Date   

Re: A day late and a dollar short

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Witt wrote:
"Yes, it is a Duryea underframe, but looking at the photo, I would agree with John that this is not a standard underframe as the outer two cross-bearers are much larger than the inner two and were not typical of those used on the many Duryea underframes under B&O box cars. The Duryea underframe for a 40-ft box car usually had four cross-bearers all of the same size."

I'll concede the first point, but the maddening thing about the Duryea cushion underframes is their variety.  I have doubts that there was any "standard" Duryea cushion underframe.


Ben Hom


Re: A day late and a dollar short

rwitt_2000
 

Yes, it is a Duryea underframe, but looking at the photo, I would agree with John that this is not a standard underframe as the outer two cross-bearers are much larger than the inner two and were not typical of those used on the many Duryea underframes under B&O box cars. The Duryea underframe for a 40-ft box car usually had four cross-bearers all of the same size.

Regards,

Bob Witt, Indianapolis, IN


---In STMFC@..., <b.hom@...> wrote :

John Barry wrote:
"Working on something else, I came across a picture of a Linde Box Tank http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/9/2/926272/55d377d1-88c4-4a63-8249-8c94b9f8d466-A28817.jpg
and was thinking of how to model what looked like a modified 1932 AAR car with strengthened underframe."

Look again - it's not a "strengthened" underframe!  It's a Duryea cushion underframe.  This photo provides a nice look of the spotting features: deep cross members; slightly extended draft gear, and the unique "lower" mounting of the brake components.  You can even make out the sliding center sill.

Ben Hom 


Re: A day late and a dollar short

Benjamin Hom
 

John Barry wrote:
"Working on something else, I came across a picture of a Linde Box Tank http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/9/2/926272/55d377d1-88c4-4a63-8249-8c94b9f8d466-A28817.jpg
and was thinking of how to model what looked like a modified 1932 AAR car with strengthened underframe."

Look again - it's not a "strengthened" underframe!  It's a Duryea cushion underframe.  This photo provides a nice look of the spotting features: deep cross members; slightly extended draft gear, and the unique "lower" mounting of the brake components.  You can even make out the sliding center sill.

Sunshine flyer from Jim Hayes' website:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun95a.pdf


Ben Hom


Re: Painting HO Scale Brass

Paul Hillman
 

I was told that it has to do with Scalecoat (maybe all other paints ?) having to pay an import fee to Texas for "toxic" materials? This is hearsay, but my hobby shop told me this. Scalecoat didn't pay the fee? He seemed to know all the details, but I'll go back and ask him again.
 
Paul Hillman
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 1:04 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Painting HO Scale Brass

 

<<All the other model railroad paint brands (Floquil, Polyscale, Testers, etc.) are or have been available in Texas hobby shops and Walthers and Micro-Mark have shipped these paints to Texas (via UPS or FedEx).  I've had no trouble getting Scalecoat sent here from out of state stores that carry it (Walthers excepted) or bringing it home from out-of-state myself (No guards at the Texas border stopping cars searching for bottles of Scalecoat.).  The Whistle Stop in OKC was where I most recently purchased some bottles of Scalecoat and he will ship the paint to Texas. >>

Which raises the question what does Weaver Models see in the Texas regs that in their minds distinguishes between Scalecoat I and the other paints where other shippers do not see the issue.

Curious . . .

Best regards,

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA

Charlie

Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 12:19 PM

To: STMFC@...

Subject: RE: [STMFC] Painting HO Scale Brass




<<Paul,
Order your Scalecoat direct. http://www.weavermodels.com/index.html>>

One could try that, but . . . . . .

http://www.weavermodels.com/page8.html, specifically states they can not ship to Texas, which was the original poster's (and his LHS owner's comment).

If any distributor/hobbyshop etc. is aware of the restriction, I doubt they would ship either - too much risk of running afoul of Texas law.

Wonder why Texas won't allow the import of these paints into Texas . . . .

Best regards,

Steve

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA



A day late and a dollar short

John Barry
 

Working on something else, I came across a picture of a Linde Box Tank  http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/9/2/926272/55d377d1-88c4-4a63-8249-8c94b9f8d466-A28817.jpg and was thinking of how to model what looked like a modified 1932 AAR car with strengthened underframe.  I was going to ask the advice of the group, but decided to check the archives first.  Neo is a bit frustrating, as I never did see the Linde posts that were part of the "Most needed car thread."  But Lester Breuer's request for truck help led me to most of my answers.  It listed both a kit, Sunshine 95.2, and a reference, RPC 14.  I happen to have the latter for the MP rebuilds, I should read the rest of the story . . . I did not see a response to Lester's truck inquiry, Lester, I hope you got an answer.  Having just read the Cryogenic Box article (Thank you Pat Wilder) I now have yet another reason to lament the passing of Martin Loften and the demise of Sunshine.  Now to put up the auto search for a 95.1 that will fit my era of 1944.


 
John Barry, wishing I'd had this awakening a decade or two earlier.


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


Re: ERIE 95000 series roofs was RE: Painting HO Scale Brass

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Ed.  I knew (and know now) that some of the ERIE’s cars were done this way, but didn’t think this was one of those series.  Models done this way attract attention, as they look so different than other cars in a train.

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2014 7:47 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: ERIE 95000 series roofs was RE: [STMFC] Painting HO Scale Brass

 

 

 

On Jun 8, 2014, at 1:42 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] wrote:



Likely black, originally, when built in 1942.  These had as you can see the small diamond.  Larger 6’ diamond were applied not long after.  When are you modeling?

 

Schuyler and Armand,

According to ACF paint specs in the bill of materials for lot 2288 (Erie 95000-95099), for new cars the roof seam caps were coated with black car cement while the rest of the roof (and running board) was unpainted galvanized steel. 

 

Sides & doors were Pittsburgh Carhide Brown. Black (car cement) applied to the u/f and ends. Black truck side frames. White stencils with white & black Erie monogram. 

Regards,

Ed Hawkins

 

 


Re: ERIE 95000 series roofs was RE: Painting HO Scale Brass

Schuyler Larrabee
 

If you look around on the ERIE/DL&W/EL section of the Fallen Flags site, there are a couple of diagram books available, and I believe you can find the diagram for this series of cars.  The diagram does say that the running boards and brake step are US Gypsum.

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2014 11:05 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: ERIE 95000 series roofs was RE: [STMFC] Painting HO Scale Brass

 


On Jun 8, 2014, at 9:31 PM, abrown@... [STMFC] wrote:

In the end photo, the brake step looks lighter-colored than the end. Was the step unpainted too? That would look neat on a model.

 

Al,
In the "B" end ACF builder's photo there's no doubt that the brake step of Erie 95000 was unpainted galvanized steel (U.S. Gypsum). The ACF bill of materials typically don't say much, if anything, about running boards and brake steps. So we're at the mercy of photos to use as a guide.

The collection of ACF bills of materials is available for review at the St. Louis Mercantile Library for cars built from 1931 through 1952 (lot numbers 1200 to about 3700). A few are missing, but the collection is largely complete for this range of time.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


June MRH heavy w/Group authors

Bill Welch
 

The June issue of Model Railroad Hobbyist has articles by three members of this group. John Golden grabbed the cover w/an article about modeling SAL 1937 design boxcars while Charlie Duckworth has an article on weathering freight cars. Also there is an article on using "weathering decals. Marty McGuirk caps it off with an article on revising his prototype CV layout that includes some nice freight car photos.


Way to go guys!


Bill Welch


Re: Influences

Eric Lombard
 

My first scratch built car, built about 1958-9 when I was 15 was inspired by John Allan - a couple of inches of the rear end of a passenger car mounted on a flat car with a deck full of "junk". Weathered, of course. No prototype, of course. I still have it. John's work inspired me off the plywood, away from the plastic, into a search for plans and photos, and into experiment. I have always thought of his efforts as novel and transformative, not only for me but for the hobby in general.

Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL


On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 11:23 AM, 'Eric Neubauer' eaneubauer@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 



As a humorous aside, my first scratch built car as a teenager was a hopper car made entirely out of balsa wood. It was so light, it wouldn't roll any distance at all on its Lindberg trucks, but it did better with a full load. I doubt if it lasted for long and probably looked hideous. Those were the days of blissful ignorance, but at least it was a step down the path.
 
Eric N.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Influences

 

  At a time when we were not spoiled by availability and existence of model railroad rolling stock,locomotives,structures,bridges,track etc. as we are today,a man named John Allen showed us that these items could be built inspiring modelers to higher standards .They may not have all been proto typically accurate but neither is a lot of RTR stuff today which we have to modify depending on how much of a stickler we are about prototype accuracy.

  He was a major influence in modeling methods and skills,he gave me the inspiration to start hand-laying track due to cost and appearance of commercial track available,also kit and scratch building.
  
   Alan



Re: Painting HO Scale Brass

Steve Haas
 

<<All the other model railroad paint brands (Floquil, Polyscale, Testers, etc.) are or have been available in Texas hobby shops and Walthers and Micro-Mark have shipped these paints to Texas (via UPS or FedEx).  I’ve had no trouble getting Scalecoat sent here from out of state stores that carry it (Walthers excepted) or bringing it home from out-of-state myself (No guards at the Texas border stopping cars searching for bottles of Scalecoat.).  The Whistle Stop in OKC was where I most recently purchased some bottles of Scalecoat and he will ship the paint to Texas. >>

 

 

Which raises the question what does Weaver Models see in the Texas regs that in their minds distinguishes between Scalecoat I and the other paints where other shippers do not see the issue.

 

Curious . . .

 

Best regards,

 

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA

 

 

 

 

 

 

Charlie

 

Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 12:19 PM

To: STMFC@...

Subject: RE: [STMFC] Painting HO Scale Brass

 




<<Paul,
Order your Scalecoat direct. http://www.weavermodels.com/index.html>>

 

One could try that, but . . . . . .

 

http://www.weavermodels.com/page8.html, specifically states they can not ship to Texas, which was the original poster’s (and his LHS owner’s comment).

 

If any distributor/hobbyshop etc. is aware of the restriction, I doubt they would ship either – too much risk of running afoul of Texas law.

 

Wonder why Texas won’t allow the import of these paints into Texas . . . .

 

Best regards,

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA



Re: ERIE 95000 series roofs

Ed Hawkins
 

On Jun 8, 2014, at 11:27 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:

Ed, would the underframe parts be painted before, or after, the floor was installed?
I've seen photos of new cars with unpainted floor boards (underneath) but I don't know
if this was a universal practice.
Tim,
I don't recall paint specs in bills of materials providing a specific sequence in which the process was to be accomplished. There were a lot of variables depending on the customer's requirements and the builder. I doubt there's a universal method. However, if the top of the underframe was to be painted or coated with car cement as was often the case, it had to be done prior to installing a floor.

An example is PRR X43 box cars by Greenville Steel Co. that had black car cement applied only to the top of the center sill, cover plates, and stringers. The rest of the underframe received black paint after application of a metal preservative.

Based on what I've seen in bills of materials, most commonly the underframe was either painted with the same freight car paint that was used on the body or was coated entirely with black car cement. It seems most practical to me for this step to be done prior to installing a floor.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Painting HO Scale Brass

Charles Morrill
 

All the other model railroad paint brands (Floquil, Polyscale, Testers, etc.) are or have been available in Texas hobby shops and Walthers and Micro-Mark have shipped these paints to Texas (via UPS or FedEx).  I’ve had no trouble getting Scalecoat sent here from out of state stores that carry it (Walthers excepted) or bringing it home from out-of-state myself (No guards at the Texas border stopping cars searching for bottles of Scalecoat.).  The Whistle Stop in OKC was where I most recently purchased some bottles of Scalecoat and he will ship the paint to Texas. 
Charlie
 

Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 12:19 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Painting HO Scale Brass
 


<<Paul,
Order your Scalecoat direct. http://www.weavermodels.com/index.html>>

 

One could try that, but . . . . . .

 

http://www.weavermodels.com/page8.html, specifically states they can not ship to Texas, which was the original poster’s (and his LHS owner’s comment).

 

If any distributor/hobbyshop etc. is aware of the restriction, I doubt they would ship either – too much risk of running afoul of Texas law.

 

Wonder why Texas won’t allow the import of these paints into Texas . . . .

 

Best regards,

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA


Re: Influences

John Barry
 

I'll be thunderstruck if any of you know my first influence, H.B. Campbell.  A neighbor down the street, he had built a plywood pacific spaghetti bowl layout in their laundry room.  Prototype?  RR Cab Forward, Pere Marquete Hudson, etc.  a runner's layout, but it set the hook and the 11 year old was fascinated enough to ask for an HO train set.  That Tyco set arrived for Christmas in 68 with a red & silver Santa Fe warbonnet Alco Century.   Warbonnet C-liners, E units, and others followed.  Little did I know . . .  In 86, I discovered the SFMO and attended my first convention in 87.  I learned a lot about what they did and didn't have and discovered the meaning of "FOOBIE".  The next 20 years were learning a little about a lot of the ATSF without paying too much attention to their competitors.  Gordon Basset, Stan Kistler, Ralph Marcus, and Richard Hendrickson all shaped how I looked at things Santa Fe.  All without thinking about all the interchange traffic.  Duh!  Somehow the light came on, and I discovered this group and the wealth of detail of the mosaic that makes up our rail system.  Tony Thompson and his Blog have been another influence, tying prototype accuracy of individual models to similar accuracy of fleet composition and operation. 

That brings me back to an earlier pair of  influences, Ken Allen, whom I helped build his proto-freelanced layout, and Bob Fink, on whose Northern Pacific I got my first taste of operations in the late 80s.  After a long spell of armchair modelling, in 2006, Eric Berman, whom I'd corresponded with but never met in person, introduced me to Paul Catapano and his Atlantic Inland.  DCC, TT&TO, and in Paul's words that "Four dimensional chess game."  So it has come full circle to produce realistic game pieces for that chess game that I enjoy.  And some day, one scenic detail will be a small wrought iron fence enclosing a locomotive with a 48 star flag flying from the gaff on the mast in HB Campbell park.  Some might find it strange to see a warbonnet diesel preserved at such an early date as Christmas of 44.  But I cann't think of a more appropriate place for that Tyco Century as it sure doesn't fit the rest of the scheme. . .


John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "'Eric Neubauer' eaneubauer@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 9, 2014 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Influences

 

As a humorous aside, my first scratch built car as a teenager was a hopper car made entirely out of balsa wood. It was so light, it wouldn't roll any distance at all on its Lindberg trucks, but it did better with a full load. I doubt if it lasted for long and probably looked hideous. Those were the days of blissful ignorance, but at least it was a step down the path.
 
Eric N.
 
 


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Influences

 
  At a time when we were not spoiled by availability and existence of model railroad rolling stock,locomotives,structures,bridges,track etc. as we are today,a man named John Allen showed us that these items could be built inspiring modelers to higher standards .They may not have all been proto typically accurate but neither is a lot of RTR stuff today which we have to modify depending on how much of a stickler we are about prototype accuracy.
  He was a major influence in modeling methods and skills,he gave me the inspiration to start hand-laying track due to cost and appearance of commercial track available,also kit and scratch building.
  
   Alan



Re: Painting HO Scale Brass

Steve Haas
 

<<Paul,
Order your Scalecoat direct. http://www.weavermodels.com/index.html>>

 

One could try that, but . . . . . .

 

http://www.weavermodels.com/page8.html, specifically states they can not ship to Texas, which was the original poster’s (and his LHS owner’s comment).

 

If any distributor/hobbyshop etc. is aware of the restriction, I doubt they would ship either – too much risk of running afoul of Texas law.

 

Wonder why Texas won’t allow the import of these paints into Texas . . . .

 

Best regards,

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie, WA


Re: Influences

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


As a humorous aside, my first scratch built car as a teenager was a hopper car made entirely out of balsa wood. It was so light, it wouldn't roll any distance at all on its Lindberg trucks, but it did better with a full load. I doubt if it lasted for long and probably looked hideous. Those were the days of blissful ignorance, but at least it was a step down the path.
 
Eric N.
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Influences

 

  At a time when we were not spoiled by availability and existence of model railroad rolling stock,locomotives,structures,bridges,track etc. as we are today,a man named John Allen showed us that these items could be built inspiring modelers to higher standards .They may not have all been proto typically accurate but neither is a lot of RTR stuff today which we have to modify depending on how much of a stickler we are about prototype accuracy.

  He was a major influence in modeling methods and skills,he gave me the inspiration to start hand-laying track due to cost and appearance of commercial track available,also kit and scratch building.
  
   Alan


Re: Influences

albyrno
 

  At a time when we were not spoiled by availability and existence of model railroad rolling stock,locomotives,structures,bridges,track etc. as we are today,a man named John Allen showed us that these items could be built inspiring modelers to higher standards .They may not have all been proto typically accurate but neither is a lot of RTR stuff today which we have to modify depending on how much of a stickler we are about prototype accuracy.
  He was a major influence in modeling methods and skills,he gave me the inspiration to start hand-laying track due to cost and appearance of commercial track available,also kit and scratch building.
  
   Alan


Re: Painting HO Scale Brass

riverman_vt@...
 

Hi Paul,

 

    Since you mention driving to Oklahoma for Scalecoat might I suggest a visit to Whistle Stop Trains
at 1313 West Britton Rd. in Oklahoma City. That is Ed Birch's operation and I expect you would find him

as good to work with as a number of us have over the years. I have never met Ed but have purchased a

number of items from him over the years and always been satisfied in doing so. Another New England

raised friend who lived in nearby Shawnee for some years before retirement was always very pleased with

the service received there as well. Things have reached the point where good hobby shops are hard to find.

Don't know what the problem is with shipping Scalecoat to Texas but you might also trying going to

Walthers or direct to Scalecoat for it to see if they can overcome the issues. I'm wondering if Texas is

the problem or if it might be new postal regulations. If teh latter just use UPS....as those of us who

participate in shooting sports now have to for live ammunition as well.

 

Good luck, Don Valentine


Re: X29 ends - PMM

frograbbit602
 

Ben Thank You for the X29 truck information.  Lester Breuer


Re: ERIE 95000 series roofs

al_brown03
 

The SAL Mechanical Department "Standard Practice Circular F-1", dated 10/10/48 (reprinted by the ACL & SAL HS), directs that the underframes of most freight cars be given "one coat of car cement". Only for flat cars is any distinction made between the steel underframe and woodwork: "complete body and underframe not including woodwork to be painted with one coat of car cement". I've heard for several roads that undersides of house-car floors weren't to be painted, but I think the following conclusions may be drawn: (1) for underside woodwork to be unpainted *wasn't* universal practice; and (2) whatever color the underside was painted (or wasn't), in service it attracted a lot of "weathering".

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: ERIE 95000 series roofs

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed, would the underframe parts be painted before, or after, the floor was installed?
I've seen photos of new cars with unpainted floor boards (underneath) but I don't know
if this was a universal practice.

Tim O'Connor

Sides & doors were Pittsburgh Carhide Brown. Black (car cement) applied to the u/f and ends. Black truck side frames. White stencils with white & black Erie monogram.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

68341 - 68360 of 193492