|
Re: X29 ends - Westerfield
Peter Weiglin
Al Westerfield is generous in giving credit to those folks who helped him, even if that help started out as the picking of nits. We're all grateful for those nit-pickers, perhaps not immediately, but eventually.
But it also should be pointed out that Al deserves much credit for LISTENING to, and making improvements based upon, those helpful communications. He could have responded quite differently, e.g., "What difference does that make? Only the nuts care about that." Thank you, Al. We can also wish and hope that the lesson is not lost on other manufacturers. Peter Weiglin
|
|
|
|
Re: Painting HO Scale Brass
Thanks for the additional feedback on this topic - to all who participated. And yes, I meant "baking"... Matt Goodman Columbus, Ohio
On Jun 7, 2014, at 1:38 AM, "tgregmrtn@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
Can I take a minute and try to put this all in
some sort of context?
First Matt asked:
"Inexperience question here.
My understanding regarding backing (baking?) is that it is intended to drive off the volatiles in the freshly applied paint. Is this correct?" Matt, yes it accelerates drying process by
evaporation of the chemical drying agents in the paint, Jerry Glow could
explain it better as he is a former auto body repairman. The same baking
techniques are used to do the same to prototype freight equipment, it is
the application that differs.
"Also, I believe I read somewhere that letting a freshly painted model sit
for several days (or longer) would accomplish the same thing - only
(obviously) slower...
Good thread. Matt Goodman Columbus, Ohio" That could be true but the heating process
makes the enamel dry harder quicker. As I have said I don't bake my brass in the
oven but I do in natural sunlight under supervision or under a 60 watt bulb
perhaps overnight in winter. If I want to bake solvent based enamels on
plastic I dry them in natural sunlight with extra supervision as the
combination of the solvents and the heat can soften
plastic
The Peter adds:
" I had been lead to believe that baking paint like Scalecoat, would
actually improve the adhesion of the paint to brass."
Not really, adhesion would improve if you do as
Schuyler and Mike mentions by lightly etching the surface chemically or with
"grit blasting"
"I know from experience that baked on lacquer and enamel paint resists scratching better. Pierre Oliver www.elgincarshops.com www.yarmouthmodelworks.com" True" enamel" by it's nature/name is expected
to be harder, the same with lacquer-based enamel, which would leave one to
believe it would resist scratching better.
Bruce writes:
"Matt,
Baking is only appropriate for enamel based paint." Wait! I have an issue with this statement and it follows
along with the use of the term, "Dulux Gold", Dulux is a brand not a
specific color and enamel is referenced to a hardened
surface paint not to a "base" of a paint. There are lacquer,
alkyd resin, or poly-vinyl acrylic or latex vehicle based enamel paints...
"There is a school of thought that says that it causes the paint
to "cure" or polymerize, which may well be true. Never ever bake plastic or any
metal that might melt (like some weights) and do not bake acrylic paints.
Baking an enamel paint job will allow you to move on to the next
application more rapidly.
Regards Bruce" I am not sure why you wouldn't bake an
acrylic/latex or poly vinyl acrylic paint as it would help the surface dry
harder and as the late owner (his name escapes me Greg K??? help me out
here Dennis) of ACUFLEX paint recommended you do exactly that because he
reminded me that, "acrylics are like Spandex and shrink to
fit..." He was right his paint went
on what seems to be "goby" and once the surface was heated it shrunk incredibly
tight to the surface. Wonderful stuff.
Schuyler
replies:
"Pierre is correct. When I have baked Scalecoat 1, the resulting finish is
harder, glossier, and more resistant to scratching than any other paint I've
used. Allowing paint to dry "until the odor is gone" works OK, but it will not
give you the same durability of finish. It will scratch more easily and wear on
grabs and other wear points."
Schuyler reinforces the point that baking
results in a harder, glossier and more scratch resistant finish and
testifies that Scalecoat 1 is the "one". No Contest here, I don't want to
start a "my doges better than your dog" thread,
The point is that heating the paint to a given
temperature and holding it there for a given period of time does 1.) gas off the
vehicle quicker, 2) promoting faster drying, 3) and enameling the surface
faster. In the case of acrylic paints it "sucks" the paint
tighter to the surface. An equally hard surface can be achieved in
time if allowed to simply air dry.
"Bruce offers "polymerize."
Maybe. I don't know if that's what it does or not. But whatever it does, it
works.
Schuyler" Greg Martin
|
|
|
|
Re: X29 ends - PMM
Both without patch panels but they also had the 7003 ARA body with short frame and B&O ladders, 7005 (patch and plate ends), 7006 REA patch with plate ends and 7007 REA with dreadnaught ends. Fenton Wells
On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
|
|
|
|
Re: X29 ends - PMM
Benjamin Hom
Fenton Wells wrote:
"Gentlemen, FYI , I just received a letter from Red Caboose and the RC-7001 ' 28 body, X-29 with dreadnaught ends and their RC-7002 X-29 '24 body with plate ends are 'in stock'" First, NO DASHES IN PRR CAR CLASSES! Second, with or without patch panels? Ben Hom
|
|
|
|
Re: X29 ends - PMM
Gentlemen, FYI , I just received a letter from Red Caboose and the RC-7001 ' 28 body, X-29 with dreadnaught ends and their RC-7002 X-29 '24 body with plate ends are "in stock" Fenton Wells
On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
|
|
|
|
Re: X29 ends - PMM
Benjamin Hom
Jeff Aley wrote:
"I find this surprising, as the cars currently in production by Intermountain (RTR) do not appear to have patch panels (based on photos on their website). But perhaps these were molded long ago, and are only now being assembled and painted." http://www.intermountain-railway.com/distrib/redcaboose/redcabooseho.html The tooling change information was based on a posting on either STMFC, PRR-Modeling, or the B&O list when the patch panel models first came out. If this is not the case, I'm happy to be wrong! I'm a bit disappointed with what's being offered, though, especially if you're going to shell out $34.95 MSRP. They're using tooling without patch panels for these models, which limits their utility to transition-era modelers, as most cars needed to have side sill repairs by the 1950s. They continue to exhibit the incorrect AB brake arrangement noted in an earlier post. The trucks shown (Accurail "Bettendorf") are incorrect for the PRR cars, which is inexplicable as the original Red Caboose models had the correct trucks. Finally, I'd check my research before buying - there's no indication that Intermountain matched the right bodies (1924 PRR, 1928 PRR, ARA) to the roads offered; some of these prototypes had different roofs (CNJ, MEC green, LNE black); Duryea cushion underframes (B&O), and two are outright bogus (SAL, N&W). Caevat emptor. Ben Hom
|
|
|
|
Re: Development of data sources an the historical record
Bill Welch
"One of the surprises that came from helping Al (and Martin) was that they invariably used the information and said thank you with a free kit. Two cases I remember w/Al that seemed very small on my part was a photo of a Clinchfield (CC&O) USRA SS 50-ton car (very rare before Col. McCoid) and a Southern SU painted for Lancaster & Chester.
A bigger deal was some wrestling we did when I informed him there were two versions of the PRR R7--two different builders I think--involving the ladders and details around the ends of the lower sills. A deluge of photos was followed by revised parts and all was good with the universe, such was/is Al's commitment to getting it right. Bill Welch
|
|
|
|
Re: X29 ends - PMM
Aley, Jeff A
I find this surprising, as the cars currently in production by Intermountain (RTR) do not appear to have patch panels (based on photos on their website). But perhaps these were molded long ago, and are only now being assembled and painted.
Regards,
-Jeff
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2014 8:45 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 ends - PMM
Gene Green asked:
|
|
|
|
Re: X29 ends - PMM
Benjamin Hom
Gene Green asked:
"Were the original Red Caboose X29 dies altered to add the patch panels?" Yes. "Will the original Red Caboose X29s without patch panels ever be available again?" Barring new tooling, probably not, but there are still plenty of the older models on the market. Ben Hom
|
|
|
|
Tahoe MW freight Trucks less wheels
Andy Carlson
Hello- I have good quantities of all 14 of the Tahoe Model Works trucks. All of these are offered LESS wheel sets. Suitable wheels are: NWSL; Proto 2000; Kadee; Rebox; Intermountain and others. #001 Dalman 2-level w/o Lateral Motion device #002 Dalman 2-level with Lateral Motion device #003 40-50 ton Arch Bar 5'6" wheelbase #004 Bettendorf Swing Motion Caboose #005 Barber-Bettendorf swing Motion Caboose truck #006 Buckeye cast steel truck w/ spring plank #007 Double truss cast steel spring-plankless #008 Coil-Elliptic spring cast steel truck #009 Barber Lateral Motion #010 ASF 70-ton A3 ride control #011 Short Wheelbase (5'0") old-time Arch Ba r#012 USRA Andrews#013 Barber S2 w/ spring plank #014 Scullin 40-ton w/ spring plank All are priced at $4.50/pair, less wheel sets. Shipping of $2.85 for one or more pairs by 1st class USPS. I accept checks and money orders. For a small fee, I can accept PayPal. For questions and orders, please contact me off-line @ Thanks, -Andy Carlson Ojai CA
|
|
|
|
Re: Development of data sources an the historical record
I became a prototype modeler only after starting my business. I
relied on model railroad plans to determine which prototypes to choose. I
then scoured a major library for ORERs, Cycs and RAGs for data to support
them. However, about 2 months after issuing the XL box car I received a
phone call from the late John Stewart. He asked me how I could issue such
a nice model but with such lousy lettering. He said he had all the
lettering diagrams and would be happy to send them to me. Several weeks
later I received about 25 blueprints of lettering and stencil diagrams for many
PRR cars of the early 1900s. He also sent general arrangements for many of
them including the XL. Hell, I didn’t even know this stuff existed. Not
only did I revise the lettering but the model as well. Shortly thereafter
I received a letter from Richard Hendrickson with both praise and
complaint. (The complaint was wrong – he failed to read the instructions
completely.) As you would expect Richard offered to help me any
time. I was discovering that there were sources out there who knew
much more than I. Modelers started contacting me with advice and
information. By the time I issued my sixth kit I was a prototype
modeler. (I subsequently revised all of the previous kits to bring them up
to prototype standards.) Then Byron Rose contacted me with a complaint on
a minor detail. Sound familiar? This began a long association which
raised my skill level immeasurably. Byron demanded perfection. He
reviewed all the kits before issue which is why the assembly instructions were
so complete. Rarely if ever did he tell me the kits were good. I
remember my favorite phrase to him was, “Byron, perfection is the enemy of
excellence.” I learned that there were always guys who knew more than I
about a particular car or railroad. I now knew who to contact for help and
almost everyone in the community was more than willing to open their files for
me. Upon retirement I counted up all the acknowledgements in the kits and
discovered that over 200 modelers and historians had assisted me. – Al
Westerfield
|
|
|
|
Re: X29 ends - PMM
genegreen1942@...
Were the original Red Caboose X29 dies altered to add the patch panels?
Will the original Red Caboose X29s without patch panels ever be available again? Gene Green
|
|
|
|
Did I Ruin It? * * U P D A T E * *
Mark.Rossiter@...
Group: I'm happy to report that I did as many of you suggested and I blasted the box car in question with a fresh coat of Dullcoat and the white coating disappeared! Thanks to all who responded! It certainly was a lesson learned.
Mark Rossiter
|
|
|
|
Re: Painting HO Scale Brass
Greg Martin
Can I take a minute and try to put this all in
some sort of context?
First Matt asked:
"Inexperience question here.
My understanding regarding backing (baking?) is that it is intended to drive off the volatiles in the freshly applied paint. Is this correct?" Matt, yes it accelerates drying process by
evaporation of the chemical drying agents in the paint, Jerry Glow could
explain it better as he is a former auto body repairman. The same baking
techniques are used to do the same to prototype freight equipment, it is
the application that differs.
"Also, I believe I read somewhere that letting a freshly painted model sit
for several days (or longer) would accomplish the same thing - only
(obviously) slower...
Good thread. Matt Goodman Columbus, Ohio" That could be true but the heating process
makes the enamel dry harder quicker. As I have said I don't bake my brass in the
oven but I do in natural sunlight under supervision or under a 60 watt bulb
perhaps overnight in winter. If I want to bake solvent based enamels on
plastic I dry them in natural sunlight with extra supervision as the
combination of the solvents and the heat can soften
plastic
The Peter adds:
" I had been lead to believe that baking paint like Scalecoat, would
actually improve the adhesion of the paint to brass."
Not really, adhesion would improve if you do as
Schuyler and Mike mentions by lightly etching the surface chemically or with
"grit blasting"
"I know from experience that baked on lacquer and enamel paint resists scratching better. Pierre Oliver www.elgincarshops.com www.yarmouthmodelworks.com" True" enamel" by it's nature/name is expected
to be harder, the same with lacquer-based enamel, which would leave one to
believe it would resist scratching better.
Bruce writes:
"Matt,
Baking is only appropriate for enamel based paint." Wait! I have an issue with this statement and it follows
along with the use of the term, "Dulux Gold", Dulux is a brand not a
specific color and enamel is referenced to a hardened
surface paint not to a "base" of a paint. There are lacquer,
alkyd resin, or poly-vinyl acrylic or latex vehicle based enamel paints...
"There is a school of thought that says that it causes the paint
to "cure" or polymerize, which may well be true. Never ever bake plastic or any
metal that might melt (like some weights) and do not bake acrylic paints.
Baking an enamel paint job will allow you to move on to the next
application more rapidly.
Regards Bruce" I am not sure why you wouldn't bake an
acrylic/latex or poly vinyl acrylic paint as it would help the surface dry
harder and as the late owner (his name escapes me Greg K??? help me out
here Dennis) of ACUFLEX paint recommended you do exactly that because he
reminded me that, "acrylics are like Spandex and shrink to
fit..." He was right his paint went
on what seems to be "goby" and once the surface was heated it shrunk incredibly
tight to the surface. Wonderful stuff.
Schuyler
replies:
"Pierre is correct. When I have baked Scalecoat 1, the resulting finish is
harder, glossier, and more resistant to scratching than any other paint I've
used. Allowing paint to dry "until the odor is gone" works OK, but it will not
give you the same durability of finish. It will scratch more easily and wear on
grabs and other wear points."
Schuyler reinforces the point that baking
results in a harder, glossier and more scratch resistant finish and
testifies that Scalecoat 1 is the "one". No Contest here, I don't want to
start a "my doges better than your dog" thread,
The point is that heating the paint to a given
temperature and holding it there for a given period of time does 1.) gas off the
vehicle quicker, 2) promoting faster drying, 3) and enameling the surface
faster. In the case of acrylic paints it "sucks" the paint
tighter to the surface. An equally hard surface can be achieved in
time if allowed to simply air dry.
"Bruce offers "polymerize."
Maybe. I don't know if that's what it does or not. But whatever it does, it
works.
Schuyler" Greg Martin
|
|
|
|
Re: Painting HO Scale Brass
Schuyler Larrabee
Pierre is correct. When I have baked Scalecoat 1, the resulting finish is
harder, glossier, and more resistant to scratching than any other paint I've used. Allowing paint to dry "until the odor is gone" works OK, but it will not give you the same durability of finish. It will scratch more easily and wear on grabs and other wear points. Bruce offers "polymerize." Maybe. I don't know if that's what it does or not. But whatever it does, it works. Schuyler From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 2:45 PM To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [STMFC] Painting HO Scale Brass I had been lead to believe that baking paint like Scalecoat, would actually improve the adhesion of the paint to brass. I know from experience that baked on lacquer and enamel paint resists scratching better. Pierre Oliver www.elgincarshops.com www.yarmouthmodelworks.com On 6/6/2014 2:40 PM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@auburn.edu [STMFC] wrote: Matt, Baking is only appropriate for enamel based paint. There is a school of thought that says that it causes the paint to "cure" or polymerize, which may well be true. Never ever bake plastic or any metal that might melt (like some weights) and do not bake acrylic paints. Baking an enamel paint job will allow you to move on to the next application more rapidly. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ <https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/%7Esmithbf/> "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield." On Jun 6, 2014, at 12:36 PM, Matt Goodman goodman312@yahoo.co.uk [STMFC] wrote: Inexperience question here. My understanding regarding backing is that it is intended to drive off the volatiles in the freshly applied paint. Is this correct? Also, I believe I read somewhere that letting a freshly painted model sit for several days (or longer) would accomplish the same thing - only (obviously) slower... Good thread. Matt Goodman Columbus, Ohio Sent from my mobile On May 27, 2014, at 10:02 PM, "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@auburn.edu [STMFC]" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Paul, Skip the model "primer" because most of them are just plain paint. For dark colors, I paint with a Model Master flat black spray bomb and then with whatever I want to over that. For colors that I don't want a black layer under, I simply apply Scalecoat 1. I don't bake - there is no need and too much risk for my taste. Regards Bruce Smith Auburn, AL
|
|
|
|
Re: Know what railroad this is
George Courtney
Well, it could Central Railroad of Louisiana, a paper company of the Jersey Central? Tongue in cheek of course.
George Courtney
|
|
|
|
Re: Influences
proto48er
My greatest influence directing me toward faithful modeling of the prototype freight car occurred when I made (3) "O" scale brass mill gons back in 1970 to plans from a model magazine. I later learned that the side "breaks" on the plans were in the wrong place. I started photographing and measuring prototype freight cars immediately thereafter! I sold two of the cars, but have kept the third one in plain view at my office to remind me to keep measuring!
The next step came when I met a co-worker in 1974 - Cyril Durrenberger. He had worked in the same building for about 1-1/2 years before I met him - guys kept telling me that another RR nut was around! He introduced me to ORER's and freight car diagram books. Cyril has authored a very large number of prototype-related articles in various model magazines of the time, starting with the Prototype Modeler magazines (Bob Longo). At that time, several RR historical societies were being created also. Cyril and I purchased a number of ORER's from Roundhouse III in New York - that really helped. Then Cyril and I visited the photograph collection of AC&F in St Charles, Mo. to copy freight car photos. We spent 5 days there - I copied 3,700 freight car photos and only got to 1916 chronologically! On the last day, we met one Ed Hawkins and his two friends, Mr. Wider and Mr. Long - it was apparently their first trip to AC&F! A.T. Kott
|
|
|
|
Re: CNJ Box Car Red?
Rich C
Ken, Tru Color Paint has TCP-210 CNJ Freight Car Red 1937 through the 60's. Rich Christie
On Friday, June 6, 2014 2:47 PM, "ed_mines@... [STMFC]" wrote: How about an update on the RPC freight car color chart using the new fangled paints now available? Ed Mines
|
|
|
|
Re: Know what railroad this is
william darnaby
This would be a good number for CIL 385 a welded side pre-PS-1 (1947) Monon
box from the series 1-500 from Pullman. Bill Darnaby From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 3:33 PM To: stmfc@yahoogroups.com Subject: [STMFC] Know what railroad this is While going thought some Dispatcher reports in 1958 on the Northern Pacific. I found this car listed with a Hot Box set out report [ CJL 385] I would like to know which railroad this might be from and the car type. I do not know if this is a good reporting mark or not as it was done in pencil and hard to read. Have looked in the Jan 1958 Official Railway Equipment Register and could not find it. Any information on this car would be most helpful. Thank You Gary --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
|
|
|
|
Re: Know what railroad this is
Could it be >CIL<; which would be the Monon?
Thanks! -- Brian Ehni From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, June 6, 2014 at 3:32 PM To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [STMFC] Know what railroad this is While going thought some Dispatcher reports in 1958 on the Northern Pacific. I found this car listed with a Hot Box set out report [ CJL 385] I would like to know which railroad this might be from and the car type. I do not know if this is a good reporting mark or not as it was done in pencil and hard to read. Have looked in the Jan 1958 Official Railway Equipment Register and could not find it. Any information on this car would be most helpful. Thank You Gary [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
|
|