Date   

Re: USRA Hoppers

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


LNE is easy ... they didn't have any. Neither did LV unless you count the ephemeral series that went to B&O/M&K shortly after delivery. Both had generally similar cars built before USRA designs were created.
 
RDG 73000 weighed 2-55 has an Ajax power handbrake I think. Painted the typical scheme with roman "READING" and Americas Largest Anthracite Carrier logo. 73650 and 74158 appear similar. Air brakes on 73000,73650 have been upgraded.
 
Eric N.
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 10:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] USRA Hoppers

 

Hi, all - 


I'm looking for some information as to when specific roads upgraded their USRA hoppers to AB Brakes, or handbrakes. The roads I'm interested in are:

B&O
CNJ
CRP
D&H
DL&W
LNE
LV
NYC
RDG


I'm focused on 1947 right now.


Thanks!


Randy

--

Randy Hammill

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954 | New Britain Station



Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

genegreen1942@...
 

In general the reporting marks "USA" instead of "USAX" identified US Army freight cars intended for or actually in foreign service.  Foreign service usually meant Korea or Germany but some cars and locomotives in the inventory could have the gauge widened to 60 or 66 inches which might suggest to some the possibility of use in countries other than those in western Europe (Spain excluded) or Korea.

The car in the photo appears very similar to the car illustrated on page 5-30 of Department of the Army Technical Manual (TM) 55-208 dated October 1976 which car was described as "Railway car, flat, depressed center, 56 1/2 (143.51 cm), 60 (152.40 cm) and 66 inch (167.64 cm) gages, 70 ton (63 metric ton), 12 wheel, foreign service."

The Department of Defense did not use the reporting marks in most internal documents so, unless you can get close enough to the car to find and read the Federal or National Stock Number, you can't connect the contents of TM 55-208 with contents of the ORER, if indeed the ORER is even applicable.

Gene the insomniac Green


odd US military depressed center flat car

spsalso
 

Well, it's being odd to me, so I'm submitting it here for comments.  Here's a link:



http://en.valka.cz/files/tank_t43_zd_418.jpg



The reporting mark is "USA 499051".  The photo was most likely taken between 1953 and 1956.  The tank is a T43E1, later an M103.


I'm puzzled that it's not "USAX" instead of "USA".  And I'm puzzled that the car doesn't show up in the ORER, at least in 1950 and 1956.  Interestingly, the car number is quite similar to the NYC series for flats.


So, what is it?  And does it have any siblings?


Any and all assistance will be appreciated,



Ed


Edward Sutorik



USRA Hoppers

rhammill
 

Hi, all - 


I'm looking for some information as to when specific roads upgraded their USRA hoppers to AB Brakes, or handbrakes. The roads I'm interested in are:

B&O
CNJ
CRP
D&H
DL&W
LNE
LV
NYC
RDG


I'm focused on 1947 right now.


Thanks!


Randy

--

Randy Hammill

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954 | New Britain Station



Re: Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I don’t know if there is an EL group, an Erie Lackawanna group on Yahoo.  Probably, given the vast array of groups out there.  But what I suggested to John is that he might want to be on the “erieclack” list, which is NOT a Yahoo list.  It’s hosted by Railfan.net.  it is a less-rigorously managed list than the STMFC (no complaints, Mike!) and covers ERIE, DL&W and EL.  There’s a tilt toward EL, but as I said to John, I have a delete key.  it’s moderately active, probably 20 posts per day.  It’s the source of the daily 5-shots of DL&W historical photos that I have, from time to time, forwarded links for when there is steam era freight equipment in the pictures.  To subscribe:

 

Subscribing to the list is easy! Simply send an E-mail to majordomo@..., and in the BODY of the message, type in:

      subscribe erielack yourname@...

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 8:16 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting

 

 

A little clarification.

 

Schuyler e-mailed me and asked what I meant by the moribund Erie group.  Apparently there are two groups here, the one I belong to is the Erie Railroad Collector and Modeler group.  Is there also an EL group here???  I think I didn't join that one because I am not very interested in the Erie after the 1960 merger.  I think that was the death knell for the Erie and just postponed its demise until CONRAIL adsorbed the EL.  I say this in spite of the fact that one of my uncles worked for the Erie and one for the Lackawanna, so when the merger occurred it gave me the opportunity for a cab ride (I blew the horn for the grade crossings) at the age of 12, circa 1961 or so.

 

-- John


Re: Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting

Schuyler Larrabee
 

That is correct on both counts.  After’46, the ERIE seemed to chase down all the small diamond cars and repaint them, in some cases repainting ONLY the diamond.  There are photos of small-diamonded house cars after, say, 1948, but not very many.

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 8:21 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting

 

 

P.S.  I forgot to mention, I have a lettering diagram for Erie Auto Box cars which shows the change to the yellow diamond on 1/17/1944 and the change to the white 6' diamond on 12/17/1946 (diagram 152-12-368).  I would assume that the change occurred for the regular boxcars around the same dates.

 

-- John


Re: Re PFE WOOD REFER UNDERFRAMES

Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff wrote:

As Bruce pointed out, the Tichy underframe is an R-40. The "built-up" underferames of this type came in both 30-ton and 40-ton sizes, according to Tony's PFE articles in RMC. I used Tichy parts to convert some of my RC PFE cars that actually needed the 30-ton underframes because it is the only thing available. The Tichy parts are available separately from their kits as a floor and underframe.


       As Bruce Smith accurately stated, the built-up and Bettendorf underframes are distinctly different, and yes, the Tichy one is intended as a 40-ton built-up version. But in fact, the differences between 30-ton and 40-ton versions of this underframe are MINUTE in the extreme. The 40-ton cover plate on the bolster is a little wider, the plate thickness in the center sill is slightly greater, and there are little corner reinforcements between the center sill and bolster which are hard to see even in a close-up view. I fully support the idea that the Tichy part can be used for either 30- or 40-ton cars, and few if any could tell the difference even if judging in a model contest.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting

John Sykes III
 

P.S.  I forgot to mention, I have a lettering diagram for Erie Auto Box cars which shows the change to the yellow diamond on 1/17/1944 and the change to the white 6' diamond on 12/17/1946 (diagram 152-12-368).  I would assume that the change occurred for the regular boxcars around the same dates.


-- John


Re: Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting

John Sykes III
 

A little clarification.


Schuyler e-mailed me and asked what I meant by the moribund Erie group.  Apparently there are two groups here, the one I belong to is the Erie Railroad Collector and Modeler group.  Is there also an EL group here???  I think I didn't join that one because I am not very interested in the Erie after the 1960 merger.  I think that was the death knell for the Erie and just postponed its demise until CONRAIL adsorbed the EL.  I say this in spite of the fact that one of my uncles worked for the Erie and one for the Lackawanna, so when the merger occurred it gave me the opportunity for a cab ride (I blew the horn for the grade crossings) at the age of 12, circa 1961 or so.


-- John


Re: Refrigerator cars

lstt100
 

I'll add to Guy's reply.

Prior to ICC Service Order 104, the ICC issued Service Order 95 on Nov 9, 1942 appointing an agent of the ICC to control movement of refrigerator cars and created an advisory committee.  It authorized the agent of the ICC, when necessary, to direct the distribution of all refrigerator cars without regard to ownership or assignment.

ICC Service Order 104 also made the order "permissive as applying to "carriers" and mandatory as applying to "shippers".  ICC Service Order 104 became mandatory on Sept 1, 1943.  It was further modified on Aug 4, 1945, if available, it required use of any ownership reefers for westbound loading to all points west of eastern boundaries of New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana and also allowed loading from Utah to California or Nevada and from Washington to California.

ICC Service Order 104 expired on June 30, 1949 and was covered by specific tariffs after this date.

Dan Holbrook


Re: Refrigerator cars

Guy Wilber
 

Tony Thompson wrote:
 
"interesting, but remember that ALL reefer owners were obliged to let reefers run freely instead of being returned to owners, and that reefers could be substituted anywhere for box cars (at a ratio of 3 to 2, IIRC), due to wartime ne eds, until 1948. So this was not a Santa Fe decision alone. I am not sure when this rule was instituted, for those early-war-period modelers."
 
 
ICC Service Order 104, first issued on January 19, 1943, though there were subsequent amendments as well as complete new orders covering the use of refrigerator cars:   "Railroads transporting west-bound transcontinental shipments, in carloads, destined to points in the States of California, Idaho, Arizona, Nevada and Utah may, at their option, furnish and transport not more than three refrigerator cars of Pacific Fruit Express or Santa Fe Refrigerator Dispatch ownership in lieu of each boxcar ordered subject to the carload minimum weight which would have applied if the shipment had been loaded in a boxcar." 
 
 
Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: Refrigerator cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

And, Gene, they frequently were forwarded to the ERIE for points east, particularly NYC.  For years, the ERIE carried more fruit and produce to NYC than the other obvious choices.  Faster service, fewer locations where things were  switched.

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 6:41 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Refrigerator cars

 

 

Gene Green wrote:

 

Would long strings of PFE refrigerator cars or even whole trains of PFE reefers have continued off the UP at Omaha and onto the C&NW to Chicago?

 

   Yes, certainly in harvest season.

 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history

 

 

 


Re: Refrigerator cars

Tony Thompson
 

Gene Green wrote:

Would long strings of PFE refrigerator cars or even whole trains of PFE reefers have continued off the UP at Omaha and onto the C&NW to Chicago?

   Yes, certainly in harvest season.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Refrigerator cars

Tony Thompson
 

John Barry wrote:

Santa Fe instructions for LCL called for use of MTY reefers on many routes.  They are available at http://www.atsfrr.org/resources/KJordan/LCL1946.pdf  This allowed backhauls with loads of otherwise empty reefers and lowered the need for box cars.

    interesting, but remember that ALL reefer owners were obliged to let reefers run freely instead of being returned to owners, and that reefers could be substituted anywhere for box cars (at a ratio of 3 to 2, IIRC), due to wartime needs, until 1948. So this was not a Santa Fe decision alone. I am not sure when this rule was instituted, for those early-war-period modelers.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Milwaukee Road SS/Auto boxcar door and half

Rosalie and Bob Deis
 

Hi Brad by chance do you have any extra decal sets left from Jerry Glow for the Milwaukee auto boxcar? Can you supply the information used for these decals? These are not listed on his website that I could find. Thank you
Robert Deis
driver10@...


Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting

John Sykes III
 

Cross-posted from the moribund Erie group.

 

HELP!!!  I need some help from experts the likes of Paul T., Ted C., George E. or Larry DY.

 

I just got some Erie boxcars off e-bay (some haven't even arrived yet), and already I am planning on modifying them!  I have a lot of detail information from the Erie equipment diagrams I have, but I don't have P&LD drawings.

 

These questions are all predicated on the lack of color overhead shots of these cars online or in the few books I have.

 

The first question I had pertained to the 78500 series, but I found an Innovative Model Works 1937-style boxcar I bought some time ago that had a set of Speedwitch decals with Teds painting directions in with it, so that issue is solved.  Ted recommended SCII Oxide red, which is what I used, and makes this car a lot lighter than the Intermountain and Atlas models.  My memory from the late 1950's and early 1960's is of a more maroon red, close to SCII caboose red (originally called D&H caboose red).  What's the consensus here?

 

I have some of the 8200-82499 ACF boxcars on hand and on order.  The earlier cars had Murphy carbon steel roofs and the latter bunch had Murphy galvanized steel roofs.  The cars I have already received (Intermountain) have red roofs, but the numbers are from the galvanized series.  So, were these roofs painted red, black or left as bare galvanizing?

 

Same question as above for the 82500-83199 cars (red, black or unpainted galvanized?).  I think this whole series got the Murphy galvanized roofs.  But some had Apex roofwalks and some the USGs.

 

I have some USG diamond tread roofwalks on hand and more on order, so with the various brake wheels, Apex roofwalks and Viking roofs I already have I am covered there.

 

All the cars came with ends painted black.  Is this correct?

 

On the roof subject again, if the galvanized roofs were painted black, was it overall black (with or without boxcar red overspray on the sides?), or were just the roof seams painted black (actually black roof cement for waterproofing)?  Also, were the roofwalks painted or left bare? (they were also galvanized)

 

Finally, I ordered a Intermountain PS-1 boxcar, without noticing that the car number is higher than the range of Erie cars (84000-84009 -- Intermountain model is 84042?!?!?).  Other than trying to renumber it correctly and adding the cushioned couplers, what other alternatives are there?  I double checked a 1958 ORER and there are no Erie boxcars in the 8404x series at all.  I will have to renumber this car.  However, since the Speedwitch decal set has extra Erie-style numbers, that shouldn't be a problem.  Oh, yeah, I have a new way of removing the factory lettering (using Turtle Wax red Rubbing Compound -- it even leaves the surface glossy & ready to decal).


P.S.  I am modeling the PRR in the 1953-1956 timeframe.  Starting date is flexible but ending date is fixed by the closing of the EBT in March 1956 (I am doing the Middle Division w/interchange with the EBT and Erie), so mid-1950's paint scheme is what I want.

 

-- John


Re: Refrigerator cars

John Barry
 

Santa Fe instructions for LCL called for use of MTY reefers on many routes.  They are available at http://www.atsfrr.org/resources/KJordan/LCL1946.pdf  This allowed backhauls with loads of otherwise empty reefers and lowered the need for box cars.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "genegreen1942@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 9:02 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Refrigerator cars

 
A film on YouTube showed about a half dozen refrigerator cars at the head of a string of cars being pulled from an LCL facility.  Would those cars have likely been loaded as refrigerator cars or as ersatz box cars?

Would long strings of PFE refrigerator cars or even whole trains of PFE reefers have continued off the UP at Omaha and onto the C&NW to Chicago?

Gene Green



Re: Refrigerator cars

genegreen1942@...
 

Bob,
See Rolling the Freight on the Chicago & North Western System - American Railroad in 1947 - WDTVLIVE42

 

 


Re: Refrigerator cars

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Gene -


 Do you recall the name of the film or do you have the YouTube link?


Thanks.


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Refrigerator cars

Rob & Bev Manley
 

Gene,

I remember about the time the Tichy PFE reefer came out Bob Hundaman said that he remembered long strings of them being pulled into Blue Island, Ilinois behind Rock Island R-67s.

 

Rob Manley

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 11:03 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Refrigerator cars

 

 

A film on YouTube showed about a half dozen refrigerator cars at the head of a string of cars being pulled from an LCL facility.  Would those cars have likely been loaded as refrigerator cars or as ersatz box cars?

 

Would long strings of PFE refrigerator cars or even whole trains of PFE reefers have continued off the UP at Omaha and onto the C&NW to Chicago?

 

Gene Green

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