Date   

Re: we all know hoppers dont travel right? (UNCLASSIFIED)

markstation01 <markstation01@...>
 

At the risk of stirring the pot like I did the other day with my comment about a NYC boxcar on the Westside Lumber Company, I guess CB&Q & Illinois Central hoppers might be seen on either coast, but could one expect to see the smaller regional roads like the D & M Chicago Illinois Midland cars travel so far? Also would you expect to see Santa Fe Union Pacific or Western Pacific hopper cars on the East Coast and vice versa would you see Maine Central, New Haven and CNJ cars as far west as California or even in the Midwest?


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "caboose9792@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date:11/17/2014 7:35 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: we all know hoppers dont travel right? (UNCLASSIFIED)

 

I never said it was the same though I do agree. Heck I never said that it was coal ether. On the Providence District Kentucky division at one time they were loading #9 #12 and Baker coal, a small pocket met coal where they were expecting to hit #9 and screened to several sizes. Since this was a branch off a secondary main line, I believe the results will be interesting for the yard as I have the yard check book for the summer of 1947 I'm looking to enter the data into an SQL database over the winter so the data is serchable.
 
Mark Rickert
 
In a message dated 11/15/2014 5:13:03 P.M. Central Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
Not weird at all. Remember, coal isn't all equal - the odd anthracite road car popping up off line isn't unusual at all as the anthracite retail market would send small loads much farther than you'd think.

Ben Hom


Re: we all know hoppers dont travel right? (UNCLASSIFIED)

caboose9792@...
 

I never said it was the same though I do agree. Heck I never said that it was coal ether. On the Providence District Kentucky division at one time they were loading #9 #12 and Baker coal, a small pocket met coal where they were expecting to hit #9 and screened to several sizes. Since this was a branch off a secondary main line, I believe the results will be interesting for the yard as I have the yard check book for the summer of 1947 I'm looking to enter the data into an SQL database over the winter so the data is serchable.
 
Mark Rickert
 

In a message dated 11/15/2014 5:13:03 P.M. Central Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
Not weird at all. Remember, coal isn't all equal - the odd anthracite road car popping up off line isn't unusual at all as the anthracite retail market would send small loads much farther than you'd think.

Ben Hom


Re: RPM etc Display Table Height?

Richard Townsend
 

I've seen it done with short lengths of PVC pipe from the hardware store. Just be sure to get a big enough inside diameter pipe. It's a cheap and easy solution. There can be stability issues, however.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: tyrone.johnsen@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Nov 17, 2014 3:33 pm
Subject: [STMFC] RPM etc Display Table Height?

 
Can someone help me with information or a source of the method of extending the height of the display tables, e.g. at Naperville/Lisle RPM/Sunshine please?
I think I remember an article on use of plastic tubes to extend the table height, but I certainly do not remember where I found it. I want it to incorporate at our local NMRA Division meets.
Thank you,
Tyrone Johnsen
Rockford, IL
tyroneDOTjohnsenAThotmailDOTcom


RPM etc Display Table Height?

aaejj2j
 

Can someone help me with information or a source of the method of extending the height of the display tables, e.g. at Naperville/Lisle RPM/Sunshine please?
I think I remember an article on use of plastic tubes to extend the table height, but I certainly do not remember where I found it. I want it to incorporate at our local NMRA Division meets.
Thank you,
Tyrone Johnsen
Rockford, IL
tyroneDOTjohnsenAThotmailDOTcom



Re: B&O Yard

Charles Peck
 

Looks like the RIP track to me. I imagine cars with lots of missing pieces show up there.
Chuck Peck

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 6:22 PM, 'gary laakso' vasa0vasa@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

This picture was posted on the Yahoo B&O board this morning:
 
 
There was no date identified.  One wagon top was weathered so well, it lost its door!
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock



B&O Yard

gary laakso
 

This picture was posted on the Yahoo B&O board this morning:
 
 
There was no date identified.  One wagon top was weathered so well, it lost its door!
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock


Re: Southern Pacific weigh station initials

arved_grass
 

That file is buried in the list of files! But I found it, and sorted it.

Paul was actually doing some legwork for me. I thought I knew all the California weigh stations on the SP, but the list provided some I didn't know. TY = Tracy? I was scratching my head, thinking it might be Tyler, Texas or something like that.

Filtered list of non-California SP shops are:

AB SP Albany OR
AD SP Ashland OR
BKN SP Brooklyn Yard OR Portland
DO SP Douglas AZ
EGN SP Eugene OR
ELP SP El Paso TX
ELPG SP El Paso General Shops TX
GLO SP Globe AZ
HCJT SP Hayden Jct. AZ
KF SP Klamath Falls OR
LDS SP Lordsburg NM
MFD SP Marshfield OR
OG SP Ogden UT
PHN SP Phoenix AZ
RBG SP Roseburg OR
RO SP Reno NV
SLM SP Salem OR
SPG SP Springfield OR
SPK SP Sparks NV
T SP Tucumcari NM
TUC SP Tucson AZ
Y SP Yuma AZ

I find it interesting that Reno and Sparks had separate weigh stations.

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@yahoo.com or Arved@I-Do-Photography.com
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 11/17/14, Garth Groff sarahsan@embarqmail.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Southern Pacific weigh station initials
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 17, 2014, 4:01 PM


Re: we all know hoppers dont travel right?

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Ed 
    The gon was in a freight hauled by SP&S challenger in the 
fifties.
Paul


Sent from Samsung mobile

"Edwardsutorik@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

The SP&S bought 67 GS gons from D&RGW in 1964-1965.  Perhaps the video shows one being delivered.  Or perhaps they were operated for awhile with D&RGW markings intact.




Ed

Edward Sutorik


gondola load of cast iron shapes - looking for paint recommendation

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,

I have some plastic shapes I would like to paint up to simulate a gondola load of cast iron shapes.

Any suggestions regarding good colors to choose? I was thinking I might go with Floquil Weathered Black (which is a very dark grey with a hint of a slight bluish slant) and then dry-brushed with Floquil Rust.

Anyone care to make other suggestions or share their experience on this topic? While I have and like FLoquil paints, I am open to other paint types...

- Claus Schlund


Re: Southern Pacific weigh station initials

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

hi Garth 
               Have been into the STMFC files and found them thank you.
Paul




Sent from Samsung mobile

"Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Paul,

Now long gone from the market, Champ decals offered various weigh station decals for several regions. The Western set (HD-52) listed the following for the SP: BKN (Brooklyn, OR), FRN (Fresno), LA (obvious), OAK (Oakland), SAC (Sacramento) and SF (likely San Francisco). The T&NO was represented by ELP (El Paso) and HO (of which I'm not sure; Houston maybe?). I know you wanted out of California, but that's what Champ offered.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 11/17/14 7:55 AM, paul.doggett2472@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Hi Guys

 Can any one help with Southern Pacific weigh station initials particularly the ones outside of California.


Thank you Paul Doggett UK



Re: we all know hoppers dont travel right?

SUVCWORR@...
 

By the early 50's much of domestic use of coal had switched to anthracite to decrease air pollution.  To that end you would need

RDG
LV
CRP
CNJ
D&H
DL&W
L&NE

cars for this purpose.  While the PRR did serve anthracite mines the vast majority were served by the roads above which is why collectively they were known as the Anthracite Roads

Rich Orr



-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Peck lnnrr152@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Nov 17, 2014 1:44 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: we all know hoppers dont travel right?



Alex, you might add L&N with KY bituminous in 55 ton hoppers.
Chuck Peck

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Alex Schneider aschneiderjr@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
Other than home road hoppers, what roads would be appropriate on NYC rails in western Michigan, circa 1952? And would there be a distinction between loads to an electric generating plant, to a coaling tower, and to a coal yard for domestic use? Would 70 ton hoppers be more or less appropriate to any of these destinations?
  • PRR
  • B&O
  • C&O
  • N&W
  • VGN
  • Monon
  • C&EI
  • Wabash
  • IC
  • CB&Q
  • MP
Thanks in advance.

Alex Schneider
​   

Posted by: Alex Schneider <aschneiderjr@...>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (37)

.





Re: we all know hoppers dont travel right?

spsalso
 

The SP&S bought 67 GS gons from D&RGW in 1964-1965.  Perhaps the video shows one being delivered.  Or perhaps they were operated for awhile with D&RGW markings intact.



Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Southern Pacific weigh station initials

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Paul,

Now long gone from the market, Champ decals offered various weigh station decals for several regions. The Western set (HD-52) listed the following for the SP: BKN (Brooklyn, OR), FRN (Fresno), LA (obvious), OAK (Oakland), SAC (Sacramento) and SF (likely San Francisco). The T&NO was represented by ELP (El Paso) and HO (of which I'm not sure; Houston maybe?). I know you wanted out of California, but that's what Champ offered.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 11/17/14 7:55 AM, paul.doggett2472@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Hi Guys

 Can any one help with Southern Pacific weigh station initials particularly the ones outside of California.


Thank you Paul Doggett UK



Re: NKP heavy duty, 4-truck flat car 290 or 2904

jon miller <atsfus@...>
 

Probably totally off subject but would think 3D printing would make a fantastic load for this flat.

--

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: we all know hoppers dont travel right?

Charles Peck
 

Alex, you might add L&N with KY bituminous in 55 ton hoppers.
Chuck Peck

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Alex Schneider aschneiderjr@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Other than home road hoppers, what roads would be appropriate on NYC rails in western Michigan, circa 1952? And would there be a distinction between loads to an electric generating plant, to a coaling tower, and to a coal yard for domestic use? Would 70 ton hoppers be more or less appropriate to any of these destinations?
  • PRR
  • B&O
  • C&O
  • N&W
  • VGN
  • Monon
  • C&EI
  • Wabash
  • IC
  • CB&Q
  • MP
Thanks in advance.

Alex Schneider
​   

Posted by: Alex Schneider <aschneiderjr@...>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (37)

.



Re: we all know hoppers dont travel right?

Tom Vanwormer
 

Paul,
The GS gondola car was the "hopper car" of the western US until the late 60s.
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

paul.doggett2472@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

I have just watched a video with a D&RGW GS gondola loaded with on the SP&S so even drop bottom gons got about with coal loads.

Paul Doggett UK



Re: NKP heavy duty, 4-truck flat car 290 or 2904

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


When I complete my present project, I will be compiling a General Steel Castings railcar production list which will be offered free in the same way I did with the Pressed Steel Car production list. When the time comes, I'll probably be asking the list about built dates and casting/drawing numbers.
 
NKP 2904 was built in about 3-54. NYC 499015-499016 and ATSF 90020 were built about the same time. These seem to be the last of the 250 ton GSI flats except for D&H 16155-16156 built in 4-58.
 
Eric N.
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 12:13 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NKP heavy duty, 4-truck flat car 290 or 2904

 

While not specifically NKP, the 1953 Carbuilder's Cyclopedia has a drawing for the GSC cast steel under-frame for the 250 ton flat cars built for the New York Central and the Delaware & Hudson in 1951.
(200 tons is 400,000 lbs, 250 tons is 500,000 lbs)

The GSC casting for this high capacity four truck flat car was used by other roads as well. It had a length of 44' 4" over the end sills and 45' 4" over the coupler striker faces of the casting.

Both NYC and D&H used the 44' 4" deck length in the car side data.

For the D&H car built in Feb 1951:
Capacity 500,000 lbs (250 tons)
Load Limit 500,300 lbs
Light Weight  99,700 lbs

For the NYC car also built in Feb 1951:
Capacity 501,000 lbs (Nominal 250 tons)
Load Limit 501,300 lbs
Light Weight 98,700 lbs

In spite of these weight data differences, they were essentially the same car, however that half-ton was calulated.

Each drop-staff hand brake worked the truck set for that end of the car.
The brake cylinder for each set of trucks was mounted on the span bolster, between the trucks.

There was a single AB valve and reservoir mounted in the mid section of the under frame of the car, working both sets of brakes

The cars were marked with an "A" end and a "B" end. Although both ends appeared to be identical, the car's retainer valve was on the "B" end.

The trucks had high-capacity 7 1/2" x 14" journals. From the drawing and photos of the D&H and NYC cars, they appear to have paired sets of  two-level spring Buckeye Steel Castings trucks similar to the "Dalman" design, with 33" diameter sheels.

Ed Bommer


Re: we all know hoppers dont travel right?

Tony Thompson
 

Paul Doggett wrote:

 
I have just watched a video with a D&RGW GS gondola loaded with on the SP&S so even drop bottom gons got about with coal loads.


       Quite true, Paul. Most Western railroads had GS gondolas instead of hoppers, especially D&RGW, which served extensive coal fields in western Colorado and eastern Utah. (Note that easterners listing coal areas rarely mention this region.) Likewise UP, SP, WP and others had lots of GS cars on their rosters for both bulk loads and for conventional gondola loads. The coal arriving at the Kaiser Steel mill in Fontana, Calif. was in the transition era heavily GS gondolas (D&RGW, UCR, UP) along with occasional MP hoppers. Remember that MP and D&RGW were cooperative partners in traffic.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: we all know hoppers dont travel right?

paul.doggett2472@...
 

I have just watched a video with a D&RGW GS gondola loaded with on the SP&S so even drop bottom gons got about with coal loads.

Paul Doggett UK


Re: we all know hoppers dont travel right?

Edward
 

Back when coal was a primary fuel for heating and manufacturing, the type of coal was very important for the end consumer.

Anthracite was the coal of choice for home heating. Also small bakeries that had coal; fired hearth ovens. Schools also used anthracite for their steam  heat boilers as did apartment houses.  Oil as a fuel was also used but for WW II many home owners and apartment houses had to refit their oil burning furnaces for coal.  Not a big deal since they were basically coal furnaces rigged to burn more convenient to use oil in the 1920s. 

Bituminous was generally used in larger industrial plants and for generating electricity. Also for most coal burning locomotives and steam powered marine craft that used coal for fuel.

Often an industrial user would have a specific mix of hard and soft coal for their needs.

Where these types of coal came from would basically determine whose hopper cars were employed for delivery. Also 50 to 55 ton cars might be more common that 70 ton cars for the 1950s, especially at small, local coal dealers.

High quality anthracite was basically mined in Northeastern Pennsylvania.
Coal mined in western PA, West Virginia and Kentucky was was primarily bituminous. Coal mined in southern Illinois and the central states was usually of a quality between both types. Much of it was used for power generation. Western coal out of Wyoming, Montana, etc. was basically lignite, of lower heating quality

PRR handled anthracite from NE Pennsylvania as well as bituminous from western PA and West Virginia. Much of this traveled to Philadelphia and New York for those metro areas, as well as into New England. Other anthracite haulers were Eire, Jersey Central, Lehigh Valley, Delaware & Hudson, Lehigh & New England and the Lackawanna.

B&O, C&O, N&W and VGN mainly handled soft coal out of West Virginia and Kentucky. NYC too, served bituminous coal mines deep in West Virginia, hauling it into upper New York and New England.

C&O,  N&W and VGN were large shippers of coal for export out of Newport News VA.  A good deal of B&O's West Virginia coal came to Baltimore and New York for local use and export, as well as up to Canada via Rochester NY.

Monon, C&EI, Wabash and IC basically handled coal from southern Illinois,
CB&Q, and MP carried coal from deposits in the central states.

So on NYC rails in western MI, one would likely see NYC and P&LE hoppers, maybe also C&O, at some coal delivery points. Possibly Erie or even D&H for hard coal delivery.

PRR as well for anthracite but perhaps also the Reading (?), as the NYC owned half of the Reading Company along with the B&O, which basically did not handle anthracite.

Bituminous coal often went to large coal dealers and factories. Anthracite to large and especially small coal dealers, who most often provided coal for heating homes small businesses.

What hoppers you might see on a railroad will depend on the source of the coal and the customer's needs. Also how the coal was sold to local dealers through brokers. That sometimes produces an interesting mix of different railroad's hoppers at a coal dealership.

Ed Bommer



 

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