Date   

ACF reefer question

A&Y Dave in MD
 

In the Hendrickson and Kaminski billboard reefer book there is a March 1934 photo of a URTX reefer #19511 painted for the G. Heilman Brewing company's Old Style lager. The 40' reefer was built by ACF in 1922.

I'd like to build an HO scale model of this car, but I don't know much about reefers. Westerfield has a couple of ACF built 40 ton 40' reefers that were leased/owned by UTRX. The Westerfield site refers to "type 2 and type 3" (product# 6600 and 6700). What are the differences between types and how would I know which version to start with?

I'll figure out the artwork, as the reason for my interest is that my Dad is from LaCrosse, WI, home of the Heilman brewery until 1996. I may add a Special Export billboard to the other side, since that was my Dad's favorite, the car fits my layout time period and, though very highly unlikely, it is not totally impossible that the reefer made its way to North Carolina before billboards were banned. Other than that artistic license, I want to model it accurately.

Any help on the type 2 vs 3 differences?

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott's iPad


Re: Cocoa Beach Request

Douglas Harding
 

Some may not be aware Bob typically sells photos out of his room at Cocoa Beach, so calling the hotel and asking to be put through to his room is an excellent suggestion.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Cocoa Beach clinic slides posted

Tom Madden
 

I've put a PDF file of the slides from my Advanced Mold Making and Resin Casting clinic this evening in my Dropbox. Here's the link to download:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/v8jtehvjwxqnx8t/Advanced.pdf?dl=0


It's a big file, 16Mb, and there are 200 slides on 100 pages. It will take longer to read than it will for me to present! (It's essentially a narrated slide show, most of which shows things step by step so it moves very quickly and, hopefully, smoothly.)


Tom Madden


Re: Cocoa Beach Request

Alexander Schneider Jr
 

Why don't you call the Hilton and ask to be put thru to his room?

Alex Schneider

From: "Kevin Sprayberry csxt5555@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC list
Sent: Friday, January 9, 2015 8:31 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Cocoa Beach Request

Can somebody that's attending Cocoa please contact me.  I would like for someone to see if Bob's Photos has a few pics I need. You can call me anytime.

Thanks
Kevin Sprayberry
csxt5555@yahoo
404 909 3230



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Posted by: Kevin Sprayberry <csxt5555@...>
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Cocoa Beach Request

csxt5555
 

Can somebody that's attending Cocoa please contact me. I would like for someone to see if Bob's Photos has a few pics I need. You can call me anytime.

Thanks
Kevin Sprayberry
csxt5555@yahoo
404 909 3230


Re: Bobs photos

water.kresse@...
 

Bob prints up batches of photos that he believes are of interest to rail fans in that district of the country.  He has binders of sleeved photo of C&O, or N&W, etc. railroad FCs printed up.  He really doesn't know what he has at any specific time. You just end up looking and grabbing what you want.  I have never seen a "list" to request from.
Al Kresse


From: "'Scott Dam' scott.dam@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2015 11:24:58 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bobs photos

 

Bob is in Cocoa Beach this week. If you are close, still time to get here.
Scott
 
Scott Dam



Re: Scalecoat paint

Pierre Oliver
 

Personally, I find that colour too brown.
I prefer to use Oxide Red for PRR.
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 1/8/2015 10:07 AM, Kevin Sprayberry csxt5555@... [STMFC] wrote:

�

Has anyone used Scalecoat I PRR freight car red? Is it a good match for the 50's red? Need to paint my h32 but want to make sure before I order spray cans. If it needs a mixture what's a good mix?

Kevin Sprayberry



Re: Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper

Brian Carlson
 

It is a riveted connection plate where the side sheathing came together. It could also be called a splice plate. Easiest way to see this is the article in RPC 5

Page 86 top B&M Builders photo

Look at roughly the third points along the side and you see an additional doubler (splice) plate where the side panels are joined. The rivets in this connection are not staggered. Also on the B&M car not there is not a plate at the bolster where the tapered upper plate joins the full height side plate. The B&M MP, Milwaukee and MKT only have two doubler plates as-built. Sometimes repairs or replacement changed th configuartion

 

Top page 93 Erie Builders photo.

This car has 5 doubler plates, at the bolsters, and 3 between the hoppers.  C&O has the same construction. Now the rivets could be replicated with Archer decals but the actual thickness of the plate would be tough to do.

 

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 12:51 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper

 

 


Brian thanks for the thorough review. What is a doubler plate?

Tim O'Connor


Re: Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper

Tim O'Connor
 

Brian thanks for the thorough review. What is a doubler plate?

Tim O'Connor

This is the slightly modified review I posted to the EL mailing list (the list covers the Erie, DL&W and EL) on 12/26. Keep in mind this review was done in reference to the Erie model that I could have used.

I finally had more time to look into these hoppers. These were an AMC design car built in 1930. The Erie and C&O had similar cars. These appear to be patterned after Erie's 39000-series 4-bay cars, which were built in 1930 by Standard Steel Car. The original series was 39000-39799, 800 cars. There were still over 500 cars in the July 1957 ORER, The Erie had begun to sell their cars off to shortlines in the mid to late 1950's. By January 1959 there were 258 cars and by January 1961 94 cars. RPC 5 covers these cars.

Now for the Broadway Model. The pre-production samples on the BLI site match the details of the B&M, MP, Milwaukee and MKT cars best. This is unfortunate since it would have made more sense to follow the B&O which had 7000 of these cars. I can't say for certain which road they used for prototype since there are subtle differences in the side sheathing, doubler plates, end panel taper, ladders, hand brakes, trucks. A close up photo of the trucks on the BLI site show them to be patterned after Symington trucks so B&M and MILW prototypes seem likely.

The differences in the model and the Erie cars include trucks, doubler plates and ladders. It's possible the end taper is wrong too. Also, IF the model is based on the B&M or MilW cars the IL and side height will be incorrect. The Erie cars had an IL of 41'-2 7/8" and an side height if 10'-3 3/8" The BM and MILW cars were 40'-5" and 10'-8: respectively.

All is not lost though, since the B&M sold some cars to the DL&W in the mid 50's. I am not sure how long they lasted, and I've no interest in modeling one so someone else can look up that information.

I had originally planned to get a 4 pack for my 1957 era Erie, so I was planning to do this comparison anyway. I am not sure I'll buy them now, the doubler plates are obvious and hard to correct, and swapping out BLI trucks is often a pain. The old Athearn quad, which is based on the B&O may be a better starting point for Erie cars. I'll have to pick up one at a swap meet to see.

Note many dealers will break up the 4 packs.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper

Brian Carlson
 

This is the slightly modified review I posted to the EL mailing list (the list covers the Erie, DL&W and EL) on 12/26.  Keep in mind this review was done in reference to the Erie model that I could have used.

 

I finally had more time to look into these hoppers. These were an AMC design car built in 1930. The Erie and C&O had similar cars. These appear to be patterned after Erie's 39000-series 4-bay cars, which were built in 1930 by Standard Steel Car.  The original series was 39000-39799, 800 cars. There were still over 500 cars in the July 1957 ORER, The Erie had begun to sell their cars off to shortlines in the mid to late 1950's.. By January 1959 there were 258 cars and by January 1961 94 cars. RPC 5 covers these cars.

 

Now for the Broadway Model. The pre-production samples on the BLI site match the details of the B&M, MP, Milwaukee and MKT cars best. This is unfortunate since it would have made more sense to follow the B&O which had 7000 of these cars. I can't say for certain which road they used for prototype since there are subtle differences in the side sheathing, doubler plates, end panel taper, ladders, hand brakes, trucks. A close up photo of the trucks on the BLI site show them to be patterned after Symington trucks so B&M and MILW prototypes seem likely.

 

The differences in the model and the Erie cars include trucks, doubler plates and ladders.  It's possible the end taper is wrong too. Also, IF the model is based on the B&M or MilW cars the IL and side height will be incorrect. The Erie cars had an IL of 41'-2 7/8"  and an side height if 10'-3 3/8"  The BM and MILW cars were 40'-5" and 10'-8: respectively. 

 

All, is not lost though, since the BM sold some cars to the DL&W in the mid 50's. I am not sure how long they lasted, and I've no interest in modeling one so someone else can look up that information.

 

I had originally planned to get a 4 pack for my 1957 era Erie, so I was planning to do this comparison anyway. I am not sure I'll buy them now, the doubler plates are obvious and hard to correct, and swapping out BLI trucks is often a pain. The old Athearn quad, which is based on the B&O may be a better starting point for Erie cars. I'll have to pick up one at a swap meet to see.

 

Note many dealers will break up the 4 packs.

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY


Re: Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper

Dave Parker
 

I am anxious to see Brian's review (hint) but, based on the photos, the BLI hopper could well be the "least bad alternative" for the B&M hoppers delivered in 1929-30.  There is certainly some work to be done, and the lettering is much too late for my needs, but they look better than the existing alternatives (Athearn, AHM, MTH, etc.).

I am intrigued by the 6-spring trucks, which have heretofore been problematic.

I note in passing that they only seem to available in 4-packs, so I will probably have to commit to see one in the flesh.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Re: Bobs photos

Scott Dam
 

Bob is in Cocoa Beach this week. If you are close, still time to get here.
Scott
 
Scott Dam


Re: Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper

pennsylvania1954
 

Tim--Just considering boxcars, we have a lot of different models to keep straight. It is a good time to be modeling freight cars!

Have fun.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Bobs photos

Scott
 

How does it work?  You call him ask if he has pictures of say a MoPac boxcar and he gives you car numbers or something?

Scott McDonald


Re: Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper

John King
 


See RPC #4. Broadway did one of the 1929 design versions of the quad hopper.  If you are modeling MP, MILW or MKT you are in luck.  The other 1929 owners had some details that were different.

B&O had the earlier 1926 design. For B&O, I have reluctantly concluded that scraping the ladders off the Athearn car is still the least bad alternative.   The undecorated cars unfortunately have a thick coat of paint that will make adding details such as the external doubler strips (RPC #4 description) over the bolsters a challenge.   Lots of other details that need to be changed for B&O, too.

John King


Re: Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper

 

I have 2 undecorated 1932 cars from Atlas. 1 that matches up well for an SAL B-6 (except brake wheel) and the Viking roof, Dreadnaught end version that matches up well for the Nickel Plate. I have not found anything wrong with either.

Rich Christie


On Thursday, January 8, 2015 8:04 PM, "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Steve

I thought Atlas only one did one car with multiple ends and roofs ... I don't
own any examples of either. I guess I was thinking of the disparaging comments
on the rebuilt cars.

>Tim--Do you really mean the Atlas 1932 ARA cars or did you intend to cite the Atlas rebuilds, which were truly awful? I found no significant disparaging comments on the 1932 cars in the archives here, and I found them quite good, appreciating Atlas efforts to do multiple correct configurations. Some might have required revised brake equipment locations, but isn't that we do here?
>
>I agree about the BLI NYC steel cars; they are quite nice. Certainly they benefited from having Richard Hendrickson (and others here) involved.
>
>Wow. We sure have come a long way from scraping ladders and grabs off Athearn and MDC boxcars.
>
>Anxiously awaiting Brian's review of the hopper tonight. I have a B&O version waiting for weathering.
>
>Steve Hoxie
>Pensacola FL




Re: Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper

Tim O'Connor
 

Steve

I thought Atlas only one did one car with multiple ends and roofs ... I don't
own any examples of either. I guess I was thinking of the disparaging comments
on the rebuilt cars.

Tim--Do you really mean the Atlas 1932 ARA cars or did you intend to cite the Atlas rebuilds, which were truly awful? I found no significant disparaging comments on the 1932 cars in the archives here, and I found them quite good, appreciating Atlas efforts to do multiple correct configurations. Some might have required revised brake equipment locations, but isn't that we do here?

I agree about the BLI NYC steel cars; they are quite nice. Certainly they benefited from having Richard Hendrickson (and others here) involved.

Wow. We sure have come a long way from scraping ladders and grabs off Athearn and MDC boxcars.

Anxiously awaiting Brian's review of the hopper tonight. I have a B&O version waiting for weathering.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper

pennsylvania1954
 

Tim--Do you really mean the Atlas 1932 ARA cars or did you intend to cite the Atlas rebuilds, which were truly awful? I found no significant disparaging comments on the 1932 cars in the archives here, and I found them quite good, appreciating Atlas efforts to do multiple correct configurations. Some might have required revised brake equipment locations, but isn't that we do here?

I agree about the BLI NYC steel cars; they are quite nice. Certainly they benefited from having Richard Hendrickson (and others here) involved.

Wow. We sure have come a long way from scraping ladders and grabs off Athearn and MDC boxcars.

Anxiously awaiting Brian's review of the hopper tonight. I have a B&O version waiting for weathering.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL






Re: Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 1/8/2015 3:11 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
To each his own, as the Yiddish would say (hint: drek is German/Yiddish)

    Gee Tim you made me look it up.

[dirt, trash, and Yiddish drek, excrement, both from Middle High German drec, dung, filth]

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Broadway Limited 70-ton offset Quad hopper

Tim O'Connor
 

To each his own, as the Yiddish would say (hint: drek is German/Yiddish)

Sorry do not know what "drek" means but I like my Atlasundec Erie version just fine and thought the NYC car was/is an abortion.

Bill Welch

64001 - 64020 of 194730