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Re: paint lid gaskets

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Just found a new material to use for your used Floquil and Scalecoat
paint lids. Seems the plastic material used in SoBe drink lids is very
solvent resistant. It can be pried out of the lid and used as is for
Scalecoat. It can be cut down for Floquil bottles. I have had one in a old
Floquil bottle which contains MEK. The material has swollen (in about 3
days) but still seals fine and does not appear to be dissolving. The test
piece in the Scalecoat lid has been there 5 days with no apparent change.
These seals really great as they are a soft plastic (or something).

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: scale draft gear

byronrose@...
 

The bottom line to this discussion will be written on modelers layouts.
Since I have not yet had one of the new Kadees (or Accumates) to play
with, I can only make an educated guess as to how they'll work based on
my familiarity with Kadees "old" #5s and how prototype draft gear works.
But I wouldn't bet the farm on modelers using the new couplers on much
more than display models.

I feel that Seargant did their couplers a disservice by incorporating a
Kadee #5 type shank which requires a wider housing just to get it on a
car. But what else could they do with modelers using the #5s on at least
98% of their models? Somebody needs to develop plug in draft gear
housings for the two types, scale and Kadee, which will allow interchange
on a car by car basis. But unfortunately, those cars built with the
coupler housing as an integral part of the end/end sill will be very,
very difficult to convert, unless the manufacturers take pity on us and
cut two different ends for their kits.

I shudder to think of the work ahead of us to correct those thousands of
unbuilt Westerfield and Sunshine kits, not to mention the hundreds of
thousands of unbuilt plastic kits. And how about throwing in all the
built-up cars we have rolling on test tracks and display cases. Or
layouts??

There is some true scale coupler testing being done by some adventuresome
types, like Randy Anderson, but I'm kinda betting that this is one area
where the more things change, the more they will stay the same. Whatever
that means.

I hope that this development doesn't splinter us into non compatible
groups like 1/4" vs 17/64" vs Proto 48 did in O scale. How ironic it
will be when our steam engines will be able to operate on smaller radius
curves than our freight cars.

BSR


On Sun, 24 Dec 2000 15:41:37 -0500 "Tim O'Connor"
<timoconnor@mediaone.net> writes:

I think Byron exagerates the difficulty of using a closer
to scale draft gear. For one thing, on a model coupler the
amount of swing as measured by the deflection at the coupler
face depends on the distance from the pivot to the face of
the pocket opening, as well as the length of the shank, as
well as the size of the opening. Kadee PS-1 cars come with
a closer to scale draft gear that does NOT use #5 size shank
couplers and they seem to work perfectly well. True, you may
have trouble coupling over #4 turnouts, but why would you
couple or uncouple there anyway? (It sounds like something
the prototype would not do.) So while Byron is correct that
there are physical limits to how close to "true scale" you
can go, the fact is that the "next generation" #58 (i.e. the
one with a redesigned shank to fit a narrower draft gear)
should work quite well on model railroads with reasonable
minimum curvature and turnout sizes. They probably won't
work very well on 18" radii with #4 switches, but those are
not the customers for the #58 anyway.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


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Re: P2K Tank Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Jon Miller wrote:

Richard,
One more question on the COSX D-X billboard cars. In my time frame with
the KC brakes would they still have archbar trucks?
No, as the (twice delayed) deadline prohibiting arch bars in interchange
took effect in mid-1941. Anyway, the prototype cars were delivered with
ARA cast steel trucks with spring planks and would certainly have retained
those trucks through 1941 (in fact, probably until the cars wre retired).
The closest HO scale truck is the Accurail "Bettendorf" truck.

Also are those LOC photos accessible by internet?
Yes, but I'm not sure how to go about it. Perhaps someone else on the list
can tell you.


Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: P2K Tank Cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Richard,
One more question on the COSX D-X billboard cars. In my time frame with
the KC brakes would they still have archbar trucks?
Also are those LOC photos accessible by internet?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Intermountain kits

Richard Hendrickson
 

Intermountain does really well with sticking with the right paint schemes
on the right cars. But does anyone know of any ART cars leased to Royal
(with the big placard on the side) that were NOT belt-rail cars?
I've seen only two photos of ART crs in this scheme, and both were
belt-rail cars (i.e.,postwar cars with improved Dreadnauight ends and
horizontal rivet seams in the middle of the side sheathing).

Also, I have in my notes that all the Central's USRA composite gons
had been rebuilt to steel by '37. But supposedly they switched from black
to box car red for their open top cars in '41, so I'm thinking the
Intermountain NYC gon in box car red is wrong (?) - John
Correct on all counts, John. To the best of my knowledge, the Central's
USRA gons were never painted mineral red.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Intermountain kits

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Tim - I've been working on our Red Caboose and MDC
sections, so BY COMPARISON Intermountain is a breath of fresh air. But I am
entirely in the dark on the 60 foot flats (Richard's answer to the Overnight
scheme), so any help you could give would be welcome. - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
To: <STMFC@egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Intermountain kits


John Nehrich wrote

Intermountain does really well with sticking with the right paint
schemes on
the right cars.
[ *begin sarcasm* ]

Come again? Has Intermountain discontinued its entire product line
and introduced another??

[ *end sarcasm* ]

None of the steel reefers are truly accurate other than the PFE and
NP cars. Only one of the 60 foot flat cars is accurate. Many of the
tank cars are bogus. Many of the PS-1 paint schemes are applied to
the wrong car, although the paint schemes do correspond to Pullman
Standard cars. The majority of the "Canadian cylindrical" covered
hoppers are wrong, and some are simply a crock. I think the only
car style they've done 100% accurately is the 1940 AAR 10'6" box.
(And maybe the USRA gondola? It's too early for me.)



Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts



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Re: Intermountain kits

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

John Nehrich wrote

Intermountain does really well with sticking with the right paint schemes on
the right cars.
[ *begin sarcasm* ]

Come again? Has Intermountain discontinued its entire product line
and introduced another??

[ *end sarcasm* ]

None of the steel reefers are truly accurate other than the PFE and
NP cars. Only one of the 60 foot flat cars is accurate. Many of the
tank cars are bogus. Many of the PS-1 paint schemes are applied to
the wrong car, although the paint schemes do correspond to Pullman
Standard cars. The majority of the "Canadian cylindrical" covered
hoppers are wrong, and some are simply a crock. I think the only
car style they've done 100% accurately is the 1940 AAR 10'6" box.
(And maybe the USRA gondola? It's too early for me.)



Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Intermountain kits

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Intermountain does really well with sticking with the right paint schemes on the right cars. But does anyone know of any ART cars leased to Royal (with the big placard on the side) that were NOT belt-rail cars?
Also, I have in my notes that all the Central's USRA composite gons had been rebuilt to steel by '37. But supposedly they switched from black to box car red for their open top cars in '41, so I'm thinking the Intermountain NYC gon in box car red is wrong (?) - John


Re: SP Overnight scheme

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Richard - I thought so. But with traditional Athearn, Tyco, etc., the sound
I would like to hear with all the lights out is them hitting the concrete
floor - the most
desperate form of kitbashing. - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: <STMFC@egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] SP Overnight scheme


Both Intermountain and Red Caboose offer their 1937 AAR box car in the
SP's Overnight scheme. As I understand it, this scheme was ONLY applied
to cars built with Improved Dreadnaught Ends (but were 10 ft high
inside),
but I want to make sure before I criticize this version. (If I remember
Tony's article in RMC, these were the SP's first box cars with this end.)

- John Nehrich
That's correct, John. The original black overnight paint scheme was
applied to B-50-24 class cars in the 97620-98069 series, built in
mid-1946,
which were 10'0"IH AAR-design cars with improved Dreadnaught ends,
alternate-center rivet courses on the side sheathing, early postwar
Youngstown corrugated doors with wide seam panels, and steel grid running
boards. So not only the ends but the sides, doors, and running boards of
the IM and RC models are wrong. It's highly unlikely that an accurate
model of these cars will ever be offered in styrene (though resin is
certainly a possibility) which is, of course, bad news for the SP guys who
would like to model a whole string of them. Since the overnight freight
service trains ran at night, however, I suppose you could made up a train
of IM or RC cars and turn out all the lights in the layout room so the
inaccuracies would be invisible. For that matter, with the lights out you
could run any old train made up of antique Athearn/Tyco/MDC junk that
would
make appropriate noises and just tell visitors that what they were hearing
was the LA-SF Overnight. I understand that's what T. Thomspon intends to
do if he ever gets what's left of his Coast Line layout reincarnated in
his
attic in Berkeley. FWIW, the overnight cars weren't supposed to go
off-line, so they'd be out of place on any layout that didn't model the SP
Coast Line (though there is a well known M. D. McCarter photo of a nearly
new one at Peru, IN, so obviously there were occasional exceptions).

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520




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Re: SP Overnight scheme

Richard Hendrickson
 

Both Intermountain and Red Caboose offer their 1937 AAR box car in the
SP's Overnight scheme. As I understand it, this scheme was ONLY applied
to cars built with Improved Dreadnaught Ends (but were 10 ft high inside),
but I want to make sure before I criticize this version. (If I remember
Tony's article in RMC, these were the SP's first box cars with this end.)

- John Nehrich
That's correct, John. The original black overnight paint scheme was
applied to B-50-24 class cars in the 97620-98069 series, built in mid-1946,
which were 10'0"IH AAR-design cars with improved Dreadnaught ends,
alternate-center rivet courses on the side sheathing, early postwar
Youngstown corrugated doors with wide seam panels, and steel grid running
boards. So not only the ends but the sides, doors, and running boards of
the IM and RC models are wrong. It's highly unlikely that an accurate
model of these cars will ever be offered in styrene (though resin is
certainly a possibility) which is, of course, bad news for the SP guys who
would like to model a whole string of them. Since the overnight freight
service trains ran at night, however, I suppose you could made up a train
of IM or RC cars and turn out all the lights in the layout room so the
inaccuracies would be invisible. For that matter, with the lights out you
could run any old train made up of antique Athearn/Tyco/MDC junk that would
make appropriate noises and just tell visitors that what they were hearing
was the LA-SF Overnight. I understand that's what T. Thomspon intends to
do if he ever gets what's left of his Coast Line layout reincarnated in his
attic in Berkeley. FWIW, the overnight cars weren't supposed to go
off-line, so they'd be out of place on any layout that didn't model the SP
Coast Line (though there is a well known M. D. McCarter photo of a nearly
new one at Peru, IN, so obviously there were occasional exceptions).

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: scale draft gear

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

I think Byron exagerates the difficulty of using a closer
to scale draft gear. For one thing, on a model coupler the
amount of swing as measured by the deflection at the coupler
face depends on the distance from the pivot to the face of
the pocket opening, as well as the length of the shank, as
well as the size of the opening. Kadee PS-1 cars come with
a closer to scale draft gear that does NOT use #5 size shank
couplers and they seem to work perfectly well. True, you may
have trouble coupling over #4 turnouts, but why would you
couple or uncouple there anyway? (It sounds like something
the prototype would not do.) So while Byron is correct that
there are physical limits to how close to "true scale" you
can go, the fact is that the "next generation" #58 (i.e. the
one with a redesigned shank to fit a narrower draft gear)
should work quite well on model railroads with reasonable
minimum curvature and turnout sizes. They probably won't
work very well on 18" radii with #4 switches, but those are
not the customers for the #58 anyway.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: Kadee #58s: You asked for it

byronrose@...
 

On Sun, 24 Dec 2000 01:47:04 EST MDelvec952@aol.com writes:

Picked up a couple of sets of the new scale Kadees, No.58s,
yesterday.
<snip>

The chief beef, though, is that the already oversize coupler pocket
is now
even bigger in relation. Byron mentioned this over the phone, but I
didn't
realize how bad the pocket looks. It literally dwarfs the coupler
and seems
to allow a greater travel. Wonder why a new coupler pocket wasn't
designed.
These are, after all, scale couplers for the scale modeler.
Mike, the answer is that they can't because they have to sell to modelers
who would never build layouts with scale curves. What does a real world
curve scale out to, 72+" radius? A scale coupler in a scale pocket could
not take even a 30" radius without kicking cars onto the floor.


I noticed on my little
shelf-top yard that the swing is so great that when shoving on a
curve the
couplers kick out dangerously far. I'm sure the pockets and couplers
will
hold up, but I was curious if it effects the tracking
There, you said so yourself. Real world, meet real scale model world.
Try the solution that street railroads used, an auxiliary double ended
coupler to extend the cars from each other and allow more bending.
Imagine 60' boxcars with scale draft gear housings on 24" curves.
Splinter city.

BSR
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SP Overnight scheme

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Both Intermountain and Red Caboose offer their 1937 AAR box car in the SP's Overnight scheme. As I understand it, this scheme was ONLY applied to cars built with Improved Dreadnaught Ends (but were 10 ft high inside), but I want to make sure before I criticize this version. (If I remember Tony's article in RMC, these were the SP's first box cars with this end.)

- John Nehrich


Cal Scale AB brakes

Gail & Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

I have nine sets of Cal Scale #AB-284 brass AB brake sets. One pack was
originally priced $1.50, seven were $2 and the other was $3.75. I don't know
where they all fall on the degradation curve, but if anyone needs them, get
in touch with me off-list. I won't be able to do anything until we return
from New Zealand on January 24, but I'll check my e-mail a couple of times
before we leave on Monday.

Best wishes to all for a happy holiday season!

Tom Madden


Re: P2K Tank Cars & K brakes

Kathe Robin <kathe@...>
 

Byron:

Unfortunately I am aware of this degradation of quality problem, since I
still have some Cal-Scale K brake sets purchased directly from John
Anderson in the early '60s (mostly on cars I must admit).

I've been using those sparingly and some of the Grandt ones also. How
do I order yours? (Part # & $ to send?)

Max
-------------------------------------------------------
email: m_robin@cheatriver.com

smail: Max S. Robin, P.E.
Cheat River Engineering Inc.
23 Richwood Place / P. O. Box 289
Denville, NJ 07834 - 0289

voice: 973 - 627 - 5895 fax: 973 - 627 - 5460
------------------------------------------------------


Kadee #58s: You asked for it

MDelvec952
 

Picked up a couple of sets of the new scale Kadees, No.58s, yesterday.
Overall, not bad looking, and more realistic than the old reliable
predecessor.

I put them on a couple of cars and a caboose, and I have a few observations.

First, the size looks pretty good, and I don't mind the look of the knuckle
from the side, as others have complained about. They're steel and will be
reliable. And the 58s couple well with the No.5s.

I once warned that with scale couplers (primarily the Seargants) the good
life in modeling would be over for making a hitch almost every time. In real
life every hitch must be watched as couplers cross or knuckles butt all the
time, and some cars won't couple to other cars on the slightest of curves or
on the curve of a switch, and so on. Even though the 58s center in the No.5
pocket, I found that as often as not, the hitches didn't make -- either the
couplers weren't exactly lined up or they crossed, and they wouldn't make
without adjustment on a No.4 switch, whereas the No.5 couples almost always
would. But this will all add to the realism of the operation and I'll
happily live with it for the better looking coupler. I'm one of those who
cuts off the actuating pins; prefer to make cuts by hand.

The chief beef, though, is that the already oversize coupler pocket is now
even bigger in relation. Byron mentioned this over the phone, but I didn't
realize how bad the pocket looks. It literally dwarfs the coupler and seems
to allow a greater travel. Wonder why a new coupler pocket wasn't designed.
These are, after all, scale couplers for the scale modeler. I would consider
building proper pocket faces on future kits, but who knows how reliable
they'll be after a couple of jacknifes and derailments.

Anyway, was wondering if anyone with a large railroad tried these yet, and
have they shoved a long train around a curve? I noticed on my little
shelf-top yard that the swing is so great that when shoving on a curve the
couplers kick out dangerously far. I'm sure the pockets and couplers will
hold up, but I was curious if it effects the tracking

....Mike


Re: P2K Tank Cars & K brakes

byronrose@...
 

On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 10:59:52 -0500 Kathe Robin <kathe@cheatriver.com>
writes:
Be aware that Cal-Scale (Bowser) has PERMANENTLY discontinued their
part
#199-290 and #190-291, which were KC brake sets in plastic and brass
respectively!! The mold is worn out/damaged, and since they were
doing
the brass sets via "lost plastic" casting, those got canceled also.

Lee English tells me it will cost ~$28, to make a new mold and the
order
rate just doesn't justify it. In fact he specifically said that
while
they redid the AB brake mold, the order rate is such that he figures
it
could be 35 - 50 years just 'till he recovers the money spent, to
say
nothing of lost interest and available capital for other product.

Sorry to be the messenger of bad/disappointing news.

Max
Max,

What Lee neglected to tell you was that they did such a poor job of
tooling it that anyone who's knowledgeable will shun them. Besides,
while they were off the market several others became available which have
permanently replaced the mess that the CalScale set had turned into. Try
comparing the castings as they were originally made 40+ years ago (or
Grandt Lines current set) to the current CalScale. The original patterns
had been distorted by their "repair" over the years to the point that the
AB valve was about half the height it should have been (you couldn't
attach more than 3 pipes where 6 need to be placed) and one side of the
reservoir was larger than the other half. The cylinder and retainer
valve were also shortened but nobody would know because nobody knows what
the correct sizes should be. Unfortunately, that is what Lee English
copied to make the new tooling. They got what they
bargained for.

The irony is that some of the new sets are no more than copies (rip-offs
is the technical term) of the inferior CalScale sets.

The best set on the market, IMHO, is from Grandt Line. The components in
it are closest to scale size. Try mounting a reservoir ATSF style with
the Tichy set. In my humbler opinion, my sets ain't too bad either!!

BSR (doing what he does best!)
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Re: Red Caboose "TW" reefer designation

thompson@...
 

John Nehrich asked:
I've just been studying the Red Caboose's web site for their PFE reefers.
Maybe I've missed something, but I don't see any explanation of the "TW"
designation. Is this something they made up for non-PFE cars?
John, you can look up the AAR type designations in the back of any ORER.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: K brakes

Kathe Robin <kathe@...>
 

Tim:

Do you have any Cal Scale K brake sets , plastic or brass, which you
would be interested in selling? I'll pay more than fair value!

Thanks,

Max
-------------------------------------------------------
email: m_robin@cheatriver.com

smail: Max S. Robin, P.E.
Cheat River Engineering Inc.
23 Richwood Place / P. O. Box 289
Denville, NJ 07834 - 0289

voice: 973 - 627 - 5895 fax: 973 - 627 - 5460
------------------------------------------------------


Re: K brakes

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

At 10:59 AM 12/23/00 -0500, you wrote:

Be aware that Cal-Scale (Bowser) has PERMANENTLY discontinued their part
#199-290 and #190-291, which were KC brake sets in plastic and brass
respectively!!

Lee English tells me it will cost ~$28, to make a new mold and the order
rate just doesn't justify it. In fact he specifically said that while
they redid the AB brake mold, the order rate is such that he figures it
could be 35 - 50 years just 'till he recovers the money spent, to say
nothing of lost interest and available capital for other product.

Sorry to be the messenger of bad/disappointing news.
Tichy makes excellent KC and KD brake sets, and I have tons of leftover
KC gear from kits. (99% of my stuff uses AB or later brakes.) I suspect
one reason the CalScale AB set is selling slowly is that he took too
long (several years!) in redoing the tooling and gave competitors (Tichy,
Details West, Detail Associates, Grandt Line, and even Pittsburgh Scale
Models) a chance to jump in with replacement products. I will never buy
another CalScale AB set because the competitive products are better --
The old CalScale Ajax brake wheel can't hold a candle to Kadee's.


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

188561 - 188580 of 188688