Date   

Re: details (was Lights out at the "Pub")

A&Y Dave in MD
 

True, but some take time to appreciate that they have the choice. One modeler I knew in the 70's invited first time visitors to run a train on his layout. He didn't offer any guidance or announce it was a test, but he noted how you approached the offer and how you performed and after a circuit around the layout he would tell you if you looked like a passenger engineer, freight hogger, or simply a brakeman. That designation, he told you, would determine what jobs and what trust level you could earn. Some visitors took a while but worked their way to higher trust, others got high trust by their obvious care and willingness to run at scale speeds naturally, and some never got it, and eventually weren't invited back. Time allows for some growth, and still allows for basket cases to be "designated for assignment."

Since he was my best friend's neighbor, I appreciated his willingness to let this brakeman learn over time :-)

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Aug 23, 2014, at 5:00 PM, "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

And seriousness is not a function of time. It's a
choice.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Lights out at the "Pub"

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony, what I said was in the context of referring to the current practice
of heavily weathered models --

http://www.mellowmike.com/Macro/MILW86_EB1.jpg
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z86/88_Fiero_2M4/ADMHopper.jpg
http://www.hubhobbyshop.com/hint49d.JPG

That level of rust and filth obviously existed prior to 1990, but it was
not the majority of freight cars.

After 1990 (a ballpark figure) it's not hard to find incredibly dirty cars,
to say nothing of graffiti.
http://www.prestoimages.net/store30/rd6049/6049_page73222.jpg

Whatever. YMMV.



I haven't "forgotten" anything. I don't model yards before 1950 -- Why should
I care what they look like? From 1950 to 1960 railroads and private owners bought
about 700,000 new freight cars and probably repainted a similar number of cars . . .

      Ah, yes, but you specifically said "before 1990." I was just responding to that, in that not EVERYTHING before 1990 was the 1950-60 stuff.

Tony Thompson


Re: details (was Lights out at the "Pub")

Tim O'Connor
 

Repairing broken cars goes with the territory Ben. I'm just saying that the
bad order ratio at the RPI club is much less than the 50% ratio found at the
clubs I've belonged to. And seriousness is not a function of time. It's a
choice.

Tim O'Connor

"On the other hand, when I operate on the RPI club, there are literally hundreds of
finely detailed, undamaged freight cars. So maybe there's a lesson here -- If you
operate with yahoos and bozos, you have to expect the consequences. But if your
operators are serious modelers and respectful of equipment, then detail to your
heart's content!"

That's because most of the damaged ones have been pulled off the layout. I've got quite
of few of them on my rip track. New members don't become serious members overnight.

Ben Hom


Re: Weathering was Fwd: Lights out at the "Pub"

genegreen1942@...
 

I wonder (idly) how many of us model an idealized version of reality. Is our weathering lighter than reality would have it, our buildings in a little better repair or – in my case, growing up in northern Iowa – are our automobiles a lot less rusty than they really were. Perhaps we are recreating a revisionist version of an idealized time gone by less as we remember it and more as we wish it had been.

That said, right now my model railroad is suffering under a nationwide strike of all workers; nothing is moving, no work is being done.


Gene Green



Re: Lights out at the "Pub"

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

I haven't "forgotten" anything. I don't model yards before 1950 -- Why should
I care what they look like? From 1950 to 1960 railroads and private owners bought
about 700,000 new freight cars and probably repainted a similar number of cars . . .


      Ah, yes, but you specifically said "before 1990." I was just responding to that, in that not EVERYTHING before 1990 was the 1950-60 stuff.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Lights out at the "Pub"

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony,

I haven't "forgotten" anything. I don't model yards before 1950 -- Why should
I care what they look like? From 1950 to 1960 railroads and private owners bought
about 700,000 new freight cars and probably repainted a similar number of cars.
If there were ever an era on American railroads where you could find a lot of
very clean freight cars, it was the 1955 to 1965 era, which happens to be my
main era of interest.

I'm not advocating lots of shiny cars. I'm just saying they were not an unusual
sight at the end of the steam era. I'm looking at my favorite shot of SP's Bullring
yard now -- dozens of fairly new (less than 5 yrs old) freight cars -- and there
on one of the tracks, a spanking shiny new SP box car.

Tim


Tim, you forget how dirty freight cars often were in the steam era. Look at photos from before 1950 to refresh your memory. And I have possession of photos taken in those days within a month or two of the manufacture of a particular freight car, and there is a definite haze of dirt and dust already. I would say any transition era layout had better NOT have more than one SHINY NEW car.

Tony Thompson


Weathering was Fwd: Lights out at the "Pub"

Craig Zeni
 

On Aug 23, 2014, at 1:21 PM, STMFC@... wrote:

1.9. Re: Fwd: Lights out at the "Pub"
Posted by: "Tony Thompson" tony@... sigpress
Date: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:21 am ((PDT))

Tim O'Connor wrote:

lol -- yeah, "weathering" these days seems to be synomymous with "incredibly
rusted and filthy". If you model any era before the year 1990, you might want
to lighten up on the filth! :-)

It's funny how rarely people model SHINY BRAND NEW freight cars . . .

Tim, you forget how dirty freight cars often were in the steam era. Look at photos from before 1950 to refresh your memory. And I have possession of photos taken in those days within a month or two of the manufacture of a particular freight car, and there is a definite haze of dirt and dust already. I would say any transition era layout had better NOT have more than one SHINY NEW car.
Tony, that dirtiness was an appreciation that I took away from the clinics that you and Richard did at Cocoa. And from that I adopted your acrylic wash methods and added to them with Bragdon powders and Prismacolor pencils and create grimy dirty cars. Three years ago at Cocoa people were asking why I didn't weather my models - I didn't know how or rather couldn't do it as I could not get past my fear of ruining a model. I went to your clinic; two years ago one of the same guys who asked my why I didn't weather was asking me how I did it :) So thanks!

But what I've noted is that while steam era cars were filthy, they weren't necessarily rusted crusty scabby messes on wheels the way modern weathered cars seem to be with sheets of paint replaced by rust and sides covered in graffito. At the St Louis RPM meet were the guys who do the modern cars and do a superb job of replicating that on models. But that look I don't think is appropriate for steam era equipment; not the giant scabs of rust and certainly not the graffito.

Craig Zeni
Sent from my soup can with the string pulled really tight.


Schaumburg's E Mail address

Mikebrock
 

Guys,
I need Bill Schaumburg's E Mail address. The previous one that I have:

editorbill@...

apparently is no longer working.

Please send it to me at:

brockm@...

Thanks,

Mike Brock


Re: Lights out at the "Pub"

caboose9792@...
 

Reportedly they are selling RMC and R&R magazines to another publisher. If they honor the old subscriptions is to be seen.
 
Mark Rickert
 
In a message dated 8/23/2014 2:06:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:

 

I should have known.  Subscribed for the first time in many years as the local Hobbytown USA decided to drop Model Railroad Magazines.   Well, at least I got one issue out of 12.   Also subscribed to Railfan &Railroad.   Wonder if they will do anything for the subscriptions….

Charlie Vlk


Re: Lights out at the "Pub"

caboose9792@...
 

Strangely they had no problem with renewal notices in my snail mailbox or sending me ads in my email box, last ad was in my email was the end of June. Last reply I got from them was mid-July about an order. On the plus side they did have money to go to the NMRA nationals, which is not a cheep event.
 
Mark Rickert

In a message dated 8/23/2014 12:03:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:

Although I have received vibes of Carstens financial difficulty for now several years (authors not being paid), I smelled a rat when inadvertently my subscription ran out last Fall, and despite eMails, etc. I received no interest at all in effecting a renewal- none.


Re: Lights out at the "Pub"

Pierre Oliver
 

Tony has nailed it right on the head.
As saddened as I am at the passing of an iconic publication, it is myself and my fellow modelers I feel sorry for, not the publisher.
He made his bed and now he gets to lie in it.
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 8/23/2014 3:43 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

      As I said to FHenry Carstens on more than one occasion, the author payment issue need not be an issue. Either decide you cannot afford to pay authors, and make that announcement -- then people know where they stand when deciding to submit or not -- OR announce that you pay for articles, and then DO SO. To pretend you will pay, and then not pay, is dishonest and sends a very bad message about the magazine.

       Speaking for myself, I have happily submitted articles to the magazine of my historical society (SPH&TS) with full knowledge that there was no payment. That was fine. But when Henry stiffed me on articles already published, I said "no more."

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Lights out at the "Pub"

Tony Thompson
 

      As I said to FHenry Carstens on more than one occasion, the author payment issue need not be an issue. Either decide you cannot afford to pay authors, and make that announcement -- then people know where they stand when deciding to submit or not -- OR announce that you pay for articles, and then DO SO. To pretend you will pay, and then not pay, is dishonest and sends a very bad message about the magazine.
       Speaking for myself, I have happily submitted articles to the magazine of my historical society (SPH&TS) with full knowledge that there was no payment. That was fine. But when Henry stiffed me on articles already published, I said "no more."

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Lights out at the "Pub"

John Barry
 

Clark,

You make an excellent point about the demise.  We all share the responsibility.  Me for only occasionally purchasing issue with an article that hit my interest rather than subscribing, CSRM for dropping their subscription in the face of budget cuts a couple years ago, the advertisers that withdrew in the face of declining circulation, the printing an postage costs that skyrocketed increasing the need for cash flow, the business decision that led to the alienation of the author base.  Is there one root cause that can identify where things could be different had it been alleviated?  I can not answer, as I was not there.  If a small number of fixable problems, RMC will survive in someone else's hands.  If not, attempts at resuscitation will fail as the thousand cuts will continue to bleed.  I miss RMJ and PM as well, and the problem with both of those for me was that I either was not aware of them during their heyday, or I cherry picked issues and like MM and now RMC, there were others that did not support them and they suffered the same fate.

Instead of bemoaning  their shuttering, we should be discussing what we liked in each, and more importantly for a white knight, what we are willing to pay for.  We have a need to have accurate information about prototypes, models, and techniques.  What would make us open our wallets and pay someone to provide that information.  That publisher needs funds to entice authors such as yourself to put forth the effort to create a usable and informative article.  Authors need to evaluate what kind of compensation they need for the time and effort of producing an article.  Some where in that sea of variables is the potential for a new model for the content of RMC.  
 
John Barry


ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights


707-490-9696


3450 Palmer Drive, Suite 4224
Cameron Park, CA 95682


From: "cepropst@q.com [STMFC]"
To: STMFC
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 6:39 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Fwd: Lights out at the "Pub"

 
Very sad to hear about such a hobby institution failing.
 
Recently I got an email from Bill, bless his heart, he have caught wind of a project I was working on and sheepishly asked if I would do an article for them. I had to reply that wasn’t going to happen because I hadn’t been paid of the last article.
I don’t know who made the decision to not paid their contributors, but it definitely caused a downward spiral. Bill would be doing his best to drum up business at RPM meets. Guys would say they’d heard that they didn’t pay in a timely manner. I’d reluctantly confirm what they’d heard and you could see those guys turn away from Bill’s efforts....
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa



Re: Lights out at the "Pub"

Charlie Vlk
 

I should have known.  Subscribed for the first time in many years as the local Hobbytown USA decided to drop Model Railroad Magazines.   Well, at least I got one issue out of 12.   Also subscribed to Railfan &Railroad.   Wonder if they will do anything for the subscriptions….

Charlie Vlk


The Value of Essential Freight Cars (Was: Lights out at the Pub)

Clark Propst
 

I was thinking the same as John. While deserving of all the praise, what good are articles about kits that are no longer available?
 
But, Jack makes a good point. There are guys that still have unbuilt Sunshine kits.
 
Actually, I’ve dug a couple of the articles out to use when building/kitbashing plastic cars.
 
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Lights out at the "Pub" (Refunds)

Tony Thompson
 

Steve Crise (on another list) wrote:

 
Don't count on getting anything back. Carstens had stopped paying contributors years ago and oddly enough had not kept up on billing to their advertisers. 
I know this because I was on both ends of the equation.  

     Speak for yourself, Steve, but Signature Press, which advertised in every RMC issue, was billed regularly, including just last month for the June issue (the last one).

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Lights out at the "Pub" (Refunds)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Originally posted on Model Railroads of Southern California by author and railroad photographer Steve Crise:

Don't count on getting anything back. Carstens had stopped paying contributors years ago and oddly enough had not kept up on billing to their advertisers. 


I know this because I was on both ends of the equation.  

With that business dynamic in place for a good amount of years, I can't imagine there being anything left in the coffers to start doling out subscription refunds. 


Steve Crise


Re: Was - Re: Lights out at the "Pub"

Tony Thompson
 

Jim Betz wrote (in part):

8) Quite some time after I dropped my subscriptions
the online mag "MRH" came out. (Isn't in just
a bit interesting that none of the hobby mags
have decided to try out the MRH model in a
serious way? Old habits -are- hard to break.)
But even that I don't "read every month" ...

As it happens, Joe Fugate worked for Kalmbach (in the area of video) back around ten years ago, and as he has stated in public, urged them repeatedly to move toward a "free content" electronic version. Eventually he got tired of the lack of interest and decided to do it himself. The result is a thriving and valuable resource, MRH.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Was - Re: Lights out at the "Pub"

Jim Betz
 

Hi,


So I'm going to 'admit my dirty little secret' ...

A -long- time ago ... at least a decade and
perhaps more than 2 decades ... I dropped
ALL of my magazine subscriptions.

Why? They kept piling up without being read.
Then I'd go on a binge for a single evening and
catch up on -several months- of MR and RMC.
Obviously I wasn't 'reading every word and
looking at most of the ads any more. So I bagged
the subscriptions. Right at a time in my modeling
life when I was ramping up on more and more
time spent on the hobby!

Some of the broad spectrum of reasons are:

1) I'd been in the hobby long enough that
my modeling skills and interests had
'matured'. (Please don't show this to
my wife ... she might die laughing at my
use of that term.) As in - the repeating
articles on the same old topics didn't
interest me any more.

2) The ratio of the content to ads of the mags
had changed - significantly - in the wrong
direction. Not only were they devoting
more and more pages to all ads ... but the
articles and columns were getting shorter
and shorter.

3) The articles and columns seemed to be less
and less relevant (I'd moved more towards
"prototype modeling" and away from "just
model trains").

4) I asked myself how valuable were the mags
(to me) if I could catch up on as much as 6
months or more of two magazines ... in a
single evening. For about 10 seconds I
debated "which one to keep?" and then as
soon as I said to myself "why not drop both"
the decision was made.

5) Many of my friends had subscriptions and
when I went to their house I could catch
up ... in the free time between the parts of
the conversation I was interested in ... so I
didn't 'need' my own subscription.

6) At one point I didn't read any of the mags
(any where) for about 18 months ... and
didn't seem to miss it. When I discovered
that it had been that long I didn't "panic".

7) I had discovered and started to use Yahoo
groups. STMFC among many.

8) Quite some time after I dropped my subscriptions
the online mag "MRH" came out. (Isn't in just
a bit interesting that none of the hobby mags
have decided to try out the MRH model in a
serious way? Old habits -are- hard to break.)
But even that I don't "read every month" ...

So do I wish for the mags to continue. Yes ... but
only sort of ... as in - if they went back to more content
and more of the content was more relevant to my
interests (prototype info, ops, and DCC/electronics).

I'll creep back into the dark corner of the train room
for now ... thanks for listening ... hope my 'secret'
didn't shock you ... too much ...
- Jim Betz


Re: details (was Lights out at the "Pub")

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"On the other hand, when I operate on the RPI club, there are literally hundreds of
finely detailed, undamaged freight cars. So maybe there's a lesson here -- If you
operate with yahoos and bozos, you have to expect the consequences. But if your
operators are serious modelers and respectful of equipment, then detail to your
heart's content!"
That's because most of the damaged ones have been pulled off the layout.  I've got quite of few of them on my rip track.  New members don't become serious members overnight.


Ben Hom

69701 - 69720 of 196837