectives’ are trimmed and sanded, but unbuilt. I considered the possibility of casting the needed sides and roofs, but the expense of buying the casting supplies put me off. The local MRC has casting supplies that I may be able to leverage; I haven’t inquired yet. Please put me in touch with the “Resin Casting Calvery” so we can explore the options.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 4:24 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine Response to Request for Replacement of Wrong Parts in Three Kits

 

 

Nelson, I hear your disappointment and frustration. When Martin died last year, the manufacturing capability of Sunshine died with him. Any kits Sunshine was able to sell after his death came from what was on hand. It sound like the kits you need replacement parts for are the Wartime Built BRE cars, the patterns for which I did several years ago. If you still have an unbuilt kit, the "Resin Casting Calvary" may be able to help you. If not, perhaps someone on this list has an unbuilt kit they would be willing to loan you to be copied.

 

Bill Welch

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3950/7549 - Release Date: 05/23/14


Re: Sunshine Response to Request for Replacement of Wrong Parts in Three Kits

 

Nelson – You need to realize that even if the kit had an unlimited guarantee, at this stage of the business only the dregs of castings are in stock and most kits are out of production with no current hope of reruns.  Without Marin’s knowledge and expertise the chances of even finding the parts are miniscule.  - Al Westerfield
 

Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 12:25 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Sunshine Response to Request for Replacement of Wrong Parts in Three Kits
 
 

Letter to Sunshine

 

Kits 34.17 and 34.20 should have been delivered with tongue and groove sides for all six cars. I received three sets of steel riveted sides and three sets of tongue and groove sides. Two of six roofs are incorrect, since two roofs have block type hatch rests on the roof casting, while the other roofs use etched metal angles as hatch rests.

 

BRE has no cars that match the steel sides supplied. The first BRE steel side reefer was built in 1937, and it had tabbed side sills. The next steel side series was built in 1949-50, and these reefers were 44 feet long. The steel sides supplied are 40 ft. long, and they do not match either of these cars, so I cannot build a prototypical car with the castings you supplied. The 40 foot steel riveted sides supplied in error have the door hinges and tack boards molded on the sides. It is possible that these sides are for kit 34.25 or 34.26, since those are the only steel side cars in the 34 series.

 

I notified you that running boards were missing from three of these kits. You responded that the running boards were included with the other castings. Since I received the wrong sides for three cars, and three running boards were missing, is it possible that the running board was not part of the steel side castings? Is it possible that the kit with steel sides used an etched Apex steel running board, so no wood running board casting was included with the other castings? In any event, I am missing three wood running boards, I have two incorrect roof castings, and I have the wrong sides for three of five 34.20 kits. I would appreciate it very much if you would send me three running boards, roof castings, and three pairs of tongue and groove sides for kit 34.20 so I can complete these models. If the proper tongue and groove replacement sides are not available, please confirm the prototype for the steel sides that I have, and supply the remaining parts necessary to complete the kit, including three running boards. If parts for the steel side kit are not available, please send three sets of the proper decals for the steel side kit. If none of these options is possible, I would like to choose three kits from your remaining inventory to replace the kits that I won’t be able to complete because the proper parts were not supplied.

 

Response from Sunshine

 

Dear Dr. Moyer

 

Enclosed please fine the Sunshine Guarantee. It has a thirty day limitation. There is nothing further we have to offer you.

 

Sincerely,

SM

 

 

Those of you with stashes of kits may be in for nasty surprises if you haven’t already examined them and submitted warranty claims. You would think Sunshine would attempt to correct their kit packing error, since that is NOT a warranty issue. I’m extremely disappointed with the response, and can assure you that I’ve purchased my last Sunshine kit as a result of their unacceptable business practices.

 

Nelson Moyer


Re: Sunshine Response to Request for Replacement of Wrong Parts in Three Kits

John F. Cizmar
 

Is Sunshine still accepting and shipping orders?
John F. Cizmar


On Friday, May 23, 2014 12:49 PM, "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]"


 
Nelson

Yeah, I've found a number of packing errors over the years -- wrong doors, ends, whatever.

The worst one was a Santa Fe flat car kit -- I ordered one each of two cars, 30.1 and 30.3 (.1
had 10 stake pockets, and .3 had 12 stake pockets). Only after I had built them did I realize the
cars were exactly the same -- I'd received two 30.3 sets of parts! Only the box labels were different.

Nice cars, though. :-) I'm sure more surprises await me in kits I have not unwrapped yet!

Tim O'Connor




 Those of you with stashes of kits may be in for nasty surprises if you haven� already examined them and submitted warranty claims. You would think Sunshine would attempt to correct their kit packing error, since that is NOT a warranty issue. I� extremely disappointed with the response, and can assure you that I�e purchased my last Sunshine kit as a result of their unacceptable business practices.
 
Nelson Moyer



Re: Sunshine Response to Request for Replacement of Wrong Parts in Three Kits

Bill Welch
 

Nelson, I hear your disappointment and frustration. When Martin died last year, the manufacturing capability of Sunshine died with him. Any kits Sunshine was able to sell after his death came from what was on hand. It sound like the kits you need replacement parts for are the Wartime Built BRE cars, the patterns for which I did several years ago. If you still have an unbuilt kit, the "Resin Casting Calvary" may be able to help you. If not, perhaps someone on this list has an unbuilt kit they would be willing to loan you to be copied.

Bill Welch


Re: typical ART wood reefers

ROGER HINMAN
 

There are drawings in the 1912 Car Cyc of the 30T cars built by ACF for ART; you should be able to find this in Google books

Roger Hinman

On May 23, 2014, at 4:45 PM, ed_mines@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Thanks Al & Tony.

 

Hope there's a drawing in the book.

 

Ed Mines

 


 




Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

Tom Vanwormer
 

Jerry,
Lists in pencil and poor handwriting makes the historical research effort a real exercise in cryptology seem simple.
Tom VanWormer
Working Colorado Midland Ledger Books from the 1890s.

asychis@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

depending on who did the writing, these lists (and timebooks as well) can be difficult to transcribe.  My only conductor's list, from the MP Warsaw Branch in the 1940s was horrible to transcribe.  It took me weeks to decipher the conductor's handwriting! A few entries were just impossible.
 
Jerry Michels.



Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

Cyril Durrenberger
 

Dave,

That will be very valuable information in a time period when not much of this data has been available in the past, or at least is not available to most of us.

If you do not have time to process all of these, please consider doing some representative years, such as 1923, 1928 and 1934.

I agree with the past comments on the format of presenting the data, so I will not discuss that.

Remember that many of the road names or reporting marks may not be familiar to people who have not done research during these earlier years, but many of us will be happy to assist in determining the railroads that are listed. Many times they used a shortened version to write down the reporting marks, and this was often their own version or one that was common on that railroad and therefore not standardized.

Cyril Durrenberger
--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 5/22/14, David Bott dbott@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Subject: [STMFC] Are conductor's lists of interest?
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Date: Thursday, May 22, 2014, 6:28 PM
















 









I have a cache of conductor train books from
the Southern Railway Winston Salem Division spanning
1923-1934.  I have waffled between scanning and
translating the contents into Excel spreadsheets. One reason
I joined this list is to learn more about cars of this era
in order to model one of these trains. These lists cover
specific crew, locomotive, cars by road, cargo (type, tons,
and destination city), cab, and travel time.
I just wonder how common such info is among
historians, and is the info worth the effort to convert to
an electronic format? If so, which is more
useful?
At some point, I'll donate to the proper
archive. For now, they are just fun to peruse and inspire my
modeling. Would anyone here care for this info?
Dave

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone


Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

asychis@...
 

depending on who did the writing, these lists (and timebooks as well) can be difficult to transcribe.  My only conductor's list, from the MP Warsaw Branch in the 1940s was horrible to transcribe.  It took me weeks to decipher the conductor's handwriting! A few entries were just impossible.
 
Jerry Michels.


Re: Red Caboose undec kits

ed_mines
 

RC-7001 & RC-7003

 

Ed Mines


hand rail joints

ed_mines
 

 I bought some small diameter brass tubing (.4-1.0mm OD) from Albion Alloys. It's much easier to cut than hypodermic tubing - I used a rat tail file.

 

Ed Mines


Re: typical ART wood reefers

ed_mines
 

Thanks Al & Tony.

 

Hope there's a drawing in the book.

 

Ed Mines

 


 


Re: Are conductor's lists of interest?

Steve SANDIFER
 

I don't have many, but here is my try from ATSF, 1930, in Kansas.
http://www.atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Frt/index.htm

I have also transcribed some ATSF passenger train conductors records also on
the Santa Fe site.

________________________________________________________________
Steve Sandifer
12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477
713-376-0684
www.ssandifer.com

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 12:01 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Are conductor's lists of interest?


Eric Neubauer wrote:


I would disagree with Tony on only one point. Rather than transcribing them,
I would first make a digital copy for the following reasons:
1. Transcription is time consuming and tedious.
2. It is subject to transcription errors.
3. It is subject to interpretation errors especially when handwritten.

There are many times that I have had to refer back to original documents
because I suspected either of the last two had happened. If you don't have
the documents on hand, it can be a real hassle.
The advantage of transcription is that it can provide a more legible,
concise, and manipulable form, but in my opinion it is not as good as a copy
of the original. Having both is ideal.

Copies of the original can be done by scanning or photographing. The latter
can even be done with a hand held digital camera though the results are not
always great. Usually you need good light to reduce the aperture and
increase the depth of field. Exposure times may need to be 1/25th of a
second which requires a steady hand. At least on my camera an ISO greater
than 400 is not advisable. Photography is much easier on the original and
quicker than scanning. Scanning produces better images than photography. A
color image is best even if the original is black and white, and high
quality JPEG is a good choice for file type. TIFFs are better in quality,
but the difference is usually not worth the cost of handling the much larger
files.

All good points, Eric, and I agree. I should have been more clear,
because I myself, in working with SP Coast Divi;sion time books, first
scanned all pages, then went through them afterward to collect data. I guess
I just meant "eventually transcribe" the information.
David, you will notice there is good agreement among several of us,
that this information is the gold standard.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

70701 - 70720 of 195395