Date   

Re: painted, wood RTR cars

Jim Williams <wwww5960@...>
 

There was Pacific Traction {wood/painted/lettered/many roads) freight cars, produced  I believe by a doctor, as patient therapy, in San Diego......The cars were less trucks and couplers and I have a bunch still in their plastic bag..........They did both standard and narrow gauge cars and primarily distributed on the west coast and very nice for the 70's..........Once/twice a year I see some on ebay......Best, Jim W.


On Tuesday, January 20, 2015 11:51 AM, "'Paul Koehler' koehlers@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Gary:
 
You might be thinking about “Pacific HO” out of San Diego they did produce wood cars like you describe that we very close to an SP 1 ½ single sheathed boxcar.  My recollection was that you had to decal them yourself.
 
Paul C. Koehler
 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 11:14 AM
To: stmfc
Subject: [STMFC] painted, wood RTR cars
 
 
I dimly recall that a company advertised in Model Railroader early in the 1970s as selling RTR (no trucks) painted and lettered wood freight cars.  Does anyone recall the name of the company and more importantly, if they every produced any such cars?  I was in college at the time and could not determine a way that they could make money. 
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock



Re: Car Weights

 

I got 0.015625 pounds, but who¹s counting?

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 1:54 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Car Weights








Arved stick to photography, you're a little weak in arithmetic... :-)

Try 500,000 lbs divided by 30,000,000 -- that's 1/4 oz per car per year, or
an
average of one stick-on weight per car. Which is probably where they came up
with
that number in the first place!

At 1/20/2015 02:43 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
At least as long as lead-acid batteries remain popular, I'd say.

It's been pointed out that there are roughly 30 million cars registered in
California. Divided by 500,000 lbs of lead, that means the average car looses 60
lbs. of lead each year. Being an average, some more, and some less. It doesn't
seem like you have to buy lead at all. Just wander down the streets, and you're
bound to find plenty.

At least in California.

Arved Grass


Re: Car Weights

Tim O'Connor
 

Arved stick to photography, you're a little weak in arithmetic... :-)

Try 500,000 lbs divided by 30,000,000 -- that's 1/4 oz per car per year, or an
average of one stick-on weight per car. Which is probably where they came up with
that number in the first place!

At 1/20/2015 02:43 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
At least as long as lead-acid batteries remain popular, I'd say.

It's been pointed out that there are roughly 30 million cars registered in California. Divided by 500,000 lbs of lead, that means the average car looses 60 lbs. of lead each year. Being an average, some more, and some less. It doesn't seem like you have to buy lead at all. Just wander down the streets, and you're bound to find plenty.

At least in California.

Arved Grass


Re: painted, wood RTR cars

Paul Koehler
 

Gary:

 

You might be thinking about “Pacific HO” out of San Diego they did produce wood cars like you describe that we very close to an SP 1 ½ single sheathed boxcar.  My recollection was that you had to decal them yourself.

 

Paul C. Koehler

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 11:14 AM
To: stmfc
Subject: [STMFC] painted, wood RTR cars

 

 

I dimly recall that a company advertised in Model Railroader early in the 1970s as selling RTR (no trucks) painted and lettered wood freight cars.  Does anyone recall the name of the company and more importantly, if they every produced any such cars?  I was in college at the time and could not determine a way that they could make money. 

 

gary laakso

south of Mike Brock


Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Re: Container gons from NKP (UNCLASSIFIED)

Tim O'Connor
 

My 2 cents again.

Those Youngstown bulk containers (as modeled by Walthers) take up the full width
of the gondola if you load them crosswise. If you load them lengthwise, you can
get 2 abreast.

In the car on the LEFT in this photo, all of the containers are the same size. But
in the car on the RIGHT the singleton containers appear to be shorter in height and
width. The fact that they are turned 90 degrees shows this -- they would be hard up
against the car sides if they were full size.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2815/12297246976_99acb1d2b6_h.jpg

I am of the opinion that all these containers are the same size and shape. In the car on the right you can see containers next to each other, crosswise and lengthwise. It's clear to me that the width is about 2/3 the length. Furthermore it's clear that containers are narrow enough to fit two across the width of the gon. And as you can see from the gon on the left, there is actually room in the gon for 12 containers. But apparently with the material being loaded, the weight is such that a single gon is rated to carry only 11 containers. So put 4 over each truck, to minimize stress on the gon body,stacked as closely as possible, that is paired paired side-by-side. Then put 3 more in the middle. How you put the three in the middle is optional. put them more or less evenly spaced but crosswise, like the car on the right, or put them as if you were loading 12, except put the last one centered, like the car on the left.

The foreshortening from the photo is about what you would expect at this angle. You can get more confidence about this by looking at the first crosswise container next to the 2nd lengthwise pair (L to R) in the right car. You can see that the length of the crosswise container is a little less than the combined widths of the two containers next to it. That matches the view of the width being 2/3 the length.

Tom Hayden


Re: Car Weights

arved_grass
 

At least as long as lead-acid batteries remain popular, I'd say.

It's been pointed out that there are roughly 30 million cars registered in California. Divided by 500,000 lbs of lead, that means the average car looses 60 lbs. of lead each year. Being an average, some more, and some less. It doesn't seem like you have to buy lead at all. Just wander down the streets, and you're bound to find plenty.

At least in California.

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@yahoo.com or Arved@I-Do-Photography.com
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 1/20/15, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@comcast.net [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Car Weights
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2015, 2:06 PM

I expect supplies will be plentiful for a long time -- at
least for my lifetime.

Even 500,000 lbs is barely 1/1000th of US lead
production.


Re: Car Weights

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 1/20/2015 11:06 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
the group contended that wheel weights falling off vehicles release 500,000 pounds of lead each year into the environment in California.

    Good thing they are not used in freight cars or no trains would be running.  And as for the way back machine we are all dead as the lead falling off freight cars in the 20/30/40's have already killed us all.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


50 ft SS box cars

ed_mines
 

Few if any didn't have fishbelly underframes and I cant't think of any 50 ft SS box cars that had composite ends except SP.


The kit was a hybrid of Qcraft's 1974 40 ft MILW SS, door and a half box car & the Ambroid/Northeastern SP 50 ft  SS door and a half box car. Plans for the MILW car (or a similar one) appeared in the 1925 or 1931CBC.


Bev Bel  wood metal kits also included PS1 40 ft box cars with wooden roof walks (needed those, right?) & (I think) 2 bay hoppers. 


Ed Mines


Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Re: Container gons from NKP (UNCLASSIFIED)

hayden_tom@...
 

I am of the opinion that all these containers are the same size and shape. In the car on the right you can see containers next to each other, crosswise and lengthwise. It's clear to me that the width is about 2/3 the length. Furthermore it's clear that containers are narrow enough to fit two across the width of the gon. And as you can see from the gon on the left, there is actually room in the gon for 12 containers. But apparently with the material being loaded, the weight is such that a single gon is rated to carry only 11 containers. So put 4 over each truck, to minimize stress on the gon body,stacked as closely as possible, that is paired paired side-by-side. Then put 3 more in the middle. How you put the three in the middle is optional. put them more or less evenly spaced but crosswise, like the car on the right, or put them as if you were loading 12, except put the last one centered, like the car on the left. 

The foreshortening from the photo is about what you would expect at this angle. You can get more confidence about this by looking at the first crosswise container next to the 2nd lengthwise pair (L to R) in the right car. You can see that the length of the crosswise container is a little less than the combined widths of the two containers next to it. That matches the view of the width being 2/3 the length. 

Tom Hayden


painted, wood RTR cars

gary laakso
 

I dimly recall that a company advertised in Model Railroader early in the 1970s as selling RTR (no trucks) painted and lettered wood freight cars.  Does anyone recall the name of the company and more importantly, if they every produced any such cars?  I was in college at the time and could not determine a way that they could make money. 
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock


Re: Bananas

Tom Madden
 

Mike wrote:

> , if we allowed hundreds of messages about bananas

> on the STMFC, surely we could allow at least some

> discussion  regarding the locomotives that pull the

> cars containing said bananas...


The adventure continues. Posted this morning on Trainorders.com by Eugene Crowner:

"Back in the 1950s on the U.P. there was a banana messenger out of Los Angeles that rode in the caboose with the crew. Presumably he accompanied the bananas at least as far as Salt Lake City. The bananas were destined for Utah and Idaho."


I was aware of attendants riding poultry cars, but banana attendants? On the UP??


Just more Armour Yellow, I suppose.


Tom Madden


Re: Car Weights

Tim O'Connor
 

I expect supplies will be plentiful for a long time -- at least for my lifetime.
Even 500,000 lbs is barely 1/1000th of US lead production.

Not just California:

"Lead wheel weights have been under attack for several years by environmentalists. They were banned by the European Union in 2005 and are being phased out in Japan and South Korea. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is sponsoring a voluntary initiative to reduce the use of lead wheel weights but has not banned them." (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/aug/21/business/fi-wheels21)

This seems inflated to me:

"In its suit (ed- by the Oakland-based Center for Environmental Health against Chrysler and the three largest makers of lead wheel weights for the U.S. market), the group contended that wheel weights falling off vehicles release 500,000 pounds of lead each year into the environment in California." (ibid)

Arved Grass


Re: History of Bev-Bel

Edward
 

As an obvious aside here, BevBel also produced plastic O scale car kits under their name, which were from the 1970s Atlas O scale line. BevBel offered theirs in road names that Atlas did not use.

Ed Bommer


Re: History of Bev-Bel

Don Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Tim,

I worked with both firms over the years and do not believe there was ever
any connection between Bill & Ellen Glass' two "companies", E&B Valley and
Robin's Rails, and the Belkins other than the fact that Bev-Bel may have
distributed products from the Glass owned companies.

Bev-Bel also used to custom decorate Athearn Blue-Box F-units for roads
that Athearn chose not to offer. Amongst the first of these were B&M F-units
in the Minuteman paint style.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: History of Bev-Bel

Charlie Vlk
 

Bev-Bel and Karline provided variety in freight car decoration back in the dark ages when manufacturers thought one paint job and roadnumber was sufficient per railroad and kept that same car in their line for decades.

Kar-Line had RTR Athearn and Roundhouse cars, pre-equipped with Kadee couplers, that were nicely painted and decaled.   BevBel made special runs of kits and some RTR cars using pad printing or possibly early on rubber stamping.

“Back in the Day” Athearn and MDC Roundhouse were the primary production lines in town, with minor support from AHM, Fleischmann, Lindberg, Revell, Mantua/Tyco, Lionel, and Crown (Chinese copies of Athearn some of which are still in the Bachmann lineup).

Renumbering freight cars was important because our HO Club (the Illinois Tech Model Railroaders) had a car registry and if you didn’t make an entry first you had to get out the decals if you wanted to operate the car on the club layout.

From my days at Con-Cor/JMC and Kato I have good impressions of my contacts with Bev at Bev-Bel….they ran a nice business.

Charlie Vlk

.



Re: Car Weights

arved_grass
 

Not just California:

"Lead wheel weights have been under attack for several years by environmentalists. They were banned by the European Union in 2005 and are being phased out in Japan and South Korea. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is sponsoring a voluntary initiative to reduce the use of lead wheel weights but has not banned them." (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/aug/21/business/fi-wheels21)

This seems inflated to me:

"In its suit (ed- by the Oakland-based Center for Environmental Health against Chrysler and the three largest makers of lead wheel weights for the U.S. market), the group contended that wheel weights falling off vehicles release 500,000 pounds of lead each year into the environment in California." (ibid)

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@yahoo.com or Arved@I-Do-Photography.com
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 1/20/15, Jon Miller atsfus@gmail.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Car Weights
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2015, 11:50 AM
On 1/19/2015 11:57 PM, rob.mclear3@bigpond.com [STMFC] wrote:
meant to stay on outdoors in all climates
If only the centrifugal force from our freight cars would help (VBG)!
and they are zinc coated lead so safe to handle. Reasonably cheap here as well, $10 gets me enough for about 30 cars.
And you don't live in California, capital of "you can't have/get it here"! again VBG

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: UTLX Tank Car Designations

Tony Thompson
 

Dave Parker wrote:

Sounds like Union was not very consistent in their use of the "Z" designation.

     I very much doubt this was true. UTL almost certainly had a definite system. We just don't know what it was.

I went through all the builder's photos in Kaminski's book.  "Type 21" (i.e., non radial) cars built from 1919 to 1922 had KD brakes, with rare exception.  1923 seems to be a transitional year, while cars built from 1924 into the early 1930s all had KC brakes.  I am wondering why AC&F (or its customers) might have preferred KD brakes initially, and what then prompted the switch to KC.  Do you have any thoughts?

     Remember that Type 21 refers only to the underframe. Tanks varied considerably and were for all intents and purposes chosen by buyers, as were brakes and other appliances. There may indeed be correlations of the kind you describe, but they don't have anything directly to do with AC&F Types.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Car Weights

 

Ah. My luck with foam stick on weights is that they don’t. In my book, they
are fine is the car is never going to leave the track or not be stored
upright. But never store on their side, as the foam lets go eventually. I’d
rather buy the bars and use something permanent to adhere to the car.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 11:06 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Car Weights







Brian,

I think the weights being referred to are the same as the old A-Line
product. Depending on their weight, they could be almost square to
rectangular and flat.

Chuck Hladik

In a message dated 1/20/2015 12:02:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
STMFC@yahoogroups.com writes:



Those weights are usually curved, and quite hard to shape. Most sporting
goods stores sell lead bar strips to use for duck decoy anchors, similar to
those shown in the link below. As a bonus, you can also buy a 25lb sack of
lead shotŠ.

http://tinyurl.com/p8m5llx

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 1:57 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Car Weights

Agreed but another option is the weights that are used on allow rims as
balance weights, the come with their own adhesive, meant to stay on outdoors
in all climates and they are zinc coated lead so safe to handle. Reasonably
cheap here as well, $10 gets me enough for about 30 cars.

Rob McLear
Australia.

---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <asperandeo@...> wrote :

Just to make a couple of observations, sheet lead is not magnetic, and
screws make an instant attachment with no solvent vapors or danger of
shrinkage. So long ­ Andy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: History of Bev-Bel

D. Scott Chatfield
 

So what happened to the Belkins? I loaned them some boxcar slides back in the mid-80s and never got them back. I wish that had taught me to never loan out originals to manufacturers except I did it 15 years later to a big company and they too lost them. That said, I loaned plenty to Walthers and always got those back.

Scott Chatfield


Re: Car Weights

Charles Hladik
 

Brian,
 
    I think the weights being referred to are the same as the old A-Line product. Depending on their weight, they could be almost square to rectangular and flat.
 
Chuck Hladik
 

In a message dated 1/20/2015 12:02:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

Those weights are usually curved, and quite hard to shape. Most sporting
goods stores sell lead bar strips to use for duck decoy anchors, similar to
those shown in the link below. As a bonus, you can also buy a 25lb sack of
lead shotŠ.

http://tinyurl.com/p8m5llx

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List
Reply-To: STMFC List
Date: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 at 1:57 AM
To: STMFC List
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Car Weights

Agreed but another option is the weights that are used on allow rims as
balance weights, the come with their own adhesive, meant to stay on outdoors
in all climates and they are zinc coated lead so safe to handle. Reasonably
cheap here as well, $10 gets me enough for about 30 cars.

Rob McLear
Australia.

---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Just to make a couple of observations, sheet lead is not magnetic, and
screws make an instant attachment with no solvent vapors or danger of
shrinkage. So long ­ Andy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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