Date   

Re: Car weight question

Greg Martin
 

Pierre,
 
You never said what the difference was. Could be the trucks but cars from the same lot varied for the first cat to the last, by as much as three hundred pounds.
 
Greg Martin
 
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 

In a message dated 12/6/2014 5:27:07 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
I'm looking at a certain class of boxcar that was built with 3 different styles of trucks through it's series. ASF A-3, Sullin and Buckeye trucks.
Would there have been enough difference in the weight of the different trucks to have the different build orders show different "Light weight" stencils on the cars?
--
Pierre Oliver


Re: UTLX tank car

Charles Morrill
 

Thanks to all for the info.  Is there a good photo of a 5xxxx series type X published somewhere?  I’d like to have one of these in my O scale roster one day.  I already have a type V built from a On3 kit and converted back to standard gauge.
 
Charlie
 

Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 9:03 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] UTLX tank car
 


I agree that this is a type X car.  UTLX did a lot of converting of older cars for new services by adding heater coils, which it the reason for the patch on the car end.  So, this car would have been in a 5xxxx number series.  It appears that at this or some time, they have also replaced the screw type dome cover with the bolted style and they were able to add the single safety valve, which is all that is required for cars from 6500 gallons capacity and lower.  This car does appear to be this size, judging for the large number of photos I have studied over the years.

 

It’s a neat picture to see, for sure.

 

Regards,

Steve Hile

 


 


Re: Xxtreme Modeling presentation

O Fenton Wells
 

Shameless advertising for your clinic!!!  Excellent, see you there.

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:17 PM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

I finally polished off the two articles I was working on for Speedwitch's modeling journal and began sorting through photos I plan to use for my Cocoa Beach presentation. As anyone who writes knows, although you may have the topic or title in your head, it is great good fortune that when in moment you sit down to write or assemble that the Muse comes and rests on your shoulder. I am a very big fan of Jack (or John) Spencer and I cannot believe how much what I am going to show attendees differs from what Jack does. For those who are familiar, please tell me after The Beach what you think, am I right when I say this.


I say this because what I am going to show you deals with mostly wood-sheathed cars and in my studied opinion many things like Placard Boards, Sill Steps, and Door Stops just to name several small but important details of the cars of the day that commonly varied from railroad to railroad and it these kinds of detail differences that I enjoy modeling and seek to individualize and I hope to Evangelize you to enjoy this as well. You will also see some scratch built tank dome fixtures made by using my Dremel as a lathe at a very slow speed and other techniques from my wacky mind such as how to make a flange when you need one. I hope you will come and join in my Crazy.


Bill Welch




--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: Car weight question

Tim O'Connor
 


small differences in weight (+/- 100 lb precision) seem highly likely


I'm looking at a certain class of boxcar that was built with 3 different styles of trucks through it's series. ASF A-3, Sullin and Buckeye trucks.
Would there have been enough difference in the weight of the different trucks to have the different build orders show different "Light weight" stencils on the cars?
-- 
Pierre Oliver


Re: Car weight question

Bill Vaughn
 

Light weight is within 100 pounds.  So variances in steel, trucks etc etc, could change the weight.  Remember light weight in our era of modeling was used for billing. 

Bill Vaughn


On Friday, December 5, 2014 4:23 PM, "richtownsend@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
I've seen cases where that is the case, but I don't know with respect to those specific trucks.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Oliver pierre.oliver@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Dec 5, 2014 1:35 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Car weight question

 
I'm looking at a certain class of boxcar that was built with 3 different styles of trucks through it's series. ASF A-3, Sullin and Buckeye trucks.
Would there have been enough difference in the weight of the different trucks to have the different build orders show different "Light weight" stencils on the cars?
--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com



Xxtreme Modeling presentation

Bill Welch
 

I finally polished off the two articles I was working on for Speedwitch's modeling journal and began sorting through photos I plan to use for my Cocoa Beach presentation. As anyone who writes knows, although you may have the topic or title in your head, it is great good fortune that when in moment you sit down to write or assemble that the Muse comes and rests on your shoulder. I am a very big fan of Jack (or John) Spencer and I cannot believe how much what I am going to show attendees differs from what Jack does. For those who are familiar, please tell me after The Beach what you think, am I right when I say this.


I say this because what I am going to show you deals with mostly wood-sheathed cars and in my studied opinion many things like Placard Boards, Sill Steps, and Door Stops just to name several small but important details of the cars of the day that commonly varied from railroad to railroad and it these kinds of detail differences that I enjoy modeling and seek to individualize and I hope to Evangelize you to enjoy this as well. You will also see some scratch built tank dome fixtures made by using my Dremel as a lathe at a very slow speed and other techniques from my wacky mind such as how to make a flange when you need one. I hope you will come and join in my Crazy.


Bill Welch


Cocoa

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I will be attending Prototype Rails 2015, where we will learn more about Steam Era Freight Cars.

 

But I need a roommate for Friday and Saturday nights.  Please contact me OFF LIST at schuyler.larrabee (at) Verizon.net.

 

Thanks.

 

Schuyler


Re: UTLX tank car

Steve and Barb Hile
 

I agree that this is a type X car.  UTLX did a lot of converting of older cars for new services by adding heater coils, which it the reason for the patch on the car end.  So, this car would have been in a 5xxxx number series.  It appears that at this or some time, they have also replaced the screw type dome cover with the bolted style and they were able to add the single safety valve, which is all that is required for cars from 6500 gallons capacity and lower.  This car does appear to be this size, judging for the large number of photos I have studied over the years.

 

It’s a neat picture to see, for sure.

 

Regards,

Steve Hile

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 12:07 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] UTLX tank car

 

 

Charlie,

 

I don’t think that it is really appropriate to call this a “high walkway” tank car.  True high walkway cars had the walkway up around where the hand rail is.  This car is appears to be a UTLX Type X design (based on the absence of a lip at the bottom of the tank which would indicate a type V, Van Dyke frames design).  If there is only a single relief valve, then the capacity must be 6,000 gallons or less.  However, there may be a second valve at the opposite end of the dome, which is obscured.

 

Regards

Bruce

 

Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

 

 

On Dec 5, 2014, at 11:53 AM, 'Charlie Morrill' badlands@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

There is a high walkway UTLX tank car in this photo:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Negative-Southern-Pacific-Railroad-Steam-Locomotive-2769-Lake-Tahoe-Branch-/271694384724?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f423f4e54

I'm guessing an 8000 gal capacity.  Note the single top-of-dome relief valve
instead of the side relief valve and the bolted cover plate on the tank end.
Any idea of the number series?

BTW To help date the photo, this branch line was abandoned Nov. 1943.

Charlie 


Re: Car weight question

Richard Townsend
 

I've seen cases where that is the case, but I don't know with respect to those specific trucks.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre Oliver pierre.oliver@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Dec 5, 2014 1:35 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Car weight question

 
I'm looking at a certain class of boxcar that was built with 3 different styles of trucks through it's series. ASF A-3, Sullin and Buckeye trucks.
Would there have been enough difference in the weight of the different trucks to have the different build orders show different "Light weight" stencils on the cars?
--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com


Re: Rivet Counter

Mike Fortney
 

Quoting John citing Richard and adding just a bit more flavor, "The rivet counting will continue until morale improves!"

Mike Fortney
Dry Grove TWP, IL


Re: Rivet Counter and truss rod counter!

Mark Drake <markstation01@...>
 

I guess for me rivet counting is like religion; you can't make people believe what you believe-
 
Mark L. Drake
eBay ID member1108


On Friday, December 5, 2014 4:04 PM, "Nolan Hinshaw cearnog@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
On Dec 5, 2014, at 4:12 AM, Howard R Garner cascaderail@... [STMFC] wrote:

> Count truss rods? Every day.

One! One truss rod!
Two! Two truss rods!
--
"Not only is it not right, it's not even wrong!"
From Wolfgang Pauli, perpetrator of the Pauli Exclusion Principle




Re: Accurail USRA hopper

Misc Clark
 

Garth,
spike, indeed! :)
Clark

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 4:21 PM, Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Clark,

Users of coal need certain thermal properties, whether for industrial or power plants, steam boilers, or smelting. This often this means that coal is blended to get the exact properties needed. When I was in the Coast Guard I managed to get a Conrail vice-president and myself a tour of the N&W loading facilities at Norfolk. I was astounded to learn that each hopper car's load was graded by thermal level, sulfur content, granular size, and probably ash type. When a ship arrived, cuts of various types were pulled and dumped into each hold to blend the coal to the buyer's specifications. So maybe those NYC hoppers were on their way to "spike" some lower grade mid-western bituminous or lignite (Iowa used to produce a lot of low-thermal "brown" lignite).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 12/5/14 12:27 PM, Misc Clark clark.cone4@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
Curious, what are the chances of a Q car ending up on the east coast? Was the midwest bituminous a competitor of the east coast bituminous thus resulting in local service (localized regionally as opposed to national distribution) only so the Q cars would not cross the Mississippi? How is it that NYC cars ended up in Iowa? Empties to be loaded with that bituminous or loaded with east coast bituminous or, God forbid, anthracite...?
Clark Cone
SPF - Elmira Branch - coal conduit




Re: UP Freight Car Red

Tony Thompson
 

Arved Grass wrote:

 

Sorry if this has been asked in the past, but it's an old issue that's been bothering me. Star Brands paint lists their STR-30 paint as S.P./U.P. freight car red. I've never considered the U.P. and S.P. colors the same . . .


     Depends on era, Arved. They were certainly the same in the Harriman era, and appear to have remained the same through the 1930s, until UP adopted a much redder, even orange-tinged, color. After that, no, they were certainly not the same. 
      As a passing comment, I can tell you from personal examination of SP color drift panels, that the "mineral" color did not change significantly from 1920 to 1960, and even the 1994 panel I have is only very slightly different. Some have claimed that after World War II, SP went to a richer, deeper color, but the drift panels I have seen do not bear that out.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: UTLX tank car

Brian Carlson
 

Garth, read Bruce's email again. He didn't say what you think he said 
BrianCarlson 


On Dec 5, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Charlie,

By now you've seen Bruce's comment that this is a Van Dyke tank car. 


Car weight question

Pierre Oliver
 

I'm looking at a certain class of boxcar that was built with 3 different styles of trucks through it's series. ASF A-3, Sullin and Buckeye trucks.
Would there have been enough difference in the weight of the different trucks to have the different build orders show different "Light weight" stencils on the cars?
-- 
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com


Re: UTLX tank car

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Charlie,

By now you've seen Bruce's comment that this is a Van Dyke tank car. There is a very good color shot of one of these on page 28 of John Henderson's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS vol. 2. The car in the photo is a 4,000 gallon car numbered 57400-59119, built in 1916, and still going strong in 1969.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 12/5/14 12:53 PM, 'Charlie Morrill' badlands@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

There is a high walkway UTLX tank car in this photo:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Negative-Southern-Pacific-Railroad-Steam-Locomotive-2769-Lake-Tahoe-Branch-/271694384724?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f423f4e54

I'm guessing an 8000 gal capacity. Note the single top-of-dome relief valve
instead of the side relief valve and the bolted cover plate on the tank end.
Any idea of the number series?

BTW To help date the photo, this branch line was abandoned Nov. 1943.

Charlie



UP Freight Car Red

arved_grass
 

Sorry if this has been asked in the past, but it's an old issue that's been bothering me. Star Brands paint lists their STR-30 paint as S.P./U.P. freight car red. I've never considered the U.P. and S.P. colors the same:

UP 126281:

http://lariverrailroads.com/freight_car/up126281.jpg

SP 210931:
http://lariverrailroads.com/freight_car/sp210931.jpg

Assuming I'm right (boy, is that a big assumption!), what's the scoop? Is there a better match for UP freight car red in the Star Brand/Tru-Color paint lineup?

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@yahoo.com or Arved@I-Do-Photography.com
Fleming Island, Florida


Re: Accurail USRA hopper

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Clark,

Users of coal need certain thermal properties, whether for industrial or power plants, steam boilers, or smelting. This often this means that coal is blended to get the exact properties needed. When I was in the Coast Guard I managed to get a Conrail vice-president and myself a tour of the N&W loading facilities at Norfolk. I was astounded to learn that each hopper car's load was graded by thermal level, sulfur content, granular size, and probably ash type. When a ship arrived, cuts of various types were pulled and dumped into each hold to blend the coal to the buyer's specifications. So maybe those NYC hoppers were on their way to "spike" some lower grade mid-western bituminous or lignite (Iowa used to produce a lot of low-thermal "brown" lignite).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 12/5/14 12:27 PM, Misc Clark clark.cone4@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
Curious, what are the chances of a Q car ending up on the east coast? Was the midwest bituminous a competitor of the east coast bituminous thus resulting in local service (localized regionally as opposed to national distribution) only so the Q cars would not cross the Mississippi? How is it that NYC cars ended up in Iowa? Empties to be loaded with that bituminous or loaded with east coast bituminous or, God forbid, anthracite...?
Clark Cone
SPF - Elmira Branch - coal conduit



Re: Rivet Counter and truss rod counter!

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Dec 5, 2014, at 4:12 AM, Howard R Garner cascaderail@bellsouth.net [STMFC] wrote:

Count truss rods? Every day.

One! One truss rod!
Two! Two truss rods!
--
"Not only is it not right, it's not even wrong!"
From Wolfgang Pauli, perpetrator of the Pauli Exclusion Principle


Re: Accurail USRA hopper

David
 

Midwest coal tended to be lower quality than good Appalachian bituminous, so it would not have been common to send it east. However, hoppers did tend to be confiscated by connecting roads to alleviate their own car shortages, so it's not impossible for the occasional rogue car to show up in unexpected places.

Per NYC, keep in mind that it did run through the same Illinois-Indiana coal territory as Burlington, IC, C&EI, C&NW, etc.

David Thompson

57561 - 57580 of 187318