Date   

Re: The Ephemeral Nature of Modeling

arved_grass
 

I would be hard pressed to pay that much for a RP Cyc, but since they are OOP, it's a seller's market. May I ask where you found them?

RP Cyc volume 1 is available for $20.95, either directly from the publisher, or from dealers. I just got Volume 1 a couple weeks ago, and have fallen in love with the format. I can hardly wait to fill my library with these. And that's exactly what I paid - $20.95 plus postage. $100 may be the asking price, and "a fool and his money are soon parted," but I tend to doubt anyone looking for Volume 1 couldn't find it at a much more reasonable price than $100!

OTOH, RMC back issues (to collect the EFC series) are much more expensive usually. Refer to Railpub.com for more realistic pricing. If I could get the EFC series at 50 cents an issue, I'd gladly fork over the dough (even if it meant having to buy issues I already own).
------------------------
Arved Grass
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 8/24/14, golden1014@yahoo.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] The Ephemeral Nature of Modeling
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 24, 2014, 11:22 AM


 









Hi Richard,,I'm risking
moderator jail here--been there before and it's not fun,
but I'm sure Tim O will be there sooner or later to keep
me company.  
I like
being called a vocal minority--it's the first time
I've ever been called vocal.  On the other hand
I've been getting a lot of death threats about my post
so I'll take being vocal and run with it!  And I'm
just kidding for all you lawyers out there.
Nevertheless I stand by my comments.
 If EFC is so valuable, then where is the much-sought after
book?  The book would surely make Ted wealthy and help keep
RMC in business, and foster new models.  Instead, RMC is
gone and there's still no book deal.  Conversely, look
at RP Cyc.  I saw an ad last night where RP Cycs 4, 5, 6,
7, and 8 are up to $75 ea.  RP Cyc #1 goes for $100.  What
does an RMC with EFC go for?  Fifty cents?  So where is
your hobby dollar best spent?  I can spent $100 max on my
hobby every month and that's it.  I'm going for RP
Cyc.  I can't afford to buy a $90 Sunshine kit on
EBay.
The word
ephemeral means that an object loses value over time.  Read
carefully: I didn't say that EFC was valueless--I think
I said it was outstanding or something to that effect,
because it is.  But I still think you would be disappointed
with the book, because you probably already have all the
articles, or you probably have most of the histocial
information in your library, or you don't want to spend
$90 a pop to get the model of EBay.  Personally speaking I
can't afford to spend that $100 on something I already
have.
Do we still
follow Mont's excellent articles on kitbashing a Monon
1958 covered hopper using the MDC model as found in MM
1980-something?  Nope, because the MDC model was supplanted
by the Kato model, and then the Bowser model, and then the
Intermountain model.  If any article is valuable to you I
will not argue, but as your friend and fellow modeler I
think you would find that the book would be not as essential
as you thought, because you already have the information in
hand elsewhere (as I stated initially).  
In the meantime, this vocal minority
is wasting his time cobbling together the one-of-a-kind
Sunshine IC two-pocket hopper, RP Cyc in hand.  Not a bad
build but slow.  I hope to have it done for Naperville,
just in time for the all-new HO scale model to be announced
(no kidding).  
Hey,
where's Tim?
John
GoldenO'Fallon, IL











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Re: The Ephemeral Nature of Modeling

arved_grass
 

I recently purchased two of the 40' Ribside Car kits. I'd certainly like to know Ted's (or anyone else's) problems and suggestions as well. Compared to the old Train Miniature car, these models seem fantastic. Is it simply a case of prefering a resin kit when it's available? He doesn't strike me as a snob. You all know him much better than I do.

Speaking of "Ephemeral" models, Volume II of the Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia includes:

"Modeling ART's First Steel Reefer (10 pages)
by Charles Duckworth

"The American Refrigerator Company purchased more than 1,000 steel reefers in 1936 that were clones to the PFE R-40-10. A history of the prototype cars is presented along with a roster of these cars and other similar ART cars built from 1939 to 1946. Models were fabricated by kitbashing an InterMountain Railway PFE R-40-23 reefer and installing square corner 4-4 Dreadnaught Ends and other details. A two-page ART lettering diagram (circa 1950s) is provided. Since the Volume 2 was published, accurate models are now available from Sunshine Models."

Well, now that very, VERY good (IMHO) R-40-10 models are available from Intermountain, I am wondering how relavent this article would be to adapting these models for the ART. Unfortunately, this volume is OOP, and my efforts to locate a copy have been nil (although, to be honest, I only began my search 6 months ago, and I keep hoping the issues no longer available from RP CYC Publishing Co. will show up in used bookstores (Railpubs.com, ABE books, etc.) or eBay, but they have so far evaded me.

Respectfully,
------------------------
Arved Grass
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 8/24/14, cepropst@q.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [STMFC] Re: The Ephemeral Nature of Modeling
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 24, 2014, 11:03 AM


 













Ha, ha Bill.
 
Ted did a Milwaukee ribside box car in his series. He
chose the Sunshine
model. I asked him why he didn’t use the Ribside Cars
version that everyone
could get their hands on? His answer was that the Ribside
Cars model was crap.
He looked one over and threw it in the trash.
Now which would had served the readers better, how to
assemble another
resin kit, or how to bring the Ribside Cars model as close
to his standard as he
could?
That was my only beef with the series.
 
As discussed on this list before another issue facing
potential article
readers is that donor car kits are darn near impossible for
the average guy to
find anymore. Let alone paint and especially decals.
There’s a tend here fellas whether we like it or not.
The stuff we like is,
what could be called, Fringe Modeling. The magazines we held
dear are gone and
quality kits are extinct.
 
Can’t wait for the responses to this email  ; 
))
Clark

Propst
Mason City Iowa










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Re: Degrees of Weathering

Benjamin Hom
 

Arved Grass wrote:


"Yet, in all the photos of PFE cars I've studied, I can't remember a single one showing a rusted out ice bunk."

Produce reefers didn't use brine.  Additionally, PFE was very aggressive when it came to maintenance, as noted in Tony's book.
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: Degrees of Weathering

arved_grass
 

Salt is a pretty aggresive corrosive agent. Research has pointed to the Chlorine ions (Cl-) being the specific culprit in aircraft structures (which are mostly Aluminum, but the effect is the same on ferrous materials), and I can't think of a more salt-rich (and thus corrosion prone) environment than the brine in a reefer's ice bunk. Yet, in all the photos of PFE cars I've studied, I can't remember a single one showing a rusted out ice bunk. Perhaps someone can point out some examples I haven't seen, or can't remember, but I simply cannot recall seeing anythinig like the rust modern freight car modelers have to reproduce.

Yes, I have read "Pacific Fruit Express" by Tony Thompson et al, and reference is made to corrosion problems and concerns with the ice bunks particularly in the move from wooden to steel (and aluminum) cars, but I don't remember seeing photographic evidence of the problems encountered. I'm willing to admit this may be a memory problem more than a lack of documentation. But as I deal with corrosion on a professional level (why? because despite all the problems we face with aircraft, "rust" is the one thing everyone seems to be able to understand - it's the lowest common denominator as far as problem understanding goes), I tend to pay attention when I see similar problems in other fields.

I think part of "it" was the fact that in the "Steam Era" we didn't have as much of a "disposable society," and equipment was expected to last far beyond expiration of its equipment trust. It was a much more man-power intensive time than it is today.

I could comment on how business (not just railroads) seem to prefer paying taxes toward unemployment and welfare than hire people to care for and maintain capital assets, but since commenting on business practices is verbotten, I'll excercise restraint in order to avoid moderator jail time.

------------------------
Arved Grass
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 8/24/14, anthony wagner anycw1@sbcglobal.net [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Degrees of Weathering
To: "STMFC@yahoogroups.com" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, August 24, 2014, 8:14 AM


 









I'm going to
stick my 2 cents in and observe that the paint used in the
steam era didn't hold up for decades the way it seems to
nowadays and I'd guess that cars still deemed essential
by their owners were subject to periodic trips to a carshop
for minor upgrades, if required, and certainly a repainting.
That would have eliminated the most extreme weathering
examples that I have seen in photos, taken mostly in the
fifties and later, when budgets were being squeezed and many
of the cars themselves were already becoming obsolescent. To
be sure there was still heavy weathering in steam days but,
as pointed out, mostly not to the extent seen later. Tony
Wagner


On Sunday, August
24, 2014 6:34 AM, "Olesen & Larsen
BROTVL@DADLNET.DK [STMFC]"
<STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




 














Mike
Brock asked: ...Do gentlemen have to wear ties?


I
think the closest to a proper definition is made by W. C.
Fields (making movies
in the STMFC era):

 

“A gentleman is a man who can play the
accordion but
doesn't.”

 

The rest is
optional.

 

Tom Larsen

Holte,
Denmark






















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Re: Unusual Load - Old Telephone Directories

Edward
 

Gary asked:As noted before, the door opens to the left, unlike the USRA double sheathed boxcar.  Could it be a Leigh Valley boxcar?  
 
Lehigh Valley was not the only road to have left-opening box car doors. There were a few others but LV no doubt was best known for them.

B&O had some left opening box cars.The earliest was the M-12 class 36' double sheathed cars built by ACF in 1902.

In addiiton there were a number of M-15 40' double sheathed box cars built as double door (door-and-half ? - the opening was 10' wide) cars built by  Baltimore Car & Foundry in 1910-11. They were later converted to class M-15h. This was done by removing the right hand door and filling in the car side, leaving the centered, left-hand door intact.

A number of other M-15 class box cars were rebuilt with wagon top bodies from 1934 to 1936. With new steel bodies, their doors opened to the right.

Ed Bommer





Re: The final word on Gerry Glow?

Rex Racer
 

I HOPE that he follows through with this statement. He has had my money and order sinc eht beginning of the year and no longer responds to emails to even attempt to offer a reason he hasn't shipped or returned the money. As I understand, I am one of the luck ones...others have had unfilled orders for over two years. I'm sorry that he's closing his business, especially since I would much rather have the decals, but he has apparently quit running his business over a year ago...Jeff Maurer
Sacramento Ca


Re: Lights out at the "Pub"

Charles Hladik
 

    It's also a lot easier to have that paper copy at the workbench while building that steam era freight car.
Chuck Hladik
 

In a message dated 8/25/2014 10:21:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

It's hard to believe but I think it has been a decade and a half since I
read the first rant from a magazine editor warning of the evils of "the
internet". IRRC that was the first magazine to pull the plug.

I wrote a rebuttal back then... it's all old news but it was clear to me
that even 15 years ago, the printed magazines were scrambling to hold on to
their relevancy, and apparently that included discrediting other sources of
information.

Which is pretty fascinating - as recently as 2014, a major manufacturer put
out a product based on mediocre drawings published more than 35 years ago -
the third manufacturer to do so - when this particular item is so well
documented you could probably find out the wire gauge and tension force of
the toilet paper holder retainer spring.

I think before the mid 1990s, the hobby press enjoyed an elite
status. Once published, it had to be true. Corrections never received the
hype of the original cover story, nor would anyone have paid attention even
if they did. Once the barn doors were open, and the e-waves filled up with
the unwashed masses rubbing elbows with the same elitists that wrote the
articles, came the realization that everyone is human, and anyone can make
mistakes. And that the best way to get at the truth is to sift through it
all, and never limit your fact finding to a single anointed source.

I've enjoyed all the magazines over the years. I grew up with them, and
often late at night my dreams were fueled by articles published before I
was born, from my dad's stack of musty old issues of MR, RMC and Model
Trains (remember them?). But in terms of prototype modeling there's no
putting the genie back in the bottle and I wouldn't even if I could. I
really don't know where paper press is headed, and it's not my problem to
solve. Personally, I prefer paper. While I like the concept of MRH and
acknowledge its growth guess what... I don't read it! In fact, I rarely
read anything on line that is more than a page. I don't own a kindle or
anything like it either. I still was buying hobby magazines right up until
their last day.

Andy


Re: Unusual Load - Old Telephone Directories

Benjamin Hom
 

Tom Casey wrote:
http://digital.library.louisville.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/royal/id/3508/rec/1191

Looking through the slats of the truck, my guess at the car number is "8405", and it also still has the K brake, on what appears to be an unrebuilt 40' double sheathed box car.  The interior framing of the roof suggests a Murphy flexible flat panel roof.  Could this be a USRA car?"
Absolutely not.  Note that the car has a left-opening door.

Ben Hom


Re: Lights out at the "Pub"

Andy Harman
 

At 12:43 PM 8/23/2014 -0700, you wrote:
Speaking for myself, I have happily submitted articles to the magazine of my historical society (SPH&TS) with full knowledge that there was no payment.
When I submitting my article to RMC, it was rather naively with no expectation of payment - at least not with any number in mind. I had no idea whether to expect 5 bucks, 500 bucks, or 5000 bucks. I wasn't doing it for the money. I was documenting a model I would have built anyway, and with any luck I'd get an ego trip out of it. In the end, I was paid quite a bit more than I expected. Enough to at least cover the cost of materials for the model including a lot of stuff that basically was scrapped in the process. Not enough to quit my day job or try to make a living at it, or even something I could count on to pay for my hobby. I'm glad I did it, but I never did another print article. I prefer the 2-way presentation of a clinic or just documenting progress on line. The whole status thing of being a published author went from a big time goal to a novelty to BTDT got the T shirt in a very short span of time.

I managed to survive my thirties and forties without giving in to the temptation to try and turn my hobby into a business. Somewhere along the way I learned from other people's mistakes. As to the many who have done so and in the process greatly enhanced my own modeling experience - it's great as long as it's fun. When I see a friend who used to be a hard core modeler now on the other side of the fence grousing about rivet counters, all I can say is another one bites the dust. I'm going to stay on this side of the fence.

Andy


Re: Unusual Load - Old Telephone Directories

gary laakso
 

As noted before, the door opens to the left, unlike the USRA double sheathed boxcar.  Could it be a Leigh Valley boxcar?  
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock, sans a Bolo
 

Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Unusual Load - Old Telephone Directories
 
 

Lookinh th rought the slats of the truck, my guess at the car number is "8405", and it also still has the K brake, on what appears to be an unrebuilt 40' double sheathed box car.  The interior framing of the roof suggests a Murphy flexible flat panel roof.  
 
Could this be a USRA car?
 
Tom Casey
Perhaps an example of early recycling, this is a circa 1942 photo of old Southern Bell Telephone Company telephone directories being loaded into a boxcar.  The photo is from the University of Louisville’s digital collection.
 
 
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Lights out at the "Pub"

Andy Harman
 

At 10:21 AM 8/23/2014 -0700, you wrote:

It's funny how rarely people model SHINY BRAND NEW freight cars . . .
Watching the lines in and around Pullman Standard's Hammond plant, it was fairly common to see a cut of shiny brand new freight cars. But like a lot of things, shine doesn't scale down well. It's difficult enough to photograph a 1:1 piece of rolling stock that has a shine on it, even more so for a model. Definitely something to be uses sparingly.

Andy


Re: Lights out at the "Pub"

Andy Harman
 

It's hard to believe but I think it has been a decade and a half since I read the first rant from a magazine editor warning of the evils of "the internet". IRRC that was the first magazine to pull the plug.

I wrote a rebuttal back then... it's all old news but it was clear to me that even 15 years ago, the printed magazines were scrambling to hold on to their relevancy, and apparently that included discrediting other sources of information.

Which is pretty fascinating - as recently as 2014, a major manufacturer put out a product based on mediocre drawings published more than 35 years ago - the third manufacturer to do so - when this particular item is so well documented you could probably find out the wire gauge and tension force of the toilet paper holder retainer spring.

I think before the mid 1990s, the hobby press enjoyed an elite status. Once published, it had to be true. Corrections never received the hype of the original cover story, nor would anyone have paid attention even if they did. Once the barn doors were open, and the e-waves filled up with the unwashed masses rubbing elbows with the same elitists that wrote the articles, came the realization that everyone is human, and anyone can make mistakes. And that the best way to get at the truth is to sift through it all, and never limit your fact finding to a single anointed source.

I've enjoyed all the magazines over the years. I grew up with them, and often late at night my dreams were fueled by articles published before I was born, from my dad's stack of musty old issues of MR, RMC and Model Trains (remember them?). But in terms of prototype modeling there's no putting the genie back in the bottle and I wouldn't even if I could. I really don't know where paper press is headed, and it's not my problem to solve. Personally, I prefer paper. While I like the concept of MRH and acknowledge its growth guess what... I don't read it! In fact, I rarely read anything on line that is more than a page. I don't own a kindle or anything like it either. I still was buying hobby magazines right up until their last day.

Andy


Re: Unusual Load - Old Telephone Directories

tyesac@...
 

Lookinh th rought the slats of the truck, my guess at the car number is "8405", and it also still has the K brake, on what appears to be an unrebuilt 40' double sheathed box car.  The interior framing of the roof suggests a Murphy flexible flat panel roof.  
 
Could this be a USRA car?
 
Tom Casey

Perhaps an example of early recycling, this is a circa 1942 photo of old Southern Bell Telephone Company telephone directories being loaded into a boxcar.  The photo is from the University of Louisville’s digital collection.
 
 
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Degrees of Weathering

arved_grass
 

I think it's against the law to wear a tie here in Florida, Mike. But if you feel compelled, I think you'd look best in a Bolo. :-D
------------------------
Arved Grass
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 8/24/14, 'Mike Brock' brockm@cfl.rr.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [STMFC] Degrees of Weathering
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 24, 2014, 12:07 AM


 









Lots of opinions today. Frankly, I'm just
concerned that I was almost

referred to as a gentleman.



I guess we ought to get back to frt cars. And, having said
that, I am NOT

taking issue with the degree of weathering that one might
wish to apply to a

steam era frt car, but I will note that I see in many photos
a surprising

lack of really heavy weathering...i.e. with paint jobs
obscured by dirt,

rain, sun faded, various commodities, and even the result of
traveling

through many tunnels. There is no doubt that steam era frt
cars were not

clean by anyone's criteria. OTOH, when viewed from a
distance, the lettering

is often not concealed by extreme weathering although
sometimes it is.

Probably my favorite weathering photo of the 40's is
that on the May '92

cover of MM, the Proviso frt yard in Chicago in May '43,
photo taken by

Delano. The numerous cars are fairly easy to determine their
owners from

their lettering. I seriously doubt that the C&NW cars
were recently washed

nor do I believe that Chicago was a strong leader in clean
air policies in

'43. Let me hasten to add that the numerous cars shown
in the photo are NOT

spotless as a model might appear straight from a
manufacturer. I will also

note that one nice aspect of weathering is its ability to
cover up flaws by

the model's builder [ gasp ].



I'll add that the case for weathering [ probably
primarily sun fading ] is

vividly displayed on the long trains of PFE reefers which
seem to contain

every shade of Daylight Orange that could possibly occur.
Nevertheless,

usually the PFE lettering is visible.



Mike Brock...Do gentlemen have to wear ties?













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Re: Dalman 1 level trucks

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Group!

Tim's response to the question----

"
What is the best stand-in for HO scale Dalman-1 level trucks?.........
 TMW #202s are quite close - as close as you're 
going to get."  Attributed to Richard Hendrickson
 is helpful.  However, this answer appears to apply to the 50 ton application as Richard's response was with respect to ATSF Bx-11/12 boxcars.  Since there were then contemporary 70 ton applications (hoppers and gondolas) of the Dalman 1-level truck,  does the same recommendation apply?  In my brief review of some photos, I would say it might.  The wheel base is good at 5'- 8" as well.

Are there any better choices????    Regards---Mike Schleigh
 


Re: Vintage-Dating Freight Cars With Weathering

Max Robin
 

Mr. Hom,

 

I would greatly appreciate a copy of the above pdf file. Thank you for offering.

 

Thank you for sharing,

 

 

Max S. Robin, PE

Email:     m_robin@...  ç [m underscore robin at cheatriver dot com, all lower case w/ no spaces]

 

Smail:    Max S. Robin, PE

              Cheat River Engineering Inc.

              P. O. Box 289

              Denville, NJ 07834

 

Max

Email:    m_robin@...  ç [m underscore robin at cheatriver dot com, all lower case w/ no spaces]

 

Smail:   Max S. Robin, PE

              Cheat River Engineering Inc.

              P. O. Box 289

              Denville, NJ 07834

 

Voice:  973 – 945 – 5007 (9:00am-10:00pm M-F, Eastern)

 

 

 


Re: Dalman 1 level trucks

Tim O'Connor
 

What is the best stand-in for HO scale Dalman-1 level trucks?
> I know some time ago Richard responded to the same question but
> unfortuntely I cannot find that post.
> Peter Aue

Peter here is Richard's email of 2010-01-03 --

Are the TMW 201 "50 ton Dalman 2-level trucks" suitable for this
car as modelled by the Westerfield kit?
Steve, the Santa Fe Dalman trucks had Barber Lateral Motion devices,
so what you need are the TMW #202 trucks. Actually, the Bx-11s had
Dalman 2-level trucks, for which the TMW HO scale trucks are dead
on. The Bx-12s, built a year later, had Dalman 1-level trucks, which
were made only briefly ca. 1930-'32, and have never been modeled in
HO. However, the TMW #202s are quite close - as close as you're
going to get.

Richard Hendrickson


Dalman 1 level trucks

peteraue
 

What is the best stand-in for HO scale Dalman-1 level trucks. I know some time ago Richard responded to the same question but unfortuntely I cannot find that post.

Peter Aue


Re: Responding personally to a post

rob.mclear3@...
 

Bob
I seem to able to reply off list but I don't get any individual emails and troll the list on the webpage only.  When you hit reply the Subject line will come up.   Then hit the double arrow to the left of it, a "To" line will come up and there is a small arrow in it on the right hit that and a number of addresses come up I then just change the address to the one without the group name in it, there are usually four and the individual name address is usually, but not always, the second address.   That should get you to the individual and not the group.

Rob McLear
Australia.


Richard's Hendrickson's Celebration of Life

Mikebrock
 

Guys,

Today I received a note from Sandra Hendrickson in which she asked me to express to the STMFC her thanks for the many kind words about Richard from members of the STMFC. She also described Richard's Celebration of Life which occurred on August 16. I think the best way to pass on Sandra's thanks is to simply include her message to me:

"Richard's Celebration of Life was held on Saturday, August 16th, at our Ashland Community Center (the same place I rented to celebrate his 80th birthday!) There were an extraordinary number of people there who gathered to share stories, adventures, memories and to connect with each other to give some closure to Richard's passing. Tony Thompson gave a wonderful, abbreviated version of his Memorial blog. Greg Martin, from Salem, OR was there too. As were my chosen Ashland "family", my siblings, and Richard's children and ex-wife (who is also my friend). There is no way to relate to you the feelings that circulated in that Community Center. They were powerful, and often joyful. I wanted to write to you again, to ask you to relay my gratitude to all those members of the STMFC who sent wonderful, sharing E-mails and stories about their relationships with Richard. I treasure those notes.
Thank you,
Sandra"

She also mentioned in another message about STMFC members..."I hope that if any of them have occasion to come to southern Oregon, they'll stop by for a visit".

Mike Brock

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