Date   

Re: National Type B Truck Longevity

Ian Cranstone
 


On 2015-01-30, at 4:34 PM, ealabhan0@... [STMFC] wrote:

 
The National Type B truck, while not as popular as the conventional AAR design, was nevertheless used on a number of freight car orders from Class I railroads and private owners.  I have two Resin Car Works ACF Type 27 acid tank cars on order, including one for Hooker Chemicals.  The Barriger Library's online builder photo of HOKX 219 clearly shows National Type B trucks, as built by ACF 12-39.  The question arose in my mind as to whether this car, and various others (i.e., ATSF Bx-37, SFRD Rr-29 and Rr-30, etc.), would have retained these trucks up through my 1958 modeling era, or if there had been some later prohibition against them as with the Allied Full Cushion trucks?  I found nothing in searching STMFC Files and Conversations.  Anyone know of any regulatory action, or of any reliability, maintenance, and/or cost factor that affected the service life of this distinctive truck, or National's revised Type B-1 version?

I don't know about a prohibition, but Canadian National decided in later years that they were not a fan of the design.  There were notes on a few diagram sheets by the 1970s that National B-1 trucks were not to be applied when cars were refurbished.



National Type B Truck Longevity

David Sieber
 

Group,

The National Type B truck, while not as popular as the conventional AAR design, was nevertheless used on a number of freight car orders from Class I railroads and private owners.  I have two Resin Car Works ACF Type 27 acid tank cars on order, including one for Hooker Chemicals.  The Barriger Library's online builder photo of HOKX 219 clearly shows National Type B trucks, as built by ACF 12-39.  The question arose in my mind as to whether this car, and various others (i.e., ATSF Bx-37, SFRD Rr-29 and Rr-30, etc.), would have retained these trucks up through my 1958 modeling era, or if there had been some later prohibition against them as with the Allied Full Cushion trucks?  I found nothing in searching STMFC Files and Conversations.  Anyone know of any regulatory action, or of any reliability, maintenance, and/or cost factor that affected the service life of this distinctive truck, or National's revised Type B-1 version?

Thanks in advance, Dave Sieber, Reno NV




wood freight car kits

ed_mines
 

Jeff Pellas is right. You have to pick the kits to build.


Some will look like crap no matter what & some will be real gems.


Sealing wood to look like metal is difficult.


I visited Bob Weaver in the early '80s. He was a giant guy and would have been even among professional football players.


He had many of his kits built and on display and each one was magnificent.


A couple of other observations from e bay -


- there were more excellent kit builders than I thought


- ditto for guys doing weathering; I even copy the photos


- some modelers use a coating that fogs (gets cloudy) as weathering - it looks overdone & reduces the value of the cars


- at least one person buys inexpensive kits and them  tries to resell them; I hope he buys a lot of junk


- cost of shipping has a lot to do with salability of kits


Ed Mines


Re: e bay chuckle

Doug Pillow
 

Have built two of the  Quality craft wood CF N&W cabooses over the years. Very accurate with the correct underframe. AMB kit has Athearn caboose under frame, I plan on replacing it with stryene when I build it.
 
                                                                                                                                Doug Pillow


Re: e bay chuckle

Andy Harman
 

I never really thought about just filling in the grooves.  

I still can't believe anyone still uses Squadron.

I think I'm going to pull out the kit and start troweling some Cypox on the sides.

Sent from my overpriced graham cracker

On Jan 29, 2015, at 11:49 PM, "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

The Q1 2015 edition of the NYC Modeler has an article by Seth Larkin on building some AMB kits and he converted one to a plywood sided car with Squadron white putty to fill in the grooves.  It seemed to work fairly nicely.  I suppose that you could also contact AMB to see if they would cut plywood sides for you...

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 10:35 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] e bay chuckle



Andy the sides in the AMB kit may not be reversible, depending upon window placement, etc. It they are exact duplicates you could swap the two sides and have the smooth side out. But more they are not exact duplicates, in which case you would be better off using the sides as patterns to cut smooth sides out of styrene. Then you have the task of attaching styrene to wood.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org




Re: e bay chuckle

Andy Harman
 

Yeah styrene will be the answer.  I may cut other parts in plastic as well, depends on what I find.

Sent from my overpriced graham cracker

On Jan 29, 2015, at 11:35 PM, "'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Andy the sides in the AMB kit may not be reversible, depending upon window placement, etc. It they are exact duplicates you could swap the two sides and have the smooth side out. But more they are not exact duplicates, in which case you would be better off using the sides as patterns to cut smooth sides out of styrene. Then you have the task of attaching styrene to wood.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: e bay chuckle

Andy Harman
 

The only N&W caboose available in plastic is the P2K northeast.  In spite of the variety that's the only one that can be correct out if the box.  Atlas makes a good stand-in for the C31 that is easily fixed, and an ok stand-in for the C8/C9 that can't be fixed.  The N&W "family"
Cabooses - CF, CG, CH, C30, C30A - not in plastic but OMI has done them.

IIRC BLI announced a CF around the time they released the H2 hoppers and Y6B but it never materialized.  I have the brass CH and C30A.

Sent from my overpriced graham cracker

On Jan 30, 2015, at 9:29 AM, "David Bott dbott@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Sides are not reversible due to 'toilet' window. Also not sure whether peel and stick details would work with wall inside out. Aren't there plastic versions of plywood side CF?

Fortunately I need the as is CF for the  two the A&Y purchased. I have a partially built AMB and a painted brass version. Then I moved the date for my layout back 7 years before the cabs were used on the A&Y. 

I have a QC cab kitbashed by a friend to represent the ex-RF&P cab used in the 30s along with rented Southern woodies for A&Y.  The QC metal castings worked well, but even for usual sick built wood sides my friend substituted styrene.

I have some vent box wood cars I purchased built at a flea market, but I also prefer to build in styrene. I like uniform density and fracture properties. I don't like having to 'commune' with materials to know how they warp, cut or fracture!

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Jan 29, 2015, at 10:36 PM, Andy Harman gsgondola@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I just remembered... I have an AMB Laserkit of an N&W CF caboose.  This is one I have attempted three times to build from a QC kit- twice in HO scale and once in O scale.  All failed.

Thing is, I will be modeling a CF as rebuilt with plywood sides.  Not sure if I can reverse the sides so the smooth side is out, or just make them from styrene.

I also have a brass CF... NJI I think, never painted it.

Sent from my overpriced graham cracker

On Jan 29, 2015, at 6:04 PM, "Jeff Pellas jppellas@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

All I can say is, even though they're interesting, you do have to be choosy when tackling one of those old wood kits --- and be ready to improvise. That's why I'm a member of this forum. I need the prototype knowledge to be able to discern which of those kits is worth trying and which to pass over. I determine this by how accurate a model I can get given the limitations of the kit.  
      I've put a lot of work, recently, into a kit that dates from the late 1930s by a company called Comet. The prototype is a Wabash 40' SS, double door auto car with 3-3-3 Dreadnaught ends. The original kit consisted of a wood body, a single piece of wood for the underframe, I single turned piece if wood for the K brake cylinder/reservoir, a wooden peaked roof, stamped copper roof ribs, and several very thin flat pieces of wood that I was required to cut into various lengths to make the roof walk details. The sides and ends were of embossed card stock. Ladder was brass ladder stock and brake wheel was, I think, cast metal.
     There were some structural accuracy problems and many detail deficiencies with this kit --on top of it being very primitive-- but the one thing about it that made me decide to build it was that I was able to determine that the embossed sides were accurately lettered and numbered. I've made massive changes to the kit and I'm about 90% finished with it now but I'm satisfied enough with how this has turned out that I'm going to build another Comet kit of a similar car by Grand Trunk Western. 



-----Original Message-----
From: ed_mines@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thu, Jan 29, 2015 2:57 pm
Subject: [STMFC] e bay chuckle



Jeff, I like wood kits too but those Ambroid covered hoppers are horrific and there are many nice plastic kits of similar cars.

The screen roof walks look just like screens (not like roof walks) and are always bent.

Getting rid of the wood grain is always troublesome  when wood is made to look like steel. 

How 'bout that D&H caboose? The  windows on that end look like windows in an armored car.

Ed Mines



Re: e bay chuckle

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Sides are not reversible due to 'toilet' window. Also not sure whether peel and stick details would work with wall inside out. Aren't there plastic versions of plywood side CF?

Fortunately I need the as is CF for the  two the A&Y purchased. I have a partially built AMB and a painted brass version. Then I moved the date for my layout back 7 years before the cabs were used on the A&Y. 

I have a QC cab kitbashed by a friend to represent the ex-RF&P cab used in the 30s along with rented Southern woodies for A&Y.  The QC metal castings worked well, but even for usual sick built wood sides my friend substituted styrene.

I have some vent box wood cars I purchased built at a flea market, but I also prefer to build in styrene. I like uniform density and fracture properties. I don't like having to 'commune' with materials to know how they warp, cut or fracture!

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Jan 29, 2015, at 10:36 PM, Andy Harman gsgondola@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I just remembered... I have an AMB Laserkit of an N&W CF caboose.  This is one I have attempted three times to build from a QC kit- twice in HO scale and once in O scale.  All failed.

Thing is, I will be modeling a CF as rebuilt with plywood sides.  Not sure if I can reverse the sides so the smooth side is out, or just make them from styrene.

I also have a brass CF... NJI I think, never painted it.

Sent from my overpriced graham cracker

On Jan 29, 2015, at 6:04 PM, "Jeff Pellas jppellas@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

All I can say is, even though they're interesting, you do have to be choosy when tackling one of those old wood kits --- and be ready to improvise. That's why I'm a member of this forum. I need the prototype knowledge to be able to discern which of those kits is worth trying and which to pass over. I determine this by how accurate a model I can get given the limitations of the kit.  
      I've put a lot of work, recently, into a kit that dates from the late 1930s by a company called Comet. The prototype is a Wabash 40' SS, double door auto car with 3-3-3 Dreadnaught ends. The original kit consisted of a wood body, a single piece of wood for the underframe, I single turned piece if wood for the K brake cylinder/reservoir, a wooden peaked roof, stamped copper roof ribs, and several very thin flat pieces of wood that I was required to cut into various lengths to make the roof walk details. The sides and ends were of embossed card stock. Ladder was brass ladder stock and brake wheel was, I think, cast metal.
     There were some structural accuracy problems and many detail deficiencies with this kit --on top of it being very primitive-- but the one thing about it that made me decide to build it was that I was able to determine that the embossed sides were accurately lettered and numbered. I've made massive changes to the kit and I'm about 90% finished with it now but I'm satisfied enough with how this has turned out that I'm going to build another Comet kit of a similar car by Grand Trunk Western. 



-----Original Message-----
From: ed_mines@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thu, Jan 29, 2015 2:57 pm
Subject: [STMFC] e bay chuckle



Jeff, I like wood kits too but those Ambroid covered hoppers are horrific and there are many nice plastic kits of similar cars.

The screen roof walks look just like screens (not like roof walks) and are always bent.

Getting rid of the wood grain is always troublesome  when wood is made to look like steel. 

How 'bout that D&H caboose? The  windows on that end look like windows in an armored car.

Ed Mines



Re: e bay chuckle

Bruce Smith
 

The Q1 2015 edition of the NYC Modeler has an article by Seth Larkin on building some AMB kits and he converted one to a plywood sided car with Squadron white putty to fill in the grooves.  It seemed to work fairly nicely.  I suppose that you could also contact AMB to see if they would cut plywood sides for you...

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 10:35 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] e bay chuckle



Andy the sides in the AMB kit may not be reversible, depending upon window placement, etc. It they are exact duplicates you could swap the two sides and have the smooth side out. But more they are not exact duplicates, in which case you would be better off using the sides as patterns to cut smooth sides out of styrene. Then you have the task of attaching styrene to wood.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org




Re: e bay chuckle

Douglas Harding
 

Andy the sides in the AMB kit may not be reversible, depending upon window placement, etc. It they are exact duplicates you could swap the two sides and have the smooth side out. But more they are not exact duplicates, in which case you would be better off using the sides as patterns to cut smooth sides out of styrene. Then you have the task of attaching styrene to wood.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: e bay chuckle

Andy Harman
 

I just remembered... I have an AMB Laserkit of an N&W CF caboose.  This is one I have attempted three times to build from a QC kit- twice in HO scale and once in O scale.  All failed.

Thing is, I will be modeling a CF as rebuilt with plywood sides.  Not sure if I can reverse the sides so the smooth side is out, or just make them from styrene.

I also have a brass CF... NJI I think, never painted it.

Sent from my overpriced graham cracker

On Jan 29, 2015, at 6:04 PM, "Jeff Pellas jppellas@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

All I can say is, even though they're interesting, you do have to be choosy when tackling one of those old wood kits --- and be ready to improvise. That's why I'm a member of this forum. I need the prototype knowledge to be able to discern which of those kits is worth trying and which to pass over. I determine this by how accurate a model I can get given the limitations of the kit.  
      I've put a lot of work, recently, into a kit that dates from the late 1930s by a company called Comet. The prototype is a Wabash 40' SS, double door auto car with 3-3-3 Dreadnaught ends. The original kit consisted of a wood body, a single piece of wood for the underframe, I single turned piece if wood for the K brake cylinder/reservoir, a wooden peaked roof, stamped copper roof ribs, and several very thin flat pieces of wood that I was required to cut into various lengths to make the roof walk details. The sides and ends were of embossed card stock. Ladder was brass ladder stock and brake wheel was, I think, cast metal.
     There were some structural accuracy problems and many detail deficiencies with this kit --on top of it being very primitive-- but the one thing about it that made me decide to build it was that I was able to determine that the embossed sides were accurately lettered and numbered. I've made massive changes to the kit and I'm about 90% finished with it now but I'm satisfied enough with how this has turned out that I'm going to build another Comet kit of a similar car by Grand Trunk Western. 



-----Original Message-----
From: ed_mines@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thu, Jan 29, 2015 2:57 pm
Subject: [STMFC] e bay chuckle



Jeff, I like wood kits too but those Ambroid covered hoppers are horrific and there are many nice plastic kits of similar cars.

The screen roof walks look just like screens (not like roof walks) and are always bent.

Getting rid of the wood grain is always troublesome  when wood is made to look like steel. 

How 'bout that D&H caboose? The  windows on that end look like windows in an armored car.

Ed Mines



Re: e bay chuckle

Andy Harman
 

In the 1970s Quality Craft made a PRR 50' auto box car with end doors.  A local guy built one up and had it on display at the LHS.  It did the job, I bought the kit and some scalecoat sanding sealer.  I really gave it the old college try, but I was never satisfied with the prepping of the wood.  It had cast ends so I did'nt have to worry about that.

I never got any farther with it... Today I would use the cast parts and build the rest with styrene shapes.  How do you surface sand a piece of spaghetti wood?  My answer is... I don't.  Fortunately I didn't mangle the kit to where I Couldn't sell it.  

Also attempted a QC well flat car that had cast end beams and you had to shape the sides around them... And to represent a welded stiffener they gave you a piece of cardstock.  I got farther with that one but eventually parked and ebayed it 25 years later.

Wood is like shooting film when you've got a nice digital camera.  Except I will still shoot film for fun.  I will work with wood if it's for furniture, benchwork, or other 1:1 utility.  But for models plastic is king.

Sent from my overpriced graham cracker

On Jan 29, 2015, at 6:04 PM, "Jeff Pellas jppellas@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

All I can say is, even though they're interesting, you do have to be choosy when tackling one of those old wood kits --- and be ready to improvise. That's why I'm a member of this forum. I need the prototype knowledge to be able to discern which of those kits is worth trying and which to pass over. I determine this by how accurate a model I can get given the limitations of the kit.  
      I've put a lot of work, recently, into a kit that dates from the late 1930s by a company called Comet. The prototype is a Wabash 40' SS, double door auto car with 3-3-3 Dreadnaught ends. The original kit consisted of a wood body, a single piece of wood for the underframe, I single turned piece if wood for the K brake cylinder/reservoir, a wooden peaked roof, stamped copper roof ribs, and several very thin flat pieces of wood that I was required to cut into various lengths to make the roof walk details. The sides and ends were of embossed card stock. Ladder was brass ladder stock and brake wheel was, I think, cast metal.
     There were some structural accuracy problems and many detail deficiencies with this kit --on top of it being very primitive-- but the one thing about it that made me decide to build it was that I was able to determine that the embossed sides were accurately lettered and numbered. I've made massive changes to the kit and I'm about 90% finished with it now but I'm satisfied enough with how this has turned out that I'm going to build another Comet kit of a similar car by Grand Trunk Western. 



-----Original Message-----
From: ed_mines@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thu, Jan 29, 2015 2:57 pm
Subject: [STMFC] e bay chuckle



Jeff, I like wood kits too but those Ambroid covered hoppers are horrific and there are many nice plastic kits of similar cars.

The screen roof walks look just like screens (not like roof walks) and are always bent.

Getting rid of the wood grain is always troublesome  when wood is made to look like steel. 

How 'bout that D&H caboose? The  windows on that end look like windows in an armored car.

Ed Mines



Re: e bay chuckle

Mikebrock
 

Bill Welch writes:

"I think it would be very interesting to have an Album dedicated to photos of wood models as a part of this Yahoo discussion group."

I have to say that one of the best wood models that I have seen is the Quality Craft UP CA-1 caboose. UP modelers have been blessed with quite a few nice renditions of CA-1 cabooses and the old Quality Craft hangs in pretty well with its various brass competitors.

I have to also say that I have a soft spot [ in my brain? ] for the old Silver Streak DS box car [ USRA?], particularly the Frisco version with Frisco Fast Freight emblazoned on its side...although I believe I determined that such a logo never appeared on the car.

Mike Brock...what hapened? Is it 1953 again?


Re: e bay chuckle

Bill Welch
 

FYI the Wabash DD SS cars had Radial roofs.

I think it would be very interesting to have an Album dedicated to photos of wood models as a part of this Yahoo discussion group.

Bill Welch


Re: e bay chuckle

Jeff Pellas <jppellas@...>
 

All I can say is, even though they're interesting, you do have to be choosy when tackling one of those old wood kits --- and be ready to improvise. That's why I'm a member of this forum. I need the prototype knowledge to be able to discern which of those kits is worth trying and which to pass over. I determine this by how accurate a model I can get given the limitations of the kit.  
      I've put a lot of work, recently, into a kit that dates from the late 1930s by a company called Comet. The prototype is a Wabash 40' SS, double door auto car with 3-3-3 Dreadnaught ends. The original kit consisted of a wood body, a single piece of wood for the underframe, I single turned piece if wood for the K brake cylinder/reservoir, a wooden peaked roof, stamped copper roof ribs, and several very thin flat pieces of wood that I was required to cut into various lengths to make the roof walk details. The sides and ends were of embossed card stock. Ladder was brass ladder stock and brake wheel was, I think, cast metal.
     There were some structural accuracy problems and many detail deficiencies with this kit --on top of it being very primitive-- but the one thing about it that made me decide to build it was that I was able to determine that the embossed sides were accurately lettered and numbered. I've made massive changes to the kit and I'm about 90% finished with it now but I'm satisfied enough with how this has turned out that I'm going to build another Comet kit of a similar car by Grand Trunk Western. 

Jeff
jppellas@...


-----Original Message-----
From: ed_mines@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Thu, Jan 29, 2015 2:57 pm
Subject: [STMFC] e bay chuckle



Jeff, I like wood kits too but those Ambroid covered hoppers are horrific and there are many nice plastic kits of similar cars.

The screen roof walks look just like screens (not like roof walks) and are always bent.

Getting rid of the wood grain is always troublesome  when wood is made to look like steel. 

How 'bout that D&H caboose? The  windows on that end look like windows in an armored car.

Ed Mines



Custom Decal Maker

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

Recently we were moaning about how many decal makers had folded their tents for good. Today on page 42 in the Jan/Feb 2015 NG&SLG I saw an add for one I've never heard of: Cedarleaf Custom Decals at scedarleaf@aol.com (yes, the "s" is part of their address). As I have no current need for custom decals, I will let someone else be the first to order from them, if they are indeed a new player. Otherwise, does anybody have any experience with them?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


e bay chuckle

ed_mines
 

Jeff, I like wood kits too but those Ambroid covered hoppers are horrific and there are many nice plastic kits of similar cars.


The screen roof walks look just like screens (not like roof walks) and are always bent.


Getting rid of the wood grain is always troublesome  when wood is made to look like steel. 


How 'bout that D&H caboose? The  windows on that end look like windows in an armored car.


Ed Mines


Re: Ex-Model Die Casting ARA Cast Steel truck w/Spring Plank

Bill Welch
 

Thank you Scott, I found them on the Athearn website.

Bill Welch


Re: Book: Freight Car Distribution & Car Handling In The United States

Scott H. Haycock
 

Another option is to "Bookmark" the site on your browser. This way you can read it without downloading it to your hard drive and taking up space that may have better uses.

Scott Haycock


 

Rupert Gamlen wrote:

 

Unless you are a "member" you can only download single pages. The flip side - when compared with Archive - is that the electronic search facility is very good.


  The book can still be readily found on the Internet from used book sellers for reasonable prices. I personally like the ability to use the physical features of a book for reading and looking up details.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Book: Freight Car Distribution & Car Handling In The United States

Tony Thompson
 

Rupert Gamlen wrote:

 

Unless you are a "member" you can only download single pages. The flip side - when compared with Archive - is that the electronic search facility is very good.


  The book can still be readily found on the Internet from used book sellers for reasonable prices. I personally like the ability to use the physical features of a book for reading and looking up details.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




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