AFAIK, canvas
~roofs (i.e., canvas over wood) were not much used on freight cars after
the
~turn of the last century. Unfortunately, I've never seen a builder's
photo
~of the WP cars, though maybe Garth Groff or some other WP maven knows
the
~whereabouts of one. In any event, the time-honored way to model canvas
~roofs in HO scale is to paint the roof with a slow drying paint,
stretch
~strips of Kleenex over the paint with the edges overlapped to represent
~seams, and then apply another coat of paint. On the models I've seen
where
~this technique has been employed, the results looked pretty realistic
to
~me.

For once I'm inclined to disagree with Richard. Canvas reduced to HO has
almost no discernable pattern - nor in HO. This is one of those
revelations that came from modelling real aeroplanes (the sort with two
wings and open cockpits) in quarter inch scale - it's not even
noticeable in O.

The paint and any other waterproofing fills the weave so completely that
the pattern disappears at anything other than extreme close up. However
it may tend to wrinkle and pull a bit at the corners and fixings as the
wooden structure of the car gives and changes shape under varying
temperatures, humidity and loadings.

Aidrian

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~It was a 40 foot box car, one of 1,000 built by General
~American in 1940 to the AAR 10'6" (nominal) design. I have
~a photo of another such IC car in special assigned service.
~An ORER is a good place to look for more information

Tim

ORERs are great, but watch out since this is 1916 and not 1940, and the
IC had a horrible habit of renumbering some of it's equipment from time
to time.

They must have thought that this would keep the workers interested and
provide hours of entertainment for future historians and modellers.
Freightcars are one problem but the dedicated IC steam modeller needs to
be pretty certain about which day of which month he is modelling;
1953-55 just won't cut it.

Aidrian

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At 11:08 PM 11/3/2002, you wrote:

I recently purchased a small group of Chicago Milwaukee & Gary
waybills. Among them was an empty car waybill for IC 28452. I'm

curious

about this car because the waybill says "This car is special IC
equipment. Please do not divert." Can someone please tell me what

was

special about this car? Or at least what kind of car it was?

IC #28452 was part of the #28201-28500 series as per the November 1925
ORER. Its Mechanical Designation was XF and descibed as a Furniture Car;
Inside Length 44' 11 7/8", Inside Height 9', 6' wide Doors, 3,470 cubic
feet capacity riding on 30 ton trucks.

Tim Gilbert

In a message dated 11/4/02 1:09:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ed_mines@... writes:

Did CB&Q have steel reefers in the early '40s?

Hi Ed and others,

CB&Q built its first series of steel reefers in 1937. The series was
74730-74999, 44 ft cars with Murphy panel roofs and unusual forked rib
dreadnaught ends.

An excellent source of info on CB&Q reefers is Burlington Bulletin No. 12,
dated 1984, published by the Burlington Route Historical Society. The
article was written by Rod Masterson and Robert Landregan.

Andy Hart

Has anyone in the group seen the books "New York, Ontario & Western
in Color" and "PRR Color Guide to Freight & Passenger Equipment"?

I'm mostly interested in color photos of rolling stock before 1950
not the railroads named in the titles. A lot of these "in color" books
start in the '50s.

Does the Pennsy book include a few photos of each car including all
the "few of a kind" ones?

Anyone know where I can get books like these at a good discount?

Ed,

There are actually 3 volumes of the PRR book out now (Well, volume 1 is out
of print and a little hard to find). As noted, these are predominantly
photos shot in the 1960's and often into the 70's (of unrepainted
equipment). In addition, the classes represented were the ones surviving
to that date, so they often represent the rebuilt version of so called
"major" classes (which pale in number to many of the "early classes" of
cars). Each of the 3 volumes covers different classes of cars, in general,
with some repeats. each contains a reasonably sized section on MOW and
cabin cars (which may not be of any interest to you since you are not
interested in PRR). In addition, I'll note (and then duck) that color
reproduction is subject to many factors, so the colors depicted in these
books may not resemble the actual colors. That said, although I model
1944, I own all 3 PRR books and consider them to be valuable modeling aids.

As for purchase, I always check Mitchell's Hobby Shop in Wilmington DE
(http://www.mitchells.com). In addition, many of the bigger book sellers
at the Greenbergs, and GATS shows will carry them.

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ \
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

Ah, one of Chuck Donaldson's pics
(www.somewherewest.com ...lots of excellent shots)

Canvas or tar paper was commonly applied to wooden
roofs, and nailed at the edges. An effective modeling
method is to take tissue paper and "paint" it on with
flat black paint (Testor's works well). Gives the look
of tarpaper/canvas without much hassle. Run the paper
over the edge of the roof, trim it and use a pin or
needle dipped in a rust-colored paint to give the
appearance of rusty nails.



=====
Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

Ed,

I have (of course if you knew me!) the NYO&W in Color book. For freight cars its so-so, for camelbacks and FT's its great.

I would suggest you take a look at the "XYZ... Trackside" books by Morning Sun. There are several available, and many of these have great shots of trains and yards from the 1950's. Some are better than others. I do have a complete set and if you tell me what roads/areas you are interested in I will be happy to take a look and see what's available.

Bill Schneider
http://users.ntplx.net/~branch

Tim,

Great idea. Besides the CNW (which had several thousand of these things), ASRX, FCP (Mexico) and the
DSS&A had them. They were discussed at length in RPC #1 by Ed Hawkins.

In addition to the prototypes Ed cited, the IC had both 6' and 8' door riveted PS-1s that were built in
their own shops from Pullman kits. I am currently building both CNW and IC cars.

I've also done the grafting project using Intermountain parts and Front Range welded bodies to get
something close to 50' PS-1s with 8' doors, a combination completely overlooked by all the manufacturers
so far. I did a WP car with sliding doors, and also one with an 8' plug door and an insulated roof.
Sadly, they hardly rated a glance at the recent WPHS convention (Yawn! Just another boxcar."). Someday I
will post photos to Ted's web site. Someday.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Oops, nevermind. I did not notice the 1916 date.

At 11:08 PM 11/3/2002, you wrote:

I recently purchased a small group of Chicago Milwaukee & Gary
waybills. Among them was an empty car waybill for IC 28452. I'm curious
about this car because the waybill says "This car is special IC
equipment. Please do not divert." Can someone please tell me what was
special about this car? Or at least what kind of car it was?

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts

At 11:08 PM 11/3/2002, you wrote:

I recently purchased a small group of Chicago Milwaukee & Gary
waybills. Among them was an empty car waybill for IC 28452. I'm curious
about this car because the waybill says "This car is special IC
equipment. Please do not divert." Can someone please tell me what was
special about this car? Or at least what kind of car it was?

It was a 40 foot box car, one of 1,000 built by General
American in 1940 to the AAR 10'6" (nominal) design. I have
a photo of another such IC car in special assigned service.
An ORER is a good place to look for more information.


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts

What railroads had the PS riveted 50fters?

Off the top of my head, uh, SP, WP, RI, SAL, L&N

You could model one of the IC 40 footers, PS-1 style
riveted series 22000-23534 built 1954-1955.


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts

--- In STMFC@y..., "Chet French" <cfrench@g...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@y..., Clark Propst <cepropst@n...> wrote:

Thanks David,
If Champ still has the VGN hopper set, that's what it will be.
Clark

James D Thompson wrote:

I have an undec Athearn two bay ribbed hopper. I just looked

at

the

RPI site and am somewhat confused, maybe too much info! Is

there

a

prototype for this car and what RR's owned them?

The Athearn ribbed hopper is a different set of sides for

their

AAR

offset-side car, and as such it's basically the ribside design

promoted by

the Unitcast Co. in the 1930s and early 1940s. Prototypes would

be New

Haven 116000-116249 and Virginian 8000-10399 (H-8), 23000-24499

(H-12),

25000-25999, 28000-28499, and 29000-29999 (H-13).

Clark,

Get some panels from Stan Ryarowicz and decals from Mark Vaughn and
create a Wabash 36000 series panel hopper. It would be a natural

to

come off the interchange track at Albia.

Chet French
Dixon, IL

Thats RYDAROWICZ. Took me two years to learn how to pronounce it, I
still working on the spelling.

--- In STMFC@y..., Clark Propst <cepropst@n...> wrote:

Thanks David,
If Champ still has the VGN hopper set, that's what it will be.
Clark

James D Thompson wrote:

I have an undec Athearn two bay ribbed hopper. I just looked at

the

RPI site and am somewhat confused, maybe too much info! Is there

a

prototype for this car and what RR's owned them?

The Athearn ribbed hopper is a different set of sides for their

AAR

offset-side car, and as such it's basically the ribside design

promoted by

the Unitcast Co. in the 1930s and early 1940s. Prototypes would

be New

Haven 116000-116249 and Virginian 8000-10399 (H-8), 23000-24499

(H-12),

25000-25999, 28000-28499, and 29000-29999 (H-13).

Clark,

Get some panels from Stan Ryarowicz and decals from Mark Vaughn and
create a Wabash 36000 series panel hopper. It would be a natural to
come off the interchange track at Albia.

Chet French
Dixon, IL

I recently purchased a small group of Chicago Milwaukee & Gary waybills. Among them was an empty car waybill for IC 28452. I'm curious about this car because the waybill says "This car is special IC equipment. Please do not divert." Can someone please tell me what was special about this car? Or at least what kind of car it was?

Also interesting to me was the note "Return to DeKalb when empty for proper loading." The "to" part of the waybill is blank and the "from" part says the car is coming from DeKalb. Since this car is supposed to return to DeKalb when empty, it seems odd that there would be an empty car waybill for it coming *from* DeKalb. Anyone have an explanation for what might be going on?

The waybill is undated, but was in a bunch of similar waybills all dated from 1916.

Thanks,
Paul

I was looking at some of the reefer photos Bob had for sale at
N'ville. I looked fast I had already spent my alloted photo money! I saw
several wood cars rebuilt with steel ends and roofs (tall doors). Does
anybody know from which series of cars this rebuilds came from and how
many RR's leased them? There are books on PFE and Bill's handout could
be consistered a book for Fruit Growers and associates. Is the any
published info on URTX? I have built a couple of these, but would like
to know more about them.
Thanks,
Clark

Thanks David,
If Champ still has the VGN hopper set, that's what it will be.
Clark

James D Thompson wrote:

--- In STMFC@y..., Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@a...> wrote:

Chris,

Source: Letter to the editor, Mainline Modeler, February 1992.
Rebuilt class M-72, series 474000-474199. (That's only 200 cars
so I don't know about the rest.)

The B&O clearance diagram for the Class M-72 gives the series as
474000-474149, 150 cars rebuilt from M-55c at Du Bois in 1962. The
number series agrees with my January 1964 ORER which lists 149 cars.
The Class M-72a are in series 474500-474599, 100 cars rebuilt from
M-55h at Du Bois in 1962. There are no additions to either series as
late as the July 1969 ORER.

Bob Witt

Has anyone in the group seen the books "New York, Ontario & Western
in Color" and "PRR Color Guide to Freight & Passenger Equipment"?

I'm mostly interested in color photos of rolling stock before 1950
not the railroads named in the titles. A lot of these "in color" books
start in the '50s.

Does the Pennsy book include a few photos of each car including all
the "few of a kind" ones?

Anyone know where I can get books like these at a good discount?

Thanks to all envolved for providing the more comprehensive "Bob's
Photos" list. Thanks too to the people who run this web site, to Ted
Cullotta and to all who have contributed to Ted's web site.

That sounds interesting Tim, but I've already built one. I know, living in
Iowa I need lots. What railroads had the PS riveted 50fters? I don't have
much use for 50' cars, but I was looking at a aerial photo of one of the
local cement plants with 4 PRR cars spotted where most of the cars in the
photos I sent Ted from the 20's were spotted. Of the four, two were 50', one
a DDoor.
Thanks,
Clark

Tim O'Connor wrote: