Date   

Intermountain wheels and alt std AAR hopper kits

Andy Carlson
 

Hello STMFC-ers-

I have a few 12 packs of Intermountain semi-scale 33" code 88 wheel sets left. Offered at $39 for 4 12-packs (enough for 12 freight cars).

I have 2 Intermountain alternate standard AAR 2-bay coal hopper kits. $24/each.

All of the above prices include 1st class USPS shipping. I accept checks and money orders. for a small fee I accept PayPal, as well.

Please contact me OFF-LIST at
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



Re: Need some help on an 'O' Santa Fe reefer

John Barry
 

Santa Fe had 150 cars in series 1570-1719 built in 1902 initially owned by the Santa Fe Refrigerator Line.  These cars were gone by 1928, with only 19 remaining in 1925.  This series was assigned to class Rr-K in the 1902 renumbering and classification.


In July 1902, the refrigerator operations were consolidated into a new subsidiary, Santa Fe Refrigerator Despatch, reporting mark SFRD.  Existing refers in AT&SF and SFRL marks were relettered SFRD after this date.  That would not have been instantaneous, but barring photographic evidence, unusual after a couple of years to see a SFRL mark.  


 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "Bob Colquitt wahsatch@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Cc: wahsatch@...
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 8:14 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Need some help on an 'O' Santa Fe reefer

 
Got this reefer off eBay - looks good but needs some help.

Think it's a Westbrook wood kit assembled; here goes:

Santa Fe Refrigerator Line SFRL # 1597, 40T, 40 ft, "2 over 7 then O2 -
class?", truss rods

1] Real deal or make believe? photo for adding decals appropriate for 1935?

2] What type of trucks?

3] Anyone make 'O' door hinges & latch? - just printed on - need to buy
PSC catalog

4] Tack board - proto size/thickness?

5] Underside detail - brake rigging, etc?

6] Hand brake &/or platform?

Thanks for any help!

-=- Bob Colquitt



Re: SP lumber trains in the Fraley frt conductor book

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Jim and List Members,

Jim, your post is indeed a very interesting read!

Thanks

Claus Schlund



-------- Original message --------
From: "jcdworkingonthenp@... [STMFC]"
Date:08/22/2014 12:33 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: SP lumber trains in the Fraley frt conductor book

Mike after researching for the Northern Pacific’s lumber train, the J Manifest, my research closely matches both your post and Tony’s post 127431 also.  Per Tony, I also found that the shipper’s preference was as Tony relates, 50-ft DD XM cars. However in any case, boxcars, any ones boxcars seemed to take preference over flats for the reasons that follow.

    The NP always preferred that lumber be loaded into boxcars whenever possible as this prevented the possibility of the lumber shifting in a dangerous manner. NP records reference ICC records of wrecks being attributed to shifting lumber loads and the NP had several “load shifters”  to deal with these shifted loads between the west coast lumber areas and St. Paul where it handed off this traffic. Some loads were dealt with (resorted) up to nine times between the two prior mentioned areas.

      The NP’s J Manifest started after an investigation of a semaphore being knocked down and other subsequent notable events even after this manifest started include a shifted load shattering the windows of a car on a local and breaking the arm of a passenger aboard the same. Also a shifted timber on a flat nicking a switch at Coon Creek Junction, MN, which then threw the switch under the train and piling up the 40 or so following cars.

    The lumber shifting was thought to be caused by the dynamic augment of the piston thrusts of steam locomotives being transmitted through the drawbars. (If someone with a better grasp of physics can explain this better, go for it).

      I think many of the sheets regarding shifted loads I have, list car numbers and so I will search for these and scan some pages so we can see the variety of cars used. I may have a Conductors report of a J Manifest itself, and will try to get a scan to the files. XM’s predominate on that train report as you list on your finding Mike on the train report you found.

     One thing notable in these shifted loads on flats seems to be various sizes of lumber loaded on a car and even more so; larger timbers loaded on top of smaller sizes of lumber and this did not have to be great differences. One example had 4x10 inch under 6 x 12 inch, with 4x10s causing trouble.

   That would be my only (very minor) concern with the Owl Mountain kit. Different sizes of lumber.

    This kit alone or with various other sizes set on top does much to as Tony relates in his blog; saves time and saves strip wood for other projects.

    I do welcome the Owl Mountain kit and want to thank Tony for bringing this to the group’s attention.  

Jim Dick - St. Paul


Re: Need some help on an 'O' Santa Fe reefer

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Colquitt asked:
"Got this reefer off eBay - looks good but needs some help."
 
Item number?  It'll help us to help you if we see the model.
 
 
Ben Hom


Need some help on an 'O' Santa Fe reefer

wahsatch
 

Got this reefer off eBay - looks good but needs some help.

Think it's a Westbrook wood kit assembled; here goes:


Santa Fe Refrigerator Line SFRL # 1597, 40T, 40 ft, "2 over 7 then O2 - class?", truss rods


1] Real deal or make believe? photo for adding decals appropriate for 1935?

2] What type of trucks?

3] Anyone make 'O' door hinges & latch? - just printed on - need to buy PSC catalog

4] Tack board - proto size/thickness?

5] Underside detail - brake rigging, etc?

6] Hand brake &/or platform?

Thanks for any help!

-=- Bob Colquitt


second sale of Hendrickson kits

Tony Thompson
 

I am announcing today a sale of another part of Richard Hendrickson's reserve of HO scale kits, mostly Sunshine in this batch. Few if any of these are still available, so this is an opportunity for many of you. The list is attached below, for the second group of kits.
I will conduct the sale in the following way. Anyone wishing to buy kits should submit a bid directly to me, one and only one bid per kit, though of course you might wish to bid on more than one kit. [PLEASE remember to submit bids OFF the list, directly to me.] The highest bid for each kit will win.
The deadline for bids will be noon, Pacific time, on Wednesday, August 27. I will notify winning bidders promptly with payment instructions. If you do not hear from me by 3 PM Pacific time on August 27, 2014, you were not the successful bidder. I greatly prefer PayPal and will notify winners how to proceed on that; if PayPal is impossible for you, a check or money order is possible (include that information in your bid), and again, I will notify you how to submit it.
Minimum bid on each kit is $25, plus a nominal $5 for shipping for the first kit, $1.75 for each additional kit. All net revenue goes to Richard's widow Sandra. Kits remaining unsold on August 27 will go on eBay later. I will then take a break for a few weeks, but expect to have additional batches of kits thereafter.

Tony Thompson
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
(510) 540-6538; e-mail: tony@...


List of kits, in order by kit number

Kit no. Description (per kit box)
_____________________________________________________
SUNSHINE
2.1 CNW 65000 series box car, USRA steel rebuild
2.5 Rock Island 134000 series rebuilt box car, panel roof
3.1 ACL USRA steel side rebuilt box car
5.9 ATSF Ga-49 48’ 6” gondola, side doors, 1940-1960s
5.10 ATSF Ga-53 48’ 6” gondola without side doors, 1941-1960s
9.2 Wabash rebuilt box car, 3/7/8 ends, prewar door
10.8 PRR X31F turtleback jeep/auto car
12.6 PRR G29 46’ gondola, wood floor
17.14 Pacific Electric B-50-14 SS box car, Murphy radial roof, composite ends
28.4 Santa Fe SFRD Rr-29 1940 steel reefer, Duryea u’frame, curved map
35.1 ACL ventilated box car, O-17, center groove siding, 1919-1950s serif logo
40.5 IC 36000 series 40’ double-door auto car, original lettering
45.1 ATSF Ft-G flat car, revenue service decals
49.1 CNW 1923-25 Pratt truss box car, Hutchins roof
49.4 CMO 1927 Pratt truss box car, Viking roof
62.1 UTLX X-3 10,000 gallon tank car
66.4 ATSF Ft-O, Ft-P 50’ flat car
66.5 ATSF Ft-O 50’ flat car, auto loader
67.17 T&P 40’ gondola, fixed dreadnaught ends
68.2 ATSF dry ice reefer, three hinged doors
74.1 SFRD Rr-35, 36, 39, 40 steel reefer, Super Chief
74.8 SFRD Rr-43 steel reefer, Super Chief
85.7 D&RGW 62000 series 36’ box car, Murphy roof and ends
89.4 SFRD Rr-18 rebuilt USRA reefer, Map/Chief
94.1 SFRD Rr-44 rebuilt 1946-47 reefer, Map/Chief
95.1 Linde 1939-44 Duryea (box) tank car, original serif lettering
99.6 UTLX GATC radial rivet tank car

WESTERFIELD
3858 Northwestern Pacific USRA DS box car, modernized
4801 Santa Fe Bx-13 box car
4751 Santa Fe Bx-11/12 raised roof box car
8102 USRA Mill gondola NYC Lot 377-G, PMcK&Y 385-G


Re: SP lumber trains in the Fraley frt conductor book

np328
 

Mike after researching for the Northern Pacific’s lumber train, the J Manifest, my research closely matches both your post and Tony’s post 127431 also.  Per Tony, I also found that the shipper’s preference was as Tony relates, 50-ft DD XM cars. However in any case, boxcars, any ones boxcars seemed to take preference over flats for the reasons that follow.

    The NP always preferred that lumber be loaded into boxcars whenever possible as this prevented the possibility of the lumber shifting in a dangerous manner. NP records reference ICC records of wrecks being attributed to shifting lumber loads and the NP had several “load shifters”  to deal with these shifted loads between the west coast lumber areas and St. Paul where it handed off this traffic. Some loads were dealt with (resorted) up to nine times between the two prior mentioned areas.

      The NP’s J Manifest started after an investigation of a semaphore being knocked down and other subsequent notable events even after this manifest started include a shifted load shattering the windows of a car on a local and breaking the arm of a passenger aboard the same. Also a shifted timber on a flat nicking a switch at Coon Creek Junction, MN, which then threw the switch under the train and piling up the 40 or so following cars.

    The lumber shifting was thought to be caused by the dynamic augment of the piston thrusts of steam locomotives being transmitted through the drawbars. (If someone with a better grasp of physics can explain this better, go for it).

      I think many of the sheets regarding shifted loads I have, list car numbers and so I will search for these and scan some pages so we can see the variety of cars used. I may have a Conductors report of a J Manifest itself, and will try to get a scan to the files. XM’s predominate on that train report as you list on your finding Mike on the train report you found.

     One thing notable in these shifted loads on flats seems to be various sizes of lumber loaded on a car and even more so; larger timbers loaded on top of smaller sizes of lumber and this did not have to be great differences. One example had 4x10 inch under 6 x 12 inch, with 4x10s causing trouble.

   That would be my only (very minor) concern with the Owl Mountain kit. Different sizes of lumber.

    This kit alone or with various other sizes set on top does much to as Tony relates in his blog; saves time and saves strip wood for other projects.

    I do welcome the Owl Mountain kit and want to thank Tony for bringing this to the group’s attention.  

Jim Dick - St. Paul


Re: new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain

Tim O'Connor
 

In the late 60's I watched a crew of young men (including a kid
from my high school) unloading a 40 foot NP box car that was loaded
with stick lumber that was amazingly tangled up inside the car --
Each stick had to be removed manually and stacked up on their flatbed
truck. The car was spotted at a team track.

Labor cost? Probably about $1.50 an hour back then... :-)

Tim O'

Doug,

Thanks for bringing out the intense labor aspect, which required larger crews on both ends of a shipment by box where a flat could be loaded/unloaded faster with fewer folks. Labor costs began to escalate and machinery came down in real terms, especially after the period of this list.

John Barry


Re: new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain

John Barry
 

Jack,

Thanks for the clarification.

Doug, 

Thanks for bringing out the intense labor aspect, which required larger crews on both ends of a shipment by box where a flat could be loaded/unloaded faster with fewer folks.  Labor costs began to escalate and machinery came down in real terms, especially after the period of this list.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 7:17 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain

 
Jack you are correct, I had forgotten that is how the “lumber doors” were used. I have several videos of logging operations and sawmills that included scenes of loading lumber into boxcars. Very labor intensive, yet a fluid motion that is a joy to observe.
 



Re: new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain

Douglas Harding
 

Jack you are correct, I had forgotten that is how the “lumber doors” were used. I have several videos of logging operations and sawmills that included scenes of loading lumber into boxcars. Very labor intensive, yet a fluid motion that is a joy to observe.

 


Re: SP lumber trains in the Fraley frt conductor book

Tim O'Connor
 


And rough lumber may have travelled shorter distances, like Oregon to California,
which may explain why so many photos of open lumber loads on the SP show the cars
in those two states. I've always thought it might be a weather or duration thing --
a car load travelling across the country could take two or three weeks and might
encounter more than one rain storm... While travel to CA or AZ from OR has less
chance of getting rained on, and dries out faster in the desert sunshine. Or,
maybe not. I'm not in the lumber biz -- maybe Greg Martin knows?

Data point: I have a 1963 image of flat cars in Tacoma WA loaded with finely milled,
uncovered, tongue-in-grove lumber. Unusual, to be sure.

Tim O'



Mike Brock wrote:

"While beginning a look through my Fraley for autos & auto parts, I notice three "lumber trains" heading east. The consists of these three trains are interesting primarily because of the presence and lack thereof of SP cars . . . as far as lumber and SP box cars is concerned. I am surprised at the small number of flat cars carrying lumber."

The rule of thumb told me by people in the forest products business is that flat cars carried rough lumber (often finished to size at a local yard), while box cars carried milled or finished lumber. SP really liked double-door box cars, esp. 50-ft. cars, for this and there exist copies of SP directives to send ANY empty cars of that kind, whatever the railroad ownership, to Eugene, Oregon for lumber loading.

Tony Thompson


Re: new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

A clarification...even long pieces were loaded through the side door but if the piece is too long, it is still loaded through the side door but maneuvered through the lumber door from the inside to get it all in the car.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:40 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain

 




John most lumber was not loaded through the end door (ie lumber door) on boxcars. It was loaded through the doors on the side of the car. The lumber door was only used for extremely long pieces, which could not be loaded in the normal fashion, through the side door via a roller stand and one guy handing up the sticks from the ground and a second guy inside stacking. Find some old logging videos to see how it was done.

 

As fork lifts came into use, lumber began to be bundled and handled by the forklift, double doors became more important.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:45 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain

 

 

Interesting point.  And one that makes eminent sense.  The advantage of MHE (material handling equipment) is one of the reasons lumber switched to flats from box cars.  When you are loading through a 2ft door on the end, you are hand stacking your load.  If the stack exceeds your forklift capacity, you are almost back to that same situation.  Stack size on a flat car not a rail car limit but that of the MHE on either end. 

 

John Barry

 

ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights

 

 

707-490-9696

 

3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682

 


From: "William Keene wakeene@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain

 

 

Hello Group,

 

This has been an interesting thread. Especially since I am right now developing what the flat car fleet should be for my layout. Thanks to all for the education.

 

I believe Doug might have hit on the reason that in the late 1950s lumber loads began to be split into two banded bundles athwart the deck of a flat car. My thought is that this was most likely done to ease loading and unloading with fork lift trucks. 

 

Cheers & Happy Modeling,

Bill Keene

Irvine, CA

 

 

On Aug 21, 2014, at 12:38 PM, 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 

Would another factor regarding lumber loads be the species? Different species have different weights per board ft. And this will vary greatly depending if we are talking green (ie wet) lumber or dry lumber. Kiln dry being perhaps the lightest. Treated or creosoted lumber could be the heaviest. Different weight may impact the size of the load, not so much determined by the flat car but rather by the equipment used to load or unload. I can recall helping a lumberyard, unload the trucks. They had a small forklift and for some of the larger dimensional lumber bundles we had to have a guy or two stand on the back bumper of the fork lift truck to help balance the load. If the supplier shipped too large of a bundle it could not be unloaded at the local yard.

 

Here is a chart showing the different weights by species: http://www.osbornelumber.net/weights--measures.html from a west coast lumber provider.

And here is a calculator for figuring the weight of different species. http://www.csgnetwork.com/lumberweight.html grant this calculator has mostly hardwoods listed, but you can quickly get an idea of how the weight varies between species.

 

Doug Harding

 

 

 

 

 





Re: HOPPER CAR BRAKE RIGGING

destorzek@...
 

---In STMFC@..., <eaneubauer@...> wrote :


 
"An 8x12" cylinder was standard in 1900, even for 50-ton cars. Shortly after, the more familiar 10x12" cylinder became standard for heavier cars including many 50-ton cars. Cars rebuilt in the 'teens often retained the older brake equipment. However, cars built before the 1911 act often had the older brake layout revised into compliance."
.
Grandt Line makes a KC set with the 8x12 cylinder for narrow gauge cars. This is a very nice set, that I used to pack with my Soo Line caboose kits, as the cabooses retained their 8x12 brake cylinders through the AB conversion and went to scrap with them in the sixties.
.
Dennis Storzek
 
 


Re: SP lumber trains in the Fraley frt conductor book

Tony Thompson
 

Mike Brock wrote:

 

"While beginning a look through my Fraley for autos & auto parts, I notice three "lumber trains" heading east. The consists of these three trains are interesting primarily because of the presence and lack thereof of SP cars . . . as far as lumber and SP box cars is concerned. I am surprised at the small number of flat cars carrying lumber."


     The rule of thumb told me by people in the forest products business is that flat cars carried rough lumber (often finished to size at a local yard), while box cars carried milled or finished lumber. SP really liked double-door box cars, esp. 50-ft. cars, for this and there exist copies of SP directives to send ANY empty cars of that kind, whatever the railroad ownership, to Eugene, Oregon for lumber loading.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain

Tony Thompson
 

Bill Keene wrote:

I believe Doug might have hit on the reason that in the late 1950s lumber loads began to be split into two banded bundles athwart the deck of a flat car. My thought is that this was most likely done to ease loading and unloading with fork lift trucks. 


       If by "athwart" you mean two piles in the width of the deck, this is not shown in most diagrams in the ARA or AAR loading rules, but quite old photos show some lumber stacked that way. Certainly by 1940 this was common, so it had nothing to do directly with banding.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





SP lumber trains in the Fraley frt conductor book

Mikebrock
 

With the interest in lumber loads on flat cars generated by Owl Mountain's new lumber loads, I thought some might find useful some anlaysis I did back in 2005 using my UP Fraley frt conductor book. This analyzes several trains carrying lumber east between Rawlins, WY, and Laramie. In particular, it is a study of SP cars in trains which I called "lumber trains" due to the nature of a significant amount of the train's contents.

The message:

"While beginning a look through my Fraley for autos & auto parts, I notice
three "lumber trains" heading east. The consists of these three trains are
interesting primarily because of the presence and lack thereof of SP cars.
The first train on Mar 3, '49, was 77 cars in length and contained 27 SP
cars carrying lumber. Of the 27, 25 were box cars and 2 were flats. Of the
25 box cars, 9 were 50 ft long. Two additional SP box cars were in the
train...40 fters carrying paper and something unreadable. There were 21 cars
of other RRs in the train carrying lumber. Thus, 35% of the train were SP
box cars, 32.5% were SP box cars carrying lumber and 62% were cars carrying
lumber. Compare this to a train on Apr 7, '49, which contained 98 cars. Of
these, 58 carried lumber and 4 were SP box cars. One more SP box car was in
the train giving SP box cars a 5% presence....closer to the national
average. The third train, on Apr 16, 1949, contained 93 cars. Of these, 34
were SP box cars, 32 carrying lumber. 27 other RR cars were also carrying
lumber. 36.6% of the cars were SP box cars, 34.4% were SP box cars carrying
carrying lumber. 27 other cars were also carrying lumber giving lumber
content cars 63.4% of the train. Trains 1 & 3 are remarkably similar in
content...as far as lumber and SP box cars is concerned. I am surprised at
the small number of flat cars carrying lumber."

I will note that I am not trying to suggest that flat cars didn't carry significant amounts of lumber...particularly SP flats. For example, there is a photo of an SP "lumber train" taken near Oak Ridge, OR, in 1948 and shown on pg 90 in Southern Pacific Official Color Photography, Vol 1 by Tony, which shows a long train of a large number of flat cars carrying lumber. The cars do show quite a bit of variance in the loadings.

I believe there are other sources of similar SP "lumber trains" consisting of SP flat cars but I have not run them down yet.

Mike Brock


Re: new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain

James Babcock
 

Points well taken.
Jim
 


On Thursday, August 21, 2014 6:03 PM, "John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Doug,

True, but I used that lumber door as an example of a requirement for hand stacking individual boards in a box vice the total accessibility of a flat.  Either way, even with a fork lift and shorter boards, loading and unloading a box was more labor intensive than a flat as you have to jockey the lumber through the doors.  Of course that only applies in 1:1 scale, on the model, the box car load of lumber is as easy as flipping the waybill, while the flat requires additional modeling effort that the Owl Mountain kit is designed to minimize.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682

From: "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain

 
John most lumber was not loaded through the end door (ie lumber door) on boxcars. It was loaded through the doors on the side of the car. The lumber door was only used for extremely long pieces, which could not be loaded in the normal fashion, through the side door via a roller stand and one guy handing up the sticks from the ground and a second guy inside stacking. Find some old logging videos to see how it was done.
 
As fork lifts came into use, lumber began to be bundled and handled by the forklift, double doors became more important.
 
 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:45 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain
 
 
Interesting point.  And one that makes eminent sense.  The advantage of MHE (material handling equipment) is one of the reasons lumber switched to flats from box cars.  When you are loading through a 2ft door on the end, you are hand stacking your load.  If the stack exceeds your forklift capacity, you are almost back to that same situation.  Stack size on a flat car not a rail car limit but that of the MHE on either end. 
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights
 
 
707-490-9696
 
3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682
 
From: "William Keene wakeene@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain
 
 
Hello Group,
 
This has been an interesting thread. Especially since I am right now developing what the flat car fleet should be for my layout. Thanks to all for the education.
 
I believe Doug might have hit on the reason that in the late 1950s lumber loads began to be split into two banded bundles athwart the deck of a flat car. My thought is that this was most likely done to ease loading and unloading with fork lift trucks. 
 
Cheers & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA
 
 
On Aug 21, 2014, at 12:38 PM, 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


 
Would another factor regarding lumber loads be the species? Different species have different weights per board ft. And this will vary greatly depending if we are talking green (ie wet) lumber or dry lumber. Kiln dry being perhaps the lightest. Treated or creosoted lumber could be the heaviest. Different weight may impact the size of the load, not so much determined by the flat car but rather by the equipment used to load or unload. I can recall helping a lumberyard, unload the trucks. They had a small forklift and for some of the larger dimensional lumber bundles we had to have a guy or two stand on the back bumper of the fork lift truck to help balance the load. If the supplier shipped too large of a bundle it could not be unloaded at the local yard.
 
Here is a chart showing the different weights by species: http://www.osbornelumber.net/weights--measures.html from a west coast lumber provider.
And here is a calculator for figuring the weight of different species. http://www.csgnetwork.com/lumberweight.html grant this calculator has mostly hardwoods listed, but you can quickly get an idea of how the weight varies between species.
 
Doug Harding
 
 
 
 





Re: new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain

Aley, Jeff A
 

Hi Tony,

 

               How does this compare against the AMB and GC Laser loads?  It appears that the Owl Mountain loads have much thinner boards (good!) but I’m not certain.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:07 AM
To: STMFC; Espee List
Subject: [STMFC] new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain

 

 

Owl Mountain Models has just released a superb new kit for flat car lumber loads. I will be doing a brief review of the kit in the Southern Pacific Society magazine, _Trainline_ in the upcoming issue, but a more extensive write-up has been posted to my blog. If you're interested it's at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2014/08/open-car-loads-lumber-from-owl-mountain.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: HOPPER CAR BRAKE RIGGING

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


Not quite that simple but close. Don't forget to remove the AB triple valve. The K system has a much smaller valve which is attached to the K reservoir. The K reservoir is often attached to the brake cylinder, but where space is a problem like the ends of hopper cars, it could be supplied as a separate item. I believe KC and KD were used to indentify the two arrangements, e.g. KD812, KC1012, etc. Because of a larger size, an AB reservoir couldn't always be mounted is the same place and orientation as the KD reservoir had been.
 
An 8x12" cylinder was standard in 1900, even for 50-ton cars. Shortly after, the more familiar 10x12" cylinder became standard for heavier cars including many 50-ton cars. Cars rebuilt in the 'teens often retained the older brake equipment. However, cars built before the 1911 act often had the older brake layout revised into compliance.
 
Eric N.
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 4:47 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: HOPPER CAR BRAKE RIGGING

 

Bill,

None of the "rodding" should be changed.  The foundation brake gear (those rods and levers) was designed to provide the proper braking force for the car based on the car's empty weight and a brake cylinder pressure of a given number of pounds per square inch.   The arrangement of foundation  brake gear actually had nothing to do with whether the brakes were K, AB or something else as long as the proper psi was delivered to a brake cylinder of the proper diameter.  Those of us working in HO do not, as yet, have any choice about brake cylinder diameter as far as I know.
Originally AB brake cylinders were designed to bolt onto the K brake's cylinder mounting  bracket.  The bolt-hole pattern was identical on H, K, AB and ABD.  (Beyond that we are getting too modern and outside STMFC time period.)   To backdate your car just install your K brake cylinder exactly where you originally put the AB  brake cylinder.  Voila!  You are done.

Gene Green


Re: new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain

John Barry
 

Doug,

True, but I used that lumber door as an example of a requirement for hand stacking individual boards in a box vice the total accessibility of a flat.  Either way, even with a fork lift and shorter boards, loading and unloading a box was more labor intensive than a flat as you have to jockey the lumber through the doors.  Of course that only applies in 1:1 scale, on the model, the box car load of lumber is as easy as flipping the waybill, while the flat requires additional modeling effort that the Owl Mountain kit is designed to minimize.
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain

 
John most lumber was not loaded through the end door (ie lumber door) on boxcars. It was loaded through the doors on the side of the car. The lumber door was only used for extremely long pieces, which could not be loaded in the normal fashion, through the side door via a roller stand and one guy handing up the sticks from the ground and a second guy inside stacking. Find some old logging videos to see how it was done.
 
As fork lifts came into use, lumber began to be bundled and handled by the forklift, double doors became more important.
 
 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:45 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain
 
 
Interesting point.  And one that makes eminent sense.  The advantage of MHE (material handling equipment) is one of the reasons lumber switched to flats from box cars.  When you are loading through a 2ft door on the end, you are hand stacking your load.  If the stack exceeds your forklift capacity, you are almost back to that same situation.  Stack size on a flat car not a rail car limit but that of the MHE on either end. 
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights
 
 
707-490-9696
 
3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682
 

From: "William Keene wakeene@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] new lumber load kit from Owl Mountain
 
 
Hello Group,
 
This has been an interesting thread. Especially since I am right now developing what the flat car fleet should be for my layout. Thanks to all for the education.
 
I believe Doug might have hit on the reason that in the late 1950s lumber loads began to be split into two banded bundles athwart the deck of a flat car. My thought is that this was most likely done to ease loading and unloading with fork lift trucks. 
 
Cheers & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA
 
 
On Aug 21, 2014, at 12:38 PM, 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


 
Would another factor regarding lumber loads be the species? Different species have different weights per board ft. And this will vary greatly depending if we are talking green (ie wet) lumber or dry lumber. Kiln dry being perhaps the lightest. Treated or creosoted lumber could be the heaviest. Different weight may impact the size of the load, not so much determined by the flat car but rather by the equipment used to load or unload. I can recall helping a lumberyard, unload the trucks. They had a small forklift and for some of the larger dimensional lumber bundles we had to have a guy or two stand on the back bumper of the fork lift truck to help balance the load. If the supplier shipped too large of a bundle it could not be unloaded at the local yard.
 
Here is a chart showing the different weights by species: http://www.osbornelumber.net/weights--measures.html from a west coast lumber provider.
And here is a calculator for figuring the weight of different species. http://www.csgnetwork.com/lumberweight.html grant this calculator has mostly hardwoods listed, but you can quickly get an idea of how the weight varies between species.
 
Doug Harding
 
 
 
 


67621 - 67640 of 194687