Date   

Re: Basic Boxcar Decals

David Sieber
 

In STMFC, Ian Clasper said: You are aware of Ted Culotta's resurrected Speedwitch Media. He has a line of Steam Era decals which are excellent. These may provide what you are looking for.
 
Ian,
     Ted's decals (and model kits) are indeed outstanding.  One example that could illustrate my suggestion is Speedwitch D113: A&WP, WofA and GA 1937 and War Emergency Boxcars, which can letter up to four cars.  Ted Culotta, Tom Stolte, Jerry Glow, and Rick Leach, plus several others who've contributed to the Protocraft decal line, have demonstrated their ability to develop excellent decal artwork; I however, do not possess that skill.  (My current software challenge is learning Sketchup...)
     My earlier post was an attempt to build upon John Barry's suggestion from my understanding of what he was looking for.  He inspired me to consider alternatives for how that suggested decal series might look and then lay those out for discussion; did I understand him correctly, and what do others on STMFC think about those options?  Most important is what might be economically supportable; I've offered my opinion, but one man's opinion rarely constitutes a viable market.
     What might please many of us on this List would be for Protocraft to release more of their extensive 1:48 decal line in 1:87.  When I spoke with them last year, the answer was straightforward; from their experience with those decals that they'd previously printed in HO, the demand could not support either reprinting or additional new printing -- unless someone were to fully fund the setup and a minimum run from MicroScale (250 sheets, IIRC?).  While a railroad historical society or similar group conceivably might invest in such an project, it's not feasible for this retiree on a fixed income.
Dave Sieber, Reno NV   



Re: MN&S box cars before the PS-1s

Thomas Baker
 

Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC] wrote:
I do have a photo of a URTX wood refrigerator car leased to the MN&S. The photo was taken, I believe, in Washington, D.C. or near there during the late Forties. Wonder why the MN&S leased refrigerator cars and where they operated. Years earlier the MN&S leased or purchased express refrigerator cars. I am not sure of the time period but guess it was during the late teen years or early Twenties of the previous century. Again, I wonder where those cars operated.
Tom Baker




The December, 1930 ORER contains the following equipment for the MN&S:
50' reefers - 20 cars
36' flats - 41 cars
40' flats - 1 car
40' auto boxs - 2 cars
34' boxcars - 15 cars
36' boxcars - 10 cars
40' boxcars - 10 cars
Work cars - 3
Cabooses - 10
Passenger cars - 5
Gas-Electrics - 4
Steam Engines - 12
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

*From:* "John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]"
<STMFC@...>
*To:* "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 15, 2014 11:46 AM
*Subject:* Re: [STMFC] RE: MN&S box cars before the PS-1s



Tom,

Thanks to Ed's ID, I found a similar note in the Oct 45 ORER. The
Loco mix was different though: 2 gasoline electric, 10 coal
burning and one diesel for a total of 13.
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682



*From:* "Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC]"
<STMFC@...>
*To:* STMFC@...
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 15, 2014 9:22 AM
*Subject:* Re: [STMFC] RE: MN&S box cars before the PS-1s




On Jul 15, 2014, at 10:51 AM, Tom Baker bakert@...
<mailto:bakert@...> [STMFC]
wrote:

> I have never seen a photo of an MN&S box car before the orders
of the
> PS-1s. Did the line not have any SS or DS cars, or for that matter
> earlier steel cars, before ordering the PS-1 cars?

Tom,

Predating the earliest MNS PS-1s, the April 1951 ORER has a short 1/3
page entry for the Minneapolis, Northfield and Southern Ry. It states
"Freight cars owned are not employed in Commercial Service." At this
time the MNS operated 74 miles of road and had 8 diesel locomotives,
but there is no listing of freight equipment.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins










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Re: Basic Boxcar Decals

Tim O'Connor
 


To add to Pierre's remark -- A significant number of Microscale sets are
based in part, or entirely, on artwork that has been DONATED (well, maybe
the artist gets decal sheets as payment) to them by people passionately
interested in getting accurate decals.

Therefore in this hobby, the rule is: If you really, really want it, then
you're probably going to have to make it happen. Once the artwork exists,
then you can think about how to get it printed -- Microscale or one of the
other commercial decal makers, or a custom decal printer like Rail Graphics.

For a while Jerry Glow was doing a bang up job creating artwork AND getting
small runs of decals printed for us, but I suspect we just overwhelmed him
with requests. He made wonderful sets for Soo and UP as well as a custom set
for me simply because I asked him to, and I am very grateful for it.

Tim O'Connor

--------------------------

 Dave,
 I say the following not to be smartass, but dead serious. If, as you say, you believe the market exists for what you're asking for, put together some samples of artwork and commit to the investment and I will help you get those sets onto the market.
 
Pierre Oliver



Re: Basic Boxcar Decals

Tony Thompson
 

Charlie Duckworth wrote:

The reporting marks and numbers, when you look close, are somewhat unique to a railroad.  How the Mopac designed their numbers don't match other roads as example.  

      Most railroads used lettering which was drawn up by draftsmen. Nowadays we are so accustomed to digital fonts that we assume all that lettering must have been some font. But not so. Just like signpainters in that era, each set of lettering could be, and often was, unique.
      The ARA and later the AAR did recommend a set of characters (you could think of it as a kind of font), but there are two things to recognize: first, very few railroads used it, and second, it is most assuredly not the "Railroad Roman" once beloved of decal makers.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Basic Boxcar Decals

ianclasper@...
 

You are aware of Ted Culotta's resurrected Speedwitch Media

He has a line of Steam Era decals which are excellent.

These may provide what you are looking for:

Ian Clasper

Decals | Speedwitch Media

 


Re: Basic Boxcar Decals

Thomas Baker
 

The discussion prompts me to ask: Is Tom Stolte, whose "Oddballs" line had a fine selection of forties and fifties decals as well as more recent ones, offering to sell the rights to produce the line, or has in anyone even inquired about such a possibility?

Tom Baker

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Re: Basic Boxcar Decals

Pierre Oliver
 

Dave,
I say the following not to be smartass, but dead serious. If, as you say, you believe the market exists for what you're asking for, put together some samples of artwork and commit to the investment and I will help you get those sets onto the market.
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 7/15/2014 6:19 PM, David Sieber ealabhan0@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

In STMFC@..., John Barry said:   With the demise of Champ and Sunshine, I missed out on their decal offerings.  Thumbing through the MicroScale catalog, I don't see a lot of pre-50 freight car offerings other than special schemes.  Yet the majority of box cars 25-55 ran with nothing more than ARA required data, reporting marks, and maybe a herald or the roadname.  Is there an interest in such a series of sheets?
 
John,
     I completely agree with you on the current scarcity of pre-1950 freight car decals, and would suggest that plain-Jane '50s and early '60s lettering is also tough to find.  While I do appreciate the eye-catching billboard and special schemes that MicroScale has offered, we definitely could use some basic lettering sheets with real, correct data.
     Many of MS's earlier offerings had generic data that did not match the prototypes they were meant to reproduce, or sometimes no data at all -- although in recent years, MS has issued much more accurate new sets and has updated some older ones, often with expert input from members of this and other RPM lists.  MS has issued a few data sets that help a bit (e.g., MC-5021, Misc GATC Airslide Data), but so far, most have been for more modern freight cars with higher '60s-on CAPY data, etc. 
     I believe there would be a market for either or both of the following:
          1.  Strictly data sets with common data specifically for AAR 1932 standard, '37 standard, modified '37 standard, and PS-1 boxcars (and similarly for common designs of single- and double-sheathed composite boxcars and steel boxcars from the '20s and '30s); and/or
          2.  Decal sets lettering various boxcars and auto/furniture cars of the '40s and '50s in common, plain vanilla schemes.  While MS has excellent sheets for the larger railroads, these could be for a number of smaller lines, perhaps most marketable if done by region; for example, a Southeastern Lines decal sheet of the plainer schemes of some or all of:  A&WP, WofA, Georgia, BS, CRR, GM&O, N&W, NS, S&A, VGN, etc.  They ain't fancy, but were still common, and most of us could use a few plain interchange boxcars from regions other than the one we model.  If done as reporting marks and road numbers with roadname lettering and simple heralds (if any), to match with AAR '37 data for these roads' number series, modified '37 data for these other roads, etc., most of us could make good use of all or most of such a decal sheet.
       Moreover, there's an additional market for correct and properly sized data sets among those of us who do have good collections of Champ (and Walthers) decals for cars of the '40s and '50s.  Champ's weight and dimensional data was commonly too large overall, in height, letter weight/thickness, and kerning/spacing, most likely due to constraints of their printing process.  Several times, I've mixed reasonably sized Champ roadname, reporting marks and road numbers, and herald decals with another manufacturer's properly sized data for a much more satisfying and presentable model.
     Bottom line:  I second the motion!
Dave Sieber, Reno NV



Re: Basic Boxcar Decals

David Sieber
 

In STMFC@..., John Barry said:   With the demise of Champ and Sunshine, I missed out on their decal offerings.  Thumbing through the MicroScale catalog, I don't see a lot of pre-50 freight car offerings other than special schemes.  Yet the majority of box cars 25-55 ran with nothing more than ARA required data, reporting marks, and maybe a herald or the roadname.  Is there an interest in such a series of sheets?
 
John,
     I completely agree with you on the current scarcity of pre-1950 freight car decals, and would suggest that plain-Jane '50s and early '60s lettering is also tough to find.  While I do appreciate the eye-catching billboard and special schemes that MicroScale has offered, we definitely could use some basic lettering sheets with real, correct data.
     Many of MS's earlier offerings had generic data that did not match the prototypes they were meant to reproduce, or sometimes no data at all -- although in recent years, MS has issued much more accurate new sets and has updated some older ones, often with expert input from members of this and other RPM lists.  MS has issued a few data sets that help a bit (e.g., MC-5021, Misc GATC Airslide Data), but so far, most have been for more modern freight cars with higher '60s-on CAPY data, etc. 
     I believe there would be a market for either or both of the following:
          1.  Strictly data sets with common data specifically for AAR 1932 standard, '37 standard, modified '37 standard, and PS-1 boxcars (and similarly for common designs of single- and double-sheathed composite boxcars and steel boxcars from the '20s and '30s); and/or
          2.  Decal sets lettering various boxcars and auto/furniture cars of the '40s and '50s in common, plain vanilla schemes.  While MS has excellent sheets for the larger railroads, these could be for a number of smaller lines, perhaps most marketable if done by region; for example, a Southeastern Lines decal sheet of the plainer schemes of some or all of:  A&WP, WofA, Georgia, BS, CRR, GM&O, N&W, NS, S&A, VGN, etc.  They ain't fancy, but were still common, and most of us could use a few plain interchange boxcars from regions other than the one we model.  If done as reporting marks and road numbers with roadname lettering and simple heralds (if any), to match with AAR '37 data for these roads' number series, modified '37 data for these other roads, etc., most of us could make good use of all or most of such a decal sheet.
       Moreover, there's an additional market for correct and properly sized data sets among those of us who do have good collections of Champ (and Walthers) decals for cars of the '40s and '50s.  Champ's weight and dimensional data was commonly too large overall, in height, letter weight/thickness, and kerning/spacing, most likely due to constraints of their printing process.  Several times, I've mixed reasonably sized Champ roadname, reporting marks and road numbers, and herald decals with another manufacturer's properly sized data for a much more satisfying and presentable model.
     Bottom line:  I second the motion!
Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Re: Patrick Cudahy 37' reefer

Jack Mullen
 

Caution! Cudahy Car Line (CRLX) reefers have nothing to do with Patrick Cudahy. The "Patrick Cudahy" brand and logo was used by Cudahy Brothers Co. of Cudahy Wis. Their car fleet, originally Cudahy's Milwaukee Refrigerator Line, was reorganized as the Northern Refrigerator Car Co., with shops at Cudahy Wis. In 1929, NRC was acquired by Merchants Despatch as Northern Refrigerator Line., operated separately until merged into MDT in 1962. Cudahy Bros ( remamed Patrick Cudahy Inc. in 1957) continued to lease its meat reefers from NRC. These had the standard NRC paint scheme of yellow-orangish sides and brownish freight car red ends and roof. Cudahy Car Lines was a different organization, owned and operated by Cudahy Packing Co., originally of South Omaha, Neb., which became one of the major nationwide meat packers. The description of Cudahy Car Lines / CRLX colors in previous notes is correct, at least for the late steam color film era, but does not apply to the "Patrick Cudahy" cars. Confusion between the different Cudahy packers and their car fleets has been a topic previously, and can be found by searching the list archive. Doug Harding and Roger Hinman have been especially helpful in sorting out the various Cudahys. Jack Mullen


Re: Basic Boxcar Decals

Charlie Duckworth
 

The reporting marks and numbers, when you look close, are somewhat unique to a railroad.  How the Mopac designed their numbers don't match other roads as example.  

 Building on your suggestion though I'd like to see a sheet of various weigh stations and dates with a light weight so the modeler can 'restencil' the tare weights as on the prototype.   Repack stencils by road would be nice as well.  

Charlie Duckworth


Basic Boxcar Decals

John Barry
 

With the demise of Champ and Sunshine, I missed out on their decal offerings.  Thumbing through the MicroScale catalog, I don't see a lot of pre-50 freight car offerings other than special schemes.  Yet the majority of box cars 25-55 ran with nothing more than ARA required data, reporting marks, and maybe a herald or the roadname.  Is there an interest in such a series of sheets?
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


Re: MicroScale 87-516 ATSF 40' box, curved line map

Tony Thompson
 

John Barry wrote:

 
This isn't the first time that MicroScale has updated their product to be more accurate.  I have a very old SL reefer sheet, 87-336, with a $2.00 list price.  I've had it since at least the early 80's if not earlier.  It has the incorrect modern herald, again I didn't notice till Sunday when I started to look for replacements.  MS had already fixed that one as the current sheet shows the correct herald and a different layout of slogans and maps.  They changed their zebra stripes and loco data to aluminum to match new evidence.  They completely redid their Scout passenger train set.  And those are only the Santa Fe examples that I have knowledge of.  There have to be a number of other updates for other roads, I just don't know enough about them to tell.

       John is correct. Microscale has corrected and updated a LOT of their sets. Pacific Fruit Express sets are just some of them (and that due to exhaustive research by Dick Harley).
Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: MicroScale 87-516 ATSF 40' box, curved line map

John Barry
 

For those of you wanting a correct set, 87-498 with the straight line map is in stock at MicroScale and does have the correct herald.  Straight line maps were applied from 4-40 to 47 so they were much much more common than the curved line versions that were only applied 1-4 of 40 and only to the Bx-32 and early Bx-33 & 34 Box cars.  Similarly small quantities of reefers got the CL map in black.  

I am getting a 498 sheet to replace the 516.  
 
This isn't the first time that MicroScale has updated their product to be more accurate.  I have a very old SL reefer sheet, 87-336, with a $2.00 list price.  I've had it since at least the early 80's if not earlier.  It has the incorrect modern herald, again I didn't notice till Sunday when I started to look for replacements.  MS had already fixed that one as the current sheet shows the correct herald and a different layout of slogans and maps.  They changed their zebra stripes and loco data to aluminum to match new evidence.  They completely redid their Scout passenger train set.  And those are only the Santa Fe examples that I have knowledge of.  There have to be a number of other updates for other roads, I just don't know enough about them to tell.

My previous posts were not meant to knock MS, just to alert you to the issue.  And it looks like MS has stepped up to fix it going forward.  I can strongly recommend their products, having used a lot of them in the past.  And this interaction has shown me they are very responsive in the customer service arena, another plus.

John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "BRIAN PAUL EHNI bpehni@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC List
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] MicroScale 87-516 ATSF 40' box, curved line map

 
Just emailed asking about them; will post the reply.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List
Reply-To: STMFC List
Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 at 12:21 PM
To: STMFC List
Subject: Re: [STMFC] MicroScale 87-516 ATSF 40' box, curved line map

On 7/15/2014 9:58 AM, John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC] wrote:


> the more modern style used after 1958 and incorrect for the first four months
> of 1940 when the curved line map was applied.

Westerfield did/used to have decals. Visiting the new site I don't see
them listed.


--

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Re: Seley Hopper ca. 1944

Eric Hansmann
 

The Fairmont Coal Company was one of the heavy hitters at the turn of the 19th to 20th centuries. They made several key purchases in the coal fields around Fairmont, WV, and eventually gained control of the Consolidated Coal Company from the B&O. More detail can be found on this website. My apologies for the political nature of any links or ads on this site but it does have a very nice summary of the Fairmont Coal Company.
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX




Re: MicroScale 87-516 ATSF 40' box, curved line map

 

Just emailed asking about them; will post the reply.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 at 12:21 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] MicroScale 87-516 ATSF 40' box, curved line map









On 7/15/2014 9:58 AM, John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC] wrote:


the more modern style used after 1958 and incorrect for the first four months
of 1940 when the curved line map was applied.
Westerfield did/used to have decals. Visiting the new site I don't see
them listed.


--

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: MN&S box cars before the PS-1s

Ray Breyer
 

The December, 1930 ORER contains the following equipment for the MN&S:
 
50' reefers - 20 cars
36' flats - 41 cars
40' flats - 1 car
40' auto boxs - 2 cars
34' boxcars - 15 cars
36' boxcars - 10 cars
40' boxcars - 10 cars
Work cars - 3
Cabooses - 10
Passenger cars - 5
Gas-Electrics - 4
Steam Engines - 12
 
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

From: "John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: MN&S box cars before the PS-1s



Tom,

Thanks to Ed's ID, I found a similar note in the Oct 45 ORER.  The Loco mix was different though: 2 gasoline electric, 10 coal burning and one diesel for a total of 13.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682



From: "Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: MN&S box cars before the PS-1s




On Jul 15, 2014, at 10:51 AM, Tom Baker bakert@... [STMFC]
wrote:

>  I have never seen a photo of an MN&S box car before the orders of the
>  PS-1s. Did the line not have any SS or DS cars, or for that matter
>  earlier steel cars, before ordering the PS-1 cars?

Tom,

Predating the earliest MNS PS-1s, the April 1951 ORER has a short 1/3
page entry for the Minneapolis, Northfield and Southern Ry. It states
"Freight cars owned are not employed in Commercial Service." At this
time the MNS operated 74 miles of road and had 8 diesel locomotives,
but there is no listing of freight equipment.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins








Westerfield Decals (was Re: MicroScale 87-516 ATSF 40' box, curved line map)

Benjamin Hom
 

Jon Miller wrote:
"Westerfield  did/used to have decals.  Visiting the new site I don't see them listed."
 
https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=133
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: MicroScale 87-516 ATSF 40' box, curved line map

jon miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 7/15/2014 9:58 AM, John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC] wrote:
the more modern style used after 1958 and incorrect for the first four months of 1940 when the curved line map was applied.

Westerfield  did/used to have decals.  Visiting the new site I don't see them listed.

-- 

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


MicroScale 87-516 ATSF 40' box, curved line map

John Barry
 

I discovered an error in printing the 02-09 revision of this sheet Sunday after I brought it home from my LHS.  The 3' herald was the more modern style used after 1958 and incorrect for the first four months of 1940 when the curved line map was applied.  I contacted MicroScale on Monday and Rachel took my input to pass to Scott who was out of the office.  Rachel called me back this morning to state that they indeed did goof and substitute the wrong artwork when they updated the sheet in 2009 and were surprised that the error was missed till now.  They will be running an insert with the correct "skinny font", pointy serif herald, but will take about a month to get into their stock.  

Cudos to MicroScale for their customer service and desire to get things right!
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


Re: MN&S box cars before the PS-1s

John Barry
 

Tom,

Thanks to Ed's ID, I found a similar note in the Oct 45 ORER.  The Loco mix was different though: 2 gasoline electric, 10 coal burning and one diesel for a total of 13.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: MN&S box cars before the PS-1s




On Jul 15, 2014, at 10:51 AM, Tom Baker bakert@... [STMFC]
wrote:

>  I have never seen a photo of an MN&S box car before the orders of the
>  PS-1s. Did the line not have any SS or DS cars, or for that matter
>  earlier steel cars, before ordering the PS-1 cars?

Tom,
Predating the earliest MNS PS-1s, the April 1951 ORER has a short 1/3
page entry for the Minneapolis, Northfield and Southern Ry. It states
"Freight cars owned are not employed in Commercial Service." At this
time the MNS operated 74 miles of road and had 8 diesel locomotives,
but there is no listing of freight equipment.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



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