Date   
Re: [Off Topic] Modern Freight Car Group

Scott H. Haycock
 

There is also a Baby Boomers Yahoo Group that covers IIRC, 1960-1980



Scott Haycock


 

Where might I inquire about freight cars built after 1960, especially after 1980? Especially Union Pacific cars built after 1980?


Don Strack



Re: [EXTERNAL] Hand Brake Display (UNCLASSIFIED)

clipper841@att.net <clipper841@...>
 

i believe that this gentlemen's collection, was covered TWICE, by pbs's "california's gold"
hosted by the late huell howser, if memory serves me, he also had a couple of semaphores,
and a collection of  sp mow equipment also, he was out in the antalope valley area some where,
since pbs has pulled the plug on "california's gold", you may have to research their title index
on their web site
good luck
mel perry

On Jun 30, 2014, at 6:27 AM, 'Gatwood, Elden SAW' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Gene;

There is a gentleman in southern California that has handbrake assemblies hung all over his back yard fencing, but as far as I know, they were never viewed by/displayed for, the public.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 8:40 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] Hand Brake Display



I've posted some photos in an album name Hand Brake Display of the hand brake display in the Harvey House Museum in Belen, New Mexico. It will be on display through July 6. Those on display are less than half of my total collection.




It had been my intention to sand blast and paint all in bright colors but the museum's display guru wanted some in "as is" condition. More to the point, I ran out of time. Don't freak out about sand blasting. All the brakes except two were defective when I got them. I've restored a couple to working order including the Ajax 14665-1 which is gratifying loud when children spin the hand wheel to apply.




This might be the first such display of freight car hand brakes. Does anyone know of something similar previous to this.




Gene Green









Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE



Re: [Off Topic] Modern Freight Car Group

freightcarworld
 

Don,

The railroadcarhistory on the yahoo groups covers all eras, deals with prototype information (not models), but focuses on post 1980 to present (and is the discussion group for the New Builds Tables of freight cars since 1980. 

David Casdorph

Re: [Off Topic] Modern Freight Car Group

caboose9792@...
 

Ironically, the modern freight car group, also on yahoo.
MFCL@...
 
Mark Rickert
 

In a message dated 6/30/2014 4:31:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
Where might I inquire about freight cars built after 1960, especially after 1980? Especially Union Pacific cars built after 1980?

Don Strack

[Off Topic] Modern Freight Car Group

Don Strack
 

Where might I inquire about freight cars built after 1960, especially after 1980? Especially Union Pacific cars built after 1980?

Don Strack


Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

genegreen1942@...
 

John,
The Roco flat most assuredly did have a prototype.  There were quite a few in Germany but probably not in Austria after the occupation ended.

I have created a photo album named "army flat car" to which I have uploaded two photos and the applicable (I believe) page from the TM.

The two photos show flat cars (not depressed center) with the same or similar trucks to the car in the photo that started this thread.

As can be seen (I hope) on the TM page, there were depressed center flats in that group with Buckeye trucks and others with the as yet unidentified truck.

Gene Green

Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

genegreen1942@...
 

The Transportation Supply and Maintenance Command in St. Louis closed down 20 years ago or thereabouts.  I would guess that its activities are now handled at Hill AFB or Tooele (sic?) Army Depot in Utah.

I can assure one and all that US Army rail equipment was present in and used regularly in Korea, Alaska and Germany.  (Alaska at least was an overseas assignment back in my day (1960-1987).

To get this discussion back well within the STMFC time period, there are a couple of loads we might occasionally used on our model railroads.  After WWII the planners were convinced there'd be another war in Europe.  Part of preparedness was a set of 5 freight car "kits" intended to be assembled in theater with unskilled troop or indiginous labor and use scrounged trucks & couplers.   See Dept of Army Technical Manual 55-2220-201-35.  My issue is dated December 1958.

Four of the kits were packed in wooden crates but the tank car was already assembled and placed on a flat car.  There were two such loaded flats at Fort Bliss until 1982.  The flats were built in 1953, sent to the tank car assembly plant and loaded.  These flats, and others similarly loaded, were shifted around from installation to installation as missions and planning changed. What we have here is a 53-6 flat (the Life-Like P2K model in HO) that was     loaded in 1953, traveled around from time to time, and was finally unloaded in 1982 - almost 30 years.

The TM refered to above has assembly instructions and drawings for all 5 cars.

Gene Green

Re: Refrigerator cars (CNW Video)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Thank you, Gene.


I've passed the link on to a lot of folks who will be very happy to see this.  I don't really consider this film "old" as it was made the year I was born. 


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

genegreen1942@...
 

Nice photo, Ed.  Thanks for posting it.  I arrived at Coleman Barracks in January 1961.
Gene Green

Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

Bruce Smith
 

The Magor series of flats was built in 1953, which would coincide perfectly with the introduction of the T43 test program... so a brand new Magor flat with the T43 would be reasonable.  

As for the photo on the depressed center flat, to me that was almost certainly taken at Aberdeen or Fort Knox adn represented a test loading to demonstrate to the Army that the tank would fit the cars to be used, if needed, in the european theater.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 1:42 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: odd US military depressed center flat car



Bruce,

There were plenty of straight flats with enough capacity available at the time to carry these tanks.  I'm not sure if the Magors had arrived yet, but the 39095 series appears to me to have been available.  And they had  a capacity of 100 tons.

I'll also note that the field manual for this tank shows the loading only for the Magor flats.  NOT for depressed flats that might have been in foreign service.  That certainly doesn't mean that info wasn't elsewhere, but it wasn't "important" enough to have been included in the manual.

If the photo was taken in the US, I s'pose the setup could have happened because of an unusual shipment through territory with low clearance.

I'm a just finding it interesting that there appears to be only ONE photo of this car or any of its brothers.  And no record of the series availab! le.



Ed

Edward Sutorik

PDF of Refrigerator Car Info Posted

John Barry
 

With thanks to Jim Dick, I have consolidated his history JPGs into a PDF file and posted it to the same folder for the convenience of the members who would like this great info in a single document.  With Jim's permission, I've also sent it to the Santa Fe H&MS webmaster for posting on ATSFRR.ORG.

Thank You Again Jim! 
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682

New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.


File : /Refrigerator Cars for Box Cars /Substitution of Reefers for Box Cars WB.pdf
Uploaded by : northbaylines@... <northbaylines@...>
Description : PDF version of AAR notes


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/files/Refrigerator%20Cars%20for%20Box%20Cars%20/Substitution%20of%20Reefers%20for%20Box%20Cars%20WB.pdf


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398


Regards,


northbaylines@... <northbaylines@...>

Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

spsalso
 

Bruce,

There were plenty of straight flats with enough capacity available at the time to carry these tanks.  I'm not sure if the Magors had arrived yet, but the 39095 series appears to me to have been available.  And they had  a capacity of 100 tons.

I'll also note that the field manual for this tank shows the loading only for the Magor flats.  NOT for depressed flats that might have been in foreign service.  That certainly doesn't mean that info wasn't elsewhere, but it wasn't "important" enough to have been included in the manual.

If the photo was taken in the US, I s'pose the setup could have happened because of an unusual shipment through territory with low clearance.

I'm a just finding it interesting that there appears to be only ONE photo of this car or any of its brothers.  And no record of the series available.



Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

Marty McGuirk
 


John,

Agree with everything you wrote. But if they tried shipping that tank with the barrel elevated like that they may have some clearnace issues!

Would be interested to see what you turn up from your Ft Eustis days. 

If anyone is ever in the James River peninsula area a visit to Ft Eustis is pretty interesting.

http://www.transchool.lee.army.mil/museum/transportation%20museum/museum.htm

Of course, the Transportation Command is now moved to Indiana, but the Army Transportation Museum is at the old Fort Eustis facility.

 

 

Marty McGuirk

Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

john.allyn@...
 

When I was stationed at Fort Eustis in 1972 there was a substantial amount of equipment configured for European service -- buffers, screw couplers, low clearance cabs, etc.  This was for training purposes.  At that time the Army was using true flat cars for tank loading, as they could be quickly unleaded circus-style.  Tanks also did not present clearance problems requiring a depressed center car.  I suspect that this photo shows a loading exercise at some CONUS base rather than anything overseas.  I will look at my Fort Eustis photos tonight to see if I have photos of anything like this car.

John B. Allyn



From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 1:10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

 




---In STMFC@..., wrote :

"I was wondering if the car could have been in foreign service at the time of the photo.  And perhaps it was.  But as I noted in my just submitted comments, the tank looks to me to be in "pre-release" form.  Thus it would be unlikely to be out of the country."

I wasn't suggesting that the car was out of country. I'm going to have to defer to the military experts here, but I don't think those "overseas" flats were ever deployed, but rather spent their entire lives on bases here in the US. I'm sure I've seen references to the  "Roco" style flatcars in Gov't surplus disposition auctions over the years, so at least some must have been built and held ready for deployment. If this is a new, in development tank, it stands to reason at some point that did a "test fitting" to the cars that were designed to haul them across Europe to the front lines.

Dennis Storzek

Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

A little digging on the web page where the original photo was shown at:
gives a very nice history of the development of this series of tanks (although the translation is rough at times!).

As several folks have noted, this appears to be a T43 test vehicle and not an in service M103.  The depressed center car was needed overseas because of tighter clearances.

Given that the T43 prototypes were sent from the Detroit Tank Arsenal to Aberdeen and Fort Knox for testing and with a weight of around 60 tons, these would have required an appropriate flat car for transport (probably NOT the overseas flat car in the photo).  This sort of "rare" load may only appear a few times as the prototypes made the trip from factory to test facility and back to the factory (and perhaps back to the test facility after modifications), but it can be an excuse to "bump" era a bit... for example, I have an M26 Pershing model that I purchased before realizing it was too modern for me... however, the T26E1 is just about perfect to send to Aberdeen.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMHWWIJ-e94 for a brief video of the T43 undergoing testing.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 12:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: odd US military depressed center flat car



Ed,

I think you're right and this is a tank in its development and testing stage.

Of course, if that's the case the photo could date from anytime from the late 1940s through 1957-58 when the tank was deployed as the M103.

For a lot of details on the tank - see M103 Heavy Tank 1950-74 (New Vanguard)

Might be interesting to send the photo to the author and see if he can offer more details on the photo, which I'm sure he uncovered in his research for the book. 

But don't get confused into thinking this was an "Army" tank - it was the mainstay of the Marines armored elements for two decades - the Army never really wanted the thing.

Marty McGuirk 


 



Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote :

"I was wondering if the car could have been in foreign service at the time of the photo.  And perhaps it was.  But as I noted in my just submitted comments, the tank looks to me to be in "pre-release" form.  Thus it would be unlikely to be out of the country."

I wasn't suggesting that the car was out of country. I'm going to have to defer to the military experts here, but I don't think those "overseas" flats were ever deployed, but rather spent their entire lives on bases here in the US. I'm sure I've seen references to the  "Roco" style flatcars in Gov't surplus disposition auctions over the years, so at least some must have been built and held ready for deployment. If this is a new, in development tank, it stands to reason at some point that did a "test fitting" to the cars that were designed to haul them across Europe to the front lines.

Dennis Storzek

Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

I notice that the photo of the tank on the DC flat has the cannon elevated
about the same amount as in the link belowŠ

Just an observation.

I would agree with the revised possible date span as well.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Monday, June 30, 2014 at 12:42 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] odd US military depressed center flat car







I guess it's actually not that hard to get a tank off a depressed center
flatcar (or something similar):



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/M103_Coleman_Barracks.jpg



It is, after all, what they "do".



Ed

Edward Sutorik










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

Marty McGuirk
 

Ed,

I think you're right and this is a tank in its development and testing stage.

Of course, if that's the case the photo could date from anytime from the late 1940s through 1957-58 when the tank was deployed as the M103.

For a lot of details on the tank - see M103 Heavy Tank 1950-74 (New Vanguard)

Might be interesting to send the photo to the author and see if he can offer more details on the photo, which I'm sure he uncovered in his research for the book. 

But don't get confused into thinking this was an "Army" tank - it was the mainstay of the Marines armored elements for two decades - the Army never really wanted the thing.

Marty McGuirk 


 

Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

spsalso
 

I guess it's actually not that hard to get a tank off a depressed center flatcar (or something similar):





It is, after all, what they "do".



Ed

Edward Sutorik