Date   

Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

Ray Breyer
 

Ray,
Based upon my research from other B&O documents listing their rosters the series:
"Sandy Creek Coal Co. 131700-131799, Baltimore Steel Car & Foundry 1907, HG copies, to B&O, 1907-1908."
The coal company should be the Sunday Creek Coal Co.
See "Fifty Years of B&O Rosters" a B&OHS reprint. The information in Daniels Summaries of the B&O S of E and ORER states "Sy. Ck."
I can send you a scan of the page if you provide your email.
Regards,
Bob Witt
 
 
Hi Bob,
 
I used several sources when tabulating my Seley hopper roster, but the only original source B&O information I have is the B&O's car diagram page for the N-11 class hoppers. It says that cars 130020-131699 were originally "Fairmount Coal Co. 3000-3499", and cars 131700-131799 were "Sandy Creek Coal Co. 131700-131799".
 
That said, "Fairmount" is 100% wrong, based on a photo I have of the cars. The company name really WAS "Fairmont". So it's entirely possible that the other coal company is ALSO spelled incorrectly on the B&O sheet.
 
So I'd love to have a copy of what you have, especially if it's original source material. My email address is below. Thanks for the offer!
 
Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL
rtbsvrr69@...


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

palmettoltd82
 

My 1941 ORER shows 27 cars (series 80204-80675) remaining on the roster.  Bob's Photos has an undated photo that shows a Class K-3 "Seley" car renumbered to a MOW number series (No. 67767) and assigned to cinder service at Fayetteville NC.  The photograph was obviously taken in the late 40s-early 50s so they lasted at least that long in MOW service on the ACL.


Buddy Hill

Ravenel, SC


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


I have these as part of 3,000 cars ordered by Consol. Coal Co. in 2-06.
Fairmont Coal 3000-4699 became B&O 130000-131699. I suspect the Sunday Creek cars may have been numbered 4700-4999. Can you confirm this?
 
The other 1,000 cars were Somerset Coal/Cumberland & Pa. 5000-5999.
 
Does anyone have month-year built for any specific cars?
 
Eric N.
 
 

Ray,

Based upon my research from other B&O documents listing their rosters the series:

"Sandy Creek Coal Co. 131700-131799, Baltimore Steel Car & Foundry 1907, HG copies, to B&O, 1907-1908."

The coal company should be the Sunday Creek Coal Co.

See "Fifty Years of B&O Rosters" a B&OHS reprint. The information in Daniels Summaries of the B&O S of E and ORER states "Sy. Ck."

I can send you a scan of the page if you provide your email.

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

rwitt_2000
 

Ray,

Based upon my research from other B&O documents listing their rosters the series:

"Sandy Creek Coal Co. 131700-131799, Baltimore Steel Car & Foundry 1907, HG copies, to B&O, 1907-1908."

The coal company should be the Sunday Creek Coal Co.

See "Fifty Years of B&O Rosters" a B&OHS reprint. The information in Daniels Summaries of the B&O S of E and ORER states "Sy. Ck."

I can send you a scan of the page if you provide your email.

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: Color of Paper Used to Seal doors for Grain Shipments

ron christensen
 

Dan 
could you E mail me off list about grain doors
Ron Christensen


Re: All-time (?) Seley Hopper Roster

David
 

List looks good. Only thing I'd add is that I believe Southern rebuilt most of their early steel hoppers into Seley-type cars around WW1.

David Thompson


Re: Vent car question

David
 

FEC was assigned 500 single-sheathed boxes in the initial USRA allocation list. The allocations were shuffled several times during 1918-20, and FEC eventually received the 500 USRA ds-based ventilators in May 1920.

David Thompson


Re: Save me some time maybe

Tim O'Connor
 

Speaking of slack adjusters -- If anyone has been looking for Royal F slack adjusters
(popular with the Santa Fe) they can be found -- in cast metal no less -- in the old
Pacific Ho/Silver Streak/Golden Spike refrigerator car kits.

Just an FYI.

Tim O'Connor

Guys,
Does anyone recall which Speedwitch Media boxcar kit had a Universal
slack adjustor?
An answer would save me rooting through a myriad of boxes.
Thanks
Pierre Oliver


Re: Vent car question

Benjamin Hom
 

Dave Nelson asked:
"Were any USRA boxcars converted to Ventilator cars?"
 
Yes, in a roundabout way.  ACL 1850-1899, USRA DS boxcars rebuilt to Class O-14B steel express ventilated boxcars.  These were the subject of an early Sunshine Models kit:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun03b.pdf
 
FEC ordered 40 ft DS ventilated boxcars modified from the USRA DS design, but these were built new as ventilated boxcars and not conversions from existing cars.  FEC wasn't allotted any USRA boxcars.  HO scale model available from Westerfield. 
https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=54
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

water.kresse@...
 

Ray,
 
Thanks for the feedback.
 
These cars had Bettendorf open T-section sideframe trucks.  I believe they kind of "beat the crap" out of all their wooden body flat-bottom and hopper-bottomed gondola cars using them for moving limestone and iron ore.  That industry died in the 1923-1926 timeframe.  I believe their 50-ton trucks went under 40-ton box cars having arch-bar trucks for a few more years.

I would like to see a scan of their CBC drwg some day.
 
Al Kresse

From: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
To: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 2:42:49 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Seley Hopper ca. 1944

 

Did any of the l&n or ACL cars survive to a later date?  Or did any SRR cars last to the 50's

Kevin Sprayberry


On Jul 14, 2014, at 1:59 PM, "Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 
>C&Os were gone from Revenue Svc  by 1940???
>Al Kresse
 
 
Hi Al,
 
Actually, they were gone LONG before WWII.
 
The C&O cars were in the 20810-20999 number series. In 1913, there were 170 of these cars, in 1917, 149 cars, but by January 1925 the number series was gone, as were any hoppers with the identical dimensions. The cars MAY have been renumbered, but why would the car dimensions have changed in the ORER so drastically to make them untraceable?
 
Overall, Seley hoppers weren't very durable, which is why they barely lasted 25 years on the N&W, and as a car type really didn't survive the Depression, except for the late-built Southern cars. I think that's one huge reason why most in this hobby haven't paid a whole lot of attention to the cars, since they're mostly "off the radar" long before the time that most of the mainstream herd models.
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



Vent car question

Dave Nelson
 

Were any USRA boxcars converted to Ventilator cars?

 

Dave Nelson


Re: Santa Fe Heralds

michaelegross <michaelEGross@...>
 

Thanks for these notes on Microscale, John!


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

Benjamin Hom
 

Kevin Sprayberry asked:
Did any of the L&N or ACL cars survive to a later date?  Or did any SRR cars last to the 50's?"
 
Go back to your inbox and pull up Ray Breyer's post "[STMFC] All-time (?) Seley Hopper Roster" posted at 11:59 AM today. 
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

csxt5555
 

Did any of the l&n or ACL cars survive to a later date?  Or did any SRR cars last to the 50's

Kevin Sprayberry


On Jul 14, 2014, at 1:59 PM, "Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 
>C&Os were gone from Revenue Svc  by 1940???
>Al Kresse
 
 
Hi Al,
 
Actually, they were gone LONG before WWII.
 
The C&O cars were in the 20810-20999 number series. In 1913, there were 170 of these cars, in 1917, 149 cars, but by January 1925 the number series was gone, as were any hoppers with the identical dimensions. The cars MAY have been renumbered, but why would the car dimensions have changed in the ORER so drastically to make them untraceable?
 
Overall, Seley hoppers weren't very durable, which is why they barely lasted 25 years on the N&W, and as a car type really didn't survive the Depression, except for the late-built Southern cars. I think that's one huge reason why most in this hobby haven't paid a whole lot of attention to the cars, since they're mostly "off the radar" long before the time that most of the mainstream herd models.
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

Ray Breyer
 

C&Os were gone from Revenue Svc  by 1940???
Al Kresse
 
Hi Al,
 
Actually, they were gone LONG before WWII.
 
The C&O cars were in the 20810-20999 number series. In 1913, there were 170 of these cars, in 1917, 149 cars, but by January 1925 the number series was gone, as were any hoppers with the identical dimensions. The cars MAY have been renumbered, but why would the car dimensions have changed in the ORER so drastically to make them untraceable?
 
Overall, Seley hoppers weren't very durable, which is why they barely lasted 25 years on the N&W, and as a car type really didn't survive the Depression, except for the late-built Southern cars. I think that's one huge reason why most in this hobby haven't paid a whole lot of attention to the cars, since they're mostly "off the radar" long before the time that most of the mainstream herd models.
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

O Fenton Wells
 

Didn't they also use them for the clay hoppers as well?


On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 12:55 PM, george eichelberger geichelberger@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
I cannot say how generic the Southern’s version of these cars was but if people are interested, I can accumulate all of the various drawings in the SRHA Archives and put a package together. Jim King used some of them for his kit.

PS The Southern thought so much of the ratchet and chains arrangement for the drop bottom doors, they used exactly the same drawings for their box car to wood chip conversions. As I was recording the drawing numbers, I thought there was an error because the drawing numbers for the doors jumped backward in time many years.

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--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Message from Sandra Hendrickson

Mikebrock
 

Guys,
I received a phone call from Sandra Hendrickson, Richard's wife, today in which she asked me to pass to the group her sincere thanks for the many complimentary messages about Richard that have been posted on the STMFC. Sandra asked me to place Richard's STMFC account in a No Email category on the STMFC because, of course, the many messages associated with freight cars are of little interest to her and not within her knowledge base.

Considering the situation, she seemed to be holding up well.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

George Eichelberger
 

I cannot say how generic the Southern’s version of these cars was but if people are interested, I can accumulate all of the various drawings in the SRHA Archives and put a package together. Jim King used some of them for his kit.

PS The Southern thought so much of the ratchet and chains arrangement for the drop bottom doors, they used exactly the same drawings for their box car to wood chip conversions. As I was recording the drawing numbers, I thought there was an error because the drawing numbers for the doors jumped backward in time many years.


Re: All-time (?) Seley Hopper Roster

water.kresse@...
 

Ray,
 
Thanks!
 
The end of C&O in 1924 corresponded with the dramatic decline in blast furnaces in western Virginia after WW1.
 
Island Creek cars were built by South Baltimore Car and Foundry 7-1906 thru 7-1907 to shuttle coal to their river barge loader I believe.
 
Al Kresse


From: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
To: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 11:59:15 AM
Subject: [STMFC] All-time (?) Seley Hopper Roster

 

Hi everyone,
 
At least once or twice a year, someone here asks about Seley hoppers. This got me to thinking about the car type (or more properly, the car TYPES), and I started looking into the available data. As far as I can tell, no one has ever come up with a complete roster of every Seley hopper ever built, so I've had to make one myself. Here's a quick breakdown of who owned them, and when:
 
 
AB&A 57300-57557, ACF? 1925, Southern copies, 1925-1945 (AB&C after 1926, cars to ACL after 1945).
ACL 80200-80699, 1909, HH copies, 1910-1938.
ACL 84000-84211, ex-AB&C cars, 1945-1950.
B&M 5900-5999, Standard Steel 1905, D&H copies, 1906-1929.
B&O 27000-27999, Standard Steel 1918, class N-16, HG copies, 1918-1927.
B&O 28000-28999, B&O Shops 1926, class N-16a (rebuilds of 27000s with conventional hoppers), 1925-1940.
B&O 29000, B&O Shops 1939, class N-16b (rebuild of a single N-16a with steel sides), 1939-1944.
B&O 30000-30254, class N-11, ex-Coal & Coke, 1926-1931.
B&O 130020-131699, class N-11, ex-Fairmont Coal Co., 1908-1931.
B&O 131700-131999, class N-11, ex-Sandy Creek Coal Co., 1908-1924.
B&S 9801-10000, 1907, HG copies, 1908-1940.
C&O 20810-20999, ex-Island Creek Coal Co., 1913-1924.
Coal & Coke 5001-5300, Baltimore Steel Car & Foundry 1906, HG copies, to B&O, 1906-1926.
CRI&P 89750-89999, 1907, HG copies, 1907-1940.
C&PA 5000-5999, 1907, HG copies, 1907-1946.
C&PA 7000-7027, 1927, HG copies (either rebuilds of 5000s or new company-built cars), 1927-1946.
D&H 4412-4563, ACF 1906-1907, D&H type, 1906-1933.
D&H 4564-6563, ACF 1906-1907, D&H type, 1906-1933.
D&H 25000-28999, ACF 1906-1907, D&H type, 1906-1933.
D&H 1001-1151, D&H Shops (rebuilds), 1934-1950.
D&H 1152-2250, D&H Shops (rebuilds), 1934-1958.
D&H 4401-4611, D&H Shops (rebuilds), 1934-1958.
D&H 6851-11450, D&H Shops (rebuilds), 1934-1959.
D&H 11451-11600, D&H Shops (rebuilds), 1934-1944.
D&H 11601-14000, D&H Shops (rebuilds), 1934-1949.
Deepwater Coal Co. 10001-10499 (odds), 1905, HG copies, to Virginian, 1905-1919.
Fairmont Coal Co. 3000-4999, Baltimore Steel Car & Foundry 1906, HG copies, to B&O, 1906-1908.
GB&W 4037-4075, ex-Virginian/Deepwater cars bought used, 1926-1948.
GM&O 31000-31549, ex-M&O, 1938-1951.
M&O 31000-31549, ACF? 1926, Southern copies, 1926-1938.
Island Creek Coal Co., 1909, HG copies, to C&O, 1909-1913.
L&HR 1200-1449, 1908, HJ copies, 1908-1942.
L&N 37501-37750 (renumbered 85501-85749 mid-1906), L&N Shops 1902, HG copies, 1902-1935.
L&N 38600-38799, Pressed Steel 1910, HH copies, 1910-1932.
L&N 38800-38999, Ralston 1912, HH copies, 1912-1951.
L&N 80600-81099, AC&F and Mt. Vernon 1911, HG copies, 1911-1942.
L&N 81100-81599, Pressed Steel 1912, HG copies, 1912-1943.
L&N 81600-82199, Pressed Steel 1913, HG copies, 1913-1943.
N&W 13000-13949, N&W Shops and ACF? 1901-1902, class HH & HK, 1901-1926.
N&W 50000-59999, ACF and Middleton 1905, class HJ, 1905-1926.
N&W 73000-73449, N&W Shops 1900-1901, class HG, 1900-1926.
NC&StL 13000-13099, ACF 1908, HH copies, 1908-1925.
NC&StL 13100-13199, 1908, HG copies, 1908-1925.
NKP 92800-92804, ex-TStL&W, 1924-1933.
NKP 92900-92939, ex-TStL&W, 1924-1933.
NS 6800-6849, possibly leased from the Southern, 1926-1932.
NYO&W 15001-16350, ACF 1910, D&H copies, 1910-1949.
Seaboard 30000-30999 (renumbered 90000-90564 in 1925), ACF 1905, HH copies, 1905-1932.
Sandy Creek Coal Co. 131700-131799, Baltimore Steel Car & Foundry 1907, HG copies, to B&O, 1907-1908.
SLSF 80400-80899, ACF 1910, HJ copies, 1910-1926 (cars rebuilt to all steel).
SLSF 80900-80999, ACF 1905, HG copies, 1905-1926 (cars rebuilt to all steel).
SLSF 81000-81299, ACF 1905, HJ copies, 1905-1930 (cars rebuilt to all steel).
Southern 100000-102204, HG copies, 1926-1943.
Southern 103000-104499, HG copies, 1926-1957.
Southern 105000-106999, ACF 1905, HJ copies, 1905-1934.
Southern/CNO&TP 282100-283964, ACF 1923, HG copies, 1923-1958.
Southern/CNO&TP 284000-284149, HG copies, 1924-1944.
Southern/CNO&TP 284150-284399, HG copies, 1924-1959.
Southern 321998-321999, HG copies, 1935?
(only listed in the ORER for one year)
Southern/AGS 322000-322999, HG copies, 1924-1942.
TStL&W 2800-2804, Clover Leaf Shops 1917, HH copies, to NKP, 1917-1924.
TStL&W 2900-2939, bought used (unknown source), HG copies, to NKP, 1920-1924.
Virginian 10001-10499, ex-Deepwater, 1917-1926.
 
(Most Seleys running: 22,055 cars in 1926)
(30 different road names total, among three basic car types)
 
 
Charles Seley only actually designed two types of composite hoppers: the three hopper HG/HJ cars in 1900, and the smaller, two hopper HH/HK cars in 1901. He also "designed" the Rock Island's Seley hoppers, by handing them a set of plans for the HG type cars. The D&H cars are usually called Seley hoppers, and do share the same basic design elements, but I can't find any evidence that he actually had a hand in their development. In general, with only minor dimensional differences among the 23 original owners of these cars, all "Seley hoppers" were based on either the N&W HH or HG cars, or the D&H's design.
 
 
This is just a quick rundown of the car type; I've tracked down photos, plans and/or elevation drawings for many of these cars, and have traced their ORER numbers from 1900-1959 to come up with a full database on these cars. I'm sure I've missed a few cars here and there, so if anyone's got any data that I've missed, I'd love to see it!
 
Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

water.kresse@...
 

C&Os were gone from Revenue Svc  by 1940???
 
Al Kresse


From: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
To: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 10:46:57 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Seley Hopper ca. 1944

 

>Seeing that Sealy hopper got me thinking.  What other roads beside Southern had these type cars?
>Kevin Sprayberry
 
 
In the 1940s? A few:
 
AB&C
ACL (ex-AB&C)
B&O
CP&A
D&H
GB&W
GM&O
L&HR
L&N
N&W (in company service only after 1926)
NYO&W
 
The ACL cars made it to 1950, the GM&O cars to 1951, and the D&H and Southern cars made it to right around 1960 (the D&H rebuilt their cars in the mid-1930s, so they didn't look much like Seley hoppers).
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


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