Date   

Re: Shorpy MDT Shops Photo

Michael Aufderheide
 

Are those brake shoes stacked up like firewood?

 

Mike Aufderheide


Re: Digest Number 8764

N Fries <nfriespf@...>
 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

STMFC@... wrote:


Re: Obsolete scrap on-line service gons was: Sorpy MDT Shops Photo

tyesac@...
 

Instead, the "piles of crap" could be an excuse to model a nearly condemned / obsolete truss-rod gon to accumulate a load ready to be sent to some on-line scrap yard.  As a modeling exercise it would be a chance to build and display a static, hyper detailed gon that wouldn't be appropriate for a latter post war transition layout. 
 
What are rules for counting these types of cars listed in the ORER, once transferred permently to MOW service, they're off the list, right? 
 
A photo of a partially loaded ex-Orient wood framed gon in a Santa Fe back shop containing scrap appeared in the Santa Fe Open Top Cars book authored by Richard Hendrickson comes to mind.  
 
Tom Casey
"Allen/Sellios-inspired "piles of crap""     hahahahahaha...
Clark Cone


On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
Bob Chaparro wrote:
"Here is a link to a circa 1904 photo of the Merchants Despatch Transportation Company shops in Despatch (present-day East Rochester), New York. 
 
http://www.shorpy.com/node/8253?size=_original#caption
 
Click on the photo to enlarge it.  The amount of detail in the way of freight car parts is amazing."
 
Note that repair parts are organized and sorted for easy retrieval.  Even if you give allowances for a posed photo, this makes sense if your business is repairing cars in a timely manner, unlike the Allen/Sellios-inspired "piles of crap" approach model railroaders fall in love with.
 
Ben Hom



-----Original Message-----
From: Misc Clark clark.cone4@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Jun 6, 2014 9:46 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Shorpy MDT Shops Photo

 
"Allen/Sellios-inspired "piles of crap""     hahahahahaha...
Clark Cone


On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
Bob Chaparro wrote:
"Here is a link to a circa 1904 photo of the Merchants Despatch Transportation Company shops in Despatch (present-day East Rochester), New York. 
 
http://www.shorpy.com/node/8253?size=_original#caption
 
Click on the photo to enlarge it.  The amount of detail in the way of freight car parts is amazing."
 
Note that repair parts are organized and sorted for easy retrieval.  Even if you give allowances for a posed photo, this makes sense if your business is repairing cars in a timely manner, unlike the Allen/Sellios-inspired "piles of crap" approach model railroaders fall in love with.
 
Ben Hom


Re: Shorpy MDT Shops Photo

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 


The amount of detail in the way of freight car parts is amazing."


    I found the parts pile/stack for Fox trucks interesting.
-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Shorpy MDT Shops Photo

Bruce Smith
 

Lat year, when I visited the Strasburg Railroad (a time machine that takes you back into the steam era, with lots of steam era freight and passenger cars), I noted that their stock piles of repair parts outside the shops looked very similar to those in the National Archives (and Shorpy) photo of the MDT shops.


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/


"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."


On Jun 6, 2014, at 9:44 AM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] wrote:

Bob Chaparro wrote:
"Here is a link to a circa 1904 photo of the Merchants Despatch Transportation Company shops in Despatch (present-day East Rochester), New York. 
 
http://www.shorpy.com/node/8253?size=_original#caption
 
Click on the photo to enlarge it.  The amount of detail in the way of freight car parts is amazing."
 
Note that repair parts are organized and sorted for easy retrieval.  Even if you give allowances for a posed photo, this makes sense if your business is repairing cars in a timely manner, unlike the Allen/Sellios-inspired "piles of crap" approach model railroaders fall in love with.
 
Ben Hom


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Re: Shorpy MDT Shops Photo

Misc Clark
 

"Allen/Sellios-inspired "piles of crap""     hahahahahaha...
Clark Cone


On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:
"Here is a link to a circa 1904 photo of the Merchants Despatch Transportation Company shops in Despatch (present-day East Rochester), New York. 
 
http://www.shorpy.com/node/8253?size=_original#caption
 
Click on the photo to enlarge it.  The amount of detail in the way of freight car parts is amazing."
 
Note that repair parts are organized and sorted for easy retrieval.  Even if you give allowances for a posed photo, this makes sense if your business is repairing cars in a timely manner, unlike the Allen/Sellios-inspired "piles of crap" approach model railroaders fall in love with.
 
Ben Hom



Re: Shorpy MDT Shops Photo

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:
"Here is a link to a circa 1904 photo of the Merchants Despatch Transportation Company shops in Despatch (present-day East Rochester), New York. 
 
http://www.shorpy.com/node/8253?size=_original#caption
 
Click on the photo to enlarge it.  The amount of detail in the way of freight car parts is amazing."
 
Note that repair parts are organized and sorted for easy retrieval.  Even if you give allowances for a posed photo, this makes sense if your business is repairing cars in a timely manner, unlike the Allen/Sellios-inspired "piles of crap" approach model railroaders fall in love with.
 
Ben Hom


CNJ Box Car Red?

Ken Roth
 

Can someone provide a clue to the Jersey Central's boxcar color for late 1940's.  Alas it does not appear to be in the RPC boxcar color table.  I'm most interested in the general hue needed (oxide red? red-brown? brown?), but if someone has a formula using Floquil or Scalecoat that would be great, too.


Thanks in advance,

Ken Roth


Re: Truss Rod CNO&TP boxcar

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

I had meant to look this up anyway, so Gary identifying the builder just made my work a lot easier.
CNO&TP 14850-15849 order reported 3,5-06. Based on typical lead times, delivery would have been late 1906 or early 1907. Built dates of auto car coversions in valuation report confirm 1906. 15104 appears to have been reweighed 12-14.

CNO&TP 13500-15849 became SOU 252500-254599 in the 'teens. Most were rebuilt 1913-16.
The larger CNO&TP series included some cars modified with 10' doors for auto service which became 270000-270119 and some steel underframe replacements built by Lenoir in 1915 which became 260000-260018.

Eric N.


Gary:

Thanks for finding, and posting the fabulous photos of CNO&TP box car 15104! I can add some information from the Southern Railway Historical Association�s archives:

CNO&TP 15104 was one of 1,000 cars, series 14850 - 15849 built by Mt. Vernon Car Co. (research is needed to determine the specific Blt Date)
Because the series conflicted with Southern cars, cars that survived until the SR took control of the were renumbered starting with 253322 when the SR renumbered CNO&TP cars in the new CNO&TP 252500 number series. 15104 was most likely renumbered Southern 253325.

Unfortunately, no drawings for these cars are known to exist. Like many mergers or acquisitions, drawings and documentation did not come with the rolling stock. (People are checking in the Cincinnati area.) While the archives include nearly every early SR drawing, including MtVCCCo built cars in the same time frame, the CNO&TP cars were likely a standard Mt Vernon design but the Southern�s were not.

Note that the Southern�s new car number series, and renumbering, started at the next available road number, not at what we would think of as a typical �series� number. Until about the 1920s the Southern required car builders to follow the railroad�s car designs quite closely. The Southern used standard cast parts, typically from the Lenoir Car Works foundry, and maintained an inventory of wood sized to their drawings and did not want non-standard parts in their inventory. Many times, the railroad insisted on purchasing the �specialties� (trucks, couplers, air brakes, etc.) directly from those manufacturers and shipping them to the car builder. Because the results were so much the same across different orders or car builders, the railroad simply continued the number series without worrying about beginning orders at a logical number boundary. (The Southern�s purchasing methods resulted in many no-bids or complaints from the car builders because their profit margins were kept to a minimum. Consider the profit a car dealer used to make when they sold radios or air conditioning as options.)

The Southern and Central of Georgia drawings from the 1880s to the end of the wooden car era are literally works of art. The SRHA archives contain high proportion of SR linen originals from about 1904. The collection contains virtually complete sets of drawings for many SR and CofG wood and SUF cars. The archives will be open the week before the RPM meet in Kennesaw in September and drawing copies will be available. I will have the latest draft of the SRHA �Wood and Steel Underframe Box, Refrigerator and Cattle Cars� books at the meet.

Ike





------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Re: Boxcars In Grain Service

Clark Propst
 

I have 181 snap shots taken on the CGW at Stewartville Minn., with a few taken at Rochester, over about a 10 year period. Not all the cars are in grain service. There are several shots of hoppers for iron ore loading and there are a few merchandise cars as well.
There’s a brief story about a layout modeling this line in last January’s “Model Railroad Planning”.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Truss Rod CNO&TP boxcar

George Eichelberger
 

Gary:

Thanks for finding, and posting the fabulous photos of CNO&TP box car 15104! I can add some information from the Southern Railway Historical Association’s archives:

CNO&TP 15104 was one of 1,000 cars, series 14850 - 15849 built by Mt. Vernon Car Co. (research is needed to determine the specific Blt Date)
Because the series conflicted with Southern cars, cars that survived until the SR took control of the were renumbered starting with 253322 when the SR renumbered CNO&TP cars in the new CNO&TP 252500 number series. 15104 was most likely renumbered Southern 253325.

Unfortunately, no drawings for these cars are known to exist. Like many mergers or acquisitions, drawings and documentation did not come with the rolling stock. (People are checking in the Cincinnati area.) While the archives include nearly every early SR drawing, including MtVCCCo built cars in the same time frame, the CNO&TP cars were likely a standard Mt Vernon design but the Southern’s were not.

Note that the Southern’s new car number series, and renumbering, started at the next available road number, not at what we would think of as a typical “series” number. Until about the 1920s the Southern required car builders to follow the railroad’s car designs quite closely. The Southern used standard cast parts, typically from the Lenoir Car Works foundry, and maintained an inventory of wood sized to their drawings and did not want non-standard parts in their inventory. Many times, the railroad insisted on purchasing the “specialties” (trucks, couplers, air brakes, etc.) directly from those manufacturers and shipping them to the car builder. Because the results were so much the same across different orders or car builders, the railroad simply continued the number series without worrying about beginning orders at a logical number boundary. (The Southern’s purchasing methods resulted in many no-bids or complaints from the car builders because their profit margins were kept to a minimum. Consider the profit a car dealer used to make when they sold radios or air conditioning as options.)

The Southern and Central of Georgia drawings from the 1880s to the end of the wooden car era are literally works of art. The SRHA archives contain high proportion of SR linen originals from about 1904. The collection contains virtually complete sets of drawings for many SR and CofG wood and SUF cars. The archives will be open the week before the RPM meet in Kennesaw in September and drawing copies will be available. I will have the latest draft of the SRHA “Wood and Steel Underframe Box, Refrigerator and Cattle Cars” books at the meet.

Ike


Re: Boxcars In Grain Service

Benjamin Scanlon
 


Hello Clark

 

I do not know if those CGW shots are online but if they are it would be very interesting.  What I am seeking is a 'snapshot' of a particular location rather than figures for how many thousands of cars were in service nationally or going to particular ports. 

 

The point is that this kind of 'local' view does give you a bit of inspiration and may show what was typical at an elevator on a particular day. 

 

Regards

 

Ben Scanlon 


postwar AAR boxcar improved dreadnaught 4/4 ends- dimensions

Benjamin Scanlon
 

Hi

 

In TT scale a manufacturer is making these and I am wondering if there is a plan someone might share that gives the essential dimensions. In particular for a model you'd want to know the width, the dimension from the bottom of the tab with the poling pockets to the top of the side, from the centre bottom to peaked top and the dimensions of the tabs on either side  where the poling pockets are. 

 

Sorry if that is not alarmingly clear (I wish I knew what some of these parts were called) but this image shows what I'm talking about. 

 

TrainLife - October 1999 - Page 44

Regards

 

Benjamin Scanlon

Tottenham Hale,

England


Re: Boxcars In Grain Service

Doug Auburg
 

This may not be news since others have already said that boxcar grain shipments lasted well beyond the period I had direct experience with, but I thought some of you might be interested in a little personal experience with grain in boxcars.

 

I worked for the UP in the summers of 1961 & ’62 while going to college.  At that time UP (and other RR’s I presume) hired college students as vacation relief because we would resign at the end of the summer to go back to school and they didn’t have to worry about paying our unemployment when we would have been laid off in the winter anyway.  The pay was good and the work was interesting.

 

I worked as a switchman/brakeman but mostly as a switchman in yard service due to my low seniority during those summers.  I worked in Portland and, when bumped off that Extra Board, in The Dalles, Oregon (1st Division point east of Portland).

 

I don’t recall ever seeing a covered hopper except the small ones that were used for cement and bauxite (going to or from area Aluminum smelters) service.  As a junior crew member, I would never see any paperwork in the normal course of events and so rarely knew what the load was in a car unless it was visible. 

 

But grain loads in boxcars were often easy to spot because the grain doors weren’t very effective and it was common to see a small stream of grain running out of one lower corner of a boxcar door.  Windrows of old grain were common along the ends of ties in yards, often with seedlings having sprouted and trying to take root in the ballast.  Pigeons were all over the place eating dropped grain.  I remember wondering how much grain was lost in transit from these leaky cars with their imperfect grain doors?  Of course I wouldn’t have seen the boxcars with grain loads whose grain doors were tight so I really don’t know what percentage of these setups leaked.

 

Doug Auburg

Battle Ground WA

 

 


Re: X29 ends - PMM

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 


Hi Greg,
 
Of course, those articles were published in 'DING! Thanks for the correction.
 
  -  Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM

Claus,
 
It was actually Model Railroading. It was a great mix of the prototype and modeling "how to". A brilliant piece of work.
 
For me it start with two modelers, Mont Switzer and Richard Hendrickson and their articles in Prototype Modeler. I was on both the research and the modeling.
 
 
Greg Martin
 
 
Claus writes:
  
Hi List Members,
 
For me, it was the multi-installment series on PRR hoppers done by John Teichmoeller in, I believe, RMJ. I never knew such a quantity of information of cars could be amassed!
 
  -  Claus Schlund
 
 


Re: X29 ends - PMM

Greg Martin
 

Claus,
 
It was actually Model Railroading. It was a great mix of the prototype and modeling "how to". A brilliant piece of work.
 
For me it start with two modelers, Mont Switzer and Richard Hendrickson and their articles in Prototype Modeler. I was on both the research and the modeling.
 
 
Greg Martin
 
 
Claus writes:

  
Hi List Members,
 
For me, it was the multi-installment series on PRR hoppers done by John Teichmoeller in, I believe, RMJ. I never knew such a quantity of information of cars could be amassed!
 
  -  Claus Schlund
 
 


DUPE

clipper841@att.net <clipper841@...>
 

apologize, for the duplicate, having nothing but problems with yehoo lately,
it is including addresses, not copied in the original address line, from where,
i don't know?
mel perry


Influences

clipper841@...
 



leave us not forget, jack work, gib kennedy, paul larson, martin lofton, and our present
sources, the martin brothers (heh, heh), jack burgess, ted culotta, richard hendrickson,
and  ed hawkins, and last but not least,  the great john allen, all of whom contributed
to the advancement, the knowledge and techniques, that we know today, thanks guys
mel perry

On Jun 5, 2014, at 7:45 PM, Robert rdkirkham@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

I’m curious to know how the authors of those earlier articles we all reference got to not only be interested at a level way beyond the hobby, but collected enough material to become authors.  Their accomplishment became the entry point for a whole other level of hobby enjoyment.
 
I’d have to agree that Jack Work was an influence for me too.  A buddy,  Guy Brooke, now sadly passed on, was fortunate enough to see a flat car modelled by Jack.   It included a scratch built ratchet and pawl on the hand brake.  Great modeller.
 
Rob Kirkham    
 
Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2014 9:33 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Influences
 


For me, it was RMJ in general that was amazing.  I suppose it was Ed Hawkin’s box car articles that really got me hooked.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:53 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM

 

 



Hi List Members,

 

For me, it was the multi-installment series on PRR hoppers done by John Teichmoeller in, I believe, RMJ. I never knew such a quantity of information of cars could be amassed!

 

  -  Claus Schlund

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 6:43 AM

Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM

 

For me the seminal modeling projects were Gibb Kennedy’s Kettle Valley passenger cars and John Chapp’s B&LE Pressed Steel hopper. – Al Westerfield

 

Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:30 AM

Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM

 

 



I don't believe that John Nehrich and the RPI group get nearly enough credit for the ,"Great Awakening".Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 10:19 PM

Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM

 

 

I find the emergence of interest in prototype freight cars in the model railroading hobby interesting.  I came to the topic much later than many here, but can retrace the developing interest through certain key articles. 

 

I think the interesting bit to me is that I had not heard of James Lane’s articles, nor those of  Gary Rausch and Bob Johnson or Amerine until this discussion in this list.    Each of those was published in a journal that was unknown to me back in the 1970s.  I spent a few years there colleting back issue of MR and RMC, but that still didn’t give me awareness of other periodicals.  In fact, I’m not sure when I first became aware of historical societies with publications – but it would have been in the 1980s. 

 

It makes me think just how much easier it is to discovery these things today.  

 

Rob Kirkham

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/7622 - Release Date: 06/04/14





Influences

clipper841@att.net <clipper841@...>
 



leave us not forget, jack work, gib kennedy, paul larson, martin lofton, and our present
sources, the martin brothers (heh, heh), jack burgess, ted culotta, richard hendrickson,
and  ed hawkins, and last but not least,  the great john allen, all of whom contributed
to the advancement, the knowledge and techniques, that we know today, thanks guys
mel perry

On Jun 5, 2014, at 7:45 PM, Robert rdkirkham@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

I’m curious to know how the authors of those earlier articles we all reference got to not only be interested at a level way beyond the hobby, but collected enough material to become authors.  Their accomplishment became the entry point for a whole other level of hobby enjoyment.
 
I’d have to agree that Jack Work was an influence for me too.  A buddy,  Guy Brooke, now sadly passed on, was fortunate enough to see a flat car modelled by Jack.   It included a scratch built ratchet and pawl on the hand brake.  Great modeller.
 
Rob Kirkham    
 
Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2014 9:33 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Influences
 


For me, it was RMJ in general that was amazing.  I suppose it was Ed Hawkin’s box car articles that really got me hooked.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:53 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM

 

 



Hi List Members,

 

For me, it was the multi-installment series on PRR hoppers done by John Teichmoeller in, I believe, RMJ. I never knew such a quantity of information of cars could be amassed!

 

  -  Claus Schlund

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 6:43 AM

Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM

 

For me the seminal modeling projects were Gibb Kennedy’s Kettle Valley passenger cars and John Chapp’s B&LE Pressed Steel hopper. – Al Westerfield

 

Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:30 AM

Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM

 

 



I don't believe that John Nehrich and the RPI group get nearly enough credit for the ,"Great Awakening".Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 10:19 PM

Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM

 

 

I find the emergence of interest in prototype freight cars in the model railroading hobby interesting.  I came to the topic much later than many here, but can retrace the developing interest through certain key articles. 

 

I think the interesting bit to me is that I had not heard of James Lane’s articles, nor those of  Gary Rausch and Bob Johnson or Amerine until this discussion in this list.    Each of those was published in a journal that was unknown to me back in the 1970s.  I spent a few years there colleting back issue of MR and RMC, but that still didn’t give me awareness of other periodicals.  In fact, I’m not sure when I first became aware of historical societies with publications – but it would have been in the 1980s. 

 

It makes me think just how much easier it is to discovery these things today.  

 

Rob Kirkham

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/7622 - Release Date: 06/04/14





Re: Development of data sources an the historical record

cinderandeight@...
 

Eric,
    Sounds like you traveled much the same path as I have.  Researching the real thing was too much fun to keep modelling.  I agree, Craig Bossler was and is still one of those rare knowledgable historians who was "there" back in the 1970's and even 1960's recording information, and taking photos.  One of the best "Hotels" I have ever stayed at has been the "Hotel Bossler" in Reading, PA..  Amazing library.
    It seems that before 1970 the hobby of freight car history was being practiced on a low level by numerous photographers, perhaps as a side hobby to the locomotives.  My favorite was Paul Dunn, who shot massive numbers of freight car negatives.  Another was my friend John F Harris Sr., who as a PRR frieght car inspector knew exactly what to shoot.  We owe a debt to the many photographers who bothered to record freight cars.  Film wasn't cheap, and we are fortunate that so many images have surfaced over the years.
    Today the hobby has shifted more toward library research, but us older guys sure miss the days when we could just head out on a road trip and shoot the "cars in the wild".  They are all in "game preserves" now (museums).
    Rich Burg
   

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