Date   

cooper black italic font on railroad cars

Benjamin Scanlon
 

Hi


Kind of an odd question, but I am wondering if any railroad used Cooper black italic font on their rolling stock.  Sounds obscure but 'Cooper black' was what the ATSF used on their diesels, but the italic version seems to be somewhat rarer, and I'm trying to find a decal or transfer with lettering in that font. 


Regards,


Ben Scanlon

London, UK


Re: Bananas via Fruit Growers Express

Charlie Vlk
 

 

The RAILWAY AGE for Dec 19, 1931 Vol 91 No 25 p.931 has an article about the CB&Q recently completing a Banana Warehouse at Minneapolis, Minn.  The “Q” was doing 350 carloads a month into and through Minneapolis.  Other fruits besides

bananas  could be handled at the facility which was designed to maintain interior temperatures between 45 and 70 degrees year round.

The building was 90 ft. by 200 ft. and was constructed as a corrugated iron Butler Building with “Nuwood” insulation on the interior.  Steam unit heaters supplied by oil fired boilers provided heat from a 24 ft x 24ft separate boiler house.

From the photographs it appeared to have two tracks and one track with a central driveway for truck unloading between them.

It was noted that the building used ready-mixed concrete instead of site prepared material.  

No mention was made in the article of where the banana traffic originated but it could have been from the IC connection at East Dubuque, IL where the IC line crosses the Mississippi into Iowa.

Charlie Vlk

 


Re: waterside oil terminals

Tim Mulina BHI <bhipubs@...>
 

Ed,

 

First off I can not answer your question about Aviation fuel delivery but just a tidbit about it…And I am NOT a petro engineer but am an aviation historian and my aviation roots go back about to the same stage as my railroad family roots do so I grew up with this J

 

Jimmy Doolittle in the mid 1930’s was a Captain and Major while in the Army and was a world famous air show pilot and racer. He retired from the Army Air Corps to take a position with Royal Dutch Shell Petroleum as their VP of Aviation products for the US. He was based out of St. Louis (My father and I rehabbed a house just a couple of doors down from his to pay my way through college in the late 70’s) because this was still the cutting edge of aviation as much as NY, southern CA, and Seattle were. I attended Parks College which was part of St Louis University and where a lot of his aviation fuel research was done and saw many of the original notes and reports he either wrote or had written about the aviation fuel needs of the US in peacetime much less for military use.

 

I am going from memory here so some small details may be off a bit but the basis is correct.

The basic fuel up till then was around a 60-80 octane and even with adding Tetraethyl lead (a.k.a Ethyl) it was not that efficient for the engines of the day. The Boeing B-17 was in development and due to his close friendship with Ira Eaker and Hap Arnold he was able to convince Shell to pioneer the higher octanes that were necessary to fly high performance engines at high altitudes without causing excessive detonation without having to add as much TEL as before. It gave a higher horsepower and efficiency to engines especially the higher end ones such as the Rolls Royce/Packard Merlin which was used in the Spitfire, P-51 Mustang, and Lancaster heavy bomber.

 

Being able to not use as much Ethyl in the fuels helped the resource management just a bit because otherwise there would have had to be a much larger amount shipped worldwide to use as a high altitude fuel additive.

 

Another question to consider on the aviation fuels is if it was pre-blended with TEL or if it was added on site at the various POL depots and airfields around the world and how was it shipped as well.

 

So that gives one more potential load/empty for those fuel terminals.

 

Regards,

 

 

Tim Mulina

BHI Publications

http://www.quickpicbooks.com/

https://www.facebook.com/bhipubs

http://tim-mulina.artistwebsites.com

 

 

 

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 2:23 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] waterside oil terminals

 

 

Around New York City gasoline and home heating oil are delivered by water to local terminals.

 

Were tank cars loaded at waterside side oil terminals out in the country like Newburgh, NY?

 

Am I correct that specialty hydrocarbons like aviation gasoline were delivered by tank car even when waterside oil terminals were close to customers?

 

Ed Mines


Bananas via Fruit Growers Express

Bill Welch
 

I have photos of bananas being transloaded from boats/ships into FGE cars in Tampa and have seen photos of this kind at the Port of Baltimore that I intend to acquire. There is also LofC image of an Armour owned FGE reefer being transloaded in New Orleans, circa 1905. I am not certain but I think the Port at Charleston, SC was another point for banana receiving and shipping. In fact as I write this there are documents in the Souther Archives at Kennisaw, GA about this traffic.


Question, is "transloading" the appropriate term?


Bill Welch


Re: PS-1 Roofwalks

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Sorry Tony!  I knew it was one or the other.  I didn't have time to check this morning but I knew that you wiuld be there for me.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]"
Date:01/21/2015 11:36 (GMT-10:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] PS-1 Roofwalks

 

Bill Pardie wrote:

 

Does anyone know if the C&O used a specific brand of roofwalk on their PS-1 Boxcars. I would have thought that they were all the same, however, I remembered that the WP used Morton roofwalks on their cars.


    Standing in for Richard Hendrickson, I must ask -- surely you meant to say "running board?"


Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: PFE cars loaded with bananas

Dave Parker
 

In all seriousness, banana traffic by rail is a very interesting subject throughout our era.  Here are two recommended articles, the first being quite specific about both ports and railroad routes:

http://www.csx.com/index.cfm/working-at-csx/retirees/regional-organizations/rabo/alumni-news/bananas-once-the-railroadse28099-golden-cargo-by-frank-dewey/

http://www.unctad.info/upload/infocomm/docs/bananas/roleofdemand.pdf

Also, if you are interested in the pre-WWII traffic, the Port Series books published by the Army Corps in the 1920s and 30s are a possible source of additional clues.  I have all three editions for Boston (1920, 1927, 1935), and gleaned several things about banana traffic through Boston Harbor and onto the B&M from them.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 12:29 PM, "Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Friends,

When I was stationed in Long Beach in the late 1970s, bananas were still arriving there by ship. IIRC, the landing point was Terminal Island right next to the huge coke loading facility, but I don't remember them being loaded into railroad cars. Probably all were moved by truck.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 1/21/15 3:20 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
Ed Mineswrote:

 
Tony, any idea what ports PFE cars were loaded with bananas? Erie had leased reefers; I guess they made more money loading their own cars.

     I know for sure about Los Angeles, San Francisco and New Orleans. Whether Houston/Galveston or other Texas ports were also active through PFE, I am not sure, but it seems logical, given the Central American origin of most banana cargoes.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history








Re: PS-1 Roofwalks

water.kresse@...
 

The C&O FC Diag Drwgs revised 1968  book would have all the series of running boards listed.  The C&O split up specialties like door hardware, running boards, hand brake gear boxes and wheels, etc. to keep competitors not-to-comfortable and forcing them to give their best prices.
Al Kresse
 


From: "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2015 4:06:09 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] PS-1 Roofwalks

 


As far as I know from a few photos and notes --


 C&O 16000-16749: APEX rb
 C&O 16750-16999: GYPSUM rb
 C&O 17000-17999: APEX rb
 C&O 18000-18499: GYPSUM rb


I have general arrangement drawings for two classes of C&O PS-1s.

C&O 15000-15999, 40' cars with 6' doors built in 1948, had Apex Tri-Lok running boards and brake steps. C&O 18500-18999, 40' cars with 8' doors built in 1952, had Gypsum running boards and brake steps. There were two other groups of 8' door cars, but I don't have the drawings.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

Does anyone know if the C&O used a specific brand of roofwalk on their
PS-1 Boxcars. I would have thought that they were all the same, however,
I remembered that the WP used Morton roofwalks on their cars.

Thanks in advance for any help:

Bill Pardie



Re: PS-1 Roofwalks

Tony Thompson
 

Bill Pardie wrote:

 

Does anyone know if the C&O used a specific brand of roofwalk on their PS-1 Boxcars. I would have thought that they were all the same, however, I remembered that the WP used Morton roofwalks on their cars.


    Standing in for Richard Hendrickson, I must ask -- surely you meant to say "running board?"


Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: waterside oil terminals

Edward
 

In the time frame of our group, in New York Harbor, they used small harbor tankers that were loaded at various oil refineries along the Kill van Kull and Arthur Kill. Tidewater, Gulf, Standard Oil, etc. had large refineries that received crude oil from ocean going tank ships.

The harbor tankers ran directly to distribution points or to major customers, which also included most of the ships that came to New York, whether tramp steamers or ocean liners. They mainly burned Bunker C oil by the 1930s as coal for marine fuel was being phased out. Ocean going "motor ships" with their large, slow revving diesel engines of course took on diesel fuel.

These harbor tankers went up the Hudson to Albany, as well as a through the NY State Barge Canal to Lake Champlain or west to Buffalo. They also traveled Long Island Sound to distribution points at ports along the New England coast as far as Maine.

Oil arriving by tank car to the NY metro area was rare and would likely be prepared for very specific uses, such as automatic transmission fluid or hydraulic oil. Vegetable oils as well, for the food processing industry. Also linseed oil for paint and varnish manufacture as well as turpentine. Yet a good deal of that could also come into the NY area by coastal tanker from southern US ports as paint and varnish plants were often located along the harbor shoreline.

The Procter & Gamble plant at Port Ivory on Staten Island also received large amounts of animal and vegetable oil for processing into soaps and detergents. Until the 1940s, whale oil for P&G was off-loaded from tankships in The Narrows and transhipped to Port Ivory in smaller harbor tankers. P&G also made use of vegetable and animal oils. Most of that arrived in tank cars over the Staten Island Rapid Transit, a B&O subsidiary that handled freight. 

Out going refinery products were shipped in tank cars to other areas
beyond the reach of marine transport. This included Bunker C and more highly refined oils, heating fuel, kerosene, jet fuel, gasoline and propane.
Also included would be tank cars carrying renderings of animal oils and tallow from various plants doing that in the Secaucus NJ area then.

In a few select cases, major fuel oil customers in the metro NY area had direct pipelines serving them from some refineries. That eliminated water transport in harbor sized tank ships. One such high pressure pipe line built in the mid-1950s ran from Standard Oil's Bayway NJ refinery to Idlewild (later JFK) Airport in Queens, to deliver jet fuel. Another served Newark Airport.

Ed Bommer


Re: NEW KADEE BOXCAR

Tim O'Connor
 

If Sam Clarke is at Springfield on Saturday, I'll ask him.

While thinking about PS-1 boxcars I recalled that at Lysle last
October that Kadee announced that they would have a new boxcar
by the end of the year. The end of the year has come and gone.
Has anyone heard anything?

Bill Pardie


Re: PS-1 Roofwalks

Tim O'Connor
 


As far as I know from a few photos and notes --

 C&O 16000-16749: APEX rb
 C&O 16750-16999: GYPSUM rb
 C&O 17000-17999: APEX rb
 C&O 18000-18499: GYPSUM rb


I have general arrangement drawings for two classes of C&O PS-1s.

C&O 15000-15999, 40' cars with 6' doors built in 1948, had Apex Tri-Lok running boards and brake steps. C&O 18500-18999, 40' cars with 8' doors built in 1952, had Gypsum running boards and brake steps. There were two other groups of 8' door cars, but I don't have the drawings.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

Does anyone know if the C&O used a specific brand of roofwalk on their
PS-1 Boxcars. I would have thought that they were all the same, however,
I remembered that the WP used Morton roofwalks on their cars.

Thanks in advance for any help:

Bill Pardie


Re: PS-1 Roofwalks

Allan Smith
 

The Steam Era Freight Car web site has a file showing 40' PS-1 boxcars. The RB for the C&O cars are show on that list.

Al Smith Sonora CA


Re: PS-1 Roofwalks

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Bill,

I have general arrangement drawings for two classes of C&O PS-1s.

C&O 15000-15999, 40' cars with 6' doors built in 1948, had Apex Tri-Lok running boards and brake steps. C&O 18500-18999, 40' cars with 8' doors built in 1952, had Gypsum running boards and brake steps. There were two other groups of 8' door cars, but I don't have the drawings.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 1/21/15 3:20 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE PARDIEW001@... [STMFC] wrote:
 


Does anyone know if the C&O used a specific brand of roofwalk on their
PS-1 Boxcars. I would have thought that they were all the same, however,
I remembered that the WP used Morton roofwalks on their cars.

Thanks in advance for any help:

Bill Pardie



Re: soft iron foil

Tony Thompson
 

Charles Peck wrote:

Google is your friend.  Yes, iron foil is out there. It would tend to be stiffer than aluminum foil of the same thickness
so you you would need to get it thinner to get similar flexibility. 

     Yes, the elastic modulus of iron is about triple that of aluminum, so any piece of iron ought to be just about three times as stiff as the same shape in aluminum.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: CNW 75194

Jack Mullen
 

Schuyler,

I'm on the road, but in a few days I should be able to find and send a copy of a diagram sheet for the above car.
I don't recall the series offhand, but your description sounds like a rebuild of one of the earlier CNW SS 40' auto cars. I think the 1936 blt date must be a reblt date.

I hope this note makes it. It's a second attempt; I'm working through a very slow and cranky hotel wifi.

Jack Mullen


Re: soft iron foil

Charles Peck
 

Google is your friend.  Yes, iron foil is out there. It would tend to be stiffer than aluminum foil of the same thickness
so you you would need to get it thinner to get similar flexibility. 
Be prepared for sticker shock.
Chuck Peck

On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 3:15 PM, ed_mines@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Is soft iron made in thin sheets than can be crumpled like aluminum foil?


Ed Mines



Re: PS-1 Roofwalks

Benjamin Hom
 

Bill Pardie asked:
"Does anyone know if the C&O used a specific brand of roofwalk on their
PS-1 Boxcars. I would have thought that they were all the same, however, I remembered that the WP used Morton roofwalks on their cars."

See Ed Hawkins' PS-1 spreadsheet:
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/PullmanStandard40ftPS1Boxcars.xls


Ben Hom


Re: PFE cars loaded with bananas

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

When I was stationed in Long Beach in the late 1970s, bananas were still arriving there by ship. IIRC, the landing point was Terminal Island right next to the huge coke loading facility, but I don't remember them being loaded into railroad cars. Probably all were moved by truck.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 1/21/15 3:20 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
Ed Mineswrote:

 
Tony, any idea what ports PFE cars were loaded with bananas? Erie had leased reefers; I guess they made more money loading their own cars.

     I know for sure about Los Angeles, San Francisco and New Orleans. Whether Houston/Galveston or other Texas ports were also active through PFE, I am not sure, but it seems logical, given the Central American origin of most banana cargoes.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






NEW KADEE BOXCAR

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

While thinking about PS-1 boxcars I recalled that at Lysle last
October that Kadee announced that they would have a new boxcar
by the end of the year. The end of the year has come and gone.
Has anyone heard anything?

Bill Pardie


Re: soft iron foil

arved_grass
 

Try steel shim stock. It will be fully hard, but if you anneal it, it should behave as you expect.

I've bought shim stock through McMaster-Carr, but any good hardware store or industrial supply house should carry it.

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@yahoo.com or Arved@I-Do-Photography.com
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 1/21/15, ed_mines@yahoo.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [STMFC] soft iron foil
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2015, 3:15 PM


 









Is soft iron made in thin sheets than
can be crumpled like aluminum foil?
Ed Mines









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