Date   

HO 36" semi-scale wheel sets by Branchline-$0.60/axle

Andy Carlson
 

Hi-
I have dozens of bulk (no packaging) HO 36" semi-scale code 88 wheel sets by Branchline Trains. These wheels would be found under 100-ton cars, or in the trucks of passenger cars. These were made for Branchline Trains by the same company which made Intermountain's wheels. Have pointed axles, and blackened turned metal wheels.

Offered at $0.60/axle. Buyer to pay $3.50 shipping for one or more axles. If interested, contact me off-list (please) at

thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: undecorated Intermountain kits for sale

golden1014
 

Hi Gene,

I am in the market for an AB- brake ATSF stock car.  Do you have one left?

Thanks!
John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL


Re: 5'2" archbar trucks

Arianne Coble
 

It is fun you should bring this
up. I couldn’t find any 5-2 trucks so just
recently I drew some up and had Shapeways print them. I have posted a picture that shows the
difference between my 5-2 printed truck (on the left) and a Tahoe 5-0 truck (on
the right). As you can see there is very
little difference in size. My truck is a
little fragile and I don’t know how well it will hold up under operation. Unless you want a 5-2 truck for a model to
photograph I would go with the Tahoe 5-0 truck. It looks nice and should operate well for a long time.
Kyle Coble Auburn Indiana


Re: 5'2" archbar trucks

Todd Horton
 

That’s .022” in HO Scale, you must have good eyes. J  Todd Horton

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 4:39 AM
To: Steam Era Freight Cars
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 5'2" archbar trucks

 

 

If there,s one thing I learned from Richard about trucks, it's that there were a lot of foundries manufacturing trucks to (more or less) common designs. Unless the trucks you are looking for had a significant difference in appearance from the Tahoe trucks, I wouldn't sweat the 2" difference in wheelbase! There are probably more dimensional differences in the rest of the model that you want to add the trucks to, than 2"....

 

Scott Haycock

 


 

 

Stop torturing me!

 

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

 

 

 


Re: stock car floors

Scott H. Haycock
 

I agree. 

The previous mention of concrete floors in passenger cars is about  the "creature comfort" of the passengers. I doubt livestock were afforded such consideration. This looks like a cementitious coating, roughly applied, to prevent slippage of the livestock's footing. After all, the transport of the animals, in a hale and healthy condition, would be paramount.     

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment


 

But is the caption correct?  We don't know whether it's based on a notation on the photo, or other source documents, or just that the writer thought he saw a concrete floor in the photo. 


The side view of 45650 clearly shows the board ends of a typical wood floor, with the distinctive scuppers in the lowest side board just above the top surface of the floor. A photo of 45971 in the '43 Cyc shows the same. While the interior view seems to be a different car in the series (45757?), and could perhaps be a one-off experiment with concrete, I think the likelihood is that the floor is what it looks like: wood with a coating of asphaltic mastic with coarse granules for a non-skid surface.  FWIW, the CBC caption had no mention of any unusual flooring.

Jack Mullen



Re: 5'2" archbar trucks

Scott H. Haycock
 

If there,s one thing I learned from Richard about trucks, it's that there were a lot of foundries manufacturing trucks to (more or less) common designs. Unless the trucks you are looking for had a significant difference in appearance from the Tahoe trucks, I wouldn't sweat the 2" difference in wheelbase! There are probably more dimensional differences in the rest of the model that you want to add the trucks to, than 2"....

Scott Haycock


 


Stop torturing me!
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
 
 


Re: stock car floors

Jack Mullen
 

But is the caption correct?  We don't know whether it's based on a notation on the photo, or other source documents, or just that the writer thought he saw a concrete floor in the photo. 

The side view of 45650 clearly shows the board ends of a typical wood floor, with the distinctive scuppers in the lowest side board just above the top surface of the floor. A photo of 45971 in the '43 Cyc shows the same. While the interior view seems to be a different car in the series (45757?), and could perhaps be a one-off experiment with concrete, I think the likelihood is that the floor is what it looks like: wood with a coating of asphaltic mastic with coarse granules for a non-skid surface.  FWIW, the CBC caption had no mention of any unusual flooring.

Jack Mullen


Re: 5'2" archbar trucks

Richard Townsend
 

Stop torturing me!
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Spen Kellogg spninetynine@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Sat, Feb 14, 2015 8:47 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 5'2" archbar trucks

Richard,

I can't give you a source, but I can say, yes, there were 5' 2" wheelbase arch bar trucks.

The ones I have are marked Japan on the bottom of one arm of the bolster. The wheel sets appears to be pre-RP25 in terms of the flange shape. They look a lot like cookie cutter flanges, only not as deep. They are a little deeper than the flanges on Reboxx wheel sets. The wheels and axles are a bright polished silver color with the insulation on one wheel a gray colored plastic. The trucks are sprung and the side frames are a very clean casting. They look a lot like Central Valley arch bars, only the bolsters do not have the hexagonical inset that my Central Valley trucks have (which incidentally are 5' wheel base).

I'm sorry I can't identify the brand.

Spen Kellogg


Re: 5'2" archbar trucks

Spen Kellogg <spninetynine@...>
 

On 2/14/2015 8:57 PM, richtownsend@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Does anyone know of a source for 5'2" wheelbase archbar trucks? I looked at Richard Hendrickson's trucks article, and see that Tahoe make 5'0" archbars, but it appears that all of the others shown are 5'6". Tahoe may have to do, but I am hoping for something right on at 5'2".

Richard,

I can't give you a source, but I can say, yes, there were 5' 2" wheelbase arch bar trucks.

The ones I have are marked Japan on the bottom of one arm of the bolster. The wheel sets appears to be pre-RP25 in terms of the flange shape. They look a lot like cookie cutter flanges, only not as deep. They are a little deeper than the flanges on Reboxx wheel sets. The wheels and axles are a bright polished silver color with the insulation on one wheel a gray colored plastic. The trucks are sprung and the side frames are a very clean casting. They look a lot like Central Valley arch bars, only the bolsters do not have the hexagonical inset that my Central Valley trucks have (which incidentally are 5' wheel base).

I'm sorry I can't identify the brand.

Spen Kellogg


5'2" archbar trucks

Richard Townsend
 

Does anyone know of a source for 5'2" wheelbase archbar trucks? I looked at Richard Hendrickson's trucks article, and see that Tahoe make 5'0" archbars, but it appears that all of the others shown are 5'6". Tahoe may have to do, but I am hoping for something right on at 5'2".
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
 


"Woodsmith Shop" on PBS

Bill Welch
 

The last few Saturday afternoons I have been watching the "Woodsmith Shop" on one of the PBS channels here and todays' episode #813 from 2014 focused on measuring tools, tips and techniques. I suspect it can be found online too.


Bill Welch



Re: rough sawn versus finished lumber

Tom Vanwormer
 

By the way, the specs to St. Charles Car Co. for Colorado Midland house cars in 1886 called for the lumber used for the roofwalks to be painted with the standard box car paint with 8 ounces of sand per gallon of paint to supply traction for the employees.

Tom VanWormer
Monument CO
tgregmrtn@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Ed,
 
Being in the lumber industry as long as I have been le me try to wader through this in context
 
 
Ed Mines writes:
 

"Were roof walk boards rough sawn? They would be cheaper and the rough surface would provide greater traction. Could those roof walks boards be second grade lumber with knots?"

 

Rough sawn? You must mean FULL SAWN vs. ROUGH SAWN because the answer is yes if the supplier specification was "nominal to 23/32" rough or surfaced. Full sawn would have been 1-inch plus or minus and no regard as to all boards being exactly the same, just roughly... My guess would be that there was a spec for "rough sawn to nominal" if the end user would allow it. The other option could have been S1S2E or surfaced one side and two edges which would have allowed for a rough face. But all this is unlikely as most spec's would have read S4S ~ surfaced four sides to keep the boards when applied uniform.  The quality would have been very specific with reference to grade as well. Likely mostly some form of "clears" or "uppers" i.e. "D&btr ~ no hole" a very common industrial grade. Look at the photo that Tim O'Connor posted of the inside view of the Southern stock car and look at the sides. To me that represents Kiln Dried Southern Yellow pine D&btr no hole S4S EE.


"How about boards used for siding on open top cars? No need for a tight seal on these. I recall a photo of a  CNJ wood side gondola with light peeking out between 2 side boards."

 

That is a photo I would like to see, because that was not what was intended in my thoughts. Mother Nature will takes her toll though.


"Looking at an erection drawing of a single sheathed box car, I was surprised to find the horizontal side boards were tongue and groove.  Was this common?"

 

Yes absolutely, in order to keep the house car "tight" you would need that or at least ship lapped. Tongues up and Grooves down if the sheathing was horizontal. Tongue and Groove (T&G) for horizontal siding as well of the best quality.


"Some builders photos of single sheathed box cars show the horizontal boards so tight that you can barely tell one board from the next. No room for expansion on these."

 
You must mean no visible room for expansion. The patterns allowed for expansion but once primed and painted the expansion may have been noticed at close proximity by a small crack in the paint. Most photos I have seen of single sheathed car appear to but T&G Butt Joint and have no "VEE" to the pattern. But again Mother Nature does take it's toll. From my observation most cars in lengthy service show the lower board to remain tight verses the upper boards showing more signs of expansion and one can only speculate as to why. But even a car that was shopped after many years of service seem to bring it right back to where it was as build. Shops crew in the mid point of our era covered were done by "crafts" thus meaning to me craftsmen, so obviously things were done right. Post war labor became the evil villains and "crafts" were less necessary to the railroads, but that is a personal opinion.  

"Finally, I assume most vertical boards on the outside of  double sheathed house cars were tongue and groove, right?"

Yes absolutely, and double pattern "car siding" in the rule books and in most cases in our era, no sense in trying to cover 40-feet of car with 1"x 3' boards when you could do it with 1"x 6" boards with the same effect as individual boards.

The VEE grooves used were very slight ~ unless they were replaced at a later date from another manufacturer (read as mill) that's knives were cut slightly different than that of the original (but remember there we national rules for this as well, reference the ALS). I have seen replacement boards where the pattern were either completely different from the original (in an effort of economizing, 1"x 6" VEE groove) or single pattern replacement (1"x 3" VEE Groove) vs. double pattern replacement (i.e. 1"x 6" C&CV ~~ VEE and Center VEE) . That doesn't seem to be all that uncommon. And there are different patterns spec's for VEE and Center VEE with regards to the size of the VEE. But car siding was specific just as was water tank stock and casket stock.

There is an ex-GN (I believe it is) cabin car in Medford, OR that exhibits all three example and it is old enough that I believe it was done by the GN shops, again in an effort to economize. The same it true with the PRR NX23 in Urbana, Ohio. Worst yet is the ex-D&H single sheathed are at the Orange Empire Railway Museum and I am sure there are other examples. I am not sure why a better restoration efforts were not made during the rehab of these types equipment before hand.   


Ed Mines

Regards,
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean


Re: rough sawn versus finished lumber

Greg Martin
 

Ed,
 
Being in the lumber industry as long as I have been le me try to wader through this in context
 
 
Ed Mines writes:

 

"Were roof walk boards rough sawn? They would be cheaper and the rough surface would provide greater traction. Could those roof walks boards be second grade lumber with knots?"

 

Rough sawn? You must mean FULL SAWN vs. ROUGH SAWN because the answer is yes if the supplier specification was "nominal to 23/32" rough or surfaced. Full sawn would have been 1-inch plus or minus and no regard as to all boards being exactly the same, just roughly... My guess would be that there was a spec for "rough sawn to nominal" if the end user would allow it. The other option could have been S1S2E or surfaced one side and two edges which would have allowed for a rough face. But all this is unlikely as most spec's would have read S4S ~ surfaced four sides to keep the boards when applied uniform.  The quality would have been very specific with reference to grade as well. Likely mostly some form of "clears" or "uppers" i.e. "D&btr ~ no hole" a very common industrial grade. Look at the photo that Tim O'Connor posted of the inside view of the Southern stock car and look at the sides. To me that represents Kiln Dried Southern Yellow pine D&btr no hole S4S EE.


"How about boards used for siding on open top cars? No need for a tight seal on these. I recall a photo of a  CNJ wood side gondola with light peeking out between 2 side boards."

 

That is a photo I would like to see, because that was not what was intended in my thoughts. Mother Nature will takes her toll though.


"Looking at an erection drawing of a single sheathed box car, I was surprised to find the horizontal side boards were tongue and groove.  Was this common?"

 

Yes absolutely, in order to keep the house car "tight" you would need that or at least ship lapped. Tongues up and Grooves down if the sheathing was horizontal. Tongue and Groove (T&G) for horizontal siding as well of the best quality.


"Some builders photos of single sheathed box cars show the horizontal boards so tight that you can barely tell one board from the next. No room for expansion on these."

 
You must mean no visible room for expansion. The patterns allowed for expansion but once primed and painted the expansion may have been noticed at close proximity by a small crack in the paint. Most photos I have seen of single sheathed car appear to but T&G Butt Joint and have no "VEE" to the pattern. But again Mother Nature does take it's toll. From my observation most cars in lengthy service show the lower board to remain tight verses the upper boards showing more signs of expansion and one can only speculate as to why. But even a car that was shopped after many years of service seem to bring it right back to where it was as build. Shops crew in the mid point of our era covered were done by "crafts" thus meaning to me craftsmen, so obviously things were done right. Post war labor became the evil villains and "crafts" were less necessary to the railroads, but that is a personal opinion.  

"Finally, I assume most vertical boards on the outside of  double sheathed house cars were tongue and groove, right?"

Yes absolutely, and double pattern "car siding" in the rule books and in most cases in our era, no sense in trying to cover 40-feet of car with 1"x 3' boards when you could do it with 1"x 6" boards with the same effect as individual boards.

The VEE grooves used were very slight ~ unless they were replaced at a later date from another manufacturer (read as mill) that's knives were cut slightly different than that of the original (but remember there we national rules for this as well, reference the ALS). I have seen replacement boards where the pattern were either completely different from the original (in an effort of economizing, 1"x 6" VEE groove) or single pattern replacement (1"x 3" VEE Groove) vs. double pattern replacement (i.e. 1"x 6" C&CV ~~ VEE and Center VEE) . That doesn't seem to be all that uncommon. And there are different patterns spec's for VEE and Center VEE with regards to the size of the VEE. But car siding was specific just as was water tank stock and casket stock.

There is an ex-GN (I believe it is) cabin car in Medford, OR that exhibits all three example and it is old enough that I believe it was done by the GN shops, again in an effort to economize. The same it true with the PRR NX23 in Urbana, Ohio. Worst yet is the ex-D&H single sheathed are at the Orange Empire Railway Museum and I am sure there are other examples. I am not sure why a better restoration efforts were not made during the rehab of these types equipment before hand.   


Ed Mines

Regards,
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean


Re: EJ&E 2-bay offset hopper car

Tim O'Connor
 

Perhaps for coke, inter-plant movements? I was in South Chicago about 5-6 years
ago and saw some ancient 1940's/1950's hoppers and gondolas that appeared to still
be in use with steel plant markings on them.

Tim O'Connor

Does anyone know where these cars were generally loaded? I assume they bought them for on line customers. Todd Horton


Re: rough sawn versus finished lumber

Tony Thompson
 

Some builders photos of single sheathed box cars show the horizontal boards so tight that you can barely tell one board from the next. No room for expansion on these.


 Expansion was not the issue. The wood continued to dry out, and shrank over its first couple of years in service. In fact, that was the reason for the Fowler patent superstructure framing, that it could readily be adjusted to snug up the wood sheathing. The same shrinkage caused weight loss, thus the requirement for such cars to be reweighed relatively soon after entering service.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





rough sawn versus finished lumber

ed_mines
 

Were roof walk boards rough sawn? They would be cheaper and the rough surface would provide greater traction. Could those roof walks boards be second grade lumber with knots?


How about boards used for siding on open top cars? No need for a tight seal on these. I recall a photo of a  CNJ wood side gondola with light peeking out between 2 side boards.


Iooking at an erection drawing of a single sheathed box car, I was surprised to find the horizontal side boards were tongue and groove.  Was this common?


Some builders photos of single sheathed box cars show the horizontal boards so tight that you can barely tell one board from the next. No room for expansion on these.


Finally, I assume most vertical boards on the outside of double sheathed house cars were tongue and groove, right?


Ed Mines


Re: EJ&E 2-bay offset hopper car

Todd Horton
 

Does anyone know where these cars were generally loaded?  I assume they bought them for on line customers.  Todd Horton

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 3:45 AM
To: stmfc@...
Subject: [STMFC] EJ&E 2-bay offset hopper car

 

 


This car doesn't have all the typical features of an "AAR standard"
design and doesn't have the features of the "AMC standard" either --
Is there a "type" for this car or do I just stash it into the "other"
bucket?

http://columbusrailroads.com/Ralston%20photos/ralston-092-1940-EJ&E.JPG

Tim O'Connor


Re: EJ&E 2-bay offset hopper car

David
 

The EJ&E car in particular is an oddball, due to the nonstandard side post count. The chisel-corner in general was an Enterprise design that they promoted in the trade press.

David Thompson


Re: stock car floors

Douglas Harding
 

Tim disregard my question about the concrete. I backtracked on the link and got to the photo listings, where I see the caption states the car was built with a concrete floor. While heavy weight passenger cars were built with concrete floors, enabling them to provide a smoother ride, this is the first I recall for a freight car. But the extra weight would not be a serious issue for a stock car, as a livestock load never exceeds the weight limit of the car.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: stock car floors

Douglas Harding
 

Tim are you sure it is a concrete floor? Or is it a standard wood floor with a heavy coating of a non-slip surface material? If you have ever been around cattle you know that fresh cow pies can be very slippery, and wet wood can also be very slippery. The combination is very treacherous. So any kind of non-slip surface would be a good thing in a stock car. The floor does look solid, no indication of individual boards. But if the floor is tight, ie new, and the coating is thick enough you might not see the individual boards. Note also the drain holes in the very bottom side board. Is it possible Southern was experimenting with a new flooring surface to give livestock footing?

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

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