Date   

Re: Construction Lines

Tim O'Connor
 

I might simply use a piece of low-tack, sharp edged tape to mark the location
of the rivet lines. But I like Paul's idea of a sharp scalpel blade too.

Tim O'Connor

How should I mark construction lines on the car so I can lay out the panel lines and rivets where they're supposed to be?

Arved Grass


Even Colored Car Roofs

Rod Miller
 

Clear color photo:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=504225&nseq=165

Nary a blotched roof in sight.
--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives, | O Scale West / S West
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More | 2015 Meet is Feb 5 - 7
http://www.rodmiller.com | http://www.oscalewest.com


web address describing the RCW tank car kits?

ed_mines
 

.......and a gold star (or box of stars) for all those Pittsburgh freight car photos.


Can any one think of good photos of P&LE 46' gons with widened sides like the one in one of the Pittsburgh photos? (these cars were rebuilt from composite gons like the one in the photo). The only other photo of these cars I recall is in the NMRA book.


Ed Mines


Re: Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car

Tim O'Connor
 

Michael

I don't know about the midwest, but sulfuric acid is sprayed directly
onto potato fields in some places -- It toughens and thickens their skins.

Tim O'Connor

Unless you are running a granger branch line, I can hardly think of
where one of these cars wouldn't be useful.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT


Re: box cars in the strip district PRR Jan 1938 (UNCLASSIFIED)

Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks Elden for the links -- hi-res links:

Box cars and reefers at the same industry.
http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/getimage-idx?cc=hpicasc;entryid=x-715.3837192.cp;viewid=3837192CP.TIF;x=0;y=0;width=3000;height=2222;res=0;view=image

Love that CG ventilator box
http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/getimage-idx?cc=hpicasc;entryid=x-715.3837178.cp;viewid=3837178CP.TIF;x=0;y=0;width=3000;height=2231;res=0;view=image

Tim O'Connor

http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?rgn1=hpicasc_ci;med=1;q1=AIS.1971.05;size=20;c=hpicasc;back=back1415978611;subview=detail;resnum=13559;view=entry;lastview=thumbnail;cc=hpicasc;entryid=x-715.3837178.cp;viewid=3837178CP.TIF
> http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?rgn1=hpicasc_ci;med=1;q1=AIS.1971.05;size=20;c=hpicasc;back=back1415978611;subview=detail;resnum=13560;view=entry;lastview=thumbnail;cc=hpicasc;entryid=x-715.3837192.cp;viewid=3837192CP.TIF
> Elden Gatwood


Re: Construction Lines

arved_grass
 

Thanks.

That's about where I'm at. I need to apply end details and roof walks (with supports). Still trying to decide if I want to apply grabs and ladders before or after the paint goes on. Everything black except car sides BCR - may be easier to mask with the grabs and ladders applied after painting. I usually don't, but I usually don't have separation lines like this. Well, except PFE reefers... But my painting technique could stand improvement there, as well. Masking off ladders isn't particularly fun. Especially when the rungs have been replaced with 0.010" styrene.

I need to think about the order of painting and detailing at this point.

Solvaset? Really? The decal film seems to be a lot like Microscale's, which in my experience, aren't up to Sovaset. Solvaset may be good for Champ and Walther's decals, but not Microscale and other thin film decals. Perhaps if it's thinned.

I had no problem with just Micro-Sol and Micro-Set on my (PFE) R-40-25 - the first and only other time I've used Archer Transfers.

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@yahoo.com or Arved@I-Do-Photography.com
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 11/14/14, abrown@fit.edu [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [STMFC] Re: Construction Lines
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 14, 2014, 2:01 PM

I've used a pencil, and the Archers
adhered fine. I treat the Archers the way I'd treat
"regular" decals: apply them, then Solvaset twice,
then gloss cote, then dull cote, then paint. Applying
Archers is the last thing I do before
painting. Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.










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Re: Clinchfield hopper deep in ATSF territory

Tim O'Connor
 

I have a scan of M184 near O'Brian Texas in 1959.

Tim O'

I can't pin down the location, but can eliminate most as the faint skyline to the right of the freight house limits possible locations to major cities such as Chicago, Denver, Kansas City, LA, Oakland, San Francisco, etc. 2discs number on the raised roof Bx-11/12 dates it to post Jan 45. M184 suggests mid west but I don't have access to my div assignments at the moment. It does eliminate SF and Oakland though.

John Barry


Tangent and RCW tanks compared

Tom Madden
 

It's telling that Frank's reaction to the Tangent announcement was enthusiastic. Two quotes from his email of last Friday:


"WOW have you seen the new Tangent 8K GATX acid cars."

               and

" Boy do we have the kit-bashing possibilities here!"


These are very compatible products, with both kit-bashing and kit-mingling possibilities. The 8K Tangent isn't in hand to permit comparisons, but these photos show the possibilities with the Tangent 6K tank. (Note - there is some perspective distortion in the photos. The tanks are all the same diameter, and the 8K RCW tank and frame are 4 scale feet longer than the 7K.)


Photos comparing RCW 7 & 8K tanks with the Tangent 6K:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/RCW1.jpg


http://www.pullmanproject.com/RCW2.jpg


The RCW 7K and Tangent 6K are the same length and diameter, the difference in capacity due to the lost volume between the pairs of bulkheads separating the internal compartments in the 6K.


Here is an assortment of frames:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/RCW3.jpg

 

The RCW frames are cast in two-part molds with detail top and bottom. Marty commented on the minimal amount of flash - the two in the photo are random ones I grabbed off the pile, and the flash is typical. The stretched Tangent frame is a replacement for the Sunshine part, but requires two complete Tangent 6K frames plus some other parts. Whether the new Tangent 8K frame can be backdated with Archer rivets to be a better choice remains to be seen. (I have two Tangent undec 8K kits on order.)


So we're going to have both ACF and GATC underframes available, each in two lengths. This is about when Richard would jump in and comment on how much tank swapping took place, and when, The 7K RCW tank will certainly fit on the Tangent 6K frame, and the 6K Tangent tank on the RCW frame. At this point my knowledge of the prototype runs out.


Tom Madden




Re: Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car

Cyril Durrenberger
 

You can learn about making sulfuric acid from
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/chief/ap42/ch08/final/c08s10.pdf
A quote from this is “Almost 70 percent of sulfuric acid manufactured is used in the production
of phosphate fertilizers. Other uses include copper leaching, inorganic pigment production, petroleum
refining, paper production, and industrial organic chemical production.”

I think the El Paso smelter began making sulfuric acid when they were required by the Texas Air Control Board (Texas air pollution control agency) to reduce their SO2 emissions in the 1970's.  The process they selected to remove the SO2 created an industrial grade sulfuric acid that they sold, but the amount received for the acid did not pay for the cost of making it.  I was on the crew that did the stack sampling of the plant that lead to the requirements to the reduction. 

It is not clear to me what, if any smelters made sulfuric acid from their SO2 emissions during the time period of this list.

Sulfuric Acid has been used for many years, perhaps over a hundred, to remove sulfur from gasoline.  So refineries used it.  In many cases the spent sulfuric acid was then recycled in an acid plant to make the acid that was used in this process.  Making the sulfuric acid often required burning sulfur containing compounds to produce SO2 which was oxidized and then combined with water to make the sulfuric acid.  It was then concentrated.  There was a large sulfuric acid plant at what is now the Exxon Baytown refinery.  Most if not all of the acid was used at the refinery. 

At one time elemental sulfur was "mined" along the Gulf Coast and other areas.  One of the uses for it was to make sulfuric acid.  The mining stopped as more and more of the refineries and natural gas processing plants were required to treat the H2S at a sulfur recovery plant rather than burning it in a flare and emitting it to the atmosphere.  The H2S is removed and converted to elemental sulfur. 

Cyril Durrenberger, P. E.
Senior Lecturer in Chemical Engineering
Research Scientist Center for Energy and Environmental Resources
The University of Texas at Austin


--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 11/14/14, asychis@aol.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 14, 2014, 11:31 AM














 

 



   


     
       
       
       


Sulfuric acid, a by-product of copper smelting at
Asarco in El Paso, Texas,
was shipped to Minnesota for spraying on potato fields right
before harvest to
kill the vines. I'm told this facilitated mechanical
harvesting and meant less
unwanted debris among the potatoes. My observation of this
practice occurred in
the 1980s and 1990s. What I would really like to know is
when such a practice
began and if it goes back to 1950. Since I am modeling the
upper Midwest in 1950
such shipments might fit my scheme.

Gene Green

 
Gene,
 
this practice on many vine-type crops goes back beyond
the 1950s.  It
was (and still is) a cheap and effective way to defoliate
plants. This was
before other compounds, such as DEF, were available,
but are typically more
expensive.  The main restrictions to using sulfuric
acid on potatoes these
days is availability and safety concerns if you aren't
rigged up to do it. 
In fact, we just sprayed a potato field with sulfuric acid
about a month
ago.
 
If Asarco in El Paso produced sulfuric acid, I'd
bet the plant in Amarillo
did/does the same.  Have to check that out.  As
far as uses, it is
probably easier to list industrial process that don't
use mineral acids in one
or more processes, than those that do use them.
 
Jerry Michels
(a research entomologist in another life)


Re: Construction Lines

al_brown03
 

I've used a pencil, and the Archers adhered fine. I treat the Archers the way I'd treat "regular" decals: apply them, then Solvaset twice, then gloss cote, then dull cote, then paint. Applying Archers is the last thing I do before painting.

 

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Intermountain AAR alt std 2-bay hopper kits

Andy Carlson
 

Hello-

I have 12 kits of Intermountain Railway's #42199 Alt Std AAR 2-bay undecorated hopper kits I wish to sell. Lots of parts including some optional pieces.

Offered at $20/each, plus $3.50 postage. I accept checks and money orders, and with a small fee, I also accept PayPal. contact me OFF-LIST, please, at
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: beautiful weirton steel hoppers 1922 (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Eric;

I am happy to see an in-use photo of them in that scheme...finally; and confirm they do look like H25 design

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 1:31 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [STMFC] beautiful weirton steel hoppers 1922 (UNCLASSIFIED)



Very nice! Apparently H25 design. Order was apparently placed with SSC by E.W. Mudge for 240 cars. The ORER suggests WSX 4100-4399 range. Built date (11-20), capacity (140000), weight (53500), and cu.ft. (2480) are all legible. Unfortunately, the plant is not. It might be Butler or New Castle. I'm real glad to get a built date for these.

Eric



----- Original Message -----
From: 'Gatwood, Elden SAW' elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil [STMFC] <mailto:elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil [STMFC]>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 12:15 PM
Subject: [STMFC] beautiful weirton steel hoppers 1922 (UNCLASSIFIED)



Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?rgn1=hpicasc_ci;med=1;q1=AIS.2009.07;size=20;c=hpicasc;back=back1415985003;subview=detail;resnum=179;view=entry;lastview=thumbnail;cc=hpicasc;entryid=x-200907.1922.02039;viewid=20121106-HPICASC-0148.TIF

Elden Gatwood

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Frank's acid tanks (Was: Tangent...)

riverman_vt@...
 

    And now for the $64 question, Marty. What lessee names are going to be offered that will be of most use to those of us like yourself who are modeling Northern New England in the late steam era?

 

Thanks, Don Valentine


Re: beautiful weirton steel hoppers 1922 (UNCLASSIFIED)

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

Very nice! Apparently H25 design. Order was apparently placed with SSC by E.W. Mudge for 240 cars. The ORER suggests WSX 4100-4399 range. Built date (11-20), capacity (140000), weight (53500), and cu.ft. (2480) are all legible. Unfortunately, the plant is not. It might be Butler or New Castle. I'm real glad to get a built date for these.
 
Eric
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 12:15 PM
Subject: [STMFC] beautiful weirton steel hoppers 1922 (UNCLASSIFIED)

 


Interesting PMcK&Y gon (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?rgn1=hpiccma_ci;med=1;q1=cma;size=20;c=hpiccma;back=back1415989417;subview=detail;resnum=482;view=entry;lastview=thumbnail;cc=hpiccma;entryid=x-84.41.97;viewid=1024810.TIF

circa 1938 Aliquippa PA

Elden Gatwood

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: [EXTERNAL] Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car (UNCLASSIF

jon miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 11/14/2014 7:10 AM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] wrote:
 era appropriateness of their model,    and I have no fear that Tangent took my comments the wrong way).
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al

    Heavily redacted above (grin).  I'm curious on how the decision is made, with regard to era.  Was the span of a welded car longer than a riveted car?  Were more made?  Did they think sales would be better?  Were more manufactures lettering/ color schemes available?
-- 

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Construction Lines

Tony Thompson
 

The car I started with was a 10-panel welded side car. The 1948 built PS-1s for Rock Island were 12 panel riveted side cars. I smoothed out the weld beads, and I have Archer Transfers for panel lines and rivets.

How should I mark construction lines on the car so I can lay out the panel lines and rivets where they're supposed to be?

     I have simply scribed a line to represent panel lines. Some panel edges were crimped to keep side sheets all in one plane, others were not. I am modifying a Branchline car to represent an SP auto car, and using the Archer double rivet rows (set AR88108) alongside the scribed lines. 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Construction Lines

arved_grass
 

Boy, I should learn to cut my posts better. Sorry!

It had occurred to me - that's why I said "My only other thought is to score the primer with the point of a knife/blade, but I'm not thrilled with that idea."

Failing any other ideas, or someone telling me I am overanalyzing things, that's my plan. In fact, I may just use the tips of the calipers I'll be using to lay out the dimensions.

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@yahoo.com or Arved@I-Do-Photography.com
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 11/14/14, 'paul.doggett2472' paul.doggett2472@yahoo.co.uk [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Arved have you tried a new scalpel blade used
lightly should do what you require.Paul Doggett
UK



Sent
from Samsung mobile
"Arved Grass arved_grass@yahoo.com [STMFC]"
<STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 






In between a lot of other projects (lately, mostly
learning Adobe Illustrator so I can produce my own decals
for Southern Pacific GS gondolas), I finally got around to
spraying Mr. Base White 1000 as a primer on my 40' Rock
Island PS-1 box car last night. For the record, thinned
50/50 with MEK, I think the MEK was a bit too
"hot" resulting in a very rough and grainy finish.
I loaded up the airbrush with clean lacquer thinner to try
to reflow the primer and get a smoother finish. Long story
short, I think I was successful.



The car I started with was a 10-panel welded side car. The
1948 built PS-1s for Rock Island were 12 panel riveted side
cars. I smoothed out the weld beads, and I have Archer
Transfers for panel lines and rivets.



How should I mark construction lines on the car so I can lay
out the panel lines and rivets where they're supposed
to be?



Pencil was my first thought, but I'm worried about
adhesion of the Archer Transfers over the graphite. Has that
been a problem with anyone else who's drawn construction
lines with pencil? If so, what alternatives do I have? My
only other thought is to score the primer with the point of
a knife/blade, but I'm not thrilled with that idea. An
ultra-fine tip Sharpie doesn't seem fine enough - even
if I sharpen the tip further, the ink tends to bleed.



So (the point of this post is) I am open to ideas.



Arved Grass

Arved_Grass@yahoo.com or Arved@I-Do-Photography.com

Fleming Island, Florida


Re: Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car (UNCLASSIFIED)

John F. Cizmar
 

 
If Swift shipped the acid, which of these tanks cars would be the best candidate to model the outbound shipments?
John Cizmar
 
let me correct my earlier question.
 
If Swift were to ship the acid from their Calumet City, Il plant, which of the modeled paint schemes would be the most likely candidate?

From: "jeralbin@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car (UNCLASSIFIED)

 
To follow up on Gary’s question: where was acid produced? 

 The Swift fertilizer plant in Calumet City, IL made sulfuric acid. The Pennsylvania Salt Mfg. Co. made hydrochloric acid and ferric chloride in Wyandotte MI, Natrona, PA and Tacoma, WA. They both shipped by tank car. Regards...Jerry Albin



Re: Construction Lines

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Arved have you tried a new scalpel blade used lightly should do what you require.
Paul Doggett UK




Sent from Samsung mobile

"Arved Grass arved_grass@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

In between a lot of other projects (lately, mostly learning Adobe Illustrator so I can produce my own decals for Southern Pacific GS gondolas), I finally got around to spraying Mr. Base White 1000 as a primer on my 40' Rock Island PS-1 box car last night. For the record, thinned 50/50 with MEK, I think the MEK was a bit too "hot" resulting in a very rough and grainy finish. I loaded up the airbrush with clean lacquer thinner to try to reflow the primer and get a smoother finish. Long story short, I think I was successful.

The car I started with was a 10-panel welded side car. The 1948 built PS-1s for Rock Island were 12 panel riveted side cars. I smoothed out the weld beads, and I have Archer Transfers for panel lines and rivets.

How should I mark construction lines on the car so I can lay out the panel lines and rivets where they're supposed to be?

Pencil was my first thought, but I'm worried about adhesion of the Archer Transfers over the graphite. Has that been a problem with anyone else who's drawn construction lines with pencil? If so, what alternatives do I have? My only other thought is to score the primer with the point of a knife/blade, but I'm not thrilled with that idea. An ultra-fine tip Sharpie doesn't seem fine enough - even if I sharpen the tip further, the ink tends to bleed.

So (the point of this post is) I am open to ideas.

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@... or Arved@...
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 11/14/14, 'John F. Cizmar' jfcizmar1966@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car (UNCLASSIFIED)
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Date: Friday, November 14, 2014, 10:03 AM


 









If Swift shipped the acid,
which of these tanks cars would be the best candidate to
model the outbound shipments?John Cizmar
  
From:
"jeralbin@... [STMFC]"
<STMFC@...>
To:
STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday,
November 13, 2014 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC]
Tangent Scale Models Acid Tank Car (UNCLASSIFIED)


 









To
follow up on Gary’s question: where was acid
produced? 

 The Swift fertilizer plant in
Calumet City, IL made sulfuric acid. The Pennsylvania Salt
Mfg. Co. made hydrochloric acid and ferric chloride in
Wyandotte MI, Natrona, PA and Tacoma, WA. They both shipped
by tank car. Regards...Jerry Albin





















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