Date   

Re: MN&S box cars before the PS-1s

Tim O'Connor
 


MNS is an industrial line in the Minneapolis area. Something must have changed
in the late 1940's and they needed a reliable supply of box cars -- they continued
to buy box cars and even covered hoppers long into the post-STMFC era.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneapolis,_Northfield_and_Southern_Railway

Tim O'



I have never seen a photo of an MN&S box car before the orders of the
PS-1s. Did the line not have any SS or DS cars, or for that matter
earlier steel cars, before ordering the PS-1 cars?

Tom,
Predating the earliest MNS PS-1s, the April 1951 ORER has a short 1/3 page entry for the Minneapolis, Northfield and Southern Ry. It states "Freight cars owned are not employed in Commercial Service." At this time the MNS operated 74 miles of road and had 8 diesel locomotives, but there is no listing of freight equipment.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Thanks. Yes, I have the article and have collected photos of the cars. I just didn't get around to comparing the kits and photos yet.

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Jul 13, 2014, at 11:13 PM, "Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton smokeandsteam@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 



Is the F&C kit accurate for the Southern's steel end version?  I made a lot of assumptions in the past when purchasing kits, and now, after a few months on this list, I'm questioning a lot more than I used to do.

Dave Bott

 
Hi Dave
 
Yes - good to go - nice little kits and accurate and remarkably easy to build.  Scribing the insides and fitting weights to them is a bit of a challenge if you want empties, but that's about the worst thing I can say.
 
Do you have a copy of the article published in the old SHRS Southern Rails about 20-25 years ago?
 
Aidrian


Re: MN&S box cars before the PS-1s

Ed Hawkins
 

On Jul 15, 2014, at 10:51 AM, Tom Baker bakert@... [STMFC] wrote:

I have never seen a photo of an MN&S box car before the orders of the
PS-1s. Did the line not have any SS or DS cars, or for that matter
earlier steel cars, before ordering the PS-1 cars?
Tom,
Predating the earliest MNS PS-1s, the April 1951 ORER has a short 1/3 page entry for the Minneapolis, Northfield and Southern Ry. It states "Freight cars owned are not employed in Commercial Service." At this time the MNS operated 74 miles of road and had 8 diesel locomotives, but there is no listing of freight equipment.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: MN&S box cars before the PS-1s

John Barry
 

Tom,

MN&S is not listed as an assigned reporting mark in my Oct 45 ORER.  What RR is it assigned to?  I can check the list of participating carriers and the OG for them.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "Tom Baker bakert@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 8:51 AM
Subject: [STMFC] RE: MN&S box cars before the PS-1s

 

Group,

I have never seen a photo of an MN&S box car before the orders of the
PS-1s. Did the line not have any SS or DS cars, or for that matter
earlier steel cars, before ordering the PS-1 cars?

Tom Baker

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Re: MN&S box cars before the PS-1s

Thomas Baker
 

Group,

I have never seen a photo of an MN&S box car before the orders of the PS-1s. Did the line not have any SS or DS cars, or for that matter earlier steel cars, before ordering the PS-1 cars?

Tom Baker

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Re: Vent car question

palmettoltd82
 

The 500 ACL Class O-15 DS vents (Nos. 43735-44234)should also to be added to the list.  Although they did not start out as USRA DS boxcars, like the FEC cars, they were "USRA DS clones" with the exception of having 7/8 ends, Wine ventilators in the ends, and side vent doors.  Westerfield sells kits of these cars.


Off topic but somewhat related to the discussion of ventilated boxcars, a measure of the ACL's dedication to the ventilated boxcar can be demonstrated by the fact that in 1946 the railroad selected 10 Class O-25 steel boxcars (Nos. 21230-21239) and converted them to ventilated boxcars by applying wine ventilators in the upper panel of the dreadnaught ends and ventilated doors to the side.  Unfortunately, neither photographs nor ACL correspondence indicating if the experiment was a success have surfaced to date.


Buddy Hill

Ravenel, SC


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

Ray Breyer
 

Ray,
Based upon my research from other B&O documents listing their rosters the series:
"Sandy Creek Coal Co. 131700-131799, Baltimore Steel Car & Foundry 1907, HG copies, to B&O, 1907-1908."
The coal company should be the Sunday Creek Coal Co.
See "Fifty Years of B&O Rosters" a B&OHS reprint. The information in Daniels Summaries of the B&O S of E and ORER states "Sy. Ck."
I can send you a scan of the page if you provide your email.
Regards,
Bob Witt
 
 
Hi Bob,
 
I used several sources when tabulating my Seley hopper roster, but the only original source B&O information I have is the B&O's car diagram page for the N-11 class hoppers. It says that cars 130020-131699 were originally "Fairmount Coal Co. 3000-3499", and cars 131700-131799 were "Sandy Creek Coal Co. 131700-131799".
 
That said, "Fairmount" is 100% wrong, based on a photo I have of the cars. The company name really WAS "Fairmont". So it's entirely possible that the other coal company is ALSO spelled incorrectly on the B&O sheet.
 
So I'd love to have a copy of what you have, especially if it's original source material. My email address is below. Thanks for the offer!
 
Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL
rtbsvrr69@...


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

palmettoltd82
 

My 1941 ORER shows 27 cars (series 80204-80675) remaining on the roster.  Bob's Photos has an undated photo that shows a Class K-3 "Seley" car renumbered to a MOW number series (No. 67767) and assigned to cinder service at Fayetteville NC.  The photograph was obviously taken in the late 40s-early 50s so they lasted at least that long in MOW service on the ACL.


Buddy Hill

Ravenel, SC


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


I have these as part of 3,000 cars ordered by Consol. Coal Co. in 2-06.
Fairmont Coal 3000-4699 became B&O 130000-131699. I suspect the Sunday Creek cars may have been numbered 4700-4999. Can you confirm this?
 
The other 1,000 cars were Somerset Coal/Cumberland & Pa. 5000-5999.
 
Does anyone have month-year built for any specific cars?
 
Eric N.
 
 

Ray,

Based upon my research from other B&O documents listing their rosters the series:

"Sandy Creek Coal Co. 131700-131799, Baltimore Steel Car & Foundry 1907, HG copies, to B&O, 1907-1908."

The coal company should be the Sunday Creek Coal Co.

See "Fifty Years of B&O Rosters" a B&OHS reprint. The information in Daniels Summaries of the B&O S of E and ORER states "Sy. Ck."

I can send you a scan of the page if you provide your email.

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

rwitt_2000
 

Ray,

Based upon my research from other B&O documents listing their rosters the series:

"Sandy Creek Coal Co. 131700-131799, Baltimore Steel Car & Foundry 1907, HG copies, to B&O, 1907-1908."

The coal company should be the Sunday Creek Coal Co.

See "Fifty Years of B&O Rosters" a B&OHS reprint. The information in Daniels Summaries of the B&O S of E and ORER states "Sy. Ck."

I can send you a scan of the page if you provide your email.

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: Color of Paper Used to Seal doors for Grain Shipments

ron christensen
 

Dan 
could you E mail me off list about grain doors
Ron Christensen


Re: All-time (?) Seley Hopper Roster

David
 

List looks good. Only thing I'd add is that I believe Southern rebuilt most of their early steel hoppers into Seley-type cars around WW1.

David Thompson


Re: Vent car question

David
 

FEC was assigned 500 single-sheathed boxes in the initial USRA allocation list. The allocations were shuffled several times during 1918-20, and FEC eventually received the 500 USRA ds-based ventilators in May 1920.

David Thompson


Re: Save me some time maybe

Tim O'Connor
 

Speaking of slack adjusters -- If anyone has been looking for Royal F slack adjusters
(popular with the Santa Fe) they can be found -- in cast metal no less -- in the old
Pacific Ho/Silver Streak/Golden Spike refrigerator car kits.

Just an FYI.

Tim O'Connor

Guys,
Does anyone recall which Speedwitch Media boxcar kit had a Universal
slack adjustor?
An answer would save me rooting through a myriad of boxes.
Thanks
Pierre Oliver


Re: Vent car question

Benjamin Hom
 

Dave Nelson asked:
"Were any USRA boxcars converted to Ventilator cars?"
 
Yes, in a roundabout way.  ACL 1850-1899, USRA DS boxcars rebuilt to Class O-14B steel express ventilated boxcars.  These were the subject of an early Sunshine Models kit:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun03b.pdf
 
FEC ordered 40 ft DS ventilated boxcars modified from the USRA DS design, but these were built new as ventilated boxcars and not conversions from existing cars.  FEC wasn't allotted any USRA boxcars.  HO scale model available from Westerfield. 
https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=54
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

water.kresse@...
 

Ray,
 
Thanks for the feedback.
 
These cars had Bettendorf open T-section sideframe trucks.  I believe they kind of "beat the crap" out of all their wooden body flat-bottom and hopper-bottomed gondola cars using them for moving limestone and iron ore.  That industry died in the 1923-1926 timeframe.  I believe their 50-ton trucks went under 40-ton box cars having arch-bar trucks for a few more years.

I would like to see a scan of their CBC drwg some day.
 
Al Kresse

From: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
To: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 2:42:49 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Seley Hopper ca. 1944

 

Did any of the l&n or ACL cars survive to a later date?  Or did any SRR cars last to the 50's

Kevin Sprayberry


On Jul 14, 2014, at 1:59 PM, "Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 
>C&Os were gone from Revenue Svc  by 1940???
>Al Kresse
 
 
Hi Al,
 
Actually, they were gone LONG before WWII.
 
The C&O cars were in the 20810-20999 number series. In 1913, there were 170 of these cars, in 1917, 149 cars, but by January 1925 the number series was gone, as were any hoppers with the identical dimensions. The cars MAY have been renumbered, but why would the car dimensions have changed in the ORER so drastically to make them untraceable?
 
Overall, Seley hoppers weren't very durable, which is why they barely lasted 25 years on the N&W, and as a car type really didn't survive the Depression, except for the late-built Southern cars. I think that's one huge reason why most in this hobby haven't paid a whole lot of attention to the cars, since they're mostly "off the radar" long before the time that most of the mainstream herd models.
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



Vent car question

Dave Nelson
 

Were any USRA boxcars converted to Ventilator cars?

 

Dave Nelson


Re: Santa Fe Heralds

michaelegross <michaelEGross@...>
 

Thanks for these notes on Microscale, John!


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

Benjamin Hom
 

Kevin Sprayberry asked:
Did any of the L&N or ACL cars survive to a later date?  Or did any SRR cars last to the 50's?"
 
Go back to your inbox and pull up Ray Breyer's post "[STMFC] All-time (?) Seley Hopper Roster" posted at 11:59 AM today. 
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

csxt5555
 

Did any of the l&n or ACL cars survive to a later date?  Or did any SRR cars last to the 50's

Kevin Sprayberry


On Jul 14, 2014, at 1:59 PM, "Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 
>C&Os were gone from Revenue Svc  by 1940???
>Al Kresse
 
 
Hi Al,
 
Actually, they were gone LONG before WWII.
 
The C&O cars were in the 20810-20999 number series. In 1913, there were 170 of these cars, in 1917, 149 cars, but by January 1925 the number series was gone, as were any hoppers with the identical dimensions. The cars MAY have been renumbered, but why would the car dimensions have changed in the ORER so drastically to make them untraceable?
 
Overall, Seley hoppers weren't very durable, which is why they barely lasted 25 years on the N&W, and as a car type really didn't survive the Depression, except for the late-built Southern cars. I think that's one huge reason why most in this hobby haven't paid a whole lot of attention to the cars, since they're mostly "off the radar" long before the time that most of the mainstream herd models.
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

70961 - 70980 of 197047