Date   

Re: RPM etc Display Table Height?

Aley, Jeff A
 

… and I attended Naperville one year, saw what they had done, and promptly stole the idea for use at Prototype Rails in Cocoa Beach.

The leg extensions for Prototype Rails were made by purchasing long lengths of PVC pipe, and cutting them to an appropriate length using a chop saw.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 11:26 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: RPM etc Display Table Height?

 

 

I believe Mark Fedderson made the ones used at Naperville. Just giving credit, if it’s do?

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: RPM etc Display Table Height?

Mikebrock
 

Denny Anspach writes:

"As to Prototype Rails, we are so fortunate that Mike is retired, has loads of free time, has special skills in cutting PVC pipe to length (and joy in in the doing), and lastly that he personally and carefully installs the pipes around each and leg of the display tables."

That's odd. I thought I had met all the hotel staff but I can't recall a Mike. I mean...isn't one enough?

The cutting of the PVC pipe was performed at Marty's with a special cutting tool. For those seemingly losing touch with reality [ known as forgetting the KISS principle ], I know excatly where the PVC pipe is [ for those curious, it's in a large sack stored in a garbage can outside ]. I know how many lengths we have and hopefully I get the right trash can when I take them to the hotel. Actually, it's not all that bad, we don't use trash cans here anymore except for yard trash, the county supples specially designed ones now. Anyhow, I take the *%#)* things to the hotel along with various extension cords, photos for the Shake etc., etc., on Wed prior to the meet. No, the hotel will not store pipe. But, someone [ definitely not Mike ] working for the hotel puts the *^%@^(% things on the tables. I cannot imagine trying to keep track of people bringing PVC pipe to the hotel [ and neither would the hotel ] . What looks like a good plan seldom works in the real world. Those of us running [ meaning...making it work ] an event like an RPM meet need to pay special attention to the KISS rule. And, while I'm at it, one guess as to the most difficult aspect of a meet. Simple. Food.


Mike Brock
Prototype Rails Bossman


Re: RPM etc Display Table Height?

Marty McGuirk
 

I don't want to start another TSA vs. Trains bashing thread but before you start tossing a couple of lengths of PVC pipe in your carry on remember while PVC pipes are a great way to protect fragile items from getting damaged it can cause problems in checked baggage screening areas. PVC pipe (or any kind of pipe) can easily resemble a pipe bomb when viewed on the X-ray monitor, especially if there are electronic or other items stuffed inside of it.

Marty McGuirk


Re: RPM etc Display Table Height?

Benjamin Hom
 

Gerard Fitzgerald wrote:
"If people can travel long distances with modules to various meets than many will hopefully also be able to bring along some PVC pipe!! I also assume this would be something that can brought along on a commercial aircraft with proper planning."

Flown to a meet lately?  I put my models in my carry on personal item to avoid damage and use a carry-on bag for my other needs.  Carrying PVC pipe means I need to leave something else behind unless I check an additional bag, and I'm not going to pay a $25 bag fees to carry PVC pipe.  I've paid my dues enough ways in this hobby - for those who can't or won't share research or information, you can bring the bloody pipe.


Ben Hom


Re: RPM etc Display Table Height?

Gerry Fitzgerald
 

Hi John,

I like the high table/low table approach and think it is a great way to go. If people can travel long distances with modules to various meets than many will hopefully also be able to bring along some PVC pipe!! I also assume this would be something that can brought along on a commercial aircraft with proper planning.

To be honest I think asking guys to bring four pieces of PVC pipe cut to whatever length is fine and certainly very reasonable. In fact as I recall, this is what the RPM movement is supposed to be about. People just sort of chipping in, showing up, and trying to be helpful, sharing their work and approaches and learning from others at the same time. You paid a fee because venues are not free and if the ticket price was high or higher… all the better as it kept the free doughnut/non-modeling/ always complaining guys at home. RPM was supposed to be about the models and learning about how to be a craftsman, not being in charge or wearing a stupid hat or vest.

I think asking guys to bring long their own pipe is fine and if they want to bring cloth and velcro they can do that too. If they bring their own pipe, perhaps they get a better spot in the hall. Perhaps you and your fellow St. Louis guys could put up a diagram with the lengths and where to put the cap for the table and people will follow through.

Gerard

Gerard J. Fitzgerald

Charlottesville, Virginia


Re: RPM etc Display Table Height?

Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...>
 

Purchase the PVC, cut the lengths needed and go to the trouble of elevating the tables! It is one of the single best improvements that RPM meets have instituted in recent years.  For the first time in memory, one could actually value and inspect models, -fine, average, or less-   at decent perspectives. It deserves to be a requirement for all self-respecting RPM meets.

As to children at RPM meets, h-mmm, lock them up in an adjoining room?

Sitting down can in many ways make it worse because of the inherent difficulties in trying to lower ones head.  Nelson Moyers mentions eye glasses.  Probably the majority of modelers above age 40 wear glasses, or are about to do so  (if not: just wait!), and a large percentage will be bi or tri focals.  In order for so many of these glasses wearers, they simply are unable to stoop or bend down enough actually see the model in either perspective or in focus- and it is very frustrating, if not downright painful.

As to Prototype Rails, we are so fortunate that Mike is retired, has loads of free time, has special skills in cutting PVC pipe to length (and joy in in the doing), and lastly that he personally and carefully installs the pipes around each and leg of the display tables.  Thanks, Mike!

Denny


Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento





Re: Semi Scale Wheelsets

Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...>
 

If appearance alone is the major goal, about all of the semi scale wheels currently available will do.  

If optimal operation is also desired, then one has to pay close attention to nominal axle length as well.  Exact Rail: 1.004”; IM 1.008-12”(newer), 1.013-15 (older); Kadee 1.015”; NWSL 1.015”; Branchline 1.018”. Reboxx: 0.945-1.065”(?).  

Too short axles may in particular trucks maximize rollabiltiy,  but also at the same time significantly lower car height because the axle ends are riding in the widest part of the conical bearing hole, and in addition allow the car not be commonly off-center one way or another so that coupling difficulties ensue with semi-scale couplers (with their narrower gathering faces).  Depending on the trucks (or even two trucks from the same manufacturer), often testing with different axle lengths is the only way to determine the optimal middle ground.

The lovely NWSL wheels apparently are true code 88 with flanges narrowed as well, while most if not all others are simply 110 wheels with narrowed treads.  The axle ends of both the NWSL and Kadee have wider  cones, which in my hands has significantly reduced their abilities to roll optimally in the majority of trucks that I have tested.  I also do love the appearance of the Kadees, however.

My standard is Reboxx, and from experience (and if I can recall correctly from Reboxx owner JP Barger)  if the average critical modeler keeps on hand all sizes from 0.095” to 1.030” (0.05” intervals), you would be covered most of the time.  The big requirements are 1.015”, 1.020”, and 1.025”, and in this regard where I might keep one pack of most sizes, I will keep  three packs of 1.015” and 1.020” , while two of 1.010” and 1.025”.

I also always purchase double insulated wheel sets when and if I can. 

The Branchllne wheel sets were and are a good stand-in for 1.020”, but can and will be found to commonly be pretty tight on a lot of trucks (including their own).

Denny




Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento





summary documents on weathering

Tony Thompson
 

Over the past couple of months, I have been posting, on my blog, segments of a description of my weathering method, which uses washes of acrylic paints. These eventually amounted to 11 posts. Partly because a reader suggested some kind of combined document or documents, I have created two such documents, one on the basic method, and the other on specific car types and details of the method (these include everything that was in the posts, An explanation, and links to these two documents, in the form of Reference Pages on my blog, can be found at this link, if you're interested:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2014/11/a-summary-of-my-acrylic-weathering.html

These documents can be downloaded, printed, etc. as you wish.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Semi Scale Wheelsets

Tony Thompson
 

     I can offer two perspectives on this. First, my own: I use Reboxx almost always, and find the varied axle lengths are essential if you encounter a wide range of trucks. Second, Richard Hendrickson was a great believer in Northwest Short Line wheelsets (available in bulk) and felt that any recalcitrant truck could be brought to the right size with that tool that cuts inside the journal box. Certainly the NWSL wheelsets are beautifully made.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: RPM etc Display Table Height?

Charles Hladik
 

John,
    If you got the local NMRA Division to co-sponsor the event you might qualify for the insurance, which I think runs $50.00.
    
    Here in Central Virginia we have more trouble with the "adults" messing with stuff than the kids. Even with a "barricade rope" at 3 feet away they still insist on looking with their hands. These are mostly college grads. In contrast, we used to do a show in the Ronceverte, West Virginia Armory. At that show we would start trains running on Saturday morning and could (did) walk downtown to the street fair and not a thing was touched. We didn't even put up a rope. A lot better upbringing.
Chuck Hladik
 
In a message dated 11/19/2014 11:44:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:

 

Perhaps we should divide all the RPM Meets into two categories: High Table Meets, and Low Table Meets. We could call the meets "High-T" or "Low-T".  

"High-T" = No risk of Kids Messing with your Stuff (generally because no one under 40 is present)

"Low-T" = High risk of Kids Messing with your Stuff 

St. Louis, for example, would be a "Low-T" meet.  Unfortunately we have plenty of under-40 modelers in attendance which increases the risk of damage exponentially. Our youngest modeler--and he actu ally is a modeler, and paints and decals his own models per prototype photos--is 8 years old.  We even allow "kids" under 13 to get in FREE with a paid adult admission.  

Ironically...even though this is a Low-T/High Risk event we had 40 tables for models in 2014 and it wasn't enough. 

And...we've never had a single reported problem with all those pesky kids touching models.  Nevertheless, I'll spend $400-$500 on PVC pipe to reduce the risk, which also means I have to rent linen tables covers at $10/each to hide all that nastiness under the tables.  That's another $400-$500. 

I'll continue to pa y for the 100 chairs and the $1M insurance policy (no kidding) to ensure your safety and convenience.

Disclaimer: Due to unforeseen expenses the admission at St. Louis just went up from $25 to $50.  See you on Aug 7 and 8, 2015.

John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL


Re: TN&O B50-13 & B50-15 w/Allen Doors

O Fenton Wells
 

Bill I hope this helps. I haven't built mine yet so I will wait for your
article.

Fenton

On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 10:15 PM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] <
STMFC@...> wrote:



I am trying to wrap up an article about building Sunshine kits of
TN&O B50-13 & B50-15 SS boxcars w/Allen Doors for Speedwitch's Vol. 3
modeling journal—kits #17.20 and 38.9 respectively. I have access to the
Sunshine Flyers but not the PDS for either. I am curious if either PDS had
more info about the Allen doors them selves than is on the Flyers? I am
also curious to know from those that have a good collection of Car Builders
Cyc or Railroad Mechanical Engineer if any articles or advertisements about
these unique doors ever appeared in either publication. If so a copy would
be appreciated for research.


Thank you!


Bill Welch






--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: RPM etc Display Table Height?

golden1014
 

Perhaps we should divide all the RPM Meets into two categories: High Table Meets, and Low Table Meets. We could call the meets "High-T" or "Low-T".  

"High-T" = No risk of Kids Messing with your Stuff (generally because no one under 40 is present)

"Low-T" = High risk of Kids Messing with your Stuff 

St. Louis, for example, would be a "Low-T" meet.  Unfortunately we have plenty of under-40 modelers in attendance which increases the risk of damage exponentially. Our youngest modeler--and he actually is a modeler, and paints and decals his own models per prototype photos--is 8 years old.  We even allow "kids" under 13 to get in FREE with a paid adult admission.  

Ironically...even though this is a Low-T/High Risk event we had 40 tables for models in 2014 and it wasn't enough. 

And...we've never had a single reported problem with all those pesky kids touching models.  Nevertheless, I'll spend $400-$500 on PVC pipe to reduce the risk, which also means I have to rent linen tables covers at $10/each to hide all that nastiness under the tables.  That's another $400-$500. 

I'll continue to pay for the 100 chairs and the $1M insurance policy (no kidding) to ensure your safety and convenience.

Disclaimer: Due to unforeseen expenses the admission at St. Louis just went up from $25 to $50.  See you on Aug 7 and 8, 2015.

John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL


Re: Semi Scale Wheelsets

golden1014
 

Hi Rob,

I use semi-scale wheelsets exclusively, mostly Reboxx.  I began to use them for appearance, but learned quickly that the different axle lengths solve freight car alignment.    

Maybe I can explain it better this way: About 12-13 years ago I looked down a line of my freight cars on straight track and noticed that they did not line up longitudinally.  Some cars leaned to the left, some to the right, etc. After tuning kingpins and adjusting couplers the problem still existed.  I discovered that the axles were not tight against the inside of the truck "journal".  The result of the loose-fitting, "free rolling" axles was that the entire body of the car was swaying left and right depening on where the axle was in the truck.  

The solution was Reboxx wheelsets with axles that had close tolerances inside the truck.  I pick the correct axle length for hte brand of truck, keep the kingpins as tight as possible, and scrutinize coupler alignment. That helps to ensure your cars line up longitundinally and your scale brakemen have running boards that line up...per the prototype.

I supose this isn't much of a problem for plastic RTR models, but for Sunshine cars, for example, that aren't machined perfectly I found the addition of Reboxx wheelsets solved the problem.

John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL


Re: Semi Scale Wheelsets

Marty McGuirk
 

Wonder what the issue was with the Intermountain wheelsets vs. Reboxx since the wheels are the same. (Reboxx wheelsets are Intermountain wheels on varied axle lengths).

I've heard one of the issues that sometimes comes up with the bulk packed wheelsets is the way they're packed (in a bag in a box) might result in some of the needlepoint ends of the axles getting bent. I don't think this is much of an issue - especially when you realize the axles are moved around the factory in big bins before the wheels are pressed onto the axles and the wheelsets packaged, so if the needlepoint ends happen to be bent it's likely a result of the manufacturing process and not shipping/packaging.

Marty McGuirk


 


Re: Semi Scale Wheelsets

Andy Sperandeo
 

Hi Rob,

I'm sure I have a few of each kind available, including ExactRail, InterMountain, Reboxx (I think these latter two are the same, except for the varied axle lengths Reboxx offers), Tahoe (probably IM/Reboxx), and Tangent. I like the Tangent wheel faces for their realistic contours, but I try to use whatever gives a good fit in the trucks, and with Tahoe trucks I buy the semi-scale versions and don't change them. I always check whatever wheelsets I use with the NMRA gauge, too, and I'd discard anything that doesn't match (happens extremely rarely).

My advice is to make sure you paint the replacement wheelsets before installing them on your cars. Bright shiny metal wheel faces don't look realistic no matter what the tire width.

So long,

Andy 


Re: RPM etc Display Table Height?

Charles Hladik
 

    Don't forget that the "risers" need to be stored. Run a length of rope through them and tie them to the table. If renting tables tie a bunch together so they don't get lost.
 
Chuck Hladik
 
In a message dated 11/19/2014 8:34:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:

 


Not to hijack this thread however...

 

I as a middle aged person have come to appreciate raised display tables.

 

     Also - I do not believe the future of our hobby lies with the little tykes. Don't get me wrong, my wife and I purchase books and T shirts of a railroad nature for both our nieces and nephews in order to indoctrinate them whenever we can.

 

     However, after keeping a close eye on attendance numbers of children and even teenagers, studying parents and children at a distance  both at at some conventions I have chaired, and over the last 15 years at meets, I have come to think that unless a parent is very heavily involved in the hobby, any younger ones will be drawn off to Angry Birds and later perhaps the other games like we see advertised on these pages.

 

     I think - and this is only my opinion, the ones the hobby (and we) should be looking to are the thirty somethings whose lives have started to settle in some manner and are looking for a reason to get involved in society beyond where they were prior.

 

     And if you accept that premise, raising the tables is the right thing to do.

 

     Raising the tables may force the parents to lift them, however at the recent MilwaukeeTrainfest I observed more than one small child carting his own stepstool or ladder around. And their seemingly boundless energy did not seem to be affected by carrying it.

 

     So to bring this around, I would petition that these table riser pipes be figured as a one time expense and then you have them. That is what my historical society did years ago. An extra dollar on the gate should cover this.

    Also, I feel that - the people who are kind enough to bring and display models - feel more comfortable and secure with the models being raised up. The dollar amount on one table of diplays can be considerable. 

 

 And again - as Schuyler stated, it is easier for the majority of the attendees to see the detail and appreciate the work involved.   

 

Jim Dick - Roseville, MN



---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Spen Kellogg wrote, regarding table height at shows and suggesting that the extensions to raise the tables are not really needed:

 

The other added advantage is that little kids can see a whole lot better.

 

Yup, sure can.  They can REACH them a lot more easily too.  And the parents (if they’re there) seldom  say more than “Johnny, please don’t touch that.”

 

Most of the meets where models are displayed as they are at Cocoa or Naperville are predominantly adult attendees, many of whom are getting “old.”  Old folks don’t much like bending down to see the models, and once seated, may not be anxious to rise and move along.

 

Schuyler

 


Re: Might be a dumb question, Re ORER

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

The NMRA online bookstore was running a sale a couple of weeks ago, and I got the 1953 ORER reprint at the member price of $15 plus shipping. I bought Freight Terminals and Trains with it, and it’s an interesting read with lots of operational information relative to prototype modelers into realistic operation.



Nelson Moyer



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:04 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Might be a dumb question, Re ORER





To All -

This may be a stupid question, however, does anyone know where I could get my hands on an ORER, preferably from the 1950-1952 timeframe? I tried searching the archives but either there wasn't anything to find, or Neo didn't want to work with me.

I should also mention that a PDF version would be fine; I'm interested in the information rather than the original document.

thanks
Paolo Roffo







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Might be a dumb question, Re ORER

David Sieber
 

On STMFC, Paolo Roffo asked "This may be a stupid question, however, does anyone know where I could get my hands on an ORER, preferably from the 1950-1952 timeframe?  I tried searching the archives but either there wasn't anything to find, or Neo didn't want to work with me. I should also mention that a PDF version would be fine; I'm interested in the information rather than the original document."
 
Paolo,
Westerfield has ORERs on CD.  I have several and find them convenient, easy to use, and far less expensive to buy (and ship!) than a large, heavy hard copy.  https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=107&page=3 
Hope this helps, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Re: Might be a dumb question, Re ORER

Bruce Smith
 

Paolo,

Westerfield has the 1950 ORER on DVD - $22

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al

From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:03 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Might be a dumb question, Re ORER



To All -

This may be a stupid question, however, does anyone know where I could get my hands on an ORER, preferably from the 1950-1952 timeframe?  I tried searching the archives but either there wasn't anything to find, or Neo didn't want to work with me.

I should also mention that a PDF version would be fine; I'm interested in the information rather than the original document.

thanks
Paolo Roffo





Might be a dumb question, Re ORER

Paolo Roffo
 

To All -

This may be a stupid question, however, does anyone know where I could get my hands on an ORER, preferably from the 1950-1952 timeframe?  I tried searching the archives but either there wasn't anything to find, or Neo didn't want to work with me.

I should also mention that a PDF version would be fine; I'm interested in the information rather than the original document.

thanks
Paolo Roffo


67761 - 67780 of 196903