Date   

Re: longevity of truss-rod cabooses?

Dennis Storzek
 

The Soo Line retired its last wood cabooses with truss rod underframes in the early 1980's, although they may have been out of service since the late 70's. Their last use was transfer cabooses in the twin cities and Chicago area, and with their last rebuilding, many had their cupolas entirely sheathed in plywood, so while the cupola was still there, it had no windows. However, this was the entire caboose fleet until the International Car Co. "wide vision" cars began arriving in the mid 60's.

IIRC, the ICC required steel underframes on all cabooses by 1928, although I'm not sure if that deadline was extended. The Soo complied, fitting their entire fleet of wood caboose cars with steel underframes in the early twenties. They essentially built new steel center sills, body bolsters and crossbearers, cleaned everything below the sills off the existing cars, and set them on the new frames. Since the truss rods also served to hold the end sills on the original frame, they were retained, with the two pairs of crossbearers properly located to serve as needle beams. The inner truss rods typically sat in short saddle castings riveted directly to the crossbearer cover plates, while longer queenposts were cast with a mounting flange that matched the angle of the lower surface of the pressed steel crossbearer. As far as I can tell, thy served no purpose on the rebuilt car (the short cars certainly didn't need the truss to support the middle) and simply held the ends on the body. It appears that the ICC order simply wanted steel sills of adequate proportion, and the fact that were these additional truss rods was not an issue.

Dennis Storzek


Re: longevity of truss-rod cabooses?

Rich Gibson
 


Re: drop runr ladders - a better way?

Jim Betz
 

Robert,

I rarely ever drill #80 holes any more ... just for the reasons
you note and a few of my own. I can't remember the last
time I put a #80 in a pin vise!

My "minimum drill size" is #78. When drilling any hole that
will have something installed in them I go larger by 1 or 2
numbers. It makes the parts -fit- a lot easier. Even if they
are 'loose'.

Then I will use either a very small amount of Tenax or
Krystal Klear as the adhesive. Which melts and bonds
to the shape in the case of Tenax or fills in the gap in
the case of KK. When using Tenax I pre-assemble and
apply the glue after. When using KK I put the KK in the
hole(s) and put the part in after.

The finished model will be

"what you wanted/envisioned it to look like all along" ...

- YMMV ... Jim


Re: interesting gondola load

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I don't really know, but if you enlarge the photo sufficiently, down at the
water's edge, there is one of the cardboard wrappers that's broken open, and
it looks like there is a gray-painted rectangular object in there that has a
tube out the end. Perhaps some sort of HVAC device? A muffler? They had
to be fairly beefy things as they are cardboard-wrapped, held closed with no
less than four steel straps. Looks like they were shipped on end.



Also interesting is the way the wreck must have moved some dirt around; the
truck of the wrecked car appears to be half-buried in the fill above the
left end of the car. Is this a NKP car? Took a pretty good bite into the
roof of the Cotton Belt box on the right.



Schuyler





Tim asks:

Any idea what this gondola load might have been?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371236096724

That B&O gondola 352409 is nearly brand new in this 1958 photo.

Tim O'Connor


Re: SS 50' box - looking for prototype

Tim O'Connor
 

Eric

I was going to suggest the Rock Island cars too but you beat me to it.
But as you imply if that was the intent, then they really screwed it up!
But the sides do strongly resemble the RI car -- which was available as
a resin kit from Rocket Express.

50 foot single sheathed auto cars with composite ends must have been rare
to begin with -- other than the SP A-50-6 and maybe the Milwaukee cars that
were suggested I just don't know of any.

Tim O'



Rich, I'm afraid I have to agree with Ben - there likely is no prototype. If someone comes up with on I would certainly like to know of it. In my box car database, which is based on thousands of references, there are no series that meet the structural characteristics you list. There are 163 series of single-wood-sheathed cars between 48-0 and 51-6 inside length, 68 are built new, the remainder are series that have been rebuilt or renumbered, or both. Of these only one has the posts and braces count and arrangement you list: RI 262450-262799, built 1930 by SSC. However, these cars have fishbelly center sills, Dreadnaught ends, a radial roof, and a 12-0 door opening. I am sending you a spreadsheet output from the database with all the present information I have on the 163 series. Perhaps, if you go through it you might find a compromise you can accept or a modification you are willing to undertake to the present model.

Sincerely,
Eric


I have an HO model that I assembled from a wood kit a number of years ago but never lettered because the decals disintegrated. Looking at it now, it's a nice car but it is clear from the 1955 ORER that the lettering diagrams provided with the kit do not correspond to prototype examples of this car. The kit was manufactured by Quality Craft Models and distributed by Bev-Bel. Unfortunately, I cannot find a picture of this model online to provide a link to, so I will try to describe the car below:

- External dimensions: length 51', height rails to top of roofwalk 15', width 10'

- Single sheathed with 'z' braces; 2 diagonals left of doors, 3 to right; 45 degree corner braces at the top and bottom of the end side panels

- 1 1/2 doors (6.5' and 4.5' width);� staggered; wood doors with a horizontal brace approx! imately mid-height

- composite ends with braces in a 'V' configuration

- Hutchins Dry lading roof

- straight center sill underframe

- K-style brakes with brake wheel mounted on a vertical shaft.

Overall, the car looks very much like a 50' version of the of the MILW 40' auto boxes (592025-593024) shown on pg. 99 of the Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Vol. 1.

I'd appreciate any suggestions on a reasonable prototype for this car along with any pointers to photos and/or decal sources. The obvious first question is whether or not the MILW had 50' auto boxes of this style. Thanks in advance for any help.

Rich Gibson

Tulsa, OK


Re: drop rung ladders - a better way?

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Greg says I have a better way . . .

 

Well, he had to put up with my whining while I did them, so at least he’s heard me about this challenge.  By the way, the side parts of ladders are stiles, not styles.

 

For the cars side ladders, I drew a line down the side at the “right location” for the left side of the ladder.  Then, after calculating the distance between the rungs (several times until I got the same answer . . . 8^/ ) I also used a divider to mark off the locations.  The dividers I used have a VERY sharp point on one side, and I made a tiny dimple at that point.  Then I used a straight pin to make that a bit deeper, then the No. 80 drill.  I did the Greg Martin trick of cutting off (in my case) the right hand leg of the rung by putting it through a hole in a piece of .030” styrene, and then pressing the styrene down so the legs were extended as far through the styrene as possible ( for uniformity).  Flush cut nippers did the trick.

 

After putting the grabs in, I used thick ACC on the inside of the car.  NEXT time, I will do something more: I’ll bend the grabs inside the car, and use 5 minute epoxy inside so as to gain a mechanical advantage that will increase the likelihood that the grabs will not rotate.  You can guess why I thought about this . . .

 

The ends . . . (sigh) . . . this was not easy.  I had braced the bulkhead inside with some .040” square styrene, so to drill through for even one side was a challenge, but I did, mostly, dill through for them.  A few, I just drilled in far enough to be able to have one leg IN the end, and used ACC to glue it in.  I glued the 1x2 styrene strip for the corner stile on, then allowed the rungs to tell me where the stile closer to the centerline should be.  The true pisser was when I managed to break a drill bit in the corner stile, close enough to the surface that there was NFW I could get it out.  That one got it’s right leg drilled in and the left one cut off.

 

All in all, these are just miserable things to have to make, IMHO.  BTW, I managed to run out of commercial drop grabs, so had to make about half the grabs on the model from wire.  Which reminds me I should order some more.

 

The end ladders have me thinking that maybe these could be printed parts, especially after seeing Jack Burgess’ superb clinic at Cocoa.  I should look into this on my other list (of interest to this audience) the 3DSTFC list.  I may be the owner, but I am NOT an expert at it, not at all, but still . . .

 

Schuyler

 

 

From: TGREGMRTN

Subject: Re: [STMFC] drop run ladders - a better way?

 

Rob,

 

I will give you my solution and Craig Zeni has another and Schuyler Larrabee has another.

 

I used a jig to create the holes as they need to be the same on the sides as the ends. For the styles I used a thicker Aluminum foil. This left me with a nice thin style. The real secret is to NOT drill holes for both sides of the drop grabs, dill only one and clip the run shot to match the opposing side. This eliminates the possibility of the grabs from becoming crooked.

 

I am sure there are other solutions and Schuyler did use styrene.

 

 

Greg Martin

 

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

 

In a message dated 1/18/2015 4:43:59 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:

 

I’m slowly working through the 2014 Shake and Take project and have come up against the end ladders.   I’m looking for suggestions others have tried to improve the looks of the finished product.  Mine come out looking like the years have service included a couple of collisions.

 

The approach I’ve tried is to mark the ladder styles on a sheet of .015” thick styrene, including both vertical and horizontal centre lines for each hole to be drilled.  Then use a pin to create a dimple at each +, and drill through with an #80 bit.  I find it hard to create a dimple in the material at the exact correct spot,  so my drilled holes are imperfect.  The pin is thick enough and creates enough shadow that it looks like it is on the +, but it is imprecise.

 

Is there a better idea?  Maybe a jig that is practical?

 

Rob Kirkham

 

 

 

 


interesting gondola load

Tim O'Connor
 

Anys idea what this gondola load might have been?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371236096724

That B&O gondola 352409 is nearly brand new in this 1958 photo.

Tim O'Connor


Re: SS 50' box - looking for prototype

Eric Lombard
 

Rich, I'm afraid I have to agree with Ben - there likely is no prototype. If someone comes up with on I would certainly like to know of it. In my box car database, which is based on thousands of references, there are no series that meet the structural characteristics you list. There are 163 series of single-wood-sheathed cars between 48-0 and 51-6 inside length, 68 are built new, the remainder are series that have been rebuilt or renumbered, or both. Of these only one has the posts and braces count and arrangement you list: RI 262450-262799, built 1930 by SSC. However, these cars have fishbelly center sills, Dreadnaught ends, a radial roof, and a 12-0 door opening. I am sending you a spreadsheet output from the database with all the present information I have on the 163 series. Perhaps, if you go through it you might find a compromise you can accept or a modification you are willing to undertake to the present model.

Sincerely,
Eric

On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 8:48 AM, richgibson89@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

All,


I have an HO model that I assembled from a wood kit a number of years ago but never lettered because the decals disintegrated. Looking at it now, it's a nice car but it is clear from the 1955 ORER that the lettering diagrams provided with the kit do not correspond to prototype examples of this car. The kit was manufactured by Quality Craft Models and distributed by Bev-Bel. Unfortunately, I cannot find a picture of this model online to provide a link to, so I will try to describe the car below:

- External dimensions: length 51', height rails to top of roofwalk 15', width 10'

- Single sheathed with 'z' braces; 2 diagonals left of doors, 3 to right; 45 degree corner braces at the top and bottom of the end side panels

- 1 1/2 doors (6.5' and 4.5' width); staggered; wood doors with a horizontal brace approx! imately mid-height

- composite ends with braces in a 'V' configuration

- Hutchins Dry lading roof

- straight center sill underframe

- K-style brakes with brake wheel mounted on a vertical shaft.

Overall, the car looks very much like a 50' version of the of the MILW 40' auto boxes (592025-593024) shown on pg. 99 of the Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Vol. 1.


I'd appreciate any suggestions on a reasonable prototype for this car along with any pointers to photos and/or decal sources. The obvious first question is whether or not the MILW had 50' auto boxes of this style. Thanks in advance for any help.


Rich Gibson

Tulsa, OK



longevity of truss-rod cabooses?

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Did any truss-rod underframe cabooses survive in service on Class One railroads until 1960? I seem to recall an ICC order about not shoving on wood underframe cabs after, what, 1940? But was there any ICC order mandating their retirement?

thanks
Scott Chatfield


Re: SS 50' box - looking for prototype

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 

RDG had no 50' outside steel truss box cars. The only cars remotely similar were the USRA 40' cars.
 
Eric N.
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: SS 50' box - looking for prototype

 

Rich Gibson wrote:

"The braces on the model form a Howe truss.

This is not the Northeastern SP model, as far as I can tell. It does not have a fishbelly underframe and the side bracing pattern is very different from the A-50-6. The instructions show no drawings of an SP car, only Reading, WM, NYC, PRR, D&H. N&W....all of which seem to be incorrect, at least for the numbers shown."

Definitely a Quality Craft model, and you're right about the schemes on the instruction sheet - they're all bogus.
http://www.hoseeker.net/qualitycraft/qualitycraftIobboxcarpg1.jpg
http://www.hoseeker.net/qualitycraft/qualitycraftIobboxcarpg2.jpg

I'm having difficulty finding prototypes with SS ends, so I'm skeptical regarding a prototype for this model. It appears to a their 40 ft MILW SS boxcar stretched to 50 ft.

See Richard Hendrickson's article in the July 1995 and July 1996 issues of Railmodel Journal for more information.
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/443/32370/july-1995-page-16
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/407/29808/july-1996-page-14

(Part of the first article and all of the second article's images are coming up - it looks like there's partial restoration of the Trainlife website.)

Ben Hom


Re: SS 50' box - looking for prototype

Benjamin Hom
 

Rich Gibson wrote:



"The braces on the model form a Howe truss.

This is not the Northeastern SP model, as far as I can tell. It does not have a fishbelly underframe and the side bracing pattern is very different from the A-50-6. The instructions show no drawings of an SP car, only Reading, WM, NYC, PRR, D&H. N&W....all of which seem to be incorrect, at least for the numbers shown."

Definitely a Quality Craft model, and you're right about the schemes on the instruction sheet - they're all bogus.
http://www.hoseeker.net/qualitycraft/qualitycraftIobboxcarpg1.jpg
http://www.hoseeker.net/qualitycraft/qualitycraftIobboxcarpg2.jpg

I'm having difficulty finding prototypes with SS ends, so I'm skeptical regarding a prototype for this model. It appears to a their 40 ft MILW SS boxcar stretched to 50 ft.

See Richard Hendrickson's article in the July 1995 and July 1996 issues of Railmodel Journal for more information.
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/443/32370/july-1995-page-16
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/407/29808/july-1996-page-14

(Part of the first article and all of the second article's images are coming up - it looks like there's partial restoration of the Trainlife website.)


Ben Hom


Re: SS 50' box - looking for prototype

Dennis Storzek
 

Is this the kit with cast soft metal side posts and braces? If so, it's a Quality Craft kit, although I forget the intended prototype.

Dennis Storzek


Re: SS 50' box - looking for prototype

Rich Gibson
 


The braces on the model form a Howe truss.

 

This is not the Northeastern SP model, as far as I can tell. It does not have a fishbelly underframe and the side bracing pattern is very different from the A-50-6. The instructions show no drawings of an SP car, only Reading, WM, NYC, PRR, D&H. N&W....all of which seem to be incorrect, at least for the numbers shown.

 

Rich Gibson


Re: Contact from Athearn.com

Tim O'Connor
 


In regards to the Athearn 65 foot mill gondola: I wrote to Athearn and
asked them about it, and they said that sold out models are listed under
"retired" models but this does NOT mean the cars will not be produced in
the future. The last run of the gondolas, only a year ago, SOLD OUT so I
suspect there will be a future run.

http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=65%27+Gondola+RTR&CatID=THRF&OA=True

Tim O'Connor


Re: Ace Hardware's "Two-Ton Epoxy"

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

³Marinetex² is another good one. It can even be drilled and tapped; and not
just 2-56: we¹re talking 1/4-20 and larger.


Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 4:45 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Ace Hardware's "Two-Ton Epoxy"







Over the years after several frustrating attempts to use Epoxy to attach
vulnerable parts, Andy Carlson alerted me to Ace Hardware's "Two-Ton Epoxy."
Over the past several years I have never has a problem with this product and
used it today to attach a "Triple Valve Protective Plate" to a VGN SS boxcar
and fill in the Coupler Screw holes on an underframe that I miss-drilled.
Great stuff, never fails to harden, it is slow working allowing plenty of
time to work. I don't use anything labeled "Fast" or "Quick" except for CA.



I highly recommend this product! Thank you Andy!



Bill Welch


Devcon Epoxy

Bill Welch
 

For those interested here is the information on the display card etc for the product I have been using: The small # on the upper righthand side of the packaging is 31345 and it is called "Devcon Home 2 Ton Epoxy." The dispenser notes that it is "Clear."


Their website is: www.DevconHome.com

 

Bill Welch


Re: Kadee roofwalks

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Its a thought cheers Chad.
Paul Doggett UK



Sent from Samsung mobile

"chadboas@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

I have used short pieces of Evergreen 3/32 tube and press fit them onto the tab. I don't glue them so there wont be any bleed thru.

Chad Boas


Re: Kadee roofwalks

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Thanks Rob
Paul Doggett UK

Sent from Samsung mobile

"robev1630@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

I have used Aileens flexible craft glue for all my roofwalks, Kadee, and etched. I also use it on my metal weights.

 

Sincerely,

Rob Manley

Midwest Mod-U-Trak

"Better modeling through personal embarassment"

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 9:13 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Kadee roofwalks

 

 

Cheers 

           

              Chuck i have canopy cement will give it a go.

 

Paul Doggett UK

 

 

 

 

Sent from Samsung mobile


"RUTLANDRS@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Paul,

 

    In the past, barge cement and canopy glue have been suggested.

 

Chuck Hladik

 

In a message dated 1/18/2015 9:56:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:

 

Apart from drilling holes in the car roof has anyone any suggestions for fixing Kadee roof walks to a plastic car roof.

Thanks in advance.

Paul Doggett UK

 

 

 

 

Sent from Samsung mobile


Re: SS 50' box - looking for prototype

Allan Smith
 

I think the car you are describing is the Northeastern Scale Models SP 50' A-50-5-6 model. The instructions show car 67099 which is a A-50-6 car in the series 66800-67999. Photos are on pages 58-65 of Tony's book Volume 3, SP Freight Cars

Al Smith Sonora CA


Cocoa Beach a Very Special Thanks from the Shake N Take Group

Greg Martin
 

Group
 
Let me thank the folks that made this project a success. These folks have worked hard behind the scenes and absolutely deserve recognition.
This project started with the help of Richard Hendrickson who supplied photos and information to start the ball rolling and was a great inspiration; his untimely passing has been hard for us all. You'll never realize how much input he has offered from the very beginning of these projects. This project was our last together from the start to what is now finished. He provided me with other future projects but in his absence of standing over me in his flight suite with his hands in his pockets looking down at the data that he had provided in the “Room of all Knowledge” while I sat at the table digesting all he had acquired and I can truly say, “School was in...” dare I say I feel a bit lost.
 
God Speed Richard I miss you immensely, every day...
Steve Hile for his research into and the acquisition of such valuable data on the Rock Island series 161000 to 161349 40-foot
Automobile Boxcars. He has done a tremendous amount of work on this project. Also his contribution of the decals that we need to make this project complete.
 
Ed Hawkins for his quiet insight and helpful research that kept the very details of this project moving forward, thank you Ed. 

Jim Singer who as always manages my efforts on these project as well a the miscellaneous parts that make the projects doable. He pushes me, he is my perpetual force, although I know he could just hurt me at times.

Archer Rivets who contributes the decal rivet to make this project complete. Thank you very much Woody and Jen!
A very special thanks to Craig Walker and Athearn Trains who was so kind to provide the kits to make this possible, you will never realize how much this does for the modeler. Thanks Craig from the bottom of my heart.

Thanks to Bill McClung with InterMountain Railway for the donations of the detail sprues to complete our kits, it was the icing on the cake for these modelers.
 
A great thanks to Dennis Storzek, who has always been there countless times, involved in every SHAKE N TAKE so far with parts and input that have helped me pull off these projects, often at the last minute...

A thanks has to go out to Schuyler Larrabee who is the owner, and moderator, on his SHAKE_N_TAKE Yahoo Group list as well as editor of these projects , he keeps me square, he is my Jimny Cricket.
 
Thanks to Aaron Gjermundson who for the second year in a row has provided the group with resin parts from my masters, as imperfect as they are...

And thanks to all those members of this little niche group who stumbles through my handout and manages to complete these projects and return them complete or nearly so year after year, you know who you are. Also to those that can't attend but elect to follow along in Cyber Session.

And to Mike Brock (aka Boss) and Prototype Rails 2015 who for the past fifteen years has provided a forum for our SHAKE_N_TAKE projects and puts up with all my silly notions.

Next Year will be special and in order to honor Richard Hendrickson again we are going to have a special project along with our SHAKE N TAKE, it will be a tribute build of Richard's West Rails conversion kits from the 1980's a man long ahead of his time. Space for this will be extremely limited. We will welcome all who wish to sit in and follow along. We may have aftermarket part available for this but that is not certain at this point.
Thanks to all who see SHAKE N TAKE as silly little way to bring model building back to the Railroad Modelers.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

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