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Re: ERIE 95000 series roofs
al_brown03
The SAL Mechanical Department "Standard Practice Circular F-1", dated 10/10/48 (reprinted by the ACL & SAL HS), directs that the underframes of most freight cars be given "one coat of car cement". Only for flat cars is any distinction made between the steel underframe and woodwork: "complete body and underframe not including woodwork to be painted with one coat of car cement". I've heard for several roads that undersides of house-car floors weren't to be painted, but I think the following conclusions may be drawn: (1) for underside woodwork to be unpainted *wasn't* universal practice; and (2) whatever color the underside was painted (or wasn't), in service it attracted a lot of "weathering".
Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
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Re: ERIE 95000 series roofs
Ed, would the underframe parts be painted before, or after, the floor was installed?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I've seen photos of new cars with unpainted floor boards (underneath) but I don't know if this was a universal practice. Tim O'Connor
Sides & doors were Pittsburgh Carhide Brown. Black (car cement) applied to the u/f and ends. Black truck side frames. White stencils with white & black Erie monogram.
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Re: ERIE 95000 series roofs was RE: Painting HO Scale Brass
Ed Hawkins
On Jun 8, 2014, at 9:31 PM, abrown@fit.edu [STMFC] wrote:
In the end photo, the brake step looks lighter-colored than the end. Was the step unpainted too? That would look neat on a model.Al, In the "B" end ACF builder's photo there's no doubt that the brake step of Erie 95000 was unpainted galvanized steel (U.S. Gypsum). The ACF bill of materials typically don't say much, if anything, about running boards and brake steps. So we're at the mercy of photos to use as a guide. The collection of ACF bills of materials is available for review at the St. Louis Mercantile Library for cars built from 1931 through 1952 (lot numbers 1200 to about 3700). A few are missing, but the collection is largely complete for this range of time. Regards, Ed Hawkins
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Re: ERIE 95000 series roofs was RE: Painting HO Scale Brass
al_brown03
In the end photo, the brake step looks lighter-colored than the end. Was the step unpainted too? That would look neat on a model.
Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
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Re: X29 ends - PMM
Benjamin Hom
Lester Breuer asked:
"The discussion on X29 has been timely as I just acquired two Red Caboose 1924 body kits at an estate sale. One kit missing truck side frames. What would be the best truck replacement?" If you can't find replacement Red Caboose trucks (which have the early 2D-F8 bolster design) or want a later version of the 2D-F8, the Bowser trucks are a nice replacement (S/N 74286 for the sideframes, 74277 for pair with wheelsets). Kadee also offers a sprung 2D-F8 but hasn't reissued it in HGC yet. I personally would go with the Bowser trucks, as I find sprung trucks unconvincing, but YMMV. Ben Hom
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Re: ERIE 95000 series roofs was RE: Painting HO Scale Brass
Armand Premo
Thank you Ed.I really appreciate
your help.Armand Premo
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Re: ERIE 95000 series roofs was RE: Painting HO Scale Brass
Ed Hawkins
On Jun 8, 2014, at 1:42 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] wrote:
According to ACF paint specs in the bill of materials for lot 2288 (Erie 95000-95099), for new cars the roof seam caps were coated with black car cement while the rest of the roof (and running board) was unpainted galvanized steel. Sides & doors were Pittsburgh Carhide Brown. Black (car cement) applied to the u/f and ends. Black truck side frames. White stencils with white & black Erie monogram. Regards, Ed Hawkins
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Re: ERIE 95000 series roofs was RE: Painting HO Scale Brass
Armand Premo
Thank you
Schuyler 1948-50. I thought it might be black,but wanted to make sure..Armand
Premo
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Santa Fe "steam tug tow boat"
rwitt_2000
A recent listing on eBay for a Santa Fe "steam tug tow boat".
Santa Fe Terminal Steam Tug Tow Boat Erecting Blueprint Diagram
Bob Witt
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Re: X29 ends - PMM
frograbbit602
The discussion on X29 has been timely as I just acquired two Red Caboose 1924 body kits at an estate sale. One kit missing truck side frames. What would be the best truck replacement? Thanks in advance. Lester Breuer
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ERIE 95000 series roofs was RE: Painting HO Scale Brass
Schuyler Larrabee
Likely black, originally, when built in 1942. These had as you can see the small diamond. Larger 6’ diamond were applied not long after. When are you modeling?
Schuyler
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie95000bdb.jpg http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie95000adb.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie95000cdb.jpg
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2014 2:00 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Painting HO Scale Brass
Speaking of painting,does anyone know the color of the roof on the Erie's 95000 40' auto box cars? Armand Premo
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Re: Painting HO Scale Brass
Armand Premo
Speaking of painting,does anyone know the color of
the roof on the Erie's 95000 40' auto box cars? Armand Premo
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Re: Painting HO Scale Brass
Pierre Oliver
No Texas? Really!
You'd think it was going to Canada. Pierre Oliver www.elgincarshops.com www.yarmouthmodelworks.comOn 08/06/2014 12:02 PM, 'Charlie Morrill' badlands@... [STMFC] wrote:
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Re: Painting HO Scale Brass
Charles Morrill
Weaver won’t ship to Texas. Their policy. You can have a hobby
shop outside Texas ship it to you or have some friend living outside Tex. get it
for you.
Charlie in Texas --- still using Scalecoat that was purchased in Texas
before Weaver decided to not sell it here.
From: mailto:STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2014 10:46 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Painting HO Scale Brass Paul,
Order your Scalecoat direct. http://www.weavermodels.com/index.html Pierre Oliver www.elgincarshops.com www.yarmouthmodelworks.comOn 6/8/2014 11:25 AM, 'Paul Hillman' chris_hillman@... [STMFC] wrote:
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Re: Painting HO Scale Brass
Pierre Oliver
Paul,
Order your Scalecoat direct. http://www.weavermodels.com/index.html Pierre Oliver www.elgincarshops.com www.yarmouthmodelworks.comOn 6/8/2014 11:25 AM, 'Paul Hillman' chris_hillman@... [STMFC] wrote:
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Re: Influences
I am a little late to this party, but I will add that Tony’s multi-part series on PFE reefers in RMC triggered a lot with me. I even purchased extra copies of the magazines and started building collections of prototype based articles and photos from RMC, Model Railroading (Freight Cars of the 50’s series) etc. in binders separate from the magazine collection.
Of course, the PFE book became an important early purchase.
I fully agree about Terry’s UP book setting a very high standard for freight car source material.
Thanks to all who have, and continue to compile these kinds of source material.
Steve Hile
From:
STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
I was already attempting prototype modeling, but what really got my attention was Terry Metcalfe's book, Union Pacific Freight Cars, 1936-1951. I suddenly saw how this kind and amount of information could be organized and presented. It was the direct model for the car section of the PFE book and of my five volumes on SP freight cars. I still enjoy looking at Terry's book. While saying that, I regret, as I often do, that Terry is no longer with us. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Painting HO Scale Brass
Paul Hillman
Thanks everybody for the wonderful in-depth info on painting brass. My main
concern is adherence of the paint especially on handrails & corners of
parts. Grit-blasting down to clean brass and/or etching with vinegar & salt
(HCL) are the beginning. Baking is a necessity, I agree also.
It appears that Scalecoat I paint wins out as the preferred paint to use
for brass. However I have a problem acquiring it. I'm north of Houston, TX, and
Walthers says (and my local Hobby Shop) that Scalecoat can't be shipped to Texas
due to some "specialized permit". (Maybe I could drive to a hobby shop in
Louisiana or Oklahoma. That's only a few 100 miles !) Maybe it's even illegal to
bring it across the state line?
Seems like all other hobby paints are available here. Since Scalecoat is
enamel-based, what about the qualities of like Testors enamels? Or, some kind of
acrylic that "shrinks" for good adherence?
I tried the vinegar & salt and it worked ! I didn't leave the parts in
the mix too long, but the cleaning-etching was obviously working. When ready to
do the final cleaning, will leave the brass in the mixture longer, watching for
any bad-affects on the solder (maybe). It doesn't bring it down to a
"shiny" brass color. The surface remains darker in areas due to surface
oxides, or whatever, not "dirts" or oils. Will the proper paints adhere to these
surface-oxides, or is grit-blasting best down to entirely clean brass?
I tried CLR cleaner and it seems to do about the same level of general
cleaning as the vinegar & salt, but don't know about it's etching ability.
It tends to leave a reddish color, due to the copper in the brass, I
believe.
Paul Hillman
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Rapido GARX HO Scale Meat Reefer
Jason Shron
Hi guys, Jason
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Re: X29 ends - Westerfield
Peter Weiglin
Al Westerfield is generous in giving credit to those folks who helped him, even if that help started out as the picking of nits. We're all grateful for those nit-pickers, perhaps not immediately, but eventually.
But it also should be pointed out that Al deserves much credit for LISTENING to, and making improvements based upon, those helpful communications. He could have responded quite differently, e.g., "What difference does that make? Only the nuts care about that." Thank you, Al. We can also wish and hope that the lesson is not lost on other manufacturers. Peter Weiglin
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Re: Painting HO Scale Brass
Matt Goodman
Thanks for the additional feedback on this topic - to all who participated. And yes, I meant "baking"... Matt Goodman Columbus, Ohio
On Jun 7, 2014, at 1:38 AM, "tgregmrtn@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
Can I take a minute and try to put this all in
some sort of context?
First Matt asked:
"Inexperience question here.
My understanding regarding backing (baking?) is that it is intended to drive off the volatiles in the freshly applied paint. Is this correct?" Matt, yes it accelerates drying process by
evaporation of the chemical drying agents in the paint, Jerry Glow could
explain it better as he is a former auto body repairman. The same baking
techniques are used to do the same to prototype freight equipment, it is
the application that differs.
"Also, I believe I read somewhere that letting a freshly painted model sit
for several days (or longer) would accomplish the same thing - only
(obviously) slower...
Good thread. Matt Goodman Columbus, Ohio" That could be true but the heating process
makes the enamel dry harder quicker. As I have said I don't bake my brass in the
oven but I do in natural sunlight under supervision or under a 60 watt bulb
perhaps overnight in winter. If I want to bake solvent based enamels on
plastic I dry them in natural sunlight with extra supervision as the
combination of the solvents and the heat can soften
plastic
The Peter adds:
" I had been lead to believe that baking paint like Scalecoat, would
actually improve the adhesion of the paint to brass."
Not really, adhesion would improve if you do as
Schuyler and Mike mentions by lightly etching the surface chemically or with
"grit blasting"
"I know from experience that baked on lacquer and enamel paint resists scratching better. Pierre Oliver www.elgincarshops.com www.yarmouthmodelworks.com" True" enamel" by it's nature/name is expected
to be harder, the same with lacquer-based enamel, which would leave one to
believe it would resist scratching better.
Bruce writes:
"Matt,
Baking is only appropriate for enamel based paint." Wait! I have an issue with this statement and it follows
along with the use of the term, "Dulux Gold", Dulux is a brand not a
specific color and enamel is referenced to a hardened
surface paint not to a "base" of a paint. There are lacquer,
alkyd resin, or poly-vinyl acrylic or latex vehicle based enamel paints...
"There is a school of thought that says that it causes the paint
to "cure" or polymerize, which may well be true. Never ever bake plastic or any
metal that might melt (like some weights) and do not bake acrylic paints.
Baking an enamel paint job will allow you to move on to the next
application more rapidly.
Regards Bruce" I am not sure why you wouldn't bake an
acrylic/latex or poly vinyl acrylic paint as it would help the surface dry
harder and as the late owner (his name escapes me Greg K??? help me out
here Dennis) of ACUFLEX paint recommended you do exactly that because he
reminded me that, "acrylics are like Spandex and shrink to
fit..." He was right his paint went
on what seems to be "goby" and once the surface was heated it shrunk incredibly
tight to the surface. Wonderful stuff.
Schuyler
replies:
"Pierre is correct. When I have baked Scalecoat 1, the resulting finish is
harder, glossier, and more resistant to scratching than any other paint I've
used. Allowing paint to dry "until the odor is gone" works OK, but it will not
give you the same durability of finish. It will scratch more easily and wear on
grabs and other wear points."
Schuyler reinforces the point that baking
results in a harder, glossier and more scratch resistant finish and
testifies that Scalecoat 1 is the "one". No Contest here, I don't want to
start a "my doges better than your dog" thread,
The point is that heating the paint to a given
temperature and holding it there for a given period of time does 1.) gas off the
vehicle quicker, 2) promoting faster drying, 3) and enameling the surface
faster. In the case of acrylic paints it "sucks" the paint
tighter to the surface. An equally hard surface can be achieved in
time if allowed to simply air dry.
"Bruce offers "polymerize."
Maybe. I don't know if that's what it does or not. But whatever it does, it
works.
Schuyler" Greg Martin
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