Date   

Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

spsalso
 

"Does anyone know how many of the 100 ton capacity Magor cars still exist?"

I would say "lots".  They're cast steel and very heavy duty.  I recall seeing about 3 on a steam tourist railroad up near Spokane.



Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: coal loads

Phil Clark
 

Size? this might help you. http://www.sizes.com/materls/coal_bituminous.htm

Phil Clark, Catarman, Philippines.


Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

John Sutkus
 

Does anyone know how many of the 100 ton capacity Magor cars still exist? I do know of one in reasonably good shape (for a sixty-something year old) sitting on a siding out here in the East Bay area of Northern California.
John Sutkus


TLT Minibox

Brian Carlson
 

I’ve picked up a TLT minibox to go with my previously built F&C one. The TLT model has “rectangular protrusions” sticking up from the bolster. What are they supposed to be? They are interfering with truck swing.

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga, NY

 


coal loads

Brian Carlson
 

OK dumb question here, many hopper coals loads come in the “fine” or “coarse” sizes. I’ve also seen “egg,” “lump,” and “Stoker”  I can sort of figure the last one out but is there a cheaters guide for the others. I’d like to at least deliver the right sizes to the coal fired power plant vs. the anthracite coal dealer etc.

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga, NY

 


Re: Refrigerator cars

Ken Roth
 

I'm a little late on the discussion, but the best "non-food" load I ever saw was a picture in a little book on the history of Grants Pass, Oregon.  In it was a picture of a PFE 40-10 reefer being unloaded in Grants Pass, and ... the cargo?  Refrigerators !!

    Ken Roth


Re: Aberdeen Proving Ground

spsalso
 

The fantastic collection at Aberdeen (much of which could be carried on railroad cars!!!) has been moved to Fort Lee and Fort Benning.  Public access is pretty much not available.  Sniff.



Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Aberdeen Proving Ground

John Sykes III
 

I was stationed at Aberdeen PG during that time frame (1977-1980).  Actually, I was stationed at Edgewood Arsenal, but lived at APG in Jr. officer quarters right behind the museum.  Aberdeen & Ft. Knox are two of the best armament museums in the world.  Just about every program on the Military Channel features interviews with the APG curator about weapons of the era.


Before APG I was stationed at Ft. Meade.  One day I heard that there was a brush fire near the NE corridor tracks so drove over to there.  I told the fire Chief that, if he didn't get his hoses off of the tracks, the MetroLiner due through there in about 20 minutes might make getting water to the fire a bit difficult.  They cleared the tracks about 2 minutes before the MetroLiner came through there at about 120 mph.  The Chief thanked me for saving him a lot of embarrassment and report writing.


-- John


Re: Aberdeen Proving Ground

John Barry
 

If one rocket scientist may excuse an out of era excursion by another, in 1978 I participated in a multi-service shipment by rail of Soviet T-54 tanks from Earl Naval Weapons Station, NJ to Aberdeen and thence to Yuma.  One of our AF wiz kids at the Program Office at Wright-Patterson had bought a pair from the Israelis with the assumption that they could be made into operable remote controlled targets for A-10 testing.  I was working as a rent-a-lieutenant at the AF Armament Laboratory at Eglin AFB FL while waiting for my pilot training class date.  Two of us flew up to Newark to drive down to Earl where we got a first look at the T-54s, sitting on a pair of flats where they had been offloaded from the ship.  I could see immediately that our SPO guy had bought a bill of goods, there was one complete track and wheel set between the two tanks.  One rested on four road wheels, one on each corner, but Aberdeen had said they could refurbish them and had some parts from other sources.  So we went ahead and shipped them.  In a meeting at Aberdeen later that week, they confirmed my cub engineer's suspicion that these were WAAAAY too far gone.  The Marines made us an offer we couldn't refuse:  In exchange for the hulks shipped to their petting zoo at Yuma, we could get the use of some of their RC M-48s for our testing.  That was the last I saw of those Soviet cum Syrian cum Israeli cum AF cum Marine T-54s.  

In an effort to evade Mike slamming the door to the Moderate Jail behind me, while at Aberdeen for this trip in the summer of 78, I did see Annie and her steam era rail gun workmanship and the assortment of period flat car loads.

Years later, I viewed the gun barrel assembly and rail trucks on display at the Washington Naval Yard, just outside the Navy Museum.  Much to see if you are in the area.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "'Mike Brock' brockm@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 5:46 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Aberdeen Proving Ground

 
Bruce Smith notes:

"Given that the T43 prototypes were sent from the Detroit Tank Arsenal to
Aberdeen and Fort Knox for testing and with a weight of around 60 tons,
these would have required an appropriate flat car for transport (probably
NOT the overseas flat car in the photo)."

And: "...for example, I have an M26 Pershing model that I purchased before
realizing it was too modern for me... however, the T26E1 is just about
perfect to send to Aberdeen."

Before I became a rocket scientist for NASA at Kennedy Space Center, I
worked at Aberdeen Proving Ground. For those unaware [ back in 1964 anyhow ]
as one entered the place via the main 4 lane road, there was a lengthy
display on the median of US armored vehicles beginning from the earliest [
Mark V tanks of WW1 vintage ] to huge monsters that probably consumed
more fuel than a Saturn V rocket. One interesting aspect of this is that
Aberdeen had an MP unit stationed there and behind the last armored fortress
on treads was the favorite hiding place of a car filled with 4 MP's wearing
perpetual grins waiting to pounce on the first speeding incoming vehicle.

And, to avoid the rath of the group owner...uh, me...I am reminded that I
have a video of an M6 heavy tank of WW2 being demonstrated at Aberdeen or
Fort Knox. This would make a rather unique flat car load. There were about
90 built [ as I recall ] and none were accepted for service. Incidentally,
Aberdeen was [ and may still be ] the home of an impressive collection of
foreign tanks including a German Jagd Tiger and Elephant among others. I was
surprised to discover that 2 German Panther tanks there were operational
back then. Anzio Annie [ 280mm RR gun ] was there as well. All of this
stuff, particularly Annie, likely traveled to Aberdeen by rail.

Back to frt cars.

Mike Brock




Aberdeen Proving Ground

Mikebrock
 

Bruce Smith notes:

"Given that the T43 prototypes were sent from the Detroit Tank Arsenal to
Aberdeen and Fort Knox for testing and with a weight of around 60 tons,
these would have required an appropriate flat car for transport (probably
NOT the overseas flat car in the photo)."


And: "...for example, I have an M26 Pershing model that I purchased before
realizing it was too modern for me... however, the T26E1 is just about
perfect to send to Aberdeen."

Before I became a rocket scientist for NASA at Kennedy Space Center, I
worked at Aberdeen Proving Ground. For those unaware [ back in 1964 anyhow ]
as one entered the place via the main 4 lane road, there was a lengthy
display on the median of US armored vehicles beginning from the earliest [
Mark V <?> tanks of WW1 vintage ] to huge monsters that probably consumed
more fuel than a Saturn V rocket. One interesting aspect of this is that
Aberdeen had an MP unit stationed there and behind the last armored fortress
on treads was the favorite hiding place of a car filled with 4 MP's wearing
perpetual grins waiting to pounce on the first speeding incoming vehicle.

And, to avoid the rath of the group owner...uh, me...I am reminded that I
have a video of an M6 heavy tank of WW2 being demonstrated at Aberdeen or
Fort Knox. This would make a rather unique flat car load. There were about
90 built [ as I recall ] and none were accepted for service. Incidentally,
Aberdeen was [ and may still be ] the home of an impressive collection of
foreign tanks including a German Jagd Tiger and Elephant among others. I was
surprised to discover that 2 German Panther tanks there were operational
back then. Anzio Annie [ 280mm RR gun ] was there as well. All of this
stuff, particularly Annie, likely traveled to Aberdeen by rail.

Back to frt cars.

Mike Brock


Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

Dave Owens
 

Jim:
Do you by chance have any photos of those M48s and M60s being loaded onto flats at Camp Lejeune?

Thanks,
Dave Owens
West Hartford, Conn.




On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Jedalberg@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


The Marine Corps bought the M-103 in part because they were available--the Army's main raison d'etre, the T-10 was going away! (probably into storage--the Sov's never got rid of anything, except to their client states).
There were two companies of these monsters, one each in the 2d and 1st Tank Bns; 3d Tanks on Okinawa had none--the other three companies in each Bn had the M-48A1s (gas drinkers, 3 gal to the mile, before conversions to A3,A4,A5s. We often loaded the M 48s on DoD flats at Camp Lejeune for movement to Morehead City for ship loading; later to Camp Pickett--M-60s by that time.. It was interesting, to say the least, backing them down a string of flats--they overhung the sides by about 8". In travel mode these tanks all had the turrets trained (no pun intended) to the rear and the gun barrel clamped into a travel lock.
I never saw any of the M-103s being loaded--this was all 55 or so years ago--the M60 business was only 40 years ago---
 
I have seen LeClercs loaded on French military flats in recent years, mostly around Verdun. These cars are what I might call semi-depressed, so the tanks sit on the low section--when they are driven off it is up and over the ends,somewhat like circus loading with ramps between the cars. Never saw them being loaded but bet it's interesting to watch. The Bundesheer still uses the short 6-wheel truck flats they've been using for 70+ years (same design, owned by the B-bahn). In the old days, the Tigers hung over and they had to put on a set of narrow Travel tracks for side clearance. I think the Leo's fit without modification--
Jim Dalberg
 





--
2015 New England/Northeast Prototype Modelers Meet
May 29-30, 2015 (Always the weekend after Memorial Day)
Collinsville, Connecticut
www.neprototypemeet.com
www.facebook.com/NERPM


Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

Jedalberg
 

The Marine Corps bought the M-103 in part because they were available--the Army's main raison d'etre, the T-10 was going away! (probably into storage--the Sov's never got rid of anything, except to their client states).
There were two companies of these monsters, one each in the 2d and 1st Tank Bns; 3d Tanks on Okinawa had none--the other three companies in each Bn had the M-48A1s (gas drinkers, 3 gal to the mile, before conversions to A3,A4,A5s. We often loaded the M 48s on DoD flats at Camp Lejeune for movement to Morehead City for ship loading; later to Camp Pickett--M-60s by that time.. It was interesting, to say the least, backing them down a string of flats--they overhung the sides by about 8". In travel mode these tanks all had the turrets trained (no pun intended) to the rear and the gun barrel clamped into a travel lock.
I never saw any of the M-103s being loaded--this was all 55 or so years ago--the M60 business was only 40 years ago---
 
I have seen LeClercs loaded on French military flats in recent years, mostly around Verdun. These cars are what I might call semi-depressed, so the tanks sit on the low section--when they are driven off it is up and over the ends,somewhat like circus loading with ramps between the cars. Never saw them being loaded but bet it's interesting to watch. The Bundesheer still uses the short 6-wheel truck flats they've been using for 70+ years (same design, owned by the B-bahn). In the old days, the Tigers hung over and they had to put on a set of narrow Travel tracks for side clearance. I think the Leo's fit without modification--
Jim Dalberg
 


Re: [Off Topic] Modern Freight Car Group

Scott H. Haycock
 

There is also a Baby Boomers Yahoo Group that covers IIRC, 1960-1980



Scott Haycock


 

Where might I inquire about freight cars built after 1960, especially after 1980? Especially Union Pacific cars built after 1980?


Don Strack




Re: [EXTERNAL] Hand Brake Display (UNCLASSIFIED)

clipper841@att.net <clipper841@...>
 

i believe that this gentlemen's collection, was covered TWICE, by pbs's "california's gold"
hosted by the late huell howser, if memory serves me, he also had a couple of semaphores,
and a collection of  sp mow equipment also, he was out in the antalope valley area some where,
since pbs has pulled the plug on "california's gold", you may have to research their title index
on their web site
good luck
mel perry

On Jun 30, 2014, at 6:27 AM, 'Gatwood, Elden SAW' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Gene;

There is a gentleman in southern California that has handbrake assemblies hung all over his back yard fencing, but as far as I know, they were never viewed by/displayed for, the public.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 8:40 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] Hand Brake Display



I've posted some photos in an album name Hand Brake Display of the hand brake display in the Harvey House Museum in Belen, New Mexico. It will be on display through July 6. Those on display are less than half of my total collection.




It had been my intention to sand blast and paint all in bright colors but the museum's display guru wanted some in "as is" condition. More to the point, I ran out of time. Don't freak out about sand blasting. All the brakes except two were defective when I got them. I've restored a couple to working order including the Ajax 14665-1 which is gratifying loud when children spin the hand wheel to apply.




This might be the first such display of freight car hand brakes. Does anyone know of something similar previous to this.




Gene Green









Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE




Re: [Off Topic] Modern Freight Car Group

freightcarworld
 

Don,

The railroadcarhistory on the yahoo groups covers all eras, deals with prototype information (not models), but focuses on post 1980 to present (and is the discussion group for the New Builds Tables of freight cars since 1980. 

David Casdorph


Re: [Off Topic] Modern Freight Car Group

caboose9792@...
 

Ironically, the modern freight car group, also on yahoo.
MFCL@...
 
Mark Rickert
 

In a message dated 6/30/2014 4:31:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
Where might I inquire about freight cars built after 1960, especially after 1980? Especially Union Pacific cars built after 1980?

Don Strack


[Off Topic] Modern Freight Car Group

Don Strack
 

Where might I inquire about freight cars built after 1960, especially after 1980? Especially Union Pacific cars built after 1980?

Don Strack



Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

genegreen1942@...
 

John,
The Roco flat most assuredly did have a prototype.  There were quite a few in Germany but probably not in Austria after the occupation ended.

I have created a photo album named "army flat car" to which I have uploaded two photos and the applicable (I believe) page from the TM.

The two photos show flat cars (not depressed center) with the same or similar trucks to the car in the photo that started this thread.

As can be seen (I hope) on the TM page, there were depressed center flats in that group with Buckeye trucks and others with the as yet unidentified truck.

Gene Green


Re: odd US military depressed center flat car

genegreen1942@...
 

The Transportation Supply and Maintenance Command in St. Louis closed down 20 years ago or thereabouts.  I would guess that its activities are now handled at Hill AFB or Tooele (sic?) Army Depot in Utah.

I can assure one and all that US Army rail equipment was present in and used regularly in Korea, Alaska and Germany.  (Alaska at least was an overseas assignment back in my day (1960-1987).

To get this discussion back well within the STMFC time period, there are a couple of loads we might occasionally used on our model railroads.  After WWII the planners were convinced there'd be another war in Europe.  Part of preparedness was a set of 5 freight car "kits" intended to be assembled in theater with unskilled troop or indiginous labor and use scrounged trucks & couplers.   See Dept of Army Technical Manual 55-2220-201-35.  My issue is dated December 1958.

Four of the kits were packed in wooden crates but the tank car was already assembled and placed on a flat car.  There were two such loaded flats at Fort Bliss until 1982.  The flats were built in 1953, sent to the tank car assembly plant and loaded.  These flats, and others similarly loaded, were shifted around from installation to installation as missions and planning changed. What we have here is a 53-6 flat (the Life-Like P2K model in HO) that was     loaded in 1953, traveled around from time to time, and was finally unloaded in 1982 - almost 30 years.

The TM refered to above has assembly instructions and drawings for all 5 cars.

Gene Green


Re: Refrigerator cars (CNW Video)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Thank you, Gene.


I've passed the link on to a lot of folks who will be very happy to see this.  I don't really consider this film "old" as it was made the year I was born. 


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA