Date   

Re: Bananas

Craig Zeni
 

On Jan 20, 2015, at 2:47 PM, STMFC@... wrote:

4a. Re: Bananas
Posted by: pullmanboss@... pullmanboss
Date: Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:12 am ((PST))

Mike wrote:
, if we allowed hundreds of messages about bananas
on the STMFC, surely we could allow at least some
discussion regarding the locomotives that pull the
cars containing said bananas...

The adventure continues. Posted this morning on Trainorders.com by Eugene Crowner:
"Back in the 1950s on the U.P. there was a banana messenger out of Los Angeles that rode in the caboose with the crew. Presumably he accompanied the bananas at least as far as Salt Lake City. The bananas were destined for Utah and Idaho."


I was aware of attendants riding poultry cars, but banana attendants? On the UP??
Mere attendants? I'd hoped they'd have bananamanagers....

/gets coat and hat

Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Re: Bananas via Fruit Growers Express

Bill Welch
 

A couple of random thoughts regarding perishable traffic on the Southern Railway.

In addition to the banana extras that the Southern ran, they had four regular trains identified in their Perishable Schedules that were basically north and northwesterly bound with Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina grown produce bound for urban centers in US and Canada.

Despite all of this important traffic and the revenue realized from it, the Southern remained the bane of FGE Management and the other owner railroads that comprised their Board of Directors with their refusal to participate financially through the years with various plans for improvements to the car fleet. During the first few years of FGE's existence, there were discussions among some of the owners to de-solve FGE and reform it without the Southern, so frustrated and angry were the other railroads.

Bill Welch


Re: cooper black italic font on railroad cars

Benjamin Scanlon
 

Thank you for the responses, gentlemen.


Ben Scanlon

London, England


Re: One Last X29 Question

Benjamin Hom
 

Arved Grass wrote:
"AAR mandated AB brakes in 1933, so I'm quite sure about the 1934 cars being built with AB brakes. Were the 1932 cars built with K brakes? I doubt it. Handwriting was on the wall by then. I believe I've seen that the 1932 cars were built with AB brakes."

You're overthinking this. ALL of the Dreadnaught end cars were built with AB brakes. PRR built at least one X29 with AB brakes in 1930. The builder's photo of the car shows it with an "EXPERIMENTAL AB BRAKE" stencil.




Ben Hom


Re: One Last X29 Question

arved_grass
 

From Bruce Smith (more info at http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=X29):

49313-54463 built 1928-1930 5151 cars
54464-57643 built 1928-30 3180 cars
90633-92500 built 1924-25 1868 cars
93995-96126 built 1924-25 2132 cars
97949-99999 built 1924-25 2051 cars
100000-101324 built 1932 1325 cars
101325-103324 built 1934 2000 cars
50200-505948 built 1924-25 3949 cars
566091-574090 built 1924-25 8000 cars

So, I count:
18,000 cars built 1924-25 (61% of total built)
8,331 cars built 1928-1930 (29% of total built)
3,325 cars built 1932 and 1934 (11% of total built)
29,656 total cars.

Yes, percentages do not add up to 100% due to round off errors. From my lower-division "Numerical Methods" class back in the stone age, you can't expect 3 digit accuracy using 2 digit numbers. And since my current thinking is a fleet of about 10 X29s, that's more accuracy than I need to figure out what models I need to build.

On the one hand, if I want to build a representative fleet, I have to built 6 of the 1924-25 cars, and 3 of the 1928-1930 cars before I have to worry about having one of the 1932 or 1934 X29s with Dreadnaught ends. What I really need to do is to break out my 1953 ORER and other research material, and take out the Merchandise and Express cars that would not likely be on the Southern Pacific's Coast Line in 1953.

(Note: I spent some more time than I did computing the above than I did computing lead lost on California roads, but I have not double checked my figures. I will do so after my research material arrives, and before anything is done to models. The bigger concern to me is not what was built, but what survived to 1953, and even more specifically, what cars were likely to run on SP's Coast Line in 1953. At present, I'm interested in signature freight cars likely to be seen on the Southern Pacific Coast Line in 1953, but as they say, PRR freight cars were so common in interchange that every modeler is a PRR modeler, whether he likes it or not.)

I have 5 RC models (in kit form) on their way courtesy Mike Brock and Tony Thompson, so I have my work cut out for me as it is. Tony said he might have a sixth for me. Sometime soon, I need to turn to building 3 of those RC-7000 kits for the 1928-1930 series. Then, and only then, can I worry about an X29 with Dreadnaught ends if I were to keep my roster of X29s in proportion to the number of cars built. I need to get a better idea of what the X29 fleet looked like in 1953, as I said, discounting the cars unlikely to be on the SP Coast line (per discussions with Tony Thompson and others).

I suspect I'm going to be tired of building X29s by the time the models from Mike and Tony are done! At best, a car with dreadnaught ends will be in the second batch I'll build. But I think there are more 1928 X29s to worry about than 1932/34 X29s with their dreadnaught ends.

The RC-7000 kit is interesting. Since Cocoa Beach, when the idea for modeling an X29 first dawned on me (long story), I have yet to see a kit surface on eBay. It's not listed on the Red Caboose site, so I assume there are no more plans to produce the kit. Red Caboose has not offered the car painted in any of it's kits, and to the best of my knowledge, Intermountain hasn't imported the 1928 body in its RTR line. If I hadn't seen multiple messages and other references to the kit, I'd say it's vaporware. At this point, it's definitely the rarest X29, at least in HO.

I still have a lot to learn and to figure out to have this signature car on my roster of freight cars. Learning is part of the fun. Making mistakes is part of the learning process. However, making mistakes is no fun. Doubly so after Ben Hom and Tim O'Conner get through beating me up. :-)So, like the adage to measure twice before cutting once, research thoroughly before modeling.

AAR mandated AB brakes in 1933, so I'm quite sure about the 1934 cars being built with AB brakes. Were the 1932 cars built with K brakes? I doubt it. Handwriting was on the wall by then. I believe I've seen that the 1932 cars were built with AB brakes. In 1953, K brakes were banned from interchange service, so the only cars I plan on modeling with K brakes are my cabooses. I'm galvanized about cars interchanged not having K brakes on my roster, even if a few slipped by the deadline. The subject of K brakes is a bit esoteric for me. Whether a car was built with K brakes or not, by the time I model, all should have AB brakes.

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@... or Arved@...
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 1/22/15, Chris Sawicki casawicki2@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Hi Arved- I understand your point on Red Caboose #7000 1928 with plate ends
there are (2) 1928 side panel and DNE kits#7001 with K brakes#7004 with AB brakes
#7001 appears incorrect with K brakes and DNE's
Chris Sawicki


On Thursday, January 22, 2015 2:21 PM, "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:



Chris Sawicki wrote:
"From Ben's TKM articles, the 1928 version should have plate ends (my understanding) if it also has K brakes."

Yes, for AS-BUILT cars. Keep in mind that cars were eventually retrofitted with AB brakes.

Speaking of AB brakes, this is a "gotcha" with the Red Caboose model. The AB brake arrangement assembled in accordance with the instructions (with transverse reservoir on the same side of the car as the AB valve) is correct ONLY for Dreadnaught end cars built between 1932-1934. It is incorrect for all cars retrofitted with AB brakes. The reservoir should be mounted parallel to the center sill on the opposite side of the car from the AB valve. Additionally, the retainer line no longer runs diagonally across the B end, but parallel with the car ladder straight down the end from the retainer valve.

Ben Hom


Re: cooper black italic font on railroad cars

Charles Peck
 

I'll certainly look into what Kadee offers.  "Washed out" sounds a lot easier than fading with Scotchbright pads.
Chuck Peck

On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 


I do not recommend Kadee decals, unless you want your white letters
to have that "washed out" look. Kadee makes wonderful models but their
lettering is strictly second-rate IMO. I got some of their decals to
make extra SP PS-2 hoppers, but I'll be using Microscale instead.

Tim O'

>Kadee will also do small run decals:
>
>http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/custom.htm
>
>Microscale and Rail Graphics will do larger runs.
>
>Arved Grass



Re: X29

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

You are right Ben it was meant to go as a private email.
Paul Doggett UK




Sent from Samsung mobile

"Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Paul Doggett wrote:
"You have opened a can of worms with your x29 post they are a nightmare good luck my friend."

Only a nightmare if you don't pay attention and review the information out there.

Ben Hom


Re: X29

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Oops sorry should have been sent to private email.
Paul Doggett UK




Sent from Samsung mobile

"'paul.doggett2472' paul.doggett2472@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Arved 

           You have opened a can of worms with your x29 post they are a nightmare good luck my friend.
I am going to decal my B50-27 tomorrow after i have been to the hospital with Christine she is having psychotherapy and a blood test.
My ignition switch should arrive tomorrow, i hope it does then its sorted out.
Cheers Paul 



Sent from Samsung mobile


Re: X29

Benjamin Hom
 

Paul Doggett wrote:
"You have opened a can of worms with your x29 post they are a nightmare good luck my friend."

Only a nightmare if you don't pay attention and review the information out there.


Ben Hom


X29

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Arved 

           You have opened a can of worms with your x29 post they are a nightmare good luck my friend.
I am going to decal my B50-27 tomorrow after i have been to the hospital with Christine she is having psychotherapy and a blood test.
My ignition switch should arrive tomorrow, i hope it does then its sorted out.
Cheers Paul 



Sent from Samsung mobile


Re: cooper black italic font on railroad cars

 

In many ways, ALPS is notable mostly for being quick. Computer fonts are not
necessarily always spot on. But you can¹t beat the turnaround time when it¹s
working (both of mine are not).

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 1:57 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: cooper black italic font on railroad cars








>> I don't think Kadee uses it's own decals.

No one said they did, Arved. But for all I know, they pad print their
decals.
If they are now using an ALPS, that might be an improvement over what they
did
years ago when I got my decals. Personally I'm not crazy about ALPS decals
either. Silk screen decals are still the best IMO.

Tim O'









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Bananas via Fruit Growers Express

Cyril Durrenberger
 

Thanks,

Cyril Durrenberger
--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 1/22/15, george eichelberger geichelberger@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Subject: [STMFC] Re: Bananas via Fruit Growers Express
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1:56 PM

Cyril:

I have not looked at the date range on the SRHA Archive
banana boat files in detail in some time (they are in the
Kennesaw museum/SRHA archives) but I believe they are mostly
1950s and 60s. There is extensive data at Kennesaw on the
SR’s Charleston banana, coal pier and WWII troop, prisoner
and hospital trains to and from the ETO, all topics that
need to be researched and published.

Ike



------------------------------------

------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


    STMFC-fullfeatured@...


Re: One Last X29 Question

Chris Sawicki
 

Hi Arved- I understand your point on Red Caboose #7000 1928 with plate ends

there are (2) 1928 side panel and DNE kits
#7001 with K brakes
#7004 with AB brakes

#7001 appears incorrect with K brakes and DNE's

Chris Sawicki



On Thursday, January 22, 2015 2:21 PM, "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 

Chris Sawicki wrote:
"From Ben's TKM articles, the 1928 version should have plate ends (my understanding) if it also has K brakes."

Yes, for AS-BUILT cars. Keep in mind that cars were eventually retrofitted with AB brakes.

Speaking of AB brakes, this is a "gotcha" with the Red Caboose model. The AB brake arrangement assembled in accordance with the instructions (with transverse reservoir on the same side of the car as the AB valve) is correct ONLY for Dreadnaught end cars built between 1932-1934. It is incorrect for all cars retrofitted with AB brakes. The reservoir should be mounted parallel to the center sill on the opposite side of the car from the AB valve. Additionally, the retainer line no longer runs diagonally across the B end, but parallel with the car ladder straight down the end from the retainer valve.

Ben Hom



Re: One Last X29 Question

Benjamin Hom
 

Chris Sawicki wrote:
"From Ben's TKM articles, the 1928 version should have plate ends (my understanding) if it also has K brakes."

Yes, for AS-BUILT cars. Keep in mind that cars were eventually retrofitted with AB brakes.

Speaking of AB brakes, this is a "gotcha" with the Red Caboose model. The AB brake arrangement assembled in accordance with the instructions (with transverse reservoir on the same side of the car as the AB valve) is correct ONLY for Dreadnaught end cars built between 1932-1934. It is incorrect for all cars retrofitted with AB brakes. The reservoir should be mounted parallel to the center sill on the opposite side of the car from the AB valve. Additionally, the retainer line no longer runs diagonally across the B end, but parallel with the car ladder straight down the end from the retainer valve.


Ben Hom


Re: One Last X29 Question

arved_grass
 

At the risk of getting my hand slapped by Ben...

The "1928 car with Dreadnaught Ends" represents the cars built 1932 and 1934. There was an RC-7000 kit, no longer offered, that was a correct 1928 car. The 1928 cars had the flat ends of the 1924 cars, but there were differences in how the side sheets were put together.

From a chronological stand point, for the basic car, you start with the RC-7002 being the original X29 of 1924. The sides get revised in 1928 (RC-7000), and then revised again in 1932 with the dreadnaught ends (RC-7001). Then we get into patched panel cars... The ARA and REA variants were also covered by RC.

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@... or Arved@...
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 1/22/15, Chris Sawicki casawicki2@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] One Last X29 Question
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Date: Thursday, January 22, 2015, 2:19 PM


 









All- I think the confusion is
over the Red Caboose kit #7001. It is labeled 1928, with K
brakes, but also has DNE's??.
Kit
#7004 is labeled the same but with AB brakes.
From
Ben's TKM articles, the 1928 version should have plate
ends (my understanding) if it also has K brakes.
http://www.red-caboose.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?&shop=redcaboose&language=eng&curr=0&session=54c14a660783676f&cart_id=91711343x1923&product_display=RC-7001

Chris
Sawicki









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Re: X29 articles

Aley, Jeff A
 

One assumes that most folks can edit Ben’s link to make it work.

 

But in case someone is having trouble, the link he meant to post is

http://www.prrths.com/

One could also go to http://www.prrths.com/newprr_files/newPRRKeystoneModeler.htm   but that one perhaps will change over time, whereas the first link should work for the forseeable future.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff Aley

Deputy Moderator, STMFC

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 10:33 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] X29 articles

 

 

George Walls asked:
"Where do I find the TKM articles you're referring to?"

The articles are available on the first two TKM CD volumes available from the PRRT&HS Company Store. Go to http://www.prrths.com/and click on "TKM" for ordering information. For the specific issues of TKM and Mainline Modeler, see my post from 16 January, 11:47 AM for more details.

Ben Hom


Re: cooper black italic font on railroad cars

Tim O'Connor
 

I don't think Kadee uses it's own decals.
No one said they did, Arved. But for all I know, they pad print their decals.
If they are now using an ALPS, that might be an improvement over what they did
years ago when I got my decals. Personally I'm not crazy about ALPS decals
either. Silk screen decals are still the best IMO.

Tim O'


Re: Bananas via Fruit Growers Express

George Eichelberger
 

Cyril:

I have not looked at the date range on the SRHA Archive banana boat files in detail in some time (they are in the Kennesaw museum/SRHA archives) but I believe they are mostly 1950s and 60s. There is extensive data at Kennesaw on the SR’s Charleston banana, coal pier and WWII troop, prisoner and hospital trains to and from the ETO, all topics that need to be researched and published.

Ike


Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: One Last X29 Question (I promise. Well, maybe...) (UNCLASSIFIED)

arved_grass
 

Guess I should have requested overnight delivery. :-/

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@... or Arved@...
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 1/22/15, 'Gatwood, Elden SAW' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Amen, Ben! Sometimes I think no one read any of those articles we wrote.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 1:11 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [STMFC] One Last X29 Question (I promise. Well, maybe...)

Arved Grass asked:
"Is the Walthers X29 closer to the 1924 or 1928 build?"

The 1924-1925 build.

"In the absence of Red Caboose RC-7000 models (of the 1928 car), I'm looking for an easier way to model a 1928 version car than to kitbash the 1924 ends onto the 1932/1934 body (same 1928 sides, but with Dreadnaught ends)."

You're better off keeping an eye out for the Red Caboose 1928 models with flat ends instead of cutting up Dreadnaught end cars. Besides, building cars from the 1924-1925 production group will keep you plenty busy.

Please do yourself (and me) a huge favor, get the TKM articles, and READ THEM. I'd like to think that all of the effort we put into them (including giving them away for free at the time) was worth it.

Ben Hom


Re: X29 articles

arved_grass
 

I'm not Ben, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once. Here's what I found (posted Friday, January 16, 2015 12:34 PM to the list):

The Keystone Modeler Index shows:

Articles on modeling:
(Read in 5 columns, Subject, Type, Scale, Issue, Page)
X29 Boxcar – Des Plaines Hobbies .................................................. Resin Kit .................. O............ 9.......... 15
Correction ............................................................................................................... ............ 10.......... 9
X29 Boxcar Part 3 – Train-Miniature/Walthers ................................Plastic kit .................HO.......... 11......... 37
Supplement ............................................................................................................. ............ 12.......... 9
Supplement ............................................................................................................. ............ 68.......... 8
X29 Boxcar Part 4 – Red Caboose ...................................................Plastic kit .................HO.......... 12......... 39
X29 Boxcar Part 5 – Decals .............................................................................................. All.......... 13......... 45
Supplement ............................................................................................................. ............ 14.......... 6
X29 Merchandise Service Boxcars ................................................................................... All.......... 15......... 47
P.I.: roster, photos
Supplement ............................................................................................................. ............ 21.......... 9
X29 List of available models.................................................................All ...................... All.......... 12......... 40
Supplement ............................................................................................................. ............ 13.......... 7

Prototype:
(read in 3 columns, Subject, Issue, Page)
X29 boxcars – Part 1 – Brief history, roster, detail variations, lettering, photos..................... ............. 8........... 9
X29 express boxcars – Part 2 –Brief history, roster, detail variations, lettering, photos ........9 ........... 10
X29B boxcars – Part 3 – Brief history, roster, detail variations, lettering, photos................... ............ 37......... 21

All the issues are available on CD from the PRRT&HS. $15 for members, $45 for non-members. Guess I'm going to have to become a member, if for no other reason than the economics of buying the CDs. Membership is (minimum) $35/yr, so if you buy more than one CD, the membership is paid by the discount. To get everything related to the X29, I'm going to need CDs 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6. Might as well get all 8 and have the full set.

Ben Hom's articles are in the August and September 2004 Mainline Modeler.

Ted Cullota covered the X29 in his Essential Freight Car series (#35 and #36) in the January and February 2007 RMC

Richard Hendrickson covered the X29 in....

OK, 34 articles listed for X29 in the Trains index:
http://trc.trains.com/Train%20Magazine%20Index.aspx?view=SearchResults&q=X29

And another 21 pages of articles if you incorrectly add the dash between X and 29:
http://trc.trains.com/Train%20Magazine%20Index.aspx?view=SearchResults&q=X-29

I've got a lot of reading to catch up on. :-(

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@... or Arved@...
Fleming Island, Florida

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 1/22/15, 'George A. Walls' atsf1226@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Subject: [STMFC] X29 articles
To: "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: Thursday, January 22, 2015, 1:20 PM


 










Ben,Where do I
find the TKM articles you're referring too.
ThanksGeorge
Walls









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