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Re: FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650
MDelvec952
Yes, you hit the scene pretty much on the head. This is West 1st Street in Oswego and the date range in this series of negs is 1918. That SL&N sign appears in photos taken a few years before as well.
While the collection is rich in imagery, there is very little information with it other than the occasional negative that contains a location or date. The photographer's notebooks were not included. Too, there were simultaneous photos being taken by any of the three photographers at times, so the sequential negative numbers sometimes bounce around between locations.
....Mike Del Vecchio
-----Original Message----- From: blindog@... [STMFC] To: STMFC Sent: Mon, Jun 23, 2014 6:10 pm Subject: Re: [STMFC] FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650 For what it's worth, a sign near the intersection in pic # C4649 says SL&N R R / LIMITED CARS / STOP HERE. Google didn't give me any info on a railroad or interurban named SL&N. The cross street appears to be named MURRAY ST, and the main is W. FIRST ST. West First runs alongside a river, and there appears to be a lock in the river in picture C4647. Also, in C4648 a torn paper stapled to a pole has the number 1915 on it. Could be the year, or could an address. Might be a flyer for the county fair.
There is a google hit for an E. Sayer & Son Grocery in Oswego, New York. Started in 1973 by Edward Sayer, his grandson Frank ran the business in later years. And sure enough, there is a Murray Street that intersects West First Street alongside the Oswego River, right at a bend in West First. Now we backtrack to looking for interurban railroads that served the area and find a Syracuse Lake Shore & Northern, which is likely the SL&N on the sign. A Wiki page says the SL&N was formed in 1905 and in 1913 merged with two other lines to form the Empire United Railways, which in 1916 was renamed the Empire State Railroad. It was abandoned in 1931. So I'm pretty sure the photo was taken in Oswego, New York, but exactly when I can't say. Hopefully Mr. Larrabee will forward this to Mr. McKnight. Fun fun Scott Chatfield
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Re: FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650
Michael Aufderheide
Scott,
Take a look at Google street view. The building is still there! Eureka!
Mike Aufderheide
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Re: FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)
Steve Haas
<<As to why it’s there on an team track? Because a lot of freight was delivered to team tracks and carted, wagonned, drayed, or otherwise carried away to a location not directly served by rails. Someone (perhaps on another list) suggested that the plant in the background (which somebody should be able to use to locate this picture) was perhaps a brewery or something else that might use grain. I doubt that this carload was intended to go to that location, because that industry is certainly large enough to have had its own sidings.>>
Spotting the damaged car on the team track might have provided better access to the photographer asked to document the damage to the car.
Best regards,
Steve Haas Snoqualmie, WA
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Re: FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650
D. Scott Chatfield
For what it's worth, a sign near the intersection in pic # C4649 says SL&N R R / LIMITED CARS / STOP HERE. Google didn't give me any info on a railroad or interurban named SL&N. The cross street appears to be named MURRAY ST, and the main is W. FIRST ST. West First runs alongside a river, and there appears to be a lock in the river in picture C4647. Also, in C4648 a torn paper stapled to a pole has the number 1915 on it. Could be the year, or could an address. Might be a flyer for the county fair.
There is a google hit for an E. Sayer & Son Grocery in Oswego, New York. Started in 1973 by Edward Sayer, his grandson Frank ran the business in later years. And sure enough, there is a Murray Street that intersects West First Street alongside the Oswego River, right at a bend in West First. Now we backtrack to looking for interurban railroads that served the area and find a Syracuse Lake Shore & Northern, which is likely the SL&N on the sign. A Wiki page says the SL&N was formed in 1905 and in 1913 merged with two other lines to form the Empire United Railways, which in 1916 was renamed the Empire State Railroad. It was abandoned in 1931. So I'm pretty sure the photo was taken in Oswego, New York, but exactly when I can't say. Hopefully Mr. Larrabee will forward this to Mr. McKnight. Fun fun Scott Chatfield
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Re: FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)
Dennis the only railroad I found was the Shepaug, Litchfield & Northern http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepaug,_Litchfield_and_Northern_Railroad
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
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Re: RI 262000 Series Auto Boxcars
Allan Smith
Thanks that was very informative. Al
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Re: FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)
Dennis Storzek
Thanks Doug. I belatedly see that in the second photo the other side of the same sign is visible at the left edge of the image, easily readable. One would think in DL&W territory, with the letters S and L, that the words Scranton and Lackawanna would bring something up on Google; they do, but none of the predecessors of the Northern Electric seem to have the right initials. I'm going to have to dig out my copy of Hilton & Drew's "The Interurban Electric Railway In America".
Dennis Storzek
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Re: FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)
Dennis, appears to read SL&NRR
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
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Re: FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)
Dennis Storzek
You guys are too fixated on the freight cars :-) It's obvious from the composition of the photos that they are NOT the main subject, the streetscape is. IF they were taken in response to an accident, the issue was likely sight lines being blocked by the cars.
Can anyone read the initials of the interurban company on the car stop sign that states that "limited cars stop here"? And no, the Soo Line did not use brake steps, on anything, until the first of the AAR standard cars arrived in 1936. On their cars, the pawl and ratchet mechanism was always combined with the upper brake staff bracket. Dennis Storzek
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Re: RI 262000 Series Auto Boxcars
Al
The model is a resin kit made by Rocket Express. Only changes from the model is I used Westerfield RI decals for the reporting marks. Go to www.rocketexpress.biz to purchase one. They make both versions of this car one with the automobile end door and one without. Charlie Duckworth
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Re: Steamtown Images
Schuyler Larrabee
I agree with and can confirm everything that Mike’s written below. And I agree that the erielack list is a sensible place to circulate these images on a regular basis, for as he said, there is a large number of relative experts on the DL&W (and ERIE and EL) on that list. There have been a lot of location IDs generated from the posting of the images, and from time to time when I’ve posted the links to specific photos that include freight cars for the amusement and pleasure of the STMFC Community, there has been worthwhile information generated which I have sent to Pat to add to the documentation of the images.
Schuyler
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 11:06 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Steamtown Images
-----Original Message-----
Thanks, Ray... I wonder that it appears as if the NPS has selected the EL list as a publication site. Seams a bit odd to me. Nothing against the EL, but my experience is that government organizations generally curate and make available their holdings via their own publication process. I have emailed the curator at Steamtown whose name is on the photos to see if there is a way to directly access the collection. Also pinged my daughter who is an NPS ranger at Grand Canyon to see if she can find out. Eric Eric Lombard Homewood, IL
On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
>>Can someone share a URL for direct access the Steamtown image collection? Hi Eric,
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FW: FW: Steamtown Images
Schuyler Larrabee
In response to Eric’s request this AM, I emailed Richard McKnight to ask him how I could inform the STMFC community on how to link to these images. His reply is below. In the meantime I see that some have found the links to the Railfan.net site which also has accumulated all these images. But you can read below what Richard said to me in reply to my query.
Schuyler
From: McKnight, Richard
Schuyler,
I really do not know how to link to the stuff on the EL discussion list. It is not a perfect system, but does allow for me to get a lot of comments from various sources and fix a lot of "unknown locations".
I am starting to post on a special National Park Service digital library site called NPSFocus. It can be accessed at:
As time permits, I hope to post all our images on this site. You will need to put in search parameters to pull up information on Steamtown. If you type in "Steamtown" in your search parameters you will get all Steamtown images. If you type in "010.06.01" you will get the complete A-Series that I posted. If you type in "010.06.03" you will get some of the C series, but not all.
Posting images on this site is labor intensive and I just do not have enough time in a day. Right now I am responding to you from a vacation house at the Outer Banks. Also, calling up information using NPSFocus does not work right sometimes.
So give NPSFocus a try. Let me know if I may be of further assistance.
Pat
On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote: Hi Pat,
I have been forwarding the links to some of the DL&W images that contain freight cars to the Steam Freight Cars Yahoo list. They are very much appreciated and generate some very informative responses.
What can I tell Eric, below, and the others on that list, as to how to subscribe to the feeds?
I’d rather get the information from you and distribute it to the STMFC list that simply give them all your address so you’d end up, perhaps, swamped with requests. But if that’s the best technique, well, that’s what I’ll do. Please let me know.
Schuyler
Can someone share a URL for direct access the Steamtown image collection? Probably I missed something but could not find a link on the Steamtown website.
-- Patrick McKnight Historian/Archivist Steamtown NHS 150 S. Washington Avenue Scranton, PA
Phone: 570-340-5193 Cell: 570-862-6321 FAX: 570-340-5222
The employees of the National Park Service care for special places that are the heritage of all Americans. Since its inception in 1916, the National Park Service has been dedicated to the preservation and management of this country's outstanding natural, historical, and recreational resources.
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Re: FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)
Schuyler Larrabee
Charlie, there’s not really any mystery to this. The DL&W retained a professional photographer to take photos all the time. The SP car has a broken-through end. This is probably documentation of that fact, as once the car was emptied, the DL&W would be required to fix it. The cost of the repair would be borne by the SP. This gave them incontrovertible proof of the extent of the repair.
In this same series is a shot of a road crossing. It’s likely that the photo of the crossing was taken to show that the crossing was well marked and whoever lost their wagon or horse or maybe their life at this crossing should have known to “Watch out for the train.” It’s like the signs on the UP in Nebraska these days: “Trains pass this crossing at speeds in excess of 90 miles per hour.”
As to why it’s there on an team track? Because a lot of freight was delivered to team tracks and carted, wagonned, drayed, or otherwise carried away to a location not directly served by rails. Someone (perhaps on another list) suggested that the plant in the background (which somebody should be able to use to locate this picture) was perhaps a brewery or something else that might use grain. I doubt that this carload was intended to go to that location, because that industry is certainly large enough to have had its own sidings.
Schuyler
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 6:19 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)
There is some mystery there. Why would a car load of grain or whatever be
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Re: Steamtown Images
MDelvec952
All, The Steamtown collection is a great resource, and it's huge. The goal is to make the entire collection public somehow. There is an NPS portal through which some of the images are being added, and when it's ready to go public it will be announced. The person most responsible for the collection, and has done an incredible job or organizing the volunteers and interns who have scanned more than 20k glass-plate-negatives, and cataloging more than an acre of file boxes, more than 100,000 rolled maps and drawings, years of train dispatcher sheets, is Steamtown historian Pat McKnight, at Pat_McKnight@.... This project that Pat has led and cultivated for several years is historically priceless. And collections have attracted other collections which has created perhaps the biggest accumulation of late 19th and early 20th Century business records available. The personal coorespondence of Sam Sloan and William Truesdale are among the DL&W stuff. Sloan had been president, officer or principle of more than 30 railroads during his life, from the Lackawanna in the East to a component of the Green Bay & Western. Sloan, Iowa, was named for him. If ever there was a subject for book-like treatise. Please don't think or perpetuate any thinking that NPS has chosen the EL group as an outlet. Officially, the NPS will make the collection public. The EL list contains the largest concentration of Lackawanna and Erie historians and former employees available, so Historian McKnight on his own time shares five images daily so that this body of experts can opine and help identify the locations of the images. The feedback that comes from the list is added to the NPS database and spread sheets, information that will outlast all of us. The images are primarily to document construction or injury scenes, so the inclusion of freight equipment is usually incidental unless the injury occurred on the equipment. While it's not currently easy to handle requests for images, be patient, as public display of this archive is a high priority. The Erielack archive link posted in another note should whet the whistle for those interested in the 1908-WWI-era freight cars. Hope this helps ....Mike Del Vecchio President, Tri-State Chapter NRHS (one of the groups supplying volunteers and a big part of the DL&W archive material now housed at Steamtown)
-----Original Message----- From: Eric Lombard elombard@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> To: STMFC Sent: Sun, Jun 22, 2014 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [STMFC] Steamtown Images Thanks, Ray... I wonder that it appears as if the NPS has selected the EL list as a publication site. Seams a bit odd to me. Nothing against the EL, but my experience is that government organizations generally curate and make available their holdings via their own publication process. I have emailed the curator at Steamtown whose name is on the photos to see if there is a way to directly access the collection. Also pinged my daughter who is an NPS ranger at Grand Canyon to see if she can find out. Eric
Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Re: Steamtown Images
Ray Breyer
From: Eric Lombard elombard@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>; To: ; Subject: Re: [STMFC] Steamtown Images Sent: Sun, Jun 22, 2014 11:04:39 PM
On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Re: FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)
Michael Aufderheide
It might also be that the boxcar happened to be at the site of a railroad/auto or wagon accident. I've seen many great photos of interesting, but unremarkable, places thanks to legal dept. photographers.
Mike Aufderheide
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Re: The Little Giant newsletter
Brad: I just picked up this issue last month from the P&LE society. They still have them in stock. Paid by mail and got it in a few weeks. BTW, it’s P&LE prototype boxcars, not NYC.
Brian J. Carlson, P.E. Cheektowaga, NY
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 7:52 PM To: STMFC@...; nyc-modeler@... Subject: [STMFC] The Little Giant newsletter
Does anyone have an extra copy of Vol 4 #2,3&4 detailing NYC boxcars?
Thanks,
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Re: FW: (erielack) Steamtown Images--June 21, 2014 (C4646 thru C4650)
Charlie that appears to be a grain elevator or feed mill behind the car. As there are a few grain door boards on the ground near the ladder, I suspect they are checking the contents of the load. Grain testing was a common practice, checking for quality, moisture content, etc. The grain doors do not complete close the opening, because the load weighted out before cubing out a 40’ car. Boxcars commonly had lines marked on the interior near the door showing the load limit for different types of grain.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
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RI 262000 Series Auto Boxcars
Allan Smith
I am new to this group. I was going thru the pictures of model freight cars and ran across a photo of RI 262574. I have conductors listed from the Sierra RR from 1952 & 1954. I am trying to model some of the cars from those lists for my RR. RI 262241 is one of the cars on the list. The photo says MRH article 005 tr_duck Mar 02. Can you tell me what that references and how the model was made? Thanks Al Smith
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Re: Steamtown Images
Thanks for that information, Brian.
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