Date   

Re: "Monon Route" GARX reefer

Michael Aufderheide
 

Bill,

 

Since no one has chimed in on this, I will tell you what little I know about this.  I've collected Monon photos for about 15 years and have never come across photos of the cars you are asking about.  In fact the only photos of Monon reefers I have ever seen were in company ice service from the '40s & '50s.  Until now I had not heard of the decal set you mention.   There was an Athearn (Bev Bel?) car with lettering that may have been inspired by your set.  It has the same road number and even a curved builder's stencil.  This model also has a "MONON ROUTE" losenge herald that was used on freight cars until about 1910.

 

The Monon had two groups of their own reefers, but both pre-date the decal date you have, were owned by the railroad and would have been lettered C.I.L.  

 

Having said that, I have found Champ's sets to to be accurate, if not always exactly to scale.  They even had a set to letter the Monon's 6(!) company service tank cars.  So there may have been a car that the set represents.

 

Regards,

 

Mike Aufderheide


Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

spsalso
 

Re: the tank

I believe that, at the time of the photo, the tank was called a T43E1.  They were built in 1953-1954.  They were re-classified M103's in April 1956.  I have this belief because:

The lettering on the turret says "U. S. Army Ordnance".  And there's no star.  So I think this was a photo of a tank still in un-assigned service.  Hence it's unlikely to have gotten to M103 status.  Also, the photo is not a classic railfan type shot.  I looks to me very much like an "official" shot of a new-ish tank.  And that could explain how the turret got swung around for the shot--something easy to do if you are in the in-crowd.

And thus I would place the photo between 1953 and 1956.



Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Pressed Steel Car

frograbbit602
 

Hello Don,
No advantage, only the enjoyment of the build.  I enjoy the build and detailing  of a plastic car just as a resin car.  I find if a plastic car is correct and detailed to the same level as a resin car once weathered  and placed side by side on my railroad, a majority of modelers when looking at the cars can not tell me which is the plastic or resin car.  As for the F&C CP "mini" box it was in inventory and had reached the top of the build list.
Lester  Breuer


Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

John Barry
 

Gene,

Thank you for providing a reference to document what I have observed over the last 50 years.  Photos of WWII equipment so marked abound with stuff moving to Europe and never listed in the domestic ORER.  The flat is suspiciously similar to the AHM/Rocco that I received two of circa 1968.  Perhaps it DID have a prototype after all.  And I did see versions of same for sale in Europe with European buffers and couplers.  
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "genegreen1942@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 12:42 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

 
In general the reporting marks "USA" instead of "USAX" identified US Army freight cars intended for or actually in foreign service.  Foreign service usually meant Korea or Germany but some cars and locomotives in the inventory could have the gauge widened to 60 or 66 inches which might suggest to some the possibility of use in countries other than those in western Europe (Spain excluded) or Korea.

The car in the photo appears very similar to the car illustrated on page 5-30 of Department of the Army Technical Manual (TM) 55-208 dated October 1976 which car was described as "Railway car, flat, depressed center, 56 1/2 (143.51 cm), 60 (152.40 cm) and 66 inch (167.64 cm) gages, 70 ton (63 metric ton), 12 wheel, foreign service."

The Department of Defense did not use the reporting marks in most internal documents so, unless you can get close enough to the car to find and read the Federal or National Stock Number, you can't connect the contents of TM 55-208 with contents of the ORER, if indeed the ORER is even applicable.

Gene the insomniac Green



Re: Refrigerator cars

np328
 

I have uploaded some documents found at the Minnesota Historical Society in the Northern Pacific Co files.

 

These are AAR documents and the desk staff on site OK'd these of any copyright restrictions on the MHS's part as he felt these were originally for open distribution from the AAR and so they are posted here.

 

The orders covering the substitution of refrigerator cars for box cars are listed from inception to about 1956. No info past that date was present.

 

These 10 pages in the folder list the history of substitution arrangement - Refrigerator Cars for Box Cars on Westbound Continental Traffic, and are found in the file: Refrigerator Cars for Box Cars Refrigerator Cars for Box Cars

 

James Dick - Roseville, MN


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.


File : /Refrigerator Cars for Box Cars /Service Order History001.jpg
Uploaded by : np328 <jcdworkingonthenp@onebox.com>
Description : AAR historical listing of Service Orders


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/files/Refrigerator%20Cars%20for%20Box%20Cars%20/Service%20Order%20History001.jpg


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&;y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398


Regards,


np328 <jcdworkingonthenp@onebox.com>


Re: [EXTERNAL] Hand Brake Display (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Gene;

There is a gentleman in southern California that has handbrake assemblies hung all over his back yard fencing, but as far as I know, they were never viewed by/displayed for, the public.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 8:40 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] Hand Brake Display



I've posted some photos in an album name Hand Brake Display of the hand brake display in the Harvey House Museum in Belen, New Mexico. It will be on display through July 6. Those on display are less than half of my total collection.




It had been my intention to sand blast and paint all in bright colors but the museum's display guru wanted some in "as is" condition. More to the point, I ran out of time. Don't freak out about sand blasting. All the brakes except two were defective when I got them. I've restored a couple to working order including the Ajax 14665-1 which is gratifying loud when children spin the hand wheel to apply.




This might be the first such display of freight car hand brakes. Does anyone know of something similar previous to this.




Gene Green









Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

Charles Peck
 

I find the trucks interesting. Look like Buckeyes but with outboard bolster bearings for stability.
It's been a looooong time since I've been around one of those tanks but it does not look ready
for shipment. More like just a test loading.  I say this because of two things. The 50 cal. MG 
mount on top should be stowed inside, not exposed. And the main gun is elevated, not down
on its travel rests. 
And I wonder why this photo is evidently hosted on a Czechoslovakian website. 
Chuck Peck


On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 12:23 AM, Edwardsutorik@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Well, it's being odd to me, so I'm submitting it here for comments.  Here's a link:



http://en.valka.cz/files/tank_t43_zd_418.jpg



The reporting mark is "USA 499051".  The photo was most likely taken between 1953 and 1956.  The tank is a T43E1, later an M103.


I'm puzzled that it's not "USAX" instead of "USA".  And I'm puzzled that the car doesn't show up in the ORER, at least in 1950 and 1956.  Interestingly, the car number is quite similar to the NYC series for flats.


So, what is it?  And does it have any siblings?


Any and all assistance will be appreciated,



Ed


Edward Sutorik




Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

Marty McGuirk
 

Why are you puzzled it's "USA" and not "USAX?" "USA" was a valid reporting mark assigned to the United States Army. As was "USAX." As far as I know they're still considered valid reporting marks by the AAR although most DOD owned rail cars are currently assigned "DODX" reporting marks, I know there's plenty of "USN" lettered cars still around (and some lettered "USNX"). So the existence of a "USA" car in the late 50s wouldn't surprise me.

 

I think it's very odd that the barrel isn't traversed and locked for transport. I also think some of the lighting looks little strange. That photo, provided it's not faked in some way, looks to be from the late 1950s. (The M103 tank was first deployed in 1957, but it may have been photographed prior to deployment when it was being developed and tested).

 

I'm not a tank expert but I know the 103 was primarily fielded by the USMC between 1957 and 1972, when they were all retired from service. A total of 300 M103s were built - with only 70 or so in the Army's inventory for a brief period of time - by 1963 the Army transferred all their M103s to the USMC. 

 

Marty McGuirk 


Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

 

That¹s an M103 heavy tank. Since it was deployed in 1957, this just
qualifies as STMFC material. LOL!

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, June 29, 2014 at 11:23 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] odd US military depressed center flat car







Well, it's being odd to me, so I'm submitting it here for comments. Here's
a link:





http://en.valka.cz/files/tank_t43_zd_418.jpg




<http://en.valka.cz/files/tank_t43_zd_418.jpg>

http://en.valka.cz/files/tank_t43_zd_418.jpg
<http://en.valka.cz/files/tank_t43_zd_418.jpg>



View on en.valka.cz <http://en.valka.cz/files/tank_t43_zd_418.jpg>
Preview by Yahoo







The reporting mark is "USA 499051". The photo was most likely taken between
1953 and 1956. The tank is a T43E1, later an M103.



I'm puzzled that it's not "USAX" instead of "USA". And I'm puzzled that the
car doesn't show up in the ORER, at least in 1950 and 1956. Interestingly,
the car number is quite similar to the NYC series for flats.



So, what is it? And does it have any siblings?



Any and all assistance will be appreciated,





Ed



Edward Sutorik


Re: USRA Hoppers

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


LNE is easy ... they didn't have any. Neither did LV unless you count the ephemeral series that went to B&O/M&K shortly after delivery. Both had generally similar cars built before USRA designs were created.
 
RDG 73000 weighed 2-55 has an Ajax power handbrake I think. Painted the typical scheme with roman "READING" and Americas Largest Anthracite Carrier logo. 73650 and 74158 appear similar. Air brakes on 73000,73650 have been upgraded.
 
Eric N.
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 10:44 PM
Subject: [STMFC] USRA Hoppers

 

Hi, all - 


I'm looking for some information as to when specific roads upgraded their USRA hoppers to AB Brakes, or handbrakes. The roads I'm interested in are:

B&O
CNJ
CRP
D&H
DL&W
LNE
LV
NYC
RDG


I'm focused on 1947 right now.


Thanks!


Randy

--

Randy Hammill

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954 | New Britain Station



Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

genegreen1942@...
 

In general the reporting marks "USA" instead of "USAX" identified US Army freight cars intended for or actually in foreign service.  Foreign service usually meant Korea or Germany but some cars and locomotives in the inventory could have the gauge widened to 60 or 66 inches which might suggest to some the possibility of use in countries other than those in western Europe (Spain excluded) or Korea.

The car in the photo appears very similar to the car illustrated on page 5-30 of Department of the Army Technical Manual (TM) 55-208 dated October 1976 which car was described as "Railway car, flat, depressed center, 56 1/2 (143.51 cm), 60 (152.40 cm) and 66 inch (167.64 cm) gages, 70 ton (63 metric ton), 12 wheel, foreign service."

The Department of Defense did not use the reporting marks in most internal documents so, unless you can get close enough to the car to find and read the Federal or National Stock Number, you can't connect the contents of TM 55-208 with contents of the ORER, if indeed the ORER is even applicable.

Gene the insomniac Green


odd US military depressed center flat car

spsalso
 

Well, it's being odd to me, so I'm submitting it here for comments.  Here's a link:



http://en.valka.cz/files/tank_t43_zd_418.jpg



The reporting mark is "USA 499051".  The photo was most likely taken between 1953 and 1956.  The tank is a T43E1, later an M103.


I'm puzzled that it's not "USAX" instead of "USA".  And I'm puzzled that the car doesn't show up in the ORER, at least in 1950 and 1956.  Interestingly, the car number is quite similar to the NYC series for flats.


So, what is it?  And does it have any siblings?


Any and all assistance will be appreciated,



Ed


Edward Sutorik



USRA Hoppers

rhammill
 

Hi, all - 


I'm looking for some information as to when specific roads upgraded their USRA hoppers to AB Brakes, or handbrakes. The roads I'm interested in are:

B&O
CNJ
CRP
D&H
DL&W
LNE
LV
NYC
RDG


I'm focused on 1947 right now.


Thanks!


Randy

--

Randy Hammill

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954 | New Britain Station



Re: Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I don’t know if there is an EL group, an Erie Lackawanna group on Yahoo.  Probably, given the vast array of groups out there.  But what I suggested to John is that he might want to be on the “erieclack” list, which is NOT a Yahoo list.  It’s hosted by Railfan.net.  it is a less-rigorously managed list than the STMFC (no complaints, Mike!) and covers ERIE, DL&W and EL.  There’s a tilt toward EL, but as I said to John, I have a delete key.  it’s moderately active, probably 20 posts per day.  It’s the source of the daily 5-shots of DL&W historical photos that I have, from time to time, forwarded links for when there is steam era freight equipment in the pictures.  To subscribe:

 

Subscribing to the list is easy! Simply send an E-mail to majordomo@..., and in the BODY of the message, type in:

      subscribe erielack yourname@...

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 8:16 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting

 

 

A little clarification.

 

Schuyler e-mailed me and asked what I meant by the moribund Erie group.  Apparently there are two groups here, the one I belong to is the Erie Railroad Collector and Modeler group.  Is there also an EL group here???  I think I didn't join that one because I am not very interested in the Erie after the 1960 merger.  I think that was the death knell for the Erie and just postponed its demise until CONRAIL adsorbed the EL.  I say this in spite of the fact that one of my uncles worked for the Erie and one for the Lackawanna, so when the merger occurred it gave me the opportunity for a cab ride (I blew the horn for the grade crossings) at the age of 12, circa 1961 or so.

 

-- John


Re: Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting

Schuyler Larrabee
 

That is correct on both counts.  After’46, the ERIE seemed to chase down all the small diamond cars and repaint them, in some cases repainting ONLY the diamond.  There are photos of small-diamonded house cars after, say, 1948, but not very many.

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 8:21 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting

 

 

P.S.  I forgot to mention, I have a lettering diagram for Erie Auto Box cars which shows the change to the yellow diamond on 1/17/1944 and the change to the white 6' diamond on 12/17/1946 (diagram 152-12-368).  I would assume that the change occurred for the regular boxcars around the same dates.

 

-- John


Re: Re PFE WOOD REFER UNDERFRAMES

Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff wrote:

As Bruce pointed out, the Tichy underframe is an R-40. The "built-up" underferames of this type came in both 30-ton and 40-ton sizes, according to Tony's PFE articles in RMC. I used Tichy parts to convert some of my RC PFE cars that actually needed the 30-ton underframes because it is the only thing available. The Tichy parts are available separately from their kits as a floor and underframe.


       As Bruce Smith accurately stated, the built-up and Bettendorf underframes are distinctly different, and yes, the Tichy one is intended as a 40-ton built-up version. But in fact, the differences between 30-ton and 40-ton versions of this underframe are MINUTE in the extreme. The 40-ton cover plate on the bolster is a little wider, the plate thickness in the center sill is slightly greater, and there are little corner reinforcements between the center sill and bolster which are hard to see even in a close-up view. I fully support the idea that the Tichy part can be used for either 30- or 40-ton cars, and few if any could tell the difference even if judging in a model contest.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting

John Sykes III
 

P.S.  I forgot to mention, I have a lettering diagram for Erie Auto Box cars which shows the change to the yellow diamond on 1/17/1944 and the change to the white 6' diamond on 12/17/1946 (diagram 152-12-368).  I would assume that the change occurred for the regular boxcars around the same dates.


-- John


Re: Erie 1940s & 1950s Boxcar Painting

John Sykes III
 

A little clarification.


Schuyler e-mailed me and asked what I meant by the moribund Erie group.  Apparently there are two groups here, the one I belong to is the Erie Railroad Collector and Modeler group.  Is there also an EL group here???  I think I didn't join that one because I am not very interested in the Erie after the 1960 merger.  I think that was the death knell for the Erie and just postponed its demise until CONRAIL adsorbed the EL.  I say this in spite of the fact that one of my uncles worked for the Erie and one for the Lackawanna, so when the merger occurred it gave me the opportunity for a cab ride (I blew the horn for the grade crossings) at the age of 12, circa 1961 or so.


-- John


Re: Refrigerator cars

lstt100
 

I'll add to Guy's reply.

Prior to ICC Service Order 104, the ICC issued Service Order 95 on Nov 9, 1942 appointing an agent of the ICC to control movement of refrigerator cars and created an advisory committee.  It authorized the agent of the ICC, when necessary, to direct the distribution of all refrigerator cars without regard to ownership or assignment.

ICC Service Order 104 also made the order "permissive as applying to "carriers" and mandatory as applying to "shippers".  ICC Service Order 104 became mandatory on Sept 1, 1943.  It was further modified on Aug 4, 1945, if available, it required use of any ownership reefers for westbound loading to all points west of eastern boundaries of New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana and also allowed loading from Utah to California or Nevada and from Washington to California.

ICC Service Order 104 expired on June 30, 1949 and was covered by specific tariffs after this date.

Dan Holbrook

56841 - 56860 of 182364