Date   

Re: Bail Me Out!

thompson@...
 

Tim O'Connor writes:
I have a better idea. Put narrow masking tape over the seam
caps, and paint the roof galvanized steel. Then weather the
heck outta the roof. This is pretty much how 12-14 years old
unrepainted roofs would like like.
This is a clever, even ingenious idea and would certainly solve the roof
repainting problem. OTOH:
Frank Hodina has popularized this approach to roofs, but in looking at
1950s photos, it does not seem to have been all that common. Of course any
one car could exhibit this look, but I'd be more confident if there were
data that a particular car class or car order on a particular railroad in
fact had a problem with paint peeling. They certainly didn't all have that
problem.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: Brass AAR Alternate Standard Hopper (S & HO)

Charlie Tapper <chastap@...>
 

1. Hey! We S-scalers are always looking at yet another HO
product coming out with no equivalent available in our more-
reasonably-sized scale, and now we finally get a brass importer
who actually cares about making accurate prototype models,
and you're crying to get a piece of the action in HO? Don't
you guys already have a lot of options for AAR offset
hoppers? Give me a break!
No. If you model P&WV, W&LE, B&LE, Montour, C&I, etc. as above, you don't
have any easy options for Alternate Standard offset-side hoppers, doubles or
triples. AFAIK, the "Quick Kits" by Sunshine are not available and were a
limited run (right?). I'm interested in modeling Pittsburgh in the 50's...so
a majority of the hoppers that I "need" are of this type.

Hey, maybe they could use all the profits from the HO sales to fund the
less-profitable O and S scale stuff (ducking for cover)<G>.

Charlie Tapper


Re: "Highliner" freight car kits

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Tim,
You can buy the Superior hand brake as a detail part from the CNWHS.
Clark

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Beats me, Bob, but if I could buy the handbrake as a detail
part, I'd order about a dozen...

The thing is, if you're going to make detail parts, you need
to market yourself that way. That is how DA, DW, Cannon, Grandt,
and others have survived in the parts business. You don't have
to be exclusively in the parts business. Athearn and Atlas are
examples. And Atlas is the more interesting example, since as
far as I know, they job out all their injection molding.

I don't think we need a Highliner freight car. I think we just
need a "Cannon" devoted to freight car parts. A single, well
capitalized supplier... Any one of the existing vendors could
fill that need, if they really wanted to make the commitment.

A railroad historical actually funding such detail parts could be a
business model to put the "Highliner" concept into practice.
Unfortunately for modelers of freight cars, with the business model
used by Red Caboose they are correct when they state that no one can
sell enough parts to pay for the investment in the tooling. Others
like Detail Associates, Cannon & Company, etc. must make some profit
to stay in business. What is their business model and how does it
differ?

Bob Witt
Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@attbi.com>
Sterling, Massachusetts

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Forgot Re: Brass AAR Alternate Standard Hopper (S & HO)

tcschc <tculotta@...>
 

This thick-skinned modeler forgot to mention that they will do them with all of
the correct end configs, e.g. peaked, round, Dreadnaught, round with cutout,
etc.

Ted Culotta


Re: Brass AAR Alternate Standard Hopper (S & HO)

Jeff English
 

"tcschc" <tculotta@s...> wrote:

Cryer Gray Foundry is importing S Scale models of the
AAR Alternate
Standard hoppers (C&O, NKP, Erie, Clinchfield, W&LE,
P&WV plus others).
The plans are for S Scale models. However, they are
interested in doing HO
Scale versions as well. If you are interested in seeing them in
HO, please
visit
their site at www.cryergrayfoundry.com and tell them. They
also import
beautiful bridges in S and O. Again if you want the bridges in
HO, please let
them know.<<

1. Hey! We S-scalers are always looking at yet another HO
product coming out with no equivalent available in our more-
reasonably-sized scale, and now we finally get a brass importer
who actually cares about making accurate prototype models,
and you're crying to get a piece of the action in HO? Don't
you guys already have a lot of options for AAR offset
hoppers? Give me a break!

(E-mail misinterpretation disclaimer: for the thin-skinned
among you, the above is <not> to be taken as serious
criticism)

2. I have two of Cryer Gray's S-scale hoppers on deposit, one
"plain AAR" and one C&O Dreadnaught-peaked-end version.
He says they're due in the winter sometime. When they come,
I'll post some critique if you guys are interested in hearing
about a non-HO model.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff English Troy, New York
Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling
englij@rpi.edu

| R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D |
Route of the Whippet
---------------------------------------------------------------


Brass AAR Alternate Standard Hopper (S & HO)

tcschc <tculotta@...>
 

Cryer Gray Foundry is importing S Scale models of the AAR Alternate
Standard hoppers (C&O, NKP, Erie, Clinchfield, W&LE, P&WV plus others).
The plans are for S Scale models. However, they are interested in doing HO
Scale versions as well. If you are interested in seeing them in HO, please visit
their site at www.cryergrayfoundry.com and tell them. They also import
beautiful bridges in S and O. Again if you want the bridges in HO, please let
them know.

Regards,
Ted Culotta


No ZU Rolled Section on Early NYC Cars

Jeff English
 

A long time ago on one or both of these lists, there was a
discussion of the rolled steel eaves used on house cars with
overhanging roof panels, which was apparently developed by the
mills specifically for this application and was called a "ZU" section.
At that time, Chris Barkan asked whether NYC's clone USRA-
design all-steel cars built in the 1920s used this special section for
their eaves. I was unable to answer the question because I had
never seen a drawing of the NYC cars (USRA plans published in
the CBCs show the generic roof specified by USRA, which did not
have overhanging eaves).
Now, thanks to Larry King, I have a general assembly
drawing before me for NYC Lots 489-B through 492-B (circa 1924),
and it is unequivocally clear that the eave is made up of two
standard rolled sections: a Z-section for the main part of the eave,
with an angle-section riveted to it to provide the ledge that
supported the roof panels.
So the question is now cleared up: NYC apparently did not
use a ZU section until they revived overhanging eaves in the early
50s on cars built by Despatch Shops. I would speculate that the
ZU-section was first developed some time in that period.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff English Troy, New York
Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling
englij@rpi.edu

| R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D |
Route of the Whippet
---------------------------------------------------------------


Re: "Highliner" freight car kits

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Tim:

Given the move towards ready-to-run and the fact that a significantly higher
number of modelers focus on detailing locomotives rather than freight cars
makes this a somewhat dubious investment (assuming that the investor[s]
seek to make money). I think that prodding the BLTs and Kadees to add new
parts as they manufacture new models is the most likely avenue.
Ted,

The locomotive details market supports many vendors. Cannon,
DW, DA, Precision Scale, etc. Collectively, the freight car
vendors offer a plethora of parts... But it's a marketing,
distribution, and inventory nightmare for the vendors and for
dealers. I'm not saying that a freight car vendor has to cut
new tooling for everything. A lot of good tooling exists but
is not marketed well (and is not the main focus of the vendors
who produce the parts). A single source for freight car parts
would enhance the freight car market and would not compete with
the freight car kits per se, and especially not with R-T-R. In
general, model railroad marketing sucks. Many hobby shops don't
even have display cases. Most newcomers to the hobby have NO
idea what those parts on the shelves are for. Contrast with a
local model airplane, tank and ship dealer -- who has a large
display with 30-40 beautifully completed models in it. (Not
one of them R-T-R.)

You know when I switched from buying Bev-Bel Athearn cars to
craftsman kits? After I saw several nicely built Tichy models
in a hobby shop display case.

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@attbi.com>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: "Highliner" freight car kits

tcschc <tculotta@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@a...> wrote:
I don't think we need a Highliner freight car. I think we just
need a "Cannon" devoted to freight car parts. A single, well
capitalized supplier... Any one of the existing vendors could
fill that need, if they really wanted to make the commitment.
Tim:

Given the move towards ready-to-run and the fact that a significantly higher
number of modelers focus on detailing locomotives rather than freight cars
makes this a somewhat dubious investment (assuming that the investor[s]
seek to make money). I think that prodding the BLTs and Kadees to add new
parts as they manufacture new models is the most likely avenue.

Ted


Re: "Highliner" freight car kits

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Beats me, Bob, but if I could buy the handbrake as a detail
part, I'd order about a dozen...

The thing is, if you're going to make detail parts, you need
to market yourself that way. That is how DA, DW, Cannon, Grandt,
and others have survived in the parts business. You don't have
to be exclusively in the parts business. Athearn and Atlas are
examples. And Atlas is the more interesting example, since as
far as I know, they job out all their injection molding.

I don't think we need a Highliner freight car. I think we just
need a "Cannon" devoted to freight car parts. A single, well
capitalized supplier... Any one of the existing vendors could
fill that need, if they really wanted to make the commitment.


A railroad historical actually funding such detail parts could be a
business model to put the "Highliner" concept into practice.
Unfortunately for modelers of freight cars, with the business model
used by Red Caboose they are correct when they state that no one can
sell enough parts to pay for the investment in the tooling. Others
like Detail Associates, Cannon & Company, etc. must make some profit
to stay in business. What is their business model and how does it
differ?

Bob Witt

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@attbi.com>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: "Highliner" freight car kits

rwitt_2000 <rmwitt@...>
 

--- In STMFC@y..., Clark Propst <cepropst@n...> wrote:

Gene Green wrote: Now that a Superior 566 hand brake and hand wheel
are available to fit the Red Caboose 1937 AAR 10-0" IH box car, my
life is complete

Gene, I talked to (?Bill Clung?) of Red Caboose at Trainfest. He
said you could sell ice to a Eskimo! He said they will never recoup
the cost of the tooling for that hand brake.

A railroad historical actually funding such detail parts could be a
business model to put the "Highliner" concept into practice.
Unfortunately for modelers of freight cars, with the business model
used by Red Caboose they are correct when they state that no one can
sell enough parts to pay for the investment in the tooling. Others
like Detail Associates, Cannon & Company, etc. must make some profit
to stay in business. What is their business model and how does it
differ?

Bob Witt


Re: Bail Me Out!

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor writes:

I don't think so. Most of these cars were reconditioned in the
1950's, and given reinforced sills (straight across, no tabs).
They received "billboard" lettering and were painted red all
over AFAIK.
3) I could repaint the ends and roofs.
I have a better idea. Put narrow masking tape over the seam
caps, and paint the roof galvanized steel. Then weather the
heck outta the roof. This is pretty much how 12-14 years old
unrepainted roofs would like like.
OK..I'm confused. Are these cars painted painted "red all over" or do they have unpainted roofs. Regardless, I agree completely that weathering is the answer.

Mike Brock


Re: L&NE to LNE Ry

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Tim Gilbert asked if Eric's roster showing the
disposition of cars to the LNE was intended to
show L&N instead.

I have a 1967 photo of LNE 8108 in Pueblo, Colorado.
I believe these cars were at that time under the
control of the Central RR of New Jersey but wore LNE
reporting marks. So I believe Eric's disposition is
correct. I know of another example in that roster
where cars were later renumbered again under a new
owner, so his disposition list only shows immediate
transfers from the L&NE, and not final dispositions.

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@attbi.com>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Trainfest (Atlas reefer)

Scott Pitzer
 

Clark writes:

Atlas is going to do the O scale reefer in
HO.

I checked the Atlas O scale page to see just what reefer they do, and I find
two:
36' wood car built 1925 by General American for Cudahy, and
40' wood car built 1930 by Pullman for NRC

Interesting! Definitely older than any other prototypes in the Atlas HO line!


Scott Pitzer


Re: "Highliner" freight car kits

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Gene Green wrote: Now that a Superior 566 hand brake and hand wheel are
available to fit the Red Caboose 1937 AAR 10-0" IH box car, my life is
complete

Gene, I talked to (?Bill Clung?) of Red Caboose at Trainfest. He said you
could sell ice to a Eskimo! He said they will never recoup the cost of the
tooling for that hand brake. Also the CNWHS booth only had one of the 'green
box car' kits left on the table when we left at 3:30 sat., the show ran
through Sunday. I talked two of the guys I was with into buying the kits. One
was quite peeved to find out the car will be available RTR.
Clark


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Re: Bail me out guys! - NP 40' Paint Scheme errors

Richard Townsend
 

I'd go with option 6: very heavy weathering.

"Steve Haas" <Goatfisher2@attbi.com> wrote:

Guys,

Thanks to a mistake on my part (mis-reading some technical data) I've
painted the roof and ends of a couple of kits that should have been left the
same color as the kit sides. The kits in question are:

IMWX NP 16277 from series 16000 through 17499 blt 5-41, and

Red Caboose NP 15034 from series 15000 through 15999 blt 4-40.

1) Any chance that by 1953-55 these cars would have been repainted with
black ends and roofs? �I doubt it, but I have to ask.

2) Are there other number series that these kits would be correct for as
I've painted them? �Re-numbering would be easier than the options that
follow.

3) I could repaint the ends and roofs. A bit of a masking challenge, as the
kits are already partially assembled, but certainly not impossible. �Anybody
have a paint recommendation to match (or at least come close) to the paint
on the models as delivered by IMWX and Red Caboose?

4) I could strip and repaint the roof and ends - the roofs are still loose
but the ends are attached (in fact, integral to the body on these kits).
Any ideas on how to do a partial strip? �Any body out there with a sand
blaster want to take on the challenge?

5) I could completely strip and repaint.

Anybody got any ideas or recommendations on how to proceed? �Depending on
the option I decide on I could use the following info:

a) Best available paint to match the kits as painted by IMWX and Red Caboose
(Options 3 and 4)?

b) Best available paint to match the NP cars as painted when built (Option
5)?

c) Recommended decal set(s) for renumbering or completely repainting these
cars(options 2,3,4, and 5)?

Thanks in advance for any help!!

Best regards,

Steve Haas
Sammamish, WA
Goatfisher2@attib.com










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Re: Bx-44 (doors)

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote

The BLT kit is essentially correct for the Bx-44 class except
for the doors, which on the prototype cars were an early postwar
style with wide raised seam panels.
In Ed Hawkins' nomenclature, these were YSD-3 doors. My notes
show these used only on the Bx-44 and Rock Island 25250-25499.

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@attbi.com>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Branchline CN box cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

The Branchline boxcars have the appropriate built dates.
However, the kits come with raised panel roofs, inappropriate
for this number series. CN 10'-6" boxcars were delivered with
raised panel roofs through the 1948 deliveries.
Somewhere I read an email from Stafford Swain that said the
1948 cars also may have received diagonal panel roofs. Series
526200-526499 built ECC, and series 526500-527199 built CCF.

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@attbi.com>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Bail Me Out!

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Steve Haas wrote

IMWX NP 16277 from series 16000 through 17499 blt 5-41, and
Red Caboose NP 15034 from series 15000 through 15999 blt 4-40.
1) Any chance that by 1953-55 these cars would have been
repainted with black ends and roofs?
I don't think so. Most of these cars were reconditioned in the
1950's, and given reinforced sills (straight across, no tabs).
They received "billboard" lettering and were painted red all
over AFAIK.

3) I could repaint the ends and roofs.
I have a better idea. Put narrow masking tape over the seam
caps, and paint the roof galvanized steel. Then weather the
heck outta the roof. This is pretty much how 12-14 years old
unrepainted roofs would like like.

The ends? Ok, hit them with a nasty grunge oxide wash. Those
unrepainted ends would be pretty filthy in 1955.

Anybody have a paint recommendation to match (or at least
come close) to the paint on the models as delivered ...
Unless you are modeling 1941, you don't want the same color.
Use a thinned out, lighter color, and highlight the panels
and other large unlettered surfaces. The idea is to make the
paint look faded. I have done this on many factory paint jobs
and it's effective if you're careful. Try not to cover up
the large lettering and monad, since "chalking" tended to
keep those letters cleaner.

You don't have to repaint the model. I have "aged" Kadee PS-1
box cars with factory paint, including changing the roof color.
You can salvage your work!

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@attbi.com>
Sterling, Massachusetts


Bail me out guys! - NP 40' Paint Scheme errors

Steve Haas <Goatfisher2@...>
 

Guys,

Thanks to a mistake on my part (mis-reading some technical data) I've
painted the roof and ends of a couple of kits that should have been left the
same color as the kit sides. The kits in question are:

IMWX NP 16277 from series 16000 through 17499 blt 5-41, and

Red Caboose NP 15034 from series 15000 through 15999 blt 4-40.

1) Any chance that by 1953-55 these cars would have been repainted with
black ends and roofs? I doubt it, but I have to ask.

2) Are there other number series that these kits would be correct for as
I've painted them? Re-numbering would be easier than the options that
follow.

3) I could repaint the ends and roofs. A bit of a masking challenge, as the
kits are already partially assembled, but certainly not impossible. Anybody
have a paint recommendation to match (or at least come close) to the paint
on the models as delivered by IMWX and Red Caboose?

4) I could strip and repaint the roof and ends - the roofs are still loose
but the ends are attached (in fact, integral to the body on these kits).
Any ideas on how to do a partial strip? Any body out there with a sand
blaster want to take on the challenge?

5) I could completely strip and repaint.

Anybody got any ideas or recommendations on how to proceed? Depending on
the option I decide on I could use the following info:

a) Best available paint to match the kits as painted by IMWX and Red Caboose
(Options 3 and 4)?

b) Best available paint to match the NP cars as painted when built (Option
5)?

c) Recommended decal set(s) for renumbering or completely repainting these
cars(options 2,3,4, and 5)?

Thanks in advance for any help!!

Best regards,

Steve Haas
Sammamish, WA
Goatfisher2@attib.com

179741 - 179760 of 192663