Date   

Re: consider the lovely mail and express train shown here

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Claus,

The third car might be a regular freight reefer pressed into service for catalogs or magazines (like the Sears or Monkey Wards catalogs). Reefers were frequently used for carrying this sort of bulk mail rather than sending them home empty.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 11/29/14 5:29 PM, 'Claus Schlund HGM' claus@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Hi List Members,

I ask you all to consider the lovely mail and express train shown here. I am especially interested in the second and third cars of
the consist, which look to be steam era freight cars used in express service, possibly with passenger appliances.

http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=62262&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=5112&DMHEIGHT=4114&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=otto%20perry!prr&DMROTATE=0

Some ancillary information on the image is availabel at the link below.

http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/62262/rec/33

The first car is a PRR class B60b baggage car riding on class 2D-P3 trucks.

Any thought on the second car - appears to be single sheathed 40 foot construction?

Furthermore, any thoughts on the third car - appears to be not far from a conventional 40ft freight reefer?

The fourth car is likely a PRR class X29 in express service.

The remainder of the train appears to be a BM70k mail baggage combine, another B60b, and a P70 coach.

Input on what the the second and third car might be is welcome.

- Claus Schlund



Re: embossed aluminium foil boxcar ends

Charles Hladik
 

How about wine cork foil, twice the fun
Chuck Hladik
 

In a message dated 11/29/2014 5:56:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

How about those foil pans that food comes in?

Carl "My name line is longer than my comment" Gustafson


Re: consider the lovely mail and express train shown here

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Ben and List Members,

Thanks for the reply.

Claus, I agree with you regarding the construction and type of the second and third car; however,
I completely disagree with your assessment that they might be equipped with passenger appliances.
Understood. Altho I will say that stretching my original statement of "possibly with passenger appliances" out to being an assessment is, well, a stretch!

Regular freight cars without passenger appliances were pressed into express service,
especially during periods of high demand such as the holiday rush
Agreed, but I'm still working on figuring out which holiday rush might have occured on August 21, 1937, the date of the photo.

- Claus Schlund



----- Original Message -----
From: "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] consider the lovely mail and express train shown here


Claus Schlund wrote:
"I ask you all to consider the lovely mail and express train shown here. I am especially interested in the second and third cars of the consist, which look to be steam era freight cars used in express service, possibly with passenger appliances.

http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=62262&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=5112&DMHEIGHT=4114&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=otto%20perry!prr&DMROTATE=0

Some ancillary information on the image is available at the link below.

http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/62262/rec/33

The first car is a PRR class B60b baggage car riding on class 2D-P3 trucks.

Any thought on the second car - appears to be single sheathed 40 foot construction?

Furthermore, any thoughts on the third car - appears to be not far from a conventional 40ft freight reefer?

The fourth car is likely a PRR class X29 in express service.

The remainder of the train appears to be a BM70k mail baggage combine, another B60b, and a P70 coach.

Input on what the the second and third car might be is welcome."

Claus, I agree with you regarding the construction and type of the second and third car; however, I completely disagree with your assessment that they might be equipped with passenger appliances. Regular freight cars without passenger appliances were pressed into express service, especially during periods of high demand such as the holiday rush. The P70 may not be hauling revenue passengers but may be serving as a rider coach for the crew.

There were single sheathed express cars - RF&P equipped USRA SS boxcars for express service - but they were few in number.


Ben Hom



------------------------------------
Posted by: Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
------------------------------------


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Yahoo Groups Links




Re: embossed aluminium foil boxcar ends

Andy Carlson
 

The aluminum Martin provided was "Dead-Soft" which allows easy deformation. Most of the sugessted aluminum foils are of a hard variety, and will not hold much shape unless punched in a 20-ton press.

Brass is sold by the hardness also. You would want the softest available for our wished for purposes.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



 
How about those foil pans that food comes in?

Carl "My name line is longer than my comment" Gustafson



Re: embossed aluminium foil boxcar ends

Carl Gustafson
 

How about those foil pans that food comes in?

Carl "My name line is longer than my comment" Gustafson


Re: consider the lovely mail and express train shown here

Benjamin Hom
 

Claus Schlund wrote:
"I ask you all to consider the lovely mail and express train shown here. I am especially interested in the second and third cars of the consist, which look to be steam era freight cars used in express service, possibly with passenger appliances.

http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=62262&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=5112&DMHEIGHT=4114&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=otto%20perry!prr&DMROTATE=0

Some ancillary information on the image is available at the link below.

http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/62262/rec/33

The first car is a PRR class B60b baggage car riding on class 2D-P3 trucks.

Any thought on the second car - appears to be single sheathed 40 foot construction?

Furthermore, any thoughts on the third car - appears to be not far from a conventional 40ft freight reefer?

The fourth car is likely a PRR class X29 in express service.

The remainder of the train appears to be a BM70k mail baggage combine, another B60b, and a P70 coach.

Input on what the the second and third car might be is welcome."

Claus, I agree with you regarding the construction and type of the second and third car; however, I completely disagree with your assessment that they might be equipped with passenger appliances. Regular freight cars without passenger appliances were pressed into express service, especially during periods of high demand such as the holiday rush. The P70 may not be hauling revenue passengers but may be serving as a rider coach for the crew.

There were single sheathed express cars - RF&P equipped USRA SS boxcars for express service - but they were few in number.


Ben Hom


consider the lovely mail and express train shown here

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,

I ask you all to consider the lovely mail and express train shown here. I am especially interested in the second and third cars of the consist, which look to be steam era freight cars used in express service, possibly with passenger appliances.

http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/ajaxhelper/?CISOROOT=p15330coll22&CISOPTR=62262&action=2&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=5112&DMHEIGHT=4114&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=otto%20perry!prr&DMROTATE=0

Some ancillary information on the image is availabel at the link below.

http://cdm16079.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/62262/rec/33

The first car is a PRR class B60b baggage car riding on class 2D-P3 trucks.

Any thought on the second car - appears to be single sheathed 40 foot construction?

Furthermore, any thoughts on the third car - appears to be not far from a conventional 40ft freight reefer?

The fourth car is likely a PRR class X29 in express service.

The remainder of the train appears to be a BM70k mail baggage combine, another B60b, and a P70 coach.

Input on what the the second and third car might be is welcome.

- Claus Schlund


Re: No more transition cars to do?

asychis@...
 

By "saturation" I really meant "diminishing returns"
 
OK, Tim, Thanks, now we are on the same page.
 
Jerry Michels


Re: embossed aluminium foil boxcar ends

Jon Miller
 

On 11/29/2014 1:16 PM, 'Dan L. Merkel' danmerkel@... [STMFC] wrote:
Food service stores have large aluminum foil covers for serving pans


��� I'm thinking that foil is harder than the craft type.

-- 

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: embossed aluminium foil boxcar ends

Dan L. Merkel <danmerkel@...>
 

One more thought... that foil that they used was about the thickness of an aluminum foil pie pan.  Food service stores have large aluminum foil covers for serving pans.  If you got one that wasn’t bent up, that should work as well, and might be cheaper than a “craft” item.
-------------------------------------------------
Dan L. Merkel


Re: embossed aluminium foil boxcar ends

Dan L. Merkel <danmerkel@...>
 

It was a long time ago but in an arts class I had to take in college, some of the kids worked on foil projects where they used a foil that was much, much thicker than even the heavy duty aluminmu foil that you get in a grocery store.  I’d guess that a well stocked craft store would have something like that used for foil art.  Someone else mentioned doing something similar with copper then filling the back with glue to give the finished part extra strength.  Sounds like a good idea.
 
dlm
-------------------------------------------------
Dan L. Merkel
Proud Member of the NKPHTS


Re: PFE wood reefers (was Re: No more transition cars to do?)

Dick Harley
 


Tim O'Connor writes;

"So it looks like the -20 is the only significant (1,000 or more) late wood car that no one has done in HO, and because of the door height can't be trivially bashed from other parts."

Tim, you need to get some sleep.  :-)    The PFE  -20 is a steel car.
Also, as I state on my SmugMug site, the whole -20 car is 1-1/2" taller than a -10 or -14, so the taller door is not easily discernible because the relationship of the door to the top and bottom plates is essentially identical.  The most significant exterior visual difference between a -14 and a -20 is at the bottom of the ends, which is were the end height was increased.

Is a PFE R-40-20 ever going to be accurately tooled in HO?  Don't hold your breath.
It's way down my list of cars I'd like to see tooled in plastic.


Time for my nap,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA



View Document

Jim Poage <poage@...>
 

I've uploaded  attachments to a Google Drive.

View online through https://google.drive/link.com/

Just sign in with your email to view, its very important.

Thanks.

--
Regards,
Jim


Re: embossed aluminium foil boxcar ends

spsalso
 

Surely, I can't be the only one who received one of these as a gift during the non-digital age:




Re: PFE wood reefers (was Re: No more transition cars to do?)

Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks Tony & Dick, I had not paid much attention YET to the wood cars
and have only built -4 -9 and -12 versions so far. But I'm very happy to
know I can build -19's and -21's using Terry's kits in addition to the
-16 and -19.

So it looks like the -20 is the only significant (1,000 or more) late
wood car that no one has done in HO, and because of the door height can't
be trivially bashed from other parts.

Tim O'Connor

Tim O'Connor did a fine job of listing the four plastic injection-molded PFE wood ice reefers that have been available for 10+ years and are still very good models today.

However Tim must have forgotten that a PFE R-30/40-19 is basically an R-30/40-18 with a metal running board.

And, that a PFE R-30/40-21 is basically an R-30/40-19 with mechanical fans.

As Tony Thompson mentioned, Terry Wegmann sold kits for the -19 and -21. Also, InterMountain has done RTR models of the -19 (part #47410) and the -21 (part #s 47415 and 47416).

So having a good representation of PFE wood ice cars in your model fleets is not hard to do today - even without building the many resin kits that Sunshine did. That's one reason I did a clinic about the subject and posted info to my SmugMug site.

Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA


Re: embossed aluminium foil boxcar ends

Scott H. Haycock
 

K&S has a line of foils called "Create With Metal" that you can get in the dollhouse section of Hobby Lobby. I bought a roll 12" by 30" of 40 gauge (0.003") copper for flashing on structures. I suspect it would work in this application as well. I also think it could be used to patch X29 boxcars, and make gusset plates for outside braced boxcars as well, although I haven't tried these things.

Scott Haycock


 




    Never tried it but am thinking .005 (or .006/.007) would work in either copper or aluminum.

--

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS




Re: No more transition cars to do?

Dick Harley
 

Tim O'Connor did a fine job of listing the four plastic injection-molded PFE wood ice reefers that have been available for 10+ years and are still very good models today.

However Tim must have forgotten that a PFE R-30/40-19 is basically an R-30/40-18 with a metal running board. And, that a PFE R-30/40-21 is basically an R-30/40-19 with mechanical fans.
As Tony Thompson mentioned, Terry Wegmann sold kits for the -19 and -21. Also, InterMountain has done RTR models of the -19 (part #47410) and the -21 (part #s 47415 and 47416).

So having a good representation of PFE wood ice cars in your model fleets is not hard to do today - even without building the many resin kits that Sunshine did. That's one reason I did a clinic about the subject and posted info to my SmugMug site.


Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA


Re: embossed aluminium foil boxcar ends

Jon Miller
 

On 11/29/2014 9:59 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
You can buy thin, soft foil
in aluminum and copper, and I think it comes in different thicknesses.

    Never tried it but am thinking .005 (or .006/.007) would work in either copper or aluminum.

-- 

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Prototype fidelity

Tim O'Connor
 

John L Hodson wrote

> Dave: I agree completely with your assessment ... [snip] ...
> Andy Carlson's writing is hardly productive ... [further slams omitted] ...

John I think it's possible to express your ideas without the need to put others
here down. Or at least put them down without naming names. I think the sheriff
already expressed his concern that this thread was headed in an unwelcome direction.

Tim O'Connor


ADMIN: Re: Prototype fidelity

Mikebrock
 


Well, in order to maintain civility in the STMFC, I am going to respond to John Hodson's message.
 
First, I acknowledge that John had a computer failure lately and may well have lost a copy of the group's rules. Nevertheless, I do NOT want a flame war to develop on the STMFC with regard to John's comments.
 
So, note the STMFC rules which John's message violates:
 
 "Emphasis is to
be placed on the study of the prototype with
a goal of producing models of them with as great a degree of accuracy as
possible." .
 
"Personal attacks on other members, manufacturers or prototype modeling
events is expressly prohibited
and may result in
expulsion from the group. Members are expected to conduct themselves in a
gentlemanly manner. Personal attacks on anyone including non members is not
permitted."

"Members are permitted to criticize or praise manufacturer's products free
from criticism from other members. Criticism of a manufacturer's business
practices is, however, not within the scope of the group."

"Threads or subjects may be terminated only by myself or my
representatives. When threads/subjects are terminated, members are expected
to avoid sending messages associated with such threads/subjects."
 
The thread "Prototype Fidelity" was terminated on Nov 24. There are so many additional violations of the group's rules including, specifically, that against personal attacks, that I am merely going to note that replies are not necessary because John cannot respond on the STMFC since he now resides in Moderate Jail.
 
For those not understanding a major principle of the STMFC, let me explain it. If you disagree with another member with regard to an in scope issue...for example, a model's accuracy...you are free to comment on the accuracy or lack thereof. You are not free to make negative comments about another member with a different view. [ as in: "Andy Carlson’s writing is hardly productive. I don’t believe he recognizes the role of fund raising in historical..."
Or: "Tony Thompson’s remarks are not of much use either.."
 
End of subject.
 
Mike Brock
STMFC Owner
 
 


 .

 
 

 

Dave:
I agree completely with your assessment. I worked for one fallen flag railroad (merged into Union Pacific later)  and retired from another now fallen flag railroad (merged into BN). The railroad in my home town was the Minneapolis & St. Louis, merged into the C&NW. I worked on that track but after the C&NW owned it so that wouldn’t count as a third. My children are not interested in railroad history so they will not follow me. My grandchildren like trains but not enough to be a member of one of the societies. They only know that the Union Pacific owns a lot of track and the old roads that constitute the UP are not part of their experience. My grandson is interested in being a Naval Aviator and wants to be a part of HMX-1 (USMC) at Quantico because I am a United States Marine (Once a Marine, always a Marine!).

I belong to a number of historical societies because I am interested in the history of railroads in general and some very specifically. I will maintain my membership as long as I am able. The internecine bickering about authenticity is counter-productive as you have explained. I like to have models that are as accurate as possible and I will go to the lengths I need to produce it for myself. As you know, some of the historical societies have very well done modeling groups, the PRR, B&O and C&NW come to mind at the moment.

Andy Carlson’s writing is hardly productive. I don’t believe he recognizes the role of fund raising in historical societies. One of them has a real challenge in bringing an articulated steam locomotive to life. The engine in question is a medium size locomotive and was housed in a museum. I do know that the fund raising is not always successful and grants are not always wisely used, an example of this is seen in the Pennsylvania K4s, the engine number 1371 (I believe if my memory has not turned to Gouda cheese). The engine has been in an unassembled state for at least a decade and perhaps even more. I gather Andy Carlson is a member of the Southern Pacific Historical Society which has in fact purchased some tooling from Red Caboose model company for two Southern Pacific cars. I know the kits are in the forty dollar range. He apparently has plenty of cash on hand to purchase these.

Tony Thompson’s remarks are not of much use either. I assume from his posting, I am likely “past my ‘sell by’ date’”. I have two Tyco refrigerator car bodies and some other parts with which to build a pair of PFE R-30-19 composite rebuilds. Not 100% accurate I think but in my opinion, enough so. What do these “totally accurate” people do. Run the cars to the RIP track to renew the bearings and repack the journals? How do they get the journal box lids open to repack the journals? I could make a counter-productive remark publically but I am going to resist the temptation! Metanoya (Biblical Greek for repent)!

Ah, well, enough of my rant! This drivel as you very accurately call It does irk me!

Cordially,

John L. Hodson  




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