Andy Hart wrote:

CB&Q built its first series of steel reefers in 1937. The series was
74730-74999, 44 ft cars with Murphy panel roofs and unusual forked rib
dreadnaught ends.

Aren't those just reverse Dreadnaughts?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

I'm building a Branchline PRR shadow keystone boxcar with 8/54 reweigh date.
Should the trucks and underframe be freight car color or black?

--
Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon

Jon Miller wrote:

I used the Smooth Cast 322. I used an old pressure
paint container I had and everything worked fine.

Jon,

please excuse my ignorance, but what is a "pressure paint container"?
And how did you use it during your casting session?

TIA!

Andreas Kuehnpast
(An ignorant manufacturing engineer from Germany)

I am currently researching a vintage well hole flat car operated by the
Barre & Chelsea in the 1940s: B&C # 510. This car had been built in 1898
or 1899 by Laconia for the Hardwick & Woodbury as their # 10.

H&W # 10 was described in an 1899 issue of the RAILROAD GAZETTE. As this
old magazine is unlikely to reside on a bookshelf of an average STMFC
lister: The article obviously was reprinted in the November, 1946 issue
of the R&LHS Bulletin (in the article "The Hardwick & Woodbury Railroad"
by John S. Kendall)... Does someone on this list have a copy of the
Bulletin issue mentioned?

If you can help me, please contact me off-list.

Andreas Kuehnpast

Did CB&Q have steel reefers in the early '40s?

Yes, one series of cars built in 1937 with distinctive reverse-Dreadnaught
ends.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Does anyone have a diagram book from URTX from the late '40s?

I'm interested in the steel reefer pictured in the 1940 (or '41?) CBC
with 2 latches on each side. Were there many of them or is was this a
one of a kind? How about other steel cars before 1948?

Anyone have or ever see a clear photo fo noe of these cars?

Ed, I have several photos of these cars. IIRC, several hundred were built
by GATC before WW II.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Did CB&Q have steel reefers in the early '40s?

Does anyone have a diagram book from URTX from the late '40s?

I'm interested in the steel reefer pictured in the 1940 (or '41?) CBC
with 2 latches on each side. Were there many of them or is was this a
one of a kind? How about other steel cars before 1948?

Anyone have or ever see a clear photo fo noe of these cars?

I see Bob's Photos has a couple of steel reefers which were around in
1947 assuming URTX didn't do renumbering.

Ed Mines asked:

"Has anyone in the group seen the books "New York, Ontario & Western
in Color" and "PRR Color Guide to Freight & Passenger Equipment"?
I'm mostly interested in color photos of rolling stock before 1950
not the railroads named in the titles. A lot of these "in color" books
start in the '50s.
Does the Pennsy book include a few photos of each car including all
the "few of a kind" ones?"

Ed, if you're looking for color photos of rolling stock taken before
1950 in the Morning Sun Color Guide series, you're out of luck for
the most part. The emphasis on color shots means the majority of the
photos are taken post 1950, with the vast majority of the photos
taken in the 1960s and 1970s.

I echo Bruce's comments about the three Pennsy volumes. You do get
decent coverage of the PRR car fleet c. late 1950s-early 1960s
between all three volumes; however, keep in mind that many of the car
classes that were numerous in the late 1940s-early 1950s (X25, GR,
GRA, GS subclasses to name a few) were being rapidly retired by the
time color photography became more common. As a result, coverage of
some classes that were plentiful during the period that you're
interested in is spotty and usually limited to these classes in work
train service. Volumes 2 and 3 are captioned by Ian Fischer - his
info is pretty darn near bulletproof (I haven't found any gross
errors yet, and don't expect to find any).


"Anyone know where I can get books like these at a good discount?"

I checked out both Karen's Books and Ron's Book, and both offer
reasonable discounts:

http://www.karensbooks.com
http://www.ronsbooks.com


Ben Hom

--- In STMFC@y..., tim gilbert <tgilbert@s...> wrote:

At 11:08 PM 11/3/2002, you wrote:

I recently purchased a small group of Chicago Milwaukee & Gary
waybills. Among them was an empty car waybill for IC 28452.

IC #28452 was part of the #28201-28500 series as per the November

1925

ORER. Its Mechanical Designation was XF and descibed as a Furniture

Car;

Inside Length 44' 11 7/8", Inside Height 9', 6' wide Doors, 3,470

cubic

feet capacity riding on 30 ton trucks.

Listed the same way in Oct 1919 register.

Well, if it were me in the WP shops I'd've used roll roofing or roofing felt
coated with tar and then aluminum paint. The roofs shown look to me like
they could well be felt, not canvas, which is much more expensive.

David Soderblom
Baltimore MD

Clark Propst wrote:

I was looking at some of the reefer photos Bob had for sale at
N'ville. I looked fast I had already spent my alloted photo money! I
saw
several wood cars rebuilt with steel ends and roofs (tall doors). Does
anybody know from which series of cars this rebuilds came from and how
many RR's leased them? There are books on PFE and Bill's handout could
be consistered a book for Fruit Growers and associates. Is the any
published info on URTX? I have built a couple of these, but would like
to know more about them.

While Epstein's A HISTORY OF GATX 1898-1948 may not be much of a help
for modeling purposes, there is a one paragraph summary of URTX's
history.

"In the refrigerator field, the (GATX's) important acquisition was the
Union Refrigerator Transit Company of Milwaukee. The company had begun
business in 1903 with a fleet of 1,726 cars; it was a successor to a
Kentucky company of the same name. (URTX of Kentucky began operations as
a small car line in 1890.) By 1929, it owned 4,912 cars...."

On page 152 of the same book, there is a photo of URTX #89008, a reefer
with riveted construction.

Tim Gilbert

AFAIK, canvas
~roofs (i.e., canvas over wood) were not much used on freight cars after
the
~turn of the last century. Unfortunately, I've never seen a builder's
photo
~of the WP cars, though maybe Garth Groff or some other WP maven knows
the
~whereabouts of one. In any event, the time-honored way to model canvas
~roofs in HO scale is to paint the roof with a slow drying paint,
stretch
~strips of Kleenex over the paint with the edges overlapped to represent
~seams, and then apply another coat of paint. On the models I've seen
where
~this technique has been employed, the results looked pretty realistic
to
~me.

For once I'm inclined to disagree with Richard. Canvas reduced to HO has
almost no discernable pattern - nor in HO. This is one of those
revelations that came from modelling real aeroplanes (the sort with two
wings and open cockpits) in quarter inch scale - it's not even
noticeable in O.

The paint and any other waterproofing fills the weave so completely that
the pattern disappears at anything other than extreme close up. However
it may tend to wrinkle and pull a bit at the corners and fixings as the
wooden structure of the car gives and changes shape under varying
temperatures, humidity and loadings.

Aidrian

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~It was a 40 foot box car, one of 1,000 built by General
~American in 1940 to the AAR 10'6" (nominal) design. I have
~a photo of another such IC car in special assigned service.
~An ORER is a good place to look for more information

Tim

ORERs are great, but watch out since this is 1916 and not 1940, and the
IC had a horrible habit of renumbering some of it's equipment from time
to time.

They must have thought that this would keep the workers interested and
provide hours of entertainment for future historians and modellers.
Freightcars are one problem but the dedicated IC steam modeller needs to
be pretty certain about which day of which month he is modelling;
1953-55 just won't cut it.

Aidrian

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At 11:08 PM 11/3/2002, you wrote:

I recently purchased a small group of Chicago Milwaukee & Gary
waybills. Among them was an empty car waybill for IC 28452. I'm

curious

about this car because the waybill says "This car is special IC
equipment. Please do not divert." Can someone please tell me what

was

special about this car? Or at least what kind of car it was?

IC #28452 was part of the #28201-28500 series as per the November 1925
ORER. Its Mechanical Designation was XF and descibed as a Furniture Car;
Inside Length 44' 11 7/8", Inside Height 9', 6' wide Doors, 3,470 cubic
feet capacity riding on 30 ton trucks.

Tim Gilbert

In a message dated 11/4/02 1:09:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ed_mines@... writes:

Did CB&Q have steel reefers in the early '40s?

Hi Ed and others,

CB&Q built its first series of steel reefers in 1937. The series was
74730-74999, 44 ft cars with Murphy panel roofs and unusual forked rib
dreadnaught ends.

An excellent source of info on CB&Q reefers is Burlington Bulletin No. 12,
dated 1984, published by the Burlington Route Historical Society. The
article was written by Rod Masterson and Robert Landregan.

Andy Hart

Has anyone in the group seen the books "New York, Ontario & Western
in Color" and "PRR Color Guide to Freight & Passenger Equipment"?

I'm mostly interested in color photos of rolling stock before 1950
not the railroads named in the titles. A lot of these "in color" books
start in the '50s.

Does the Pennsy book include a few photos of each car including all
the "few of a kind" ones?

Anyone know where I can get books like these at a good discount?

Ed,

There are actually 3 volumes of the PRR book out now (Well, volume 1 is out
of print and a little hard to find). As noted, these are predominantly
photos shot in the 1960's and often into the 70's (of unrepainted
equipment). In addition, the classes represented were the ones surviving
to that date, so they often represent the rebuilt version of so called
"major" classes (which pale in number to many of the "early classes" of
cars). Each of the 3 volumes covers different classes of cars, in general,
with some repeats. each contains a reasonably sized section on MOW and
cabin cars (which may not be of any interest to you since you are not
interested in PRR). In addition, I'll note (and then duck) that color
reproduction is subject to many factors, so the colors depicted in these
books may not resemble the actual colors. That said, although I model
1944, I own all 3 PRR books and consider them to be valuable modeling aids.

As for purchase, I always check Mitchell's Hobby Shop in Wilmington DE
(http://www.mitchells.com). In addition, many of the bigger book sellers
at the Greenbergs, and GATS shows will carry them.

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

Ah, one of Chuck Donaldson's pics
(www.somewherewest.com ...lots of excellent shots)

Canvas or tar paper was commonly applied to wooden
roofs, and nailed at the edges. An effective modeling
method is to take tissue paper and "paint" it on with
flat black paint (Testor's works well). Gives the look
of tarpaper/canvas without much hassle. Run the paper
over the edge of the roof, trim it and use a pin or
needle dipped in a rust-colored paint to give the
appearance of rusty nails.



=====
Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

Ed,

I have (of course if you knew me!) the NYO&W in Color book. For freight cars its so-so, for camelbacks and FT's its great.

I would suggest you take a look at the "XYZ... Trackside" books by Morning Sun. There are several available, and many of these have great shots of trains and yards from the 1950's. Some are better than others. I do have a complete set and if you tell me what roads/areas you are interested in I will be happy to take a look and see what's available.

Bill Schneider
http://users.ntplx.net/~branch

Tim,

Great idea. Besides the CNW (which had several thousand of these things), ASRX, FCP (Mexico) and the
DSS&A had them. They were discussed at length in RPC #1 by Ed Hawkins.

In addition to the prototypes Ed cited, the IC had both 6' and 8' door riveted PS-1s that were built in
their own shops from Pullman kits. I am currently building both CNW and IC cars.

I've also done the grafting project using Intermountain parts and Front Range welded bodies to get
something close to 50' PS-1s with 8' doors, a combination completely overlooked by all the manufacturers
so far. I did a WP car with sliding doors, and also one with an 8' plug door and an insulated roof.
Sadly, they hardly rated a glance at the recent WPHS convention (Yawn! Just another boxcar."). Someday I
will post photos to Ted's web site. Someday.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Tim O'Connor wrote: