Date   

Re: Helium car loading sites

John Barry
 

It also depends on the era, as new plants came on line in the 60's and later as the Govt privatized the He supply.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "asychis@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 7:15 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Helium car loading sites

 
Gentlemen:
Helium cars were loaded at, I believe, Hugoton, Kansas, on the Cimarron
Valley District. I do remember seeing empty cars at Boise City waiting to go
back for loading in 1977-78 when I was working on the Colorado Division.

Cordially,

John Hodson
 
John, they were also loaded at Amarillo (Rock Island) and Excel (AT&SF), TX.  Probably a number of other places where helium was abundant.  Jerry Michels



Tank Car Photos

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Courtesy of the Tulsa City-County Library’s Digital Collections

( http://cdm15020.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ ) here are some steam era images of tank cars and tank car scenes.

 

Regrettably, the documentation for the images is rather scant.  If you have information about these images to contribute the Library may be contacted at:

 

http://www.tulsalibrary.org/what-do-you-think

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

http://cdm15020.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15020coll1/id/12340/rec/1

 

http://cdm15020.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15020coll1/id/12154/rec/96

 

http://cdm15020.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15020coll5/id/120/rec/119

 

http://cdm15020.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15020coll8/id/266/rec/124

 

http://cdm15020.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15020coll1/id/12337/rec/7

 

 


Helium car loading sites

asychis@...
 

Gentlemen:
Helium cars were loaded at, I believe, Hugoton, Kansas, on the Cimarron
Valley District. I do remember seeing empty cars at Boise City waiting to go
back for loading in 1977-78 when I was working on the Colorado Division.

Cordially,

John Hodson
 
John, they were also loaded at Amarillo (Rock Island) and Excel (AT&SF), TX.  Probably a number of other places where helium was abundant.  Jerry Michels


NYC Car Type

rwitt_2000
 

Some were converted to stock cars.

757-S NYC 28000-28499 CARS CONVERTED FROM BOXCARS FROM LOTS 376-B, 380-B, 405-B AND 406-B. 40 CARS CONVERTED TO SINGLE DECK CARS 1959/1960 AND RENUMBERED NYC 22500-22547. 7 CARS CONVERTED TO DOUBLE DECK CARS 1958/1961 AND RENUMBERED 26000-26007


 
 
image
 
 
 
 
 
Preview by Yahoo
 


766-S NYC 27200-27399    CARS CONVERTED FROM BOXCARS FROM LOTS 376-B, 380-B, 405-B AND 406-B

 
 
image
 
 
 
 
 
Preview by Yahoo
 

Bob Witt


Re: NYC car type?

Benjamin Hom
 

Don Valentine asked:



"Speaking of the NYC boxcar fleet, does anyone know if any of the NYC USRA single or double sheathed boxcars make it into the post war era in their original construction or were all either rebuilt with steel sides or destroyed in service beforehand?"

Yes for both, though the numbers take a big hit as NYC took delivery of large numbers of postwar AAR boxcars after WWII.  Cars of both types remained in service into the mid-1950s.  With the exception of PMcK&Y's USRA SS boxcars (lot 384-B) and a single lot 394-B USRA DS boxcar, the NYCS did not rebuild these cars into all-steel boxcars. 

USRA SS boxcar lots:
376-B
380-B
382-B
384-B (rebuilt to lots 630-B and 638-B, prototype for Tichy rebuilt USRA boxcar)
405-B
406-B

USRA DS boxcar lots:
386-B
394-B
395-B
402-B
404-B

For specific information, go to http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT2.htm and use CTRL-F to search using the lot number.


Ben Hom


Re: NYC car type?

Benjamin Hom
 

Clark Propst wrote:
"As a causal NYC modeler, meaning I may have three cars. I could give a rats
rear about lots."

Three cars?  You should have as many NYC boxcars as PRR boxcars!  NYC boxcars are one of the most under-represented models on any steam-era layout - as Jeff English pointed out, they had over 50,000 boxcars.

"I wish someone would take all that great info on that Canadian website and transfer it to excel so one could filter to find what one’s looking for in a few clicks."

A previous poster noted that you could use the Ctrl-F function of your browser to search for text, which is how I've been pulling information.


Ben Hom


Re: NYC car type?

Benjamin Hom
 

Earl Tuson wrote:
"Hmm, I have a very distinct impression of having a just such a handout from Jeff English that offered that precise information.  I think the appropriate model list was limited to S scale models though…"
You mean this handout?
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/nycsboxmain.html

Any work on this subject should use Jeff's research as a starting point - it does contain overall numbers, but is missing an important component - the population of cars over time.


Ben Hom


Re: NYC car type?

Armand Premo
 


Clark,Have you thought of Speedwitch NYC decals? Ted has an excellent  set. .Think they might be still available.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 11:22 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NYC car type?

 

Do to the lack of NYC box car decals I was thinking of using an NYC decorated car and changing what needs changing, ends, roof, numbers, etc.
 
As a causal NYC modeler, meaning I may have three cars. I could give a rats rear about lots. I wish someone would take all that great info on that Canadian website and transfer it to excel so one could filter to find what one’s looking for in a few clicks.
 
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

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Re: NYC car type?

Earl Tuson
 

Ben Hom says:

�Can anyone point to ANY source that shows proportions of cars that a modeler can use to build a fleet? �How many
USRA-design steel boxcars? �How many prewar AAR boxcars? �How many postwar AAR boxcars? �Sadly, the answer is a
resounding no.�

Hmm, I have a very distinct impression of having a just such a handout from Jeff English that offered that precise
information. I think the appropriate model list was limited to S scale models though�

Either that, or my memory is going at a rather young age.

Earl Tuson


Re: NYC car type?

Clark Propst
 

Do to the lack of NYC box car decals I was thinking of using an NYC decorated car and changing what needs changing, ends, roof, numbers, etc.
 
As a causal NYC modeler, meaning I may have three cars. I could give a rats rear about lots. I wish someone would take all that great info on that Canadian website and transfer it to excel so one could filter to find what one’s looking for in a few clicks.
 
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Richard Hendrickson

Jeff English
 

I recieved the grim news several days ago, but only now am I sufficiently over the shock to put fingers to keyboard.  I probably first met Richard in the mid-80s, when we started having RPM as a side show to NMRA national conventions; outside of freight cars, our mutual interest was
sports cars about which we shared many stories over drinks.  Dennis Storzek mentioned the old FCPN round-robin newsletter, which we at the RPI club joined as a result of being invited in by Richard.

 

Later in the 90s, when I started to realize that nobody was giving presentations on NYC box cars and that perhaps it was up to me to tackle the subject, my initial research was giving me the realization that there are really very few phtoos of such a prosaic subject.  There were lots of gaping holes, with questions to be answered.  So I asked Richard if I could review his photo collection to see what he had.  Now mind you, this was asking for him to lug several thick binders from the west coast to Naperville, but he happily did it and we spent several hours in his hotel room discussing NYC box cars.  Among other things I learned were several new (to me) photo sources; Tom Martorano is one that comes to mind.

 

The last couple of years in a row at Naperville/Lisle, Richard said to me something like, "It's really good to see you again", with a genuineness that made me feel that he really meant it.  It impressed me enough that it has stuck with me, and it had already crossed my mind this summer that perhaps this giant of our hobby would bestow his personal endorsement on me once again this fall, but now it is not to be.

 

I forget who originally said that we stand on the shoulders of giants, but it could not be more true in the case of Richard Hendrickson.

 

One final anecdote to illustrate the breadth of impact he had: my wife had only met Richard a handful of times, but one of those was the Friends of the Freight Car dinner at the 1996 NMRA convention in Long Beach.  This event was organized by Richard (and Tony) at a restaurant that served up a meal family style, and the whole event was a delight for Lorraine (who otherwise finds model railroad conventions uninteresting).  She raves about it to this day, and when I shared the sad news she remembered Richard clearly and what a gracious host he was, even 18 years after the fact.

 

Jeff English

Troy, New York


Re: NYC car type?

David
 

I dunno, NYCS always seemed fairly straightforward to me, once you get past the subsidiary renumberings. Plenty of oddball groups in rather low numbers, plus a few primary designs in large quantities.

Lots of 36' ds boxes with large straight side sills in the early-mid Teens, then the 40' ds and steel auto boxes late in the decade, a relative handful of USRA ds and ss boxes, the tidal wave of USRA steel boxes and auto car derivatives in the '20s, a breather in the '30s with a few steel-sided rebuilds, then launching into large purchases on 50-foot auto boxes and the 10' IH 40-foot boxes in the '40s.

Hoppers are even simpler: piles of the NYC-version of the 1905CD twins before 1920, then more piles of USRA twins and some triples in the '20s, with a few offset-side orders later in the decade. then NYC's shorty version of the AAR offset-side twin in the '40s, and their bazillion-rib 70-ton triples in the '50s.

David Thompson


Re: Upgrading AHM Helium Cars

John H. <cadfael44@...>
 

Gentlemen:
Helium cars were loaded at, I believe, Hugoton, Kansas, on the Cimarron Valley District. I do remember seeing empty cars at Boise City waiting to go back for loading in 1977-78 when I was working on the Colorado Division.

Cordially,

John Hodson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 6:56 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Upgrading AHM Helium Cars

 

 

John Barry wrote:

 

The cars also served NAS Moffet Field in Sunnyvale on the SP.  Depending on the routing, they could have been interchanged from ATSF after traversing Cajon to SP in LA and gone up the coast or in Oakland after transiting Tehachapi and the Valley Division.  I don't believe that ATSF would have short hauled itself and delivered the cars to SP in El Paso.

 

      It's a common misconception that the originating railroad got to choose routing, but not so. The shipper had, and very often used, the right to choose every detail of routing. Especially in this case, where the helium shipments were part of government ownership of the helium, which was predominantly used for defense and research purposes, you can be sure the helium traffic people made all those decision, not the Santa Fe, Rock Island, or anyone else.

 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history

 

 

 


Re: NYC car type?

Jeff English
 

Folks,

 

You don't hear from me very often (partly because I can't keep up with the bandwidth on this list), but I've been made aware that the topic is NYC box cars.  If anyone has a question about this particular topic, please feel free to contact me <off list> and I'll be happy to help as best I can.

 

Seth Lakin mentions "tow lugs"; as far as I know, the correct term for these is "roping staples".

 

Ben Hom is thinking about ways to parse NYC System's 50,000-car box car fleet; Ben I'd like to discuss what your ideas are.  I have a pretty good familiarity with all the groupings, but I think one of the primary organizational tools would be the NYC's "Spec"s; I have not yet gotten a hold of a document that lays out all the Specs (something I've been meaning to do for a long time, assuming NYCSHS has such an animal).

 

Jeff English

Troy, New York

also a member of the NYCSHS Modelers Committee


Re: NYC car type?

riverman_vt@...
 

     Speaking of the NYC boxcar fleet, does anyone know if any of the NYC USRA single or double sheathed boxcars make it into the post war era in their original construction or were all either rebuilt with steel sides or destroyed in service beforehand?

 

Cordially, Don Valentine ..... hoping to find a few of each survived in their original form.


Re: Upgrading AHM Helium Cars

riverman_vt@...
 

    And NERS has prints for two or three versions of  helium cars form ACF. Not sure whether\all were built or not.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Fallen flags web-site...What happened?

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Michael is, of course, correct, but please note the part about financially supported by those using the site.

 

Doesn’t take much per person, but it does take $$ to support it.

 

Schuyler

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 7:13 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Fallen flags web-site...What happened?

 

 

 

 

There's more to the story, but he's changing host companies and hopes to present a more refined site that can be financially supported by those using the site.

 

                ....Mike Del Vecchio

-----Original Message-----
From: amwing1588@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Mon, Jul 7, 2014 7:06 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Fallen flags web-site...What happened?

 

Hi all,

Went to do some research on Geroge Elwoods "Fallen Flags" www.rr-fallenflags.org. ; web-site and found that it is no longer up and running. Any one know what happened?

John Miller
Folsom, CA.

 


Re: Alan wood running boards (was Tread on lateral roof walks)

Armand Premo
 


Thank you very much.A.Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Alan wood running boards (was Tread on lateral roof walks)

 

There is a photo of RDG 18700 in TS 75 page 395. It shows the roofwalk and no laterals. Also in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia vol #3 page 37 is a model color paint guide for steam era freight cars. It shows a Floquill formula of 50% #74 and #186. Of course now that Foquill is no longer available about any Red Brown mix will work.


On Monday, July 7, 2014 1:27 PM, "'A Premo' armprem2@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
As an aside,what color would be a match for Reading Boxcars in the steam era? Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Alan wood running boards (was Tread on lateral roof walks)

 


Eric do you know of any photos online of these treadplate lateral roof panels? They sound really weird.
I would think they'd be more susceptible to ice build-up than the raised laterals with holes cut into them.

Tim O'



They were integral least as far as the RDG box and caboose cars were concerned. The running boad wa a separate piece, but if you took it away, there would be a gaping hole down the middle of the roof. Likewise, the end platfrorms were simply roof panels made from diamond plate. Tim would be correct for some RDG covered hopper cars such as LOc. Those running boards are mounted on brackets like any typical running board. Since they are not an integral part of the roof, they have a number of drainage slots.
 
Eric N.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: mailto:timboconnor@...%20[STMFC]
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2014 8:01 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Alan wood running boards (was Tread on lateral roof walks)

I don't think the Alan Wood running boards were 'integral' with
the roof, i.e. I don't think they formed part of the roof itself.
Here is the 1940 patent for the Alan Wood box car running boards, which
is perforated steel tread plate.

http://www.google.com/patents/US2279756
And here is the 1930 patent for the Alan Wood tank car running boards,
also perforated steel tread plate.

http://www.google.com/patents/US1889605
Tim O'Connor
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3986/7813 - Release Date: 07/07/14


Re: Fallen flags web-site...What happened?

MDelvec952
 



There's more to the story, but he's changing host companies and hopes to present a more refined site that can be financially supported by those using the site.

                ....Mike Del Vecchio


-----Original Message-----
From: amwing1588@... [STMFC] To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Jul 7, 2014 7:06 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Fallen flags web-site...What happened?

 
Hi all,

Went to do some research on Geroge Elwoods "Fallen Flags" www.rr-fallenflags.org. ; web-site and found that it is no longer up and running. Any one know what happened?

John Miller
Folsom, CA.


Re: NYC car type?

Seth Lakin
 

Clark as Dave pointed out, NYC boxcar characteristics of the day included the tow lugs at the bolsters. I use Detail Associates 1106 Alco PA/FA lift rings, they need a little squeeze to narrow them down a bit. I see that DA also offers a #6214 roping rings, they look the same as the lift rings but I don't have any to measure the difference, the LHS only stocks DA diesel parts so that is what usually comes home.
 
Also one detail that are on NYC boxcars that are not represented on the Branchline kit are polling pockets. I drill them into the ends with a 1/16 drill. Be careful, one quarter twist too far, you'll end up with a hole instead of a cup. I show this technique in my article on modeling a NYC lot 858-B boxcar that is slated to run in the next (Sept or Oct) NYCModeler, the free modeling ezine from the New York Central System Historical Society.
 
Decals are a little hard to find. I suggest CDS dry transfer #459 which is for a NYC lot 763-B boxcar. While not quite the same, the data should be all correct, as it is an identical boxcar, just from a different builder. If you want a jade green car, Microscale should have everything you need.
 
Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN
Member NYCHS Modeler's Committee
 
 
 
 

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