Date   

SS 50' box car kit

ed_mines
 

Kit was BevBel and there's one for sale on e bay now.


Ed Mines


Re: longevity of truss-rod cabooses?

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Scott,

Keep in mind that a caboose (or any other car for that matter) might have had a steel underframe but still had truss rods as well. The WP had wooden cabooses in service until the mid-1950s with truss rods, but most had steel underframes (probably actually just a steel center sill). Some of these were their 1910 Haskell & Barkers cars, retrofitted in the 1920s, while others were WP-built clones that had steel underframes and truss rods when built. What killed them was not the truss rods, but a California law mandating flush toilets in all cabooses. A couple of these hung on into the late 1960s on WP's partly-owned subsidiary the Central California Traction Company (they were retrofitted with new toilets).

Care to see the equipment diagrams? Try this: http://www.wplives.com/diagrams/freight/1930/index.html . Some of the drawings do not show the truss rods, but let me assure you they were there. I have a number of Whittaker photos that show they were.

Also note the wooden boxcars in the top row. There are the cars we discussed last week from the Fillmore & Western. The F&W's came to them through the Sacramento Northern, but any cars with steel ends started out on the WP. The wooden-end cars of this type that survived were all built new for the SN and never fitted with steel ends. The same wooden end car diagram was also used in SN's records.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 1/19/15 11:28 AM, blindog@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Did any truss-rod underframe cabooses survive in service on Class One railroads until 1960? I seem to recall an ICC order about not shoving on wood underframe cabs after, what, 1940? But was there any ICC order mandating their retirement?

thanks
Scott Chatfield


Posted by:











Re: SS 50' box - looking for prototype

ed_mines
 

It's a foobie prototype; kit was offered in many roadnames including Erie.


Made by Q'craft, I recall it was offered under another brand name in a yellow box.


I bought many of these kits at Sal Marino (SMC) in Staten Island for cheap in the mid '80s as a source of Z bar braces and Erie decals.


Ed Mines




Re: Prototype Rails - Cocoa Beach Photos Posted

Andy Sperandeo
 

Thank you very much, Dave. – Andy


Re: SS 50' box - looking for prototype

Rich Gibson
 

Thanks to all for the help on this. It looks like some modifications to the model might be order....

Rich


Re: longevity of truss-rod cabooses?

Dennis Storzek
 

Here's the photo I wanted, as it shows the truss rods quite well:

SOO 99111 and GTW 5151699

 



The tapered crossbearers were steel pressings, and the bolsters were more of the same pressings tied together with top and bottom cover plates, but most cars had the ends of the bolsters left open. These were spaced out along 10" channel center sills to match the existing locations of the body bolsters and needle beams on the car to be converted, so while the cars had come from multiple builders over almost four decades, they all ended up with very similar underframes. Most cars kept their original wood platform sills, as did this one.

1965 and this still looks like traditional railroading. Archbar trucks, kerosine switchlamps in the yard (which were lit each night). The train appears to be a westbound transfer arriving at Schiller Park Yard in the Chicago suburbs; the flagman has just pulled the pin to cut the caboose off (note the air hoses haven't yet parted) and is winding down the hand brake. The conductor, meanwhile, is giving the engineer the "highball" to let him know they've successfully cut off, and he can continue to pull the rest of the train to the other end of the yard track. The east end switch job will eventually come get the caboose and take it to the caboose track, where supplies (water, ice, and coal if needed) will be replenished before the next trip.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Athearn container gondolas

Benjamin Hom
 

Mark Rickert wrote:
"I don't think anyone mentioned the RP Cyc #10 on the NYC cars and the the[i]r containers."

Because in this case it doesn't answer the mail. The cars covered are containers for handling LCL carried on cars specifically built for them, NOT the cement containers and converted gons in question. Read the article next time before referencing it.


Ben Hom


Re: Athearn container gondolas

caboose9792@...
 

I don't think anyone mentioned the RP cyc #10 on the NYC cars and the there containers.
Mark Rickert
 
In a message dated 1/16/2015 6:06:21 A.M. Central Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

I have a copy of the L.C.L. Container Corp “Diagrams and Descriptions L.C.L. Containers” dated 1/31/1956 [obtained from Smithsonian while researching LV container ops]

It lists these roads with containers: N.Y.C.; B&O; I.C.; M.P.L.; M.I.R.R.; L.V.; D.L.&W.; D&H. Pittsburgh Metallurgical Co. also listed

Types were air activated cement [round ones], drop bottom coke; drop bottom lime; controlled flow bulk; calcium carbide; drop bottom ferro silicon and portable refrigerator.

Rich Chapin

.


Sale of the rest of Richard Hendrickson's brass frieght cars

Tony Thompson
 

Just a quick reminder for those interested:
The deadline for bids will be noon, Pacific time, on Tuesday, January 20.

The list of items for sale was sent out on January 12. Anyone wishing a fresh copy, please contact me OFF LIST.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: interesting gondola load

Ernie Valentine
 

Another possibility is  insulators for high voltage power transmission lines.  The packing looks to be about the right size and type for high voltage insulators.

Ernie Valentine  Red Wing


Re: interesting gondola load

Tim O'Connor
 

Schuyler

Good guess, could be something like mufflers. I also thought they
might be stamped or extruded metal parts of some kind.

On closer inspection I see an ampersand -- & -- on that gondola, and
given the color, I wonder if that is a B&LE gondola.

Tim O

I don't really know, but if you enlarge the photo sufficiently, down at the
water's edge, there is one of the cardboard wrappers that's broken open, and
it looks like there is a gray-painted rectangular object in there that has a
tube out the end. Perhaps some sort of HVAC device? A muffler? They had
to be fairly beefy things as they are cardboard-wrapped, held closed with no
less than four steel straps. Looks like they were shipped on end.

Also interesting is the way the wreck must have moved some dirt around; the
truck of the wrecked car appears to be half-buried in the fill above the
left end of the car. Is this a NKP car? Took a pretty good bite into the
roof of the Cotton Belt box on the right.

Schuyler

Tim asks:

Any idea what this gondola load might have been?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371236096724

That B&O gondola 352409 is nearly brand new in this 1958 photo.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Car Weights

Andy Sperandeo
 

Just to make a couple of observations, sheet lead is not magnetic, and screws make an instant attachment with no solvent vapors or danger of shrinkage. So long – Andy 


Re: CNW 75194

Andy Carlson
 

Hi Schuyler-

I am sending a scan of the box car you screen captured in cocoa beach. It may offer more details? I am also enclosing an attached 40' PS-1 for your enjoyment.

I should be able to ship your USRA Andrews Tahoe truck later this week or next Monday.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



________________________________
From: "'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net [STMFC]" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 9:24 AM
Subject: [STMFC] CNW 75194




Can anyone direct me to a good photo of this car? It’s a single sheathed 40 ton box built 5-36, that appears very tall, and has single sheathed ends. I took (with permission) a photo off the screen in one of the Cocoa Beach presentations, and it’s a very interesting car. I doubt there’s a kit for it, but I might be pleasantly surprised.

One >could< build a model based on the photo of a photo I have, but it’d be chancy.

Schuyler


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: SS 50' box - looking for prototype

Eric Lombard
 

Well, I fat thumbed that post before it was done.
Here is a list of the series with wood ends. Many are SP system and the MILW cars you mention, Tim:

ERIE    68300    68324    25        1910    PSC
ERIE    68325    68399    75        1910    PSC
CRI&P    261125    261449    325    F3    1912    WSC
RIA&L    261000    261124    125        1912    WSC
CB&Q    45000    45499    500    XA-05    1913    H&B
CRI&P    261450    261949    500        1913    PUL
UP    85600    85999    400    A-40-01    1913    SSC
SP    61660    62059    400    A-40-01    1913    SSC
L&N    9800    9899    100        1917    ACF
SP    66800    67999    1200    A-50-06    1923    GAC
GH&SA    39660    39959    300    A-50-06    1923    GAC
SP    68000    68499    500    A-50-05    1923    GAC
GH&SA    58100    58199    100    A-50-07    1924    PUL
LW    58000    58099    100    A-50-07    1924    PUL
SP    68680    68879    200    A-50-07    1924    PUL
SP    68880    68979    100    A-50-07    1924    PUL

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Eric

I was going to suggest the Rock Island cars too but you beat me to it.
But as you imply if that was the intent, then they really screwed it up!
But the sides do strongly resemble the RI car -- which was available as
a resin kit from Rocket Express.

50 foot single sheathed auto cars with composite ends must have been rare
to begin with -- other than the SP A-50-6 and maybe the Milwaukee cars that
were suggested I just don't know of any.

Tim O'



Rich, I'm afraid I have to agree with Ben - there likely is no prototype. If someone comes up with on I would certainly like to know of it. In my box car database, which is based on thousands of references, there are no series that meet the structural characteristics you list. There are 163 series of single-wood-sheathed cars between 48-0 and 51-6 inside length, 68 are built new, the remainder are series that have been rebuilt or renumbered, or both. Of these only one has the posts and braces count and arrangement you list: RI 262450-262799, built 1930 by SSC. However, these cars have fishbelly center sills, Dreadnaught ends, a radial roof, and a 12-0 door opening. I am sending you a spreadsheet output from the database with all the present information I have on the 163 series. Perhaps, if you go through it you might find a compromise you can accept or a modification you are willing to undertake to the present model.

Sincerely,
Eric


I have an HO model that I assembled from a wood kit a number of years ago but never lettered because the decals disintegrated. Looking at it now, it's a nice car but it is clear from the 1955 ORER that the lettering diagrams provided with the kit do not correspond to prototype examples of this car. The kit was manufactured by Quality Craft Models and distributed by Bev-Bel. Unfortunately, I cannot find a picture of this model online to provide a link to, so I will try to describe the car below:

- External dimensions: length 51', height rails to top of roofwalk 15', width 10'

- Single sheathed with 'z' braces; 2 diagonals left of doors, 3 to right; 45 degree corner braces at the top and bottom of the end side panels

- 1 1/2 doors (6.5' and 4.5' width);Â staggered; wood doors with a horizontal brace approx! imately mid-height

- composite ends with braces in a 'V' configuration

- Hutchins Dry lading roof

- straight center sill underframe

- K-style brakes with brake wheel mounted on a vertical shaft.

Overall, the car looks very much like a 50' version of the of the MILW 40' auto boxes (592025-593024) shown on pg. 99 of the Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Vol. 1.

I'd appreciate any suggestions on a reasonable prototype for this car along with any pointers to photos and/or decal sources. The obvious first question is whether or not the MILW had 50' auto boxes of this style. Thanks in advance for any help.

Rich Gibson

Tulsa, OK



Re: SS 50' box - looking for prototype

Eric Lombard
 

I tally 16 series of ~50' SS XA built new with wood ends between 1910 and 1924. Many had ends with posts and braces in the |\||/| pattern, but not all. All had door openings of around ~10' most were "door and a half" but some had equal-sized doors of approx 5-5. All had sides with Howe trusses. All but the first two series had 7 posts per side, the two 1910 series for the Erie had five. They were formidable monsters for their time ;-)

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Eric

I was going to suggest the Rock Island cars too but you beat me to it.
But as you imply if that was the intent, then they really screwed it up!
But the sides do strongly resemble the RI car -- which was available as
a resin kit from Rocket Express.

50 foot single sheathed auto cars with composite ends must have been rare
to begin with -- other than the SP A-50-6 and maybe the Milwaukee cars that
were suggested I just don't know of any.

Tim O'



Rich, I'm afraid I have to agree with Ben - there likely is no prototype. If someone comes up with on I would certainly like to know of it. In my box car database, which is based on thousands of references, there are no series that meet the structural characteristics you list. There are 163 series of single-wood-sheathed cars between 48-0 and 51-6 inside length, 68 are built new, the remainder are series that have been rebuilt or renumbered, or both. Of these only one has the posts and braces count and arrangement you list: RI 262450-262799, built 1930 by SSC. However, these cars have fishbelly center sills, Dreadnaught ends, a radial roof, and a 12-0 door opening. I am sending you a spreadsheet output from the database with all the present information I have on the 163 series. Perhaps, if you go through it you might find a compromise you can accept or a modification you are willing to undertake to the present model.

Sincerely,
Eric


I have an HO model that I assembled from a wood kit a number of years ago but never lettered because the decals disintegrated. Looking at it now, it's a nice car but it is clear from the 1955 ORER that the lettering diagrams provided with the kit do not correspond to prototype examples of this car. The kit was manufactured by Quality Craft Models and distributed by Bev-Bel. Unfortunately, I cannot find a picture of this model online to provide a link to, so I will try to describe the car below:

- External dimensions: length 51', height rails to top of roofwalk 15', width 10'

- Single sheathed with 'z' braces; 2 diagonals left of doors, 3 to right; 45 degree corner braces at the top and bottom of the end side panels

- 1 1/2 doors (6.5' and 4.5' width);Â staggered; wood doors with a horizontal brace approx! imately mid-height

- composite ends with braces in a 'V' configuration

- Hutchins Dry lading roof

- straight center sill underframe

- K-style brakes with brake wheel mounted on a vertical shaft.

Overall, the car looks very much like a 50' version of the of the MILW 40' auto boxes (592025-593024) shown on pg. 99 of the Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Vol. 1.

I'd appreciate any suggestions on a reasonable prototype for this car along with any pointers to photos and/or decal sources. The obvious first question is whether or not the MILW had 50' auto boxes of this style. Thanks in advance for any help.

Rich Gibson

Tulsa, OK



CNW 75194

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Can anyone direct me to a good photo of this car?  It’s a single sheathed 40 ton box built 5-36, that appears very tall, and has single sheathed ends.  I took (with permission) a photo off the screen in one of the Cocoa Beach presentations, and it’s a very interesting car.  I doubt there’s a kit for it, but I might be pleasantly surprised.

 

One >could< build a model based on the photo of a photo I have, but it’d be chancy.

 

Schuyler


Re: longevity of truss-rod cabooses?

Dennis Storzek
 

The Soo Line retired its last wood cabooses with truss rod underframes in the early 1980's, although they may have been out of service since the late 70's. Their last use was transfer cabooses in the twin cities and Chicago area, and with their last rebuilding, many had their cupolas entirely sheathed in plywood, so while the cupola was still there, it had no windows. However, this was the entire caboose fleet until the International Car Co. "wide vision" cars began arriving in the mid 60's.

IIRC, the ICC required steel underframes on all cabooses by 1928, although I'm not sure if that deadline was extended. The Soo complied, fitting their entire fleet of wood caboose cars with steel underframes in the early twenties. They essentially built new steel center sills, body bolsters and crossbearers, cleaned everything below the sills off the existing cars, and set them on the new frames. Since the truss rods also served to hold the end sills on the original frame, they were retained, with the two pairs of crossbearers properly located to serve as needle beams. The inner truss rods typically sat in short saddle castings riveted directly to the crossbearer cover plates, while longer queenposts were cast with a mounting flange that matched the angle of the lower surface of the pressed steel crossbearer. As far as I can tell, thy served no purpose on the rebuilt car (the short cars certainly didn't need the truss to support the middle) and simply held the ends on the body. It appears that the ICC order simply wanted steel sills of adequate proportion, and the fact that were these additional truss rods was not an issue.

Dennis Storzek


Re: longevity of truss-rod cabooses?

Rich Gibson
 


Re: drop runr ladders - a better way?

Jim Betz
 

Robert,

I rarely ever drill #80 holes any more ... just for the reasons
you note and a few of my own. I can't remember the last
time I put a #80 in a pin vise!

My "minimum drill size" is #78. When drilling any hole that
will have something installed in them I go larger by 1 or 2
numbers. It makes the parts -fit- a lot easier. Even if they
are 'loose'.

Then I will use either a very small amount of Tenax or
Krystal Klear as the adhesive. Which melts and bonds
to the shape in the case of Tenax or fills in the gap in
the case of KK. When using Tenax I pre-assemble and
apply the glue after. When using KK I put the KK in the
hole(s) and put the part in after.

The finished model will be

"what you wanted/envisioned it to look like all along" ...

- YMMV ... Jim


Re: interesting gondola load

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I don't really know, but if you enlarge the photo sufficiently, down at the
water's edge, there is one of the cardboard wrappers that's broken open, and
it looks like there is a gray-painted rectangular object in there that has a
tube out the end. Perhaps some sort of HVAC device? A muffler? They had
to be fairly beefy things as they are cardboard-wrapped, held closed with no
less than four steel straps. Looks like they were shipped on end.



Also interesting is the way the wreck must have moved some dirt around; the
truck of the wrecked car appears to be half-buried in the fill above the
left end of the car. Is this a NKP car? Took a pretty good bite into the
roof of the Cotton Belt box on the right.



Schuyler





Tim asks:

Any idea what this gondola load might have been?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371236096724

That B&O gondola 352409 is nearly brand new in this 1958 photo.

Tim O'Connor

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