Date   

Re: Virginian Hopper Decals

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

You might also want to check out Great Decals at www.greatdecals.com for
VGN hopper cars. He lists two sets, the VGN H8A Composite Hopper and H6
2-bay hopper.
Problem is that the H6 doesn't have the right data for the H8, and the
H8A revived the old wood-car lettering style with the larger 'V' in the
roadname.

David Thompson


Re: Virginian Hopper Decals

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

H8A composite?? According to my notes 15000-15999 were H8A's. Does that
mean they were War Emergency cars? Why give them an "A" designation since
they are so different from the all steel 7-rib H8 hoppers?
H8A was in fact a composite version of the H8, but built to VGN's own
design at Princeton in 1944. Think of it as the VGN equivalent to the
Pennsy H31b.

David Thompson, Bob's Photos has a pic of one with steel patch plates over
the wood siding...


Sunshine Mather & MDT/NRC reefer kits

sctry <jgreedy@...>
 

I see that Sunshine has discontinued the Mather 42 ft reefers. I
decided I had better assemble my kit #15.3 - Armour. The kit
instructions also contain some prototype data but not the seperate
PDS that are in current kits. If there is a PDS can someone please
scan a copy for me?

Second question. What are the differences in the Sunshine MDT/NRC
kits #20.1, 20.2, 20.3 and 20.4 other than the included decals?

John Greedy


Re: Running Boards

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

At 08:47 PM 11/6/2002, you wrote:
Tony:

In the following snip, you mentioned modeling the side verticals. I am
curious as how this could be done?
Umm, glue them on the underside of the etched running
board?

Plano makes a set of etched parts for the Red Caboose
tank car, but did not bother to represent the deeper
side supports for tank cars. It would have been easy
to do as a 90 degree bend and quite strong...

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: BLT udec

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Bill,
Thanks for covering ALL the paint schemes for the model! Of your suggestions I refuse to model the UP, the BAR car has a different door, I have a lot of NP cars and one of your NP decorated cars to build . I might try the ATSF "Ship and Travel". Any idea of the number series?
We BLT be represented at Trainfest in Milwaukee this weekend?
Thanks to all,
Clark

Bill Schneider wrote:

Clark,

I've been following this with some interest, if for no other reason than to see what other people come up with!

We did do the ATSF class Bx-44 cars in the map scheme with four numbers with four slogans. We also did the CB&Q in the delivery (Zephyrs) scheme and the Wabash. We also did some very nice PRR cars - just don't ask Greg about the roof color (INCOMING!!!......)

My votes FWIW would be: UP - all yellow lettering, BAR - "State of Maine" (1954 - 8' door, Dartnot ends), NP - "Mainstreet of the NW" red or green version (1954), Santa Fe "Ship and Travel" (post 1947). I make no guarantees that we won't do these schemes in the future, but you should have enough time to paint and decal yours before we ship the factory version! (just kidding...)

BTW, Branchline has also done/is doing custom versions of these 40' boxcars for the GM&O, NKP and MP historical societies. These cars are either unique graphics or at least different car numbers from those in our line. They are available through these societies only, generally to their members first and then to the public, but check them out.

Bill Schneider
Greg,
I have built the BLT Q car. Do they offer a ATSF car? If so is there a different paint scheme that one could be painted for the 53-54 time period?
As Chet mentioned the M&StL did a lot of interchange with the Wabash at Albia IA. They also exchanged lots of cars with the Santa Fe at Nemo IL.
Is there a Wabash match for the BLT car? Or do they already make one?
Clark

tgregmrtn@... wrote:

> Clark,
>
> If you have a 40-foot car with 6-footdoors why no a Q car? I find them in most ever Pennsy train I see photos of but what era are we talking? Or how about a Santa Fe Car? I think you need plenty of these in the mid-West.
>
> Greg Martin
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
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Re: Virginian Hopper Decals

James F. Brewer <brewcrew@...>
 

Tim,

I don't know! Just copied the info from a sales sheet I had on hand!

Jim Brewer
Glenwood, Maryland

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Virginian Hopper Decals



>
>You might also want to check out Great Decals at www.greatdecals.com
>for VGN hopper cars. He lists two sets, the VGN H8A Composite Hopper
>and H6 2-bay hopper.


H8A composite?? According to my notes 15000-15999 were
H8A's. Does that mean they were War Emergency cars? Why
give them an "A" designation since they are so different
from the all steel 7-rib H8 hoppers?


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts


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Re: OOOPPPSSSS! Re: Athearn hopper

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Sorry for the misunderstanding Greg, I will letter the car VGN, but have
pictures of the cars in the RI book and on a disc.
Thanks for your comments,
Clark

benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Greg Martin wrote:
So a few Rock Island cars in your mix might just be what you need and
find a good use for those Athearn cars."

Unfortunately in the case of the ex-VGN cars, not during the 1950s.
They didn't come to the Rock Island until 1964-1966:

RI 88650-88699
RI 89750-89849
RI 10700-10999

Ben Hom


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Re: have you seen these books?

Rich Ramik <rjramik@...>
 

Gene:

You stated that color is a rare commodity prior to 1960 and I completely
agree. However, since color is not available, couldn't the color that is
available (at whatever level of color accuracy) be augmented with B&W? As a
hobbyist, I would appreciate ANY photos rather than none! I know someone in
the "book business." According to him using current technology that the cost
of printing color versus B&W is about the same: true or not?

Thanks,
Rich Ramik

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Green [mailto:willibecher@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:23 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: have you seen these books?


Ben Hom has it right. As author of 3 "In Color" books I can tell you
that it is really hard to find decent coverage before 1960. Nobody
wants the early color more than the authors and the publisher but,
when we can't find it, what can we do? Worse than that, in some
areas photographers stuck with black and white until much later. I
found virtually nothing in South Dakota in color for the M&StL book,
for example.

I've said it before and I'll say it again here. If you are using any
color print film or any slide film other than Kodachrome, you are
slipping your wheels. I've looked at a lot of color slides from the
very late 1940s and 1950s. Kodachrome color is as good, or very
nearly as good, as when originally processed. Anscochrome,
Agfachrome, Ektachrome and later Fujichrome all fade with time.
Color print film is even worse. If you think you are photographing
for the ages - and you are - use Kodachrome, please. Fifty years
from now some author will be so delighted to include your work in his
book.

Gene Green


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Re: Running Boards

Rich Ramik <rjramik@...>
 

Tony:

In the following snip, you mentioned modeling the side verticals. I am
curious as how this could be done?

Thanks,
Rich Ramik
Tony Thompson Wrote >>>>>>

Tank car running boards, spanning much larger distances between
supports,
had considerably deeper side vertical bars--from two to three and a half
inches deep. These are certainly not modeled well with etched metal UNLESS
you add the side verticals, which you can easily do.


Re: Prototype of Central Valley stock car??

Ray Breyer <rbreyer@...>
 

Hay regularly moves long distances (by truck these days), but it's usually
in the opposite direction. Hay gets moved every year from the Midwest to
the West, usually due to poor growing conditions and drought. In the 25
years experience I've had raising stock (horses and cattle) I've never heard
of someone buying hay from the West to import East.

Ray Breyer

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson [mailto:rhendrickson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 1:20 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Prototype of Central Valley stock car??


Greg Martin writes:

I once was told by an old timer who spent his youth in Bakersfield , CA
that during WWII that the Santa Fe loaded Alphalfa Hay into stock cars. He
claims he ask the folks loading the cars where the loads were headed and
the reply was to the stock pens in the east and the east coast to help
feed the cattel in places like Pittsburgh to fatten the stock before going
to slaughter. I realize that Pittsburgh had large stock pens but...?
Perhaps Richard can verify this? I have heard this more than once and
never could verify it. Seems that it would be a long haul to me, but...?
Seems like a long haul to me, too, Greg. Shipping hay in stock cars
certainly wasn't unusual, but there must have been sources for hay that
were much closer to Pittsburgh than Bakersfield. My guess is that the hay
in question was en route to west coast stock yards like the big ones in Los
Angeles. FWIW, I have a photo of a Santa Fe 50' auto box having hay
unloaded from it at Kansas City during WW II. But I'll bet that hay didn't
come all the way from Calif.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: 1923 ARA Design

tim gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

tcschc wrote:


--- In STMFC@y..., Guycwilber@a... wrote:
In either case, what sources might one access to read further?
Guy:

What Chris sent to me regarding resources is copied below. I intend
to
research this further and will be happy to share my findings,
especially where
one might find the ARA Div. V Proceedings and what I uncover in them
(if
anything)..

From Chris:
" I assume that you are referring to the all-steel
design. Unfortunately, I don't think any of the original
correspondence has
been saved. There was a summary published in the Railway Age report
of
the summer meeting of the ARA Division V in 1923 held in Atlantic
City as I
recall. More detail of that meeting can be found in the ARA Div. V
Proceedings which are available in a few libraries. There was also a
paragraph in the ARA Board of Directors meeting report, I think in
1924. A
key missing piece of info is the "minority report" apparently provided
to the
ARA Board after the design was approved by Div V. I doubt that was
ever
published, but presumably, therein lies the story of why the ARA Board
did
not approve the design, despite the Div. V letter ballot in favor of
it in
late 1923.

The AAR does not have any of this stuff anymore so don't bother asking

them."

Regards,
Ted Culotta

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Re: Virginian Hopper Decals

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 


You might also want to check out Great Decals at www.greatdecals.com
for VGN hopper cars. He lists two sets, the VGN H8A Composite Hopper
and H6 2-bay hopper.

H8A composite?? According to my notes 15000-15999 were
H8A's. Does that mean they were War Emergency cars? Why
give them an "A" designation since they are so different
from the all steel 7-rib H8 hoppers?


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Prototype of Central Valley stock car??

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Seems like a long haul to me, too, Greg. Shipping hay in stock cars
certainly wasn't unusual, but there must have been sources for hay that
were much closer to Pittsburgh than Bakersfield.
There have been cases of shortages in one part of the country
requiring moving hay long distances to another part... Usually
involving a backhaul of otherwise empty cars, but not always.
UP made some "hay" a year or two ago by donating the movement
of dried grass to drought stricken parts of Texas.

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: 1923 ARA Design

CBarkan@...
 

My responses are below. I researched all this pretty extensively when I was
at AAR and had access to their library (now largely defunct I'm afraid).

In a message dated 11/6/02 4:09:50 PM, Guycwilber@... writes:

<<Finally had a chance to download, print and read Ted Culotta's Naperville
hand out covering the ARA 1923 car and similar designs. Thanks Ted, this is
neatly done.

In the past it has been argued that the Pennsylvania was disgusted with the
ARA Car Construction Committee regarding the design of this first steel car.
I believe the phrase used was; "They left the meeting in a snit." Is this
correct with regard to the 1923 design, or were these disagreements prior to
that design? In either case, what sources might one access to read further?>>

Who argued that? W.F. Kiesel, Jr. was the chairman of the committee that
designed the car and he was a Mechanical Engineer with the PRR.

<<Also, for Chris Barkan; what "board" is it that you refer to when
referencing
the report on the design? By 1923 the Car Construction Committee was one
faction of the Mechanical Division of the ARA and their
reports/recommendations were submitted to member roads (via letter ballot)
for approval were they not? >>

Yes, and after failing to gain approval of the full committee at the summer
meeting of Div. V in 1923, the subcommittee went back and made a few minor
changes and it was submitted for letter ballot and approved late in the year.
However, to gain official industry adoption it had to be approved by the ARA
Board of Directors (railroad presidents). Due to a minority report (from
three individuals) and unsuccesful attempts to reconcile the differences
between the majority and the minority, the Board did not approve the
all-steel car in late 1924 (they did approve the single-sheathed car). I
have wanted to find a copy of the "minority report" but have never succeeded;
however, there are other records that indicate that the disagreement was in
regard to the conflict between maintaining a standard inside width of 8'6"
and a standard-sized roof for use on single and double sheathed cars, and the
refridgerator car. The problem was that standardizing roof width was going
to require the steel car to be narrower than it otherwise could be, and some
objected to compromising its cubic capacity. The Board side-stepped the
issue of a decision by recommending that the steel car design be "tested".
And so the B&O and the PRR conducted a "test" involving 50,000 cars over the
next few years!

Chris


Re: WWII hay and livestock movements?

armprem
 

The Rutland frequently used stock cars to carry hay.The hay was generally
carried to southern New England when ever there was a poor hay crop.The
Rutland also used their stock cars to carry cedar posts for company
purposes.A

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Wyatt" <cjwyatt@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 6:28 PM
Subject: [STMFC] WWII hay and livestock movements?


Greg Martin writes:

I once was told by an old timer who spent his youth in Bakersfield , CA
that during WWII that the Santa Fe loaded Alphalfa Hay into stock cars.
He
claims he ask the folks loading the cars where the loads were headed and
the reply was to the stock pens in the east and the east coast to help
feed the cattel in places like Pittsburgh to fatten the stock before
going
to slaughter. I realize that Pittsburgh had large stock pens but...?
Perhaps Richard can verify this? I have heard this more than once and
never could verify it. Seems that it would be a long haul to me, but...?
Richard Hendrickson responds:

Seems like a long haul to me, too, Greg. Shipping hay in stock cars
certainly wasn't unusual, but there must have been sources for hay that
were much closer to Pittsburgh than Bakersfield. My guess is that the
hay
in question was en route to west coast stock yards like the big ones in
Los
Angeles. FWIW, I have a photo of a Santa Fe 50' auto box having hay
unloaded from it at Kansas City during WW II. But I'll bet that hay
didn't
come all the way from Calif.
Could there have been an attempt during WWII to load cars otherwise
returning empty with hay, in order to fatten livestock at places closer to
where the meat would have been consumned (or shipped abroad). I've been
curious about whether there could have been any restrictions on livestock
movement during the war, since they required so much special handling. In
the past I have presented some examples of western stock cars moving into
Georgia in the late forties. I'm assuming that they carried "prime" meat,
while the locally supplied would be "choice" or lesser quality. During
WWII,
would the War Production board, or other authority have said, "sorry, no
long hauls for livestock - you can get by without "prime" beef"?

Jack Wyatt





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WWII hay and livestock movements?

C J Wyatt
 

Greg Martin writes:

I once was told by an old timer who spent his youth in Bakersfield , CA
that during WWII that the Santa Fe loaded Alphalfa Hay into stock cars. He
claims he ask the folks loading the cars where the loads were headed and
the reply was to the stock pens in the east and the east coast to help
feed the cattel in places like Pittsburgh to fatten the stock before going
to slaughter. I realize that Pittsburgh had large stock pens but...?
Perhaps Richard can verify this? I have heard this more than once and
never could verify it. Seems that it would be a long haul to me, but...?
Richard Hendrickson responds:

Seems like a long haul to me, too, Greg. Shipping hay in stock cars
certainly wasn't unusual, but there must have been sources for hay that
were much closer to Pittsburgh than Bakersfield. My guess is that the hay
in question was en route to west coast stock yards like the big ones in Los
Angeles. FWIW, I have a photo of a Santa Fe 50' auto box having hay
unloaded from it at Kansas City during WW II. But I'll bet that hay didn't
come all the way from Calif.
Could there have been an attempt during WWII to load cars otherwise
returning empty with hay, in order to fatten livestock at places closer to
where the meat would have been consumned (or shipped abroad). I've been
curious about whether there could have been any restrictions on livestock
movement during the war, since they required so much special handling. In
the past I have presented some examples of western stock cars moving into
Georgia in the late forties. I'm assuming that they carried "prime" meat,
while the locally supplied would be "choice" or lesser quality. During WWII,
would the War Production board, or other authority have said, "sorry, no
long hauls for livestock - you can get by without "prime" beef"?

Jack Wyatt


Re: Virginian Hopper Decals

James F. Brewer <brewcrew@...>
 

All,

You might also want to check out Great Decals at www.greatdecals.com for VGN hopper cars. He lists two sets, the VGN H8A Composite Hopper and H6 2-bay hopper.

I have never used any of his decals; only know that they exist. Hope this helps.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood, Maryland


Re: 1923 ARA Design

tcschc <tculotta@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., Guycwilber@a... wrote:
> In either case, what sources might one access to read further?

Guy:

What Chris sent to me regarding resources is copied below. I intend to
research this further and will be happy to share my findings, especially where
one might find the ARA Div. V Proceedings and what I uncover in them (if
anything)..

From Chris:
" I assume that you are referring to the all-steel
design. Unfortunately, I don't think any of the original correspondence has
been saved. There was a summary published in the Railway Age report of
the summer meeting of the ARA Division V in 1923 held in Atlantic City as I
recall. More detail of that meeting can be found in the ARA Div. V
Proceedings which are available in a few libraries. There was also a
paragraph in the ARA Board of Directors meeting report, I think in 1924. A
key missing piece of info is the "minority report" apparently provided to the
ARA Board after the design was approved by Div V. I doubt that was ever
published, but presumably, therein lies the story of why the ARA Board did
not approve the design, despite the Div. V letter ballot in favor of it in
late 1923.

The AAR does not have any of this stuff anymore so don't bother asking
them."


Regards,
Ted Culotta


Re: Prototype of Central Valley stock car??

tim gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

tgregmrtn@... wrote:
Richard is correct I have seen photos of the NP car in service on the
Pennsy on the St Louis line headed towards Pittsburgh behind F-units
and that is just why I bought mine.

I once was told by an old timer who spent his youth in Bakersfield ,
CA that during WWII that the Santa Fe loaded Alphalfa Hay into stock
cars. He claims he ask the folks loading the cars where the loads were
headed and the reply was to the stock pens in the east and the east
coast to help feed the cattel in places like Pittsburgh to fatten the
stock before going to slaughter. I realize that Pittsburgh had large
stock pens but...? Perhaps Richard can verify this? I have heard this
more than once and never could verify it. Seems that it would be a
long haul to me, but...?
At some point, one of the largest feed lots in the country was in
Lancaster PA.

Tim Gilbert


OOOPPPSSSS! Re: Athearn hopper

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Greg Martin wrote:
So a few Rock Island cars in your mix might just be what you need and
find a good use for those Athearn cars."


Unfortunately in the case of the ex-VGN cars, not during the 1950s.
They didn't come to the Rock Island until 1964-1966:

RI 88650-88699
RI 89750-89849
RI 10700-10999


Ben Hom

184301 - 184320 of 197103