Date   

Wabash 84661

Richard Townsend
 

I was watching a Greg Scholl video on the C&S and Wabash 84661 was prominently featured in Fort Collins, CO.  Is there a kit that will accurately model this car?  From the blurry video it looks like a steel-sided rebuild of some type.  Only the right half of the side is visible in the video.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: Well you know it's time to stop modeling for the night when...

CJ Riley
 

there is an oft published photo of a WM gon lettered "Western Maryndla". Wanted to do one but wrong era for me.

CJ Riley
Port Ludlow WA


St. Louis RPM Meet Report

golden1014
 

The 2013 St. Louis Railroad Prototype Modeler's (RPM) Meet was held on Friday, August 8th and Saturday, August 9th at the Gateway Convention Center in Collinsville, Illinois. The two-day event was co-sponsored by the Gateway Division, National Model Railroad Association, and featured clinics, modular layouts, vendors, historical societies, attendee model displays, hands-on weathering seminars, and home layout tours.  



295 modelers attended and brough over 1,300 models of all scales and gauges for display.  Prototype and modeling clinics were provided by Barry Karlberg, Pierre Oliver, Rob Adams, Dave Schroedle, Dave Roeder, Nelson Moyer, Bruce Smith, Mike Cougill, David Lehlbach, Ed Hawkins, Tim VanMersbergen and Brian Banna.  All day hands-on weathering clinics were provided by Dave Schroedle of Protoweathering.com (check out Dave's website at http://www.protomodeler.com/index.php?/page/index.html) and The Weathering Shop.   The Weathering Shop crew uses St. Louis RPM as their annual gathering, and a dozen Weathering Shop guys from around the country attended the event to demonstrate and teach weathering, and also to display and sell their artwork.  The Weathering Shop’s online resource is available at http://theweatheringshop.com/.

Steve Cerka brought a 20-foot portable layout for operations, and Clark Propst brought an eight-foot table-top layout specifically designed to be displayed and operated at RPM meets.  Clark's lightweight layout depicts the actual Allied Mills/Wayne’s Feed mill on the Milwaukee Road in Mason City, circa 1958.  Clark designed short, 30-minute operating sessions and about a dozen attendees took the challenge on Friday and Saturday.  

85 tables of hand-picked vendors also attended the meet, including  Tangent Scale Models, Cannon, Moloco, Plano, Yarmouth Model Works, Rails Unlimited, Funaro & Camerlengo, Railshop Ltd., ICG Custom Decals, Badger Airbrush,  Protocraft, Stan Rydarowicz Models, Moon Dog Railcars, Fox Valley Models, Lake Junction Models, Norris Hobbies, Q Connection, Spring Creek Model Trains, ProtoLoads, Mask Island Decals, OST Publications, Weathering Solutions, Motrak Models, Iowa Scaled Engineering, and others.  Photo dealers—a specialty at RPM meets providing views of specific engines, rolling stock and scenes—included Big Four Graphics, Bob’s Photos, Mike Gruber Photos, Joe Collias Photos and Ed Stoll Photographs.  Thanks to all our vendors for helping us ensure a successful event!

In addition to the vendors, St. Louis RPM this year's event year’s meet included historical societies representing the New York Central, Wabash, Milwaukee Road, Missouri Pacific, Chicago & Eastern Illinois, Gulf, Mobile & Ohio, Nickel Plate, Pennsylvania, Chicago & Northwestern, Illinois Terminal, and Terminal RR Association railroads. The Barriger National Railroad Library was also on hand this year, advertising the Barriger Library’s famous photo and artifact collection available to the public at the University of Missouri, St. Louis (UMSL) downtown. The Barriger Library website is http://www.umsl.edu/mercantile/barriger/index.html, and photos from John Barriger’s personal collection are now online at https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/sets/.

Numerous club and home layouts were on display as well, including the Litchfield Train Group’s 44 x 55-foot HO scale layout in Litchfield, Ill. which was open on Thursday afternoon.  Three additional layouts in St. Louis’s western suburbs were open for viewing on Friday evening, including Don Morice’s beautiful Illinois Central transition-era HO scale layout, Herb Koenig’s HO-HOn3 Colorado Rocky Mountain Railroad, and Eric Brooman’s famous Utah Belt RR.  The layouts hosted over 160 RPM guests.  Other home layouts were open for private tours and ops sessions as well, including MMR Dave Roeder’s Webster Groves & Fenton layout.  A virtual tour of Dave’s layout and other St. Louis are layouts can be found online at http://www.gatewaynmra.org/model-railroad-layout-tours/.

You can find more information on the 2014 St. Louis RPM Meet at http://home.mindspring.com/~icg/rpm/stlrpm.htm.  The official St. Louis RPM photo site can be found at http://www.pbase.com/golden1014.  We are working hard to upload photos as soon as possible.  The NMRA’s Gateway Division website can be found at http://www.gatewaynmra.org/default.htm.

Thanks to everyone for making this a great annual gathering!  Planning for the 2015 St. Louis RPM Meet-—the ninth annual gathering-—is already underway.  Exact dates that best fit the modeling community and the Gateway Division are still to be determined but we expect to host the meet again in late July or early August, 2015. If you'd like to be a vendor or bring your historical society or modular layout, or if you want more information, please don't hesitate to contact us, John Golden at Golden1014@... or Lonnie Bathurst at bathurst@.... 

Thank you!

Signed,
Lonnie Bathurst
Dan Kohlberg
Dave Roeder
Clark Propst
John Golden







Re: PRR box car assignments in dedicated service (UNCLASSIFIED)

O Fenton Wells
 

Most of that information for the Southern was in the archives in the correspondence from the executives or shop foreman and managers.  So you may want to try the Historical Assoc to see if they have that type of info or that you can visit and look through.

--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: PRR box car assignments in dedicated service (UNCLASSIFIED)

water.kresse@...
 

Auto and truck frame flat and gondola cars would also be pooled from late-50s on.  There was a frame factory in Reading, PA.  Auto parts box cars going into the Ford Rouge plant via Pennsy (north side of plant complex and PM Rougemere Yard on the east side) would also be pooled.
Al Kresse
 


Re: PRR box car assignments in dedicated service (UNCLASSIFIED)

John Barry
 

Eldon,

I can't answer your question about PRR, but can tell you how I found several assignments for the ATSF.  The auto parts cars were generally in assigned service as the racks had to be modified for each new model year.  Some cars carried engines, others axles, still others bodies or body panels.  CSRM library has a series of Santa Fe Builder's photos of the modified cars as they fitted out in the Topeka (or other) shops.  Many of the photos show the return instructions stenciled on the car and many (if not most) of those are to return to a foreign road when empty.  I expect the PRR also documented its car conversions but have no idea where the Pennsy material is archived.  Where ever that is is where I would start searching.  

Please forward my response to the PRR group as you have piqued my curiosity and I would like to know if such an archive exists.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "'Gatwood, Elden SAW' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..." ; "PRR-Modeling@..." ; "PRR@..." <PRR@...>
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 6:32 AM
Subject: [STMFC] PRR box car assignments in dedicated service (UNCLASSIFIED)

 
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Folks;

I am hoping some of you may know some details on what PRR box cars were in what assigned service, beyond what is noted in the ORERs. I am especially interested in the dedicated service box cars, in assigned service to things like auto parts, appliances, canned goods, specialty steel, etc.

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE




PRR box car assignments in dedicated service (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Folks;

I am hoping some of you may know some details on what PRR box cars were in what assigned service, beyond what is noted in the ORERs. I am especially interested in the dedicated service box cars, in assigned service to things like auto parts, appliances, canned goods, specialty steel, etc.

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Well you know it's time to stop modeling for the night when...

Charles Peck
 

It happened on an L&N autorack car.  A side panel with the logo was removed and 
was reinstalled upside down.  Photos exist.
Chuck Peck


On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:36 AM, caboose9792@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

It would be even funnier if someone has a prototype photo showing that did happen and down right hysterical if you were modeling from a said photo and didn't notice you just made the car look like the photo without questioning the photo.

Mark Rickert
 
In a message dated 8/16/2014 10:37:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:

You  take a moment to look your NH GA-2 gondola over before weathering and just then realize, after multiple applications of decal setting solution over the course of a few day, that you managed to put the block NH herald upside done on one side. Of course I never noticed this OBVIOUS error when putting the decal in place originally nor during the repeated applications of setting solutions. Offending decal was removed with a light application of Scalecoat paint remover, which despite being light and quick removed most of the paint on the two panels. Car has also been washed and the two panels repainted black. Decaling will commence tomorrow with the N firmly above the H. You all may laugh now. I am going to bed.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



Re: Well you know it's time to stop modeling for the night when...

Brian Carlson
 

Honestly with F&C I'm to the point where I usually skip the words and look at the pics. I'd be happy with more and better reproduced  photos and fewer words. How helpful is "Assemble the carbody" anyway. Don't get me wrong. I have dozens of his kits, to build and have more to bu, so they fill a need. sometimes it's a need I didn't know I had, LOL.

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:49 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Well you know it's time to stop modeling for the night when...

 

 

Cheer up Brian,

 

     I had a similar error that was not noticed until one side of the car was decaled. Owing to the rudimentary instructions Steve Funaro provides for an otherwise nice kit I ended up with a number for a GA-3 that is also included in the decal set but is a dimensionally different series of gon. In looking through a New Haven book to check some other item on the car the mistake was noted and a similar process to yours begun but in a grit blast booth followed by repainting. The car has been complete for some months now and I do think it is a

very owrthwhile kit, Just wish Steve would put a little more work into his instructions so we all wouldn't have to conduct our own research on every F&C kit.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Well you know it's time to stop modeling for the night when...

Brian Carlson
 

I meant to add, this kit came with 4 NH blocks. The first went on fine. The second (first attempt on other side) disintegrated, in the water. I didn't have enough liquid decal film on the F&C decal. (Does everyone have to overcoat F&C decals with liquid deal film?) The third was the upside down oops, 4th one went on Sunday after lunch and it's doing fine.

 

There's a EL gon photo out there with Lackawannna.

Brian Carlson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 9:39 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Well you know it's time to stop modeling for the night when...

 

 

I’d might have left it that way. Painting mistakes happened on the real railroads too.

 

I might do as you did if I had another decal. But, how many sets come with extra emblems?

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Weathered wood

Brad Andonian
 

I use this method: spray wood walk with either thinned roof brown from floquil or star brand painted weathered brown wood. After drying I brush on various dyes from hunterline until I see the appearance I desire.

Brad Andonian

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad


From: ron.merrick@... [STMFC] ;
To: ;
Subject: [STMFC] Weathered wood
Sent: Sun, Aug 17, 2014 1:33:17 PM

 

Anyone have suggestions for a gray-ish weathered wood color using Tru-color paints?  Maybe a couple of colors for variety and irregular weathering?Ron Merrick


Anyone interested in 'O' decals for PFE R-50-1 from Westerfield?

wahsatch
 

Just ordered a copy of the 1935 ORER cd from Westerfield.

Their website mentioned decals could possibly be made for other scales.

I've included the Westerfield email address so if you'd like to build your own R-50-1 in 'O' with T section Bett trucks - San Juan offers both in both 'O' & P48.

IIRC, the R-50 is both in Tony Thompson's fine PFE book & in an article in RMC.

Please send a copy JUST to ** westerfieldmodels@gmail.com ** with the number of decals with a max price.

I'm asking for 2 sets with a max price of $10 each. Large quantity 'O' decals are in the $7 to $8 range. Don't know what the minimum number needed will be.

More than likely a one time deal.

Thanks for your time!

-=- Bob Colquitt


when not build models

ed_mines
 

 After a night of drinking I installed the side of a N&W Q'craft caboose with one of the support blocks behind the small window.

 

Ed Mines


Re: CAD library

Dennis Storzek
 

---In STMFC@..., <kaecoble@...> wrote :

 " I have printed four HO scale cars using Sketchup and Shapeway.  You can read about my experience with two 3D print models here http://nycshs.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/finalnycentralmodel4th13.pdf ..."

Kyle,

Thanks for a very even handed and informative description of the state of the art as it stands today. Too much has been written where the author just make the blanket statement, "I think it looks great", without providing either data or photos to allow the rest of us to make or own judgement.

Dennis Storzek


Re: CAD library

Dennis Storzek
 

Thanks Tom,
---In STMFC@..., <pullmanboss@...> wrote :

 

"A good designer has to be familiar with the capabilities of the manufacturing process he’s designing for. By their nature, stereolithography underbuilds features slightly, and MJM machines overbuild by a similar amount. Not a factor unless you’re designing things like ¾” dia rivet heads in HO. For SLA designs I increase the head diameter by 1/8”; for MJM designs I decrease it by the same amount. It may seem like no big deal, 1/8” in HO is just under 0.0015”. But if I use the same design file to print an uncompensated ¾” rivet head in each process,  the difference in the printed rivets (5/8” SLA vs. 7/8” MJM) is 40% and is very noticeable."

 

Of course, the solution to this, like so many other things, is better resolution. With the 600 dpi common today, each pixel is .0017" across, somewhat larger than an HO scale 1/8 inch, which is .0014". It sounds like of the two machines mentioned above, one has software that ignores any pixel that isn't fully contained within the solid model being printed, while the other prints any pixel that is even partially contained within the model. If the printing resolution was four times greater, 2400 dpi (which, incidentally, is about the same as the 2540 dpi the commercial image setters that do out lettering art run) the problem would still exist, but the total difference between the example rivets would be less than 10%, and be hardly noticeable.

Only problem is increasing the resolution 4X will make the project take sixty four times longer to print, which will probably have some effect on price.

Dennis Storzek


RPM Meet coming in Kennesaw GA in September 2014

O Fenton Wells
 

Please pardon my shameless promotion of what should be a really fun event. 

Mark your calendars for September 19 – 20, 2014, get your models ready to

display and plan to bring a friend. SRHA Archives work session will begin on

Tuesday, open house at the Canton, St. Paul & Pacific live steam layout will be

Thursday afternoon.

The Southern Railway Historical Association is pleased to announce the first

Atlanta Railroad Prototype Modelers (RPM) Meet. A joint effort of SRHA, Atlantic

Coast Line & Seaboard Air Line Railroads Historical Society, Central of Georgia

Railway Historical Society, Nashville Chattanooga & St. Louis Preservation

Society, Tennessee, Alabama & Georgia Historical Society, The National Model

Railroad Association and the Railway & Locomotive Historical Society.

Focus is on sharing and learning what modelers are doing and how they're doing

it. The meet welcomes models in any scale, finished or under-construction,

based on prototype locomotives, rolling stock, structures, and scenes, regardless

of the modeler's skill level. Nearly forty clinics, model, and dealer areas will be

open to attendees. Modular model railroad layouts will be up and running during

the meet.

The Southern Museum is the home of the Western & Atlantic No. 3, The Civil War

“General”; The SRHA, The David Salter, Glover Machine Works, Col. Jim Bogle

and Marvin Black drawing, photo, and document collections along with other Civil

War and railroad collections. Admission to the museum, adjacent to the CSX

Chattanooga Subdivision mainline, is included in the RPM registration.

Advance registration is $45, on site $50. C,StP&P open house: (only with RPM

registration) $10.00. Information, On-line Registration and Clinic Schedule on the

SRHA web site at: www.srha.net/RPM.

Canton, St. Paul & Pacific www.csppry.org

Southern Museum www.southernmuseum.org

Sponsoring organizations’ dealer tables ($0), commercial dealers ($25), contact

Paul Faulk @ aclsalhshelp1@...

Thanks,

Fenton Wells


Re: Well you know it's time to stop modeling for the night when...

caboose9792@...
 

It would be even funnier if someone has a prototype photo showing that did happen and down right hysterical if you were modeling from a said photo and didn't notice you just made the car look like the photo without questioning the photo.

Mark Rickert
 

In a message dated 8/16/2014 10:37:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:

You  take a moment to look your NH GA-2 gondola over before weathering and just then realize, after multiple applications of decal setting solution over the course of a few day, that you managed to put the block NH herald upside done on one side. Of course I never noticed this OBVIOUS error when putting the decal in place originally nor during the repeated applications of setting solutions. Offending decal was removed with a light application of Scalecoat paint remover, which despite being light and quick removed most of the paint on the two panels. Car has also been washed and the two panels repainted black. Decaling will commence tomorrow with the N firmly above the H. You all may laugh now. I am going to bed.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY


Re: CAD library

devansprr
 

Paul, Tom,With all of the discussion about presentations at Prototype Rails being videotaped and such, I will provide a testimonial that Tom's very illuminating presentation on this topic at this year's Prototype Rails was worth the cost of the trip (especially if it saved you from buying a 3D printer that will fail to deliver what you require).And being just short of 60 and fighting through the development and deployment of an unrelated disruptive technology (not useful to this community but useful to the 1:1 railroads and many others,) I think the odds of my seeing a 3D printed Pacemaker boxcar, at prices competitive to current products, as being very unlikely in my lifetime, even with the Actuarial's predicting another 25+ years to go. (Personally I am hoping for a fleet of PRR X23s instead of the Pacemaker box car, but Tom's analogy is illuminating from the standpoint of priorities. A few resin X23s is not enough for a WWII PRR modeler.)Refer to the famous "Hype cycle":http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle

 

Mandatory STMFC content - from the time Timken invested a significant sum of money building 200 roller bearing equipped freight car trucks for testing on 100 PRR hoppers in the late 1920's, it was almost 40 years until roller bearing equipped trucks became mandatory on new freight cars. (The PRR hopper trucks were new because Timken placed the bearings in-board - like many transit cars today - the thought being that without the heavy truck sideframes, the much lighter trucks would provide significant economic benefit to the railroads in higher capacity cars. That concept failed....for freight cars)Fortunately Timken had a long-term perspective, and other markets - which they penetrated much more quickly (when fielding a disruptive technology, these markets are considered "lower hanging fruit"). It took Timken over 20 years from the time of the PRR tests to the point where they would dedicate a facility to make roller bearings for freight cars.The duration of the trough in the hype cycle can vary greatly depending on the nature of the technology, and the magnitude of the market. I think everyone on this list recognizes that the market for highly accurate models of freight cars that can not justify conventional, multi-part injection mold tooling is a pretty small market - a boutique market.While pure software technologies can cross the hype cycle trough pretty quickly, not so for technologies that require significant advances in mechanical and electro-mechanical equipment. We have had dot matrix printer technologies for over 30 years - and the primary market does not appear to have much interest in further increases in dpi. It is a guess, but I bet 99% of 3D printer users will find 600 dpi to be adequate, and will be satisfied with designs without significant overhangs (think for a minute - how many people will want to sell a 3D printed object with little tiny projections sticking out of it that are more likely to be viewed as a source of pricks and paper cuts, or of a flawed surface? Oh, and they are easily broken off too...)  I would be surprised if the 3D printer market expends significant capital to invest in new technologies that will satisfy our higher resolution and overhang requirements - they will chase markets that the technology can readily support - that is the only way to recover substantial investments on the time frame investors require. Timken wisely invested in other roller bearing markets while they patiently waited for the technology to improve to a point where roller bearings were widely viewed within the freight railroad industry as worthy of the additional cost. Tom is intimately familiar with this market - and if he considers the requirements of freight car models to be the very highest fruit in the 3D printer tree, then one needs to be very concerned about falling victim to the "hype" in the hype cycle.I know I sound overly negative, but Tom's message is absolutely correct - limited hobby hours remain for all of us. While some on this group have made some impressive models using this technology, and kudo's to them, I have no expectations that mass-produced 3D printed freight cars will appear within the next 25 years to help me generate a representative WWII freight car fleet. I'll take what I can get with the current manufacturing technologies and focus my limited time on other aspects of the hobby (or on generating income to support other aspects of the hobby, perhaps for some injection molds for X23's... ;-)My 0.5 cents. Enough ramble - I need to head back to the office on a Sunday in an attempt to field a different disruptive technology - 9 years in and another 5-8 years to get across that hype cycle trough of disillusionment...And note that the bottom of the trough can be bottomless for some markets - hopefully not for the technology I am involved in - not sure if that will be the case for mass-produced 3D printed freight cars. For 1:1 freight car trucks without sideframes - the chasm was never crossed (although it might be cool to model that string of PRR H21 hoppers... hmmm...wonder if I could 3D print THOSE trucks...) But Timken prospered by pursuing other markets that crossed the trough... Chose your battles wisely, or you may come to realize you have been acting like Don Quixote, as a few of my professional peers have started to intimate to me....Dave Evans
---In STMFC@..., <koehlers@...> wrote :

Tom:

 

Makes perfect sense to me.  Huh?  vbg

 

Paul C. Koehler

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:12 PMTo: STMFC@...Subject: [STMFC] Re: CAD library

  

Some notes from the real world…

 

When you get to your late 70s your list of “not in my lifetime” possibilities is considerably longer than it is for you youngsters in your 60s. That certainly colors my view of 3D printing and libraries of CAD files. So what follows is the view of someone more likely to receive a pacemaker than a 3D printed Pacemaker boxcar in the foreseeable future.

 

SNIP>

Nothing is as simple or as straightforward as it seems.

 

Tom Madden

 


Re: Well you know it's time to stop modeling for the night when...

Bob Chapman
 

Brian Carlson writes:

"...after multiple applications of decal setting solution over the course of
a few day, that you managed to put the block NH herald upside done on one
side."
 
Brian:
 
Reminds me of the time Ted Luce, an excellent C&O modeler who wrote many articles for the C&OHS magazine several years ago, did an article on a C&O hopper model with "Oiho" decaled upside down. He didn't realize the car had the problem until one of us pointed it out after the article appeared. I have had to double-check my decaling of C&O models ever since.
 
Of course, over the years there have been photos of some notorious misspellings on various prototype cars well. A wood-sided PFE reefer lettered Pacific Fauit Express due to a siding board replacement, a ribbed Pennsy car with two three-letter sets transposed due to out-of-order stencils, etc. There weren't many of them, but they were out there. One more excuse for some freight car freaks on our layouts.    :)  
 
Regards,
Bob Chapman  


Re: Well you know it's time to stop modeling for the night when...

riverman_vt@...
 

Cheer up Brian,

 

     I had a similar error that was not noticed until one side of the car was decaled. Owing to the rudimentary instructions Steve Funaro provides for an otherwise nice kit I ended up with a number for a GA-3 that is also included in the decal set but is a dimensionally different series of gon. In looking through a New Haven book to check some other item on the car the mistake was noted and a similar process to yours begun but in a grit blast booth followed by repainting. The car has been complete for some months now and I do think it is a

very owrthwhile kit, Just wish Steve would put a little more work into his instructions so we all wouldn't have to conduct our own research on every F&C kit.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

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