Date   

Re: Steamtown image

Paul Doggett <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Hi Guys
              Tom is correct over this side of the pond there were literally thousands of them
 There are still a few about but they are disappearing very fast.
Paul Doggett UK




Sent from Samsung mobile

"Thomas Olsen tmolsen@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Guys,

The proper terminology used in the railroad trade for this type of
interlocking is a "mechanical" interlocking plant! The word
"Armstrong" is a term that was used by non-railroaders and some
railroaders to describe to people that it took strong arms to operate
the mechanical levers which move the pipelines that operate the switch
points connected to the machine in the tower.

Tom Olsen

On 8/14/14, destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
> ---In STMFC@..., <jflarkingrc@...> wrote :
> " The question I have on it being a type of locking device is that the
> car weights would vary and there would normally not be a lot of movement up
> and down in a well-ballasted and tamped section of track. There is what
> looks like a pivot in the closer views that would allow the bar to move up -
> they are fairly flat in this view which would indicate that they might be
> able to move up but not much room for downward movement.
> I can see the point of keeping a switch from being thrown under a
> train but I'm still a bit confused as to how that might work from what I can
> see in the pix. Interesting, let's get the photographer to take a sideways
> view of the installation, and maybe a video while he's at it:)"
>
> From this web page on interlockings:Principles of Interlocking
> http://mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/rail/lock.htmTowards the bottom of the page:
>
> "The use of interlockings, where points are operated remotely, required
> additional safeguards, since the points were no longer under the direct
> observation of the signalman. The simple and ingenious solution is shown at
> the right. A bolt fits into apertures in the stretcher bar when the points
> are fully one way or the other, verifying that the points are properly
> closed. A detector bar is linked to the mechanism so that it is moved from
> one extreme position to the other when the bolt is removed or inserted.
> Since it is arranged like a parallel ruler, in doing so it rises to the rail
> head, perhaps to the level of the dotted line in the figure. If wheels are
> passing over the points, it cannot be raised, and the bolt cannot be
> withdrawn, so the points cannot be reversed. This facing point lock, or FPL,
> eliminates the hazards of remote operation. The inside connected FPL was
> always used in Britain, while in the United States the outside connected
> mechanism, with the bolt outside the stock rail, was usual."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Re: More new parts from Yarmouth Model Works

Tim O'Connor
 

Pierre

Thanks for the link! That lead me to watch a video on etched parts,
which led me to this very interesting, easily removable tacky goo --

http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Hobby-M132-Masking-Sol/dp/B000VG6WX2/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/190-8837825-2017015





It is being looked into, stay tuned.

And the Youtube link is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcXsX3o29g8


Pierre Oliver



Those multi-piece General American steps were found on many GATC tank cars and
covered hoppers -- I hope Pierre looks into it!

Jon Cagle (Southern Car & Foundry) did a video once on folding and fabricating
brass wire to model steps -- but I can't find the link to the video!

Here are photos of a model version of those tank car steps --
http://www.protomodeler.com/index.php?/topic/1389-southern-car-foundry-2-dome-tank-car/

Tim O'Connor

>Wonderful stuff as usual, Pierre, and the car sides on the new Wabash boxcar are amazing.
>
>Would stirrups for the new Tangent 6000 gallon three-compartment tank car be economically feasible? I�ve already broken two of them, and though there are plastic replacement parts available, I am afraid I will just mutilate them, as well.
>
>And, more importantly, best of luck tomorrow�to both you and your doctor!
>
>Michael


Re: Tulsa Oil Refiners

FRANK PEACOCK
 

Group, at least those interested in oil refiners in Tulsa, I checked in my library and found the following about the Tulsa/W. Tulsa refineries:
         1940   Mid Continent Pet. Corp.         30,000 BOPD
                     The Texas Co.                          16,000     
                     Sinclair Refining Co.                 6,000           ( Sand Springs)
          1950  Mid Continent Pet. Corp.         44,000
                     The Texas Co.                          30,000
                     (Sand Springs-none listed)
          1960  D-X Sunray Oil Co.                   74,000
                     Texaco, Inc.                                40,000
          Note that in 1940 Mid Continent had 10,000 bopd capacity shut down.  Also, the trend as in most places was to fewer refineries but larger ones.  Economy of scale I think they call this.  Each year that I checked Okla. Refining capacity grew. Sorry for the delay in replying on this topic.  Tank cars would be seen all over the place in Oklahoma in this time period.  A good place to model.  FHP (Frank H. Peacock)  


To: STMFC@...
From: STMFC@...
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2014 23:19:14 -0700
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tulsa Oil Refiners

 

Thank you, Jon.


This gives me a lot more to work with and I appreciate it.


Bob Chaparro



Re: Steamtown image

Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Guys,

The proper terminology used in the railroad trade for this type of
interlocking is a "mechanical" interlocking plant! The word
"Armstrong" is a term that was used by non-railroaders and some
railroaders to describe to people that it took strong arms to operate
the mechanical levers which move the pipelines that operate the switch
points connected to the machine in the tower.

Tom Olsen

On 8/14/14, destorzek@mchsi.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <jflarkingrc@...> wrote :
" The question I have on it being a type of locking device is that the
car weights would vary and there would normally not be a lot of movement up
and down in a well-ballasted and tamped section of track. There is what
looks like a pivot in the closer views that would allow the bar to move up -
they are fairly flat in this view which would indicate that they might be
able to move up but not much room for downward movement.
I can see the point of keeping a switch from being thrown under a
train but I'm still a bit confused as to how that might work from what I can
see in the pix. Interesting, let's get the photographer to take a sideways
view of the installation, and maybe a video while he's at it:)"

From this web page on interlockings:Principles of Interlocking
http://mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/rail/lock.htmTowards the bottom of the page:

"The use of interlockings, where points are operated remotely, required
additional safeguards, since the points were no longer under the direct
observation of the signalman. The simple and ingenious solution is shown at
the right. A bolt fits into apertures in the stretcher bar when the points
are fully one way or the other, verifying that the points are properly
closed. A detector bar is linked to the mechanism so that it is moved from
one extreme position to the other when the bolt is removed or inserted.
Since it is arranged like a parallel ruler, in doing so it rises to the rail
head, perhaps to the level of the dotted line in the figure. If wheels are
passing over the points, it cannot be raised, and the bolt cannot be
withdrawn, so the points cannot be reversed. This facing point lock, or FPL,
eliminates the hazards of remote operation. The inside connected FPL was
always used in Britain, while in the United States the outside connected
mechanism, with the bolt outside the stock rail, was usual."










Re: More new parts from Yarmouth Model Works

Richard Townsend
 

John Cagle was kind enough to sell me some sets of the stirrups separately a couple of years ago
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: More new parts from Yarmouth Model Works

michaelegross <michaelEGross@...>
 

Wonderful stuff as usual, Pierre, and the car sides on the new Wabash boxcar are amazing.

Would stirrups for the new Tangent 6000 gallon three-compartment tank car be economically feasible?  I’ve already broken two of them, and though there are plastic replacement parts available, I am afraid I will just mutilate them, as well.

And, more importantly, best of luck tomorrow—to both you and your doctor!

Michael


Re: More new parts from Yarmouth Model Works

Pierre Oliver
 

It is being looked into, stay tuned.
And the Youtube link is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcXsX3o29g8
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 8/14/2014 2:06 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Michael

Those multi-piece General American steps were found on many GATC tank cars and
covered hoppers -- I hope Pierre looks into it!

Jon Cagle (Southern Car & Foundry) did a video once on folding and fabricating
brass wire to model steps -- but I can't find the link to the video!

Here are photos of a model version of those tank car steps --
http://www.protomodeler.com/index.php?/topic/1389-southern-car-foundry-2-dome-tank-car/

Tim O'Connor

>Wonderful stuff as usual, Pierre, and the car sides on the new Wabash boxcar are amazing.
>
>Would stirrups for the new Tangent 6000 gallon three-compartment tank car be economically feasible? I’ve already broken two of them, and though there are plastic replacement parts available, I am afraid I will just mutilate them, as well.
>
>And, more importantly, best of luck tomorrow—to both you and your doctor!
>
>Michael



Re: More new parts from Yarmouth Model Works

Tim O'Connor
 

Michael

Those multi-piece General American steps were found on many GATC tank cars and
covered hoppers -- I hope Pierre looks into it!

Jon Cagle (Southern Car & Foundry) did a video once on folding and fabricating
brass wire to model steps -- but I can't find the link to the video!

Here are photos of a model version of those tank car steps --
http://www.protomodeler.com/index.php?/topic/1389-southern-car-foundry-2-dome-tank-car/

Tim O'Connor

Wonderful stuff as usual, Pierre, and the car sides on the new Wabash boxcar are amazing.

Would stirrups for the new Tangent 6000 gallon three-compartment tank car be economically feasible? I�ve already broken two of them, and though there are plastic replacement parts available, I am afraid I will just mutilate them, as well.

And, more importantly, best of luck tomorrow�to both you and your doctor!

Michael


Re: Steamtown image

Dennis Storzek
 

---In STMFC@..., <jflarkingrc@...> wrote :
  "   The question I have on it being a type of locking device is that the car weights would vary and there would normally not be a lot of movement up and down in a well-ballasted and tamped section of track.  There is what looks like a pivot in the closer views that would allow the bar to move up - they are fairly flat in this view which would indicate that they might be able to move up but not much room for downward movement.
     I can see the point of keeping a switch from being thrown under a train but I'm still a bit confused as to how that might work from what I can see in the pix.  Interesting, let's get the photographer to take a sideways view of the installation, and maybe a video while he's at it:)"
From this web page on interlockings:Principles of InterlockingTowards the bottom of the page:

 

"The use of interlockings, where points are operated remotely, required additional safeguards, since the points were no longer under the direct observation of the signalman. The simple and ingenious solution is shown at the right. A bolt fits into apertures in the stretcher bar when the points are fully one way or the other, verifying that the points are properly closed. A detector bar is linked to the mechanism so that it is moved from one extreme position to the other when the bolt is removed or inserted. Since it is arranged like a parallel ruler, in doing so it rises to the rail head, perhaps to the level of the dotted line in the figure. If wheels are passing over the points, it cannot be raised, and the bolt cannot be withdrawn, so the points cannot be reversed. This facing point lock, or FPL, eliminates the hazards of remote operation. The inside connected FPL was always used in Britain, while in the United States the outside connected mechanism, with the bolt outside the stock rail, was usual."
     


Re: Information Overload

O Fenton Wells
 

At least for me, listening to the ball game on XM radio is even better than TV.  All MLB games are on XM and the home team radio feed is used for each.  So its like I'm back in New England when the Red Sox are at home, or Atlanta when my Braves are home.  It makes the modeling go better.

--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: Information Overload

Tim O'Connor
 

Some good advice here for modelers -- make a to do list, and then do it!
Build more freight cars, less email. (I also find that listening to the
baseball game on mlb.tv is very relaxing while doing something else -- and
the average game is now up to 4 hours!)

http://www.mercurynews.com/News/ci_26286802/Digitalage-dilemma:-How-to-cope-with-information-overload

Tim O'Connor


Re: Steamtown image

Dennis Storzek
 

Agreed. I believe the proper name for the device is a "detector bar". In order to unlock the switch, the bar needed to be raised... if it wouldn't raise because there were wheels sitting on it, the switch couldn't be unlocked.I actually saw one of these years ago, when I worked for the CTA, on trackage that had been taken out of service around WWII, but still remained in place on the elevated structure. I wish I would have had the presence of mind to suggest the railway museum acquire the hardware, for future use on an interlocking display, but didn't :-(Dennis Storzek


Re: Steamtown image

John Larkin
 

    Thanks, guys, for the info, but I still have a question.  The points are just starting to appear in the bottom of the pix and the linkage for those I would suspect is just at the very bottom of the pix or just out of sight.  After looking at the pix again it dawned on me that what we might be looking at is a wheel guard that would raise when the point is thrown to guide car wheels toward the center of the track, relieving any tendency to pick the points.  It looks like there is a flat plate aligned with the rail and that the mechanism is a series of pivots that raise the plate on the outside of the rail.  I've seen a very few of these installed in fixed installations but never in an interlocking. 
     The question I have on it being a type of locking device is that the car weights would vary and there would normally not be a lot of movement up and down in a well-ballasted and tamped section of track.  There is what looks like a pivot in the closer views that would allow the bar to move up - they are fairly flat in this view which would indicate that they might be able to move up but not much room for downward movement.
     I can see the point of keeping a switch from being thrown under a train but I'm still a bit confused as to how that might work from what I can see in the pix.  Interesting, let's get the photographer to take a sideways view of the installation, and maybe a video while he's at it:)

John 
     


On Thursday, August 14, 2014 10:34 AM, "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
John,
It is the linkage to move the points 

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Aug 14, 2014, at 10:24 AM, John Larkin jflarkingrc@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Maybe I missed it somewhere, but on the outside of the left rail in the track centered in the picture is what looks to be some type of rail brace controlled by an Armstrong lever.  There are a series of what look to be supports with a thin bar between them and the rail.  I've never seen anything like this in years of looking at track and I'm still not sure if I've described it right or can see it clearly enough to describe it.  Any informed thoughts on this detail?

John Larkin






Re: Digest Number 8913

N Fries <nfriespf@...>
 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:


Re: CAD library

twinstarcars
 

Curt,
I have had the best luck with a 3D Systems "Viper" tool. Shapeways is not the only game in town. I have several parts to make and am currently searching for a prototype house with a Viper that has tool time available.
Ross


Re: Steamtown image

MDelvec952
 



The majority of them are 8x10 glass plate negs, more than 20,000 in all. They are not scanned super hi-res, but 300 dpi 8x10s in the effort to get them all scanned.  Higher res. is available on request, and longer term the more important ones will be archived higher res. These are not on the NPS website yet, but little by little they are being added. Right now they are being circulated to the historical community to help with identifications. Usually five per day are posted -- by changing the date in the url previous offerings can be viewed, and many have freight cars.  Less than a third of this collection has been seen this way so far. It was a near miracle that pried this collection out of a University basement, and we're certainly glad it's becoming viewable.

Mike Del Vecchio


-----Original Message-----
From: water.kresse@... [STMFC]
To: Steam Era Frt Car Group <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thu, Aug 14, 2014 11:12 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Steamtown image

 
Are these kept at Steamtown Website in archival resolution of a least 600 dpi x 10" wide? I noticed 24 bit so I assume RGB?  Are they film or glass plate originals?  They are great!
 
Al Kresse


From: "Steam Era Frt Car Group" <STMFC@...>
To: "Steam Era Frt Car Group" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 9:28:42 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Steamtown image

 
Serious Armstrong interlocking plant (as used in the Steam Era)
 
Some cabooses in the far distance, but no freight cars today.
 
Schuyler


Re: CAD library

Curt Fortenberry
 

In my limited use of Shapeways, the issue I find is holding small detail that stands off, like a rib or bracket.  In HO that's about 1" scale part thickness if you use their finest material (which costs extra).  Other materials have larger minimums.  I recently did hopper heap shields which is why this issue came up.  The parts came out but like was noted, the material is a bit frosted so needs a primer almost to look decent.  On a model at a distance it's not an issue.  Printing technology is always changing.  
I've used both Sketchup and Autocad to create 3d models.  
Curt Fortenberry


Re: Steamtown image

John Grube
 

Hi John,I also have never seen anything quite like this. It looks like some type of device to lock the operating lever whenever there is something on the tracks approaching the points. The thin bar you mention appears to be riding on a series of pivot supports. When pushed down by the weight of a train, the bar would pivot laterally, and the rod from that bar is connected to the mechanism leading to the switch.Clear as mud, I know. But that would be a fairly positive method of preventing the switch from being thrown under a train in the "good old days".John Grube


Re: Steamtown image

MDelvec952
 



Those have shown up in some of the Lackawanna pictures of armstrong interlockings ahead of switch points. It was a form of blocking device and prevented the operation of a switch of wheels were sitting just ahead of the points, preventing an operator from throwing a switch under a train.

             ....Mike Del Vecchio




-----Original Message-----
From: John Larkin jflarkingrc@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Aug 14, 2014 11:27 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Steamtown image

 
Maybe I missed it somewhere, but on the outside of the left rail in the track centered in the picture is what looks to be some type of rail brace controlled by an Armstrong lever.  There are a series of what look to be supports with a thin bar between them and the rail.  I've never seen anything like this in years of looking at track and I'm still not sure if I've described it right or can see it clearly enough to describe it.  Any informed thoughts on this detail?

John Larkin


Re: CAD library

 

I was probably the second   MRR manufacturer to use CAD derived parts for my bull’s eye ends for the XL  box.  I’m far from an expert but in my experience if you avoid showing vertical layers lower quality is acceptable.  So what we’re talking about is a return to flat parts  in the short term.  Car bodies require much finer layering.  But because of cost, isn’t this a natural for the large amount of kit bashing we do?
 
BTW Jack, you’re work is awesome.  - Al Westerfield                             
 

Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 9:54 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] CAD library
 
 

I've done about 20 parts using Shapeways and, while they can be seen on the Shapeways site (https://www.shapeways.com/designer/jack1939), they are not for sale since I don't want a buyer to be disappointed by the current quality of parts...resolution still needs to increase before a printed part can be usable in most situations without some sanding and filling. These are all O scale parts and some of my smaller parts can be used as is but those are so small that they can barely be seen on the finished model.

Jack Burgess

  

Has anyone considered setting standards for model railroad rapid prototyping?  Here are some thoughts on the subject.

Select a simple CAD program for use of everyone on the list.

Establish a library of designs that can be plugged into different prototypes – example: reefer door hinges, rivets, scribing.

Set up a system of free and for-profit downloads.

Establish standards for quality and material with perhaps qualified vendors.

Establish standards for thicknesses of major parts so kitbashing is simpler.

Sell downloads for major parts such as roofs and ends.

There are so many opportunities here I‘ve only scratched the surface.  Anyone want to add some ideas? – Al Westerfield

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