Date   

Re: LV 63xxx

Ed Hawkins
 

On Feb 25, 2015, at 8:33 PM, ron.merrick@fluor.com [STMFC] wrote:

One car in particular has a feature I'm checking on.  The LV 40'
boxcars numbered in the 63xxx (sorry, don't know the precise series
because I'm away from home) look in the photos I've found pretty much
like the Branchline model (Branchline 1606, to be precise).  There are
six photos on rr-fallenflags.org.

There are the expected lettering updates.  Some carry a prominent FOR
FLOUR LOADING ONLY stencil.  I presume these cars were built as
general service XM and only later were assigned to flour service.

There is one difference between these cars and a standard Branchline. 
Every picture shows what I can only call an A-Line offset sill step at
each corner, without a sill corner extension.  I know Santa Fe was
fond of these, but my question is, was this an as-built or a later
modification?

I also see roping staples on the bolster sill ends, offset toward the
center of the car, but I'm used to adding these.
Ron,
The LV 40'-6" box cars in question were numbered 63000-63999, 1,000
cars built by Bethlehem Steel Co. (DF 147) in 1950. The BSC builder's
photo of 63000 shows a build date of 8-50 while LV 63542 was built
9-50. The Branchline Trains model is generally accurate for these LV
box cars, however, the prototype cars lacked the four sill tabs under
the ladders. These should be removed as well as the portion wrapping
around the lower corners of the ends (the area where push-pole pockets
are typically located).

The cars followed the 10'-6" postwar A.A.R. design having 10-panel
riveted sides, 7'-wide door openings, Improved Youngstown Steel Doors,
Improved Dreadnaught Ends (1948-1954 IDN version having a top
rectangular corrugation), and diagonal panel roofs. Also used on all
cars were Ajax hand brakes, Apex Tri-lok running boards & brake steps,
and A-3 Ride control trucks originally with A.A.R. cast iron wheels.
Side and end ladders had 7 rungs.

New cars also came with roping staples mounted to the bolster tabs and
offset towards the ends (like is shown in the fallen flags photo of
repainted LV 63102 taken in 1966). The sill steps were the A-Line Type
C.

The builder's photo (not a great photo) was published in the 1957 Car
Builders' Cyclopedia, page 79. Bob's Photo offers LV 63542, side view
in original paint taken by Col. Chet McCoid, 11-13-54, San Diego.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Digital Images - Uni versity of Kentucky’s Digital Li brary

thecitrusbelt@...
 

No, not the same car.

Look at the right end of each car where the Inside Length is stenciled.

The "40-6" lines-up differently on the boards.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: HELP ON TOOL ARTICLE

Scott H. Haycock
 

Bill,

The June 2008 issue has an article on building a movable fence. Is that what you're looking for?

Scott Haycock


 

A number of years back there was an article in RMC concerning
making an X-Y table for the Northwest Shortline riveter. Does
anyone recall what issue this appeared in?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Bill Pardie



Re: Rock Island airslides

Tim O'Connor
 

Scott

I have no evidence of a "pool" in this case -- But there is a very
legible assignment stencil on the Rock Island airslide, and it's assigned
to C&H in Crockett. The car was built in 1957 and the photo was taken in
the 1950's -- reporting marks GACX 43034.

Tim O'




Scott Chatfield wrote:

Two points: I thought was Crockett was a sugar _beet_ refinery. Did C&H also bring  in raw cane from their Hawaiian operations to be refined there? Or was sugar cane
also grown in the Sacramento delta? I thought that was too far north for cane.

       You thought wrong. The C&H 1950s slogan, "Pure Cane Sugar from Hawaii" should tell you what you want to know. The Crockett refinery has since 1906, and still does, process cane sugar exclusively, today over 700,000 tons a year.
       There are indeed sugar beets grown (or were grown) in several parts of California, but they did not go to C&H.

A foreign road assigning cars to a shipper is an example of a car pool. When did pools start? I thought the earliest were around 1960. Autoparts pools are the best
known, but there were other pools, especially serving the big packaged food companies.

        There were pools in the late 1930s, largely agreed by one-on-one agreements, serially among all the roads involved. By 1949, the more familiar kind of pool, in which all participating railroads agreed to a single document, and specific numbers of cars were committed by each pool member, became important for several things, most famously auto parts.

Tony Thompson


HELP ON TOOL ARTICLE

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

A number of years back there was an article in RMC concerning
making an X-Y table for the Northwest Shortline riveter. Does
anyone recall what issue this appeared in?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Bill Pardie


LV 63xxx

mopacfirst
 

I'm working on what I assume will be my last batch of Branchline kits.

 

One car in particular has a feature I'm checking on.  The LV 40' boxcars numbered in the 63xxx (sorry, don't know the precise series because I'm away from home) look in the photos I've found pretty much like the Branchline model (Branchline 1606, to be precise).  There are six photos on rr-fallenflags.org.

 

There are the expected lettering updates.  Some carry a prominent FOR FLOUR LOADING ONLY stencil.  I presume these cars were built as general service XM and only later were assigned to flour service.

 

There is one difference between these cars and a standard Branchline.  Every picture shows what I can only call an A-Line offset sill step at each corner, without a sill corner extension.  I know Santa Fe was fond of these, but my question is, was this an as-built or a later modification?

 

I also see roping staples on the bolster sill ends, offset toward the center of the car, but I'm used to adding these.

 

Anything else I should know about these cars?

 

Ron Merrick



Re: Digital Images - University of Kentucky’s Digital Library

Steven D Johnson
 

Notice in the L&N boxcar photos that the “different car” (#18979) is actually the SAME car as #13979.  The “3” was manipulated into an “8” for some reason. 

 

Steve Johnson

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 11:10 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Digital Images - University of Kentucky’s Digital Library

 

 

Here are some railroad images from the University of Kentucky’s Digital Library at:

 

http://kdl.kyvl.org/

 

Use the slider to enlarges the images.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

+++++

 

UP boxcar with appliance load (1949)

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt7z348gg90h_10_174

 

MP boxcar with heater (?) load (1937)

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_4891_1

 

C&O boxcar (circa 1940s)

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt7z348gg90h_3_344

 

Southern gondola with coal load

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6053_1

 

Southern flatcar with lumber load

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6052_1

 

C&O boxcar (1930)

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_275_1

 

CNO&TP boxcars

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_5818_1

 

Empty hopper cars (1939)

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt75tb0xq06w_1_5

 

Unloading a circus wagon

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt7cjs9h4m2b_95

 

Rutland flatcar with transformer load

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_6137_1

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_6135_1

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_6132_1

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_6134_1

 

L&N boxcars with whiskey loads (1932)

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_1054_1

Same car with banner

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_1058_1

 

Different car

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt702v2c8t1s_1053_1

 

Finally… What is this?

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt7prr1pgv6h_236_14


Re: Digital Images - University of Kentucky's Digital Library

thmsdmpsy
 

Retired cars waiting to be burned.

Tom Dempsey, Spokane, WA


Re: Digital Images - University of Kentucky’s Digit al Library

np328
 

Tom, I think you both and Dennis could be right.

        Your description is correct however, I do believe that the apparatus does give - a signal - in the cab, in the form of a whistle and or indicator light that as you said,  you must acknowledge by moving a lever after  passing the signal and detector, or the brakes will apply in the ATS (Automatic Train Stop) mode.

        Also, I believe the C&NW tested a system using inductors that looked like this as part of the ATC/ATS  congressional mandate in the mid 1920 to 1930 timeframe.


     The C&NW system test did (IIRC) provide cab signaling as it was the ATC (Automatic Train Control) option that allowed the train speed to be factored in.


Everything is so clean in the photo it looks like a staged photo.


       Which kept both the passengers in the passenger trains and the freight cars (required content) in the freight trains safe.                                                         Jim Dick - St. Paul


Re: Digital Images - University of Kentucky’s Digital Library

Tom Birkett <tnbirke@...>
 

Early General Railway Signal Co. Intermittent Inductive Automatic Train Stop. Many NYC E-7s had the later version if you want to compare. Santa Fe and others used the Union Switch and Signal version of this system as does Amtrak on the SW Chief and San Diego service. Not cab signals…if you pass a red or yellow signal without acknowledging it in 5 seconds a penalty stop will be enforced. This one appears to be attached to a tender truck. Or maybe a gas-electric car.

Tom Birkett

Bartlesville, OK

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 12:56 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Digital Images - University of Kentucky’s Digital Library

 

 

 



---In STMFC@..., <thecitrusbelt@...> wrote :

 

Finally… What is this?

Kentucky Digital Library

image

Kentucky Digital Library

About Hosted by the University of Kentucky Contact us: kdl-help@... Contributors:

Preview by Yahoo

 

Looks like the inductive pick up for a cab signal system, note the GRSCo. lettering cast into the cover.

 

Dennis Storzek


Re: Rock Island airslides

Tony Thompson
 

Scott Chatfield wrote:

Two points: I thought was Crockett was a sugar _beet_ refinery. Did C&H also bring  in raw cane from their Hawaiian operations to be refined there? Or was sugar cane
also grown in the Sacramento delta? I thought that was too far north for cane.


       You thought wrong. The C&H 1950s slogan, "Pure Cane Sugar from Hawaii" should tell you what you want to know. The Crockett refinery has since 1906, and still does, process cane sugar exclusively, today over 700,000 tons a year.
       There are indeed sugar beets grown (or were grown) in several parts of California, but they did not go to C&H.

A foreign road assigning cars to a shipper is an example of a car pool. When did pools start? I thought the earliest were around 1960. Autoparts pools are the best
known, but there were other pools, especially serving the big packaged food companies.


        There were pools in the late 1930s, largely agreed by one-on-one agreements, serially among all the roads involved. By 1949, the more familiar kind of pool, in which all participating railroads agreed to a single document, and specific numbers of cars were committed by each pool member, became important for several things, most famously auto parts.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Rock Island airslides

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Tim O' wrote:

Example #1 -- Rock Island assigned some airslides to the California & Hawaiian
Sugar Company in Crockett California -- a thousand miles from any Rock Island line.
The loads were routed back to the Rock Island at Tucumcari New Mexico. This
cane sugar was valuable enough to travel 2,000 miles on a regular basis.
Two points: I thought was Crockett was a sugar _beet_ refinery. Did C&H also bring
in raw cane from their Hawaiian operations to be refined there? Or was sugar cane
also grown in the Sacramento delta? I thought that was too far north for cane.

A foreign road assigning cars to a shipper is an example of a car pool. When did
pools start? I thought the earliest were around 1960. Autoparts pools are the best
known, but there were other pools, especially serving the big packaged food companies.

Scott Chatfield


Re: casting sand (was H30A Covered Hoppers)

Tim O'Connor
 

Al

Sand is an interesting commodity -- silica content and the crystalline structure
vary depending on location. You're describing the "foundry sand" which has good
packing and forming properties. On the other side of the lake, in Wisconsin, are
deposits of high-silica sand that is ideal for high compression applications such
as injection into shale deposits to fracture the rock and release oil & gas. Most
of the "fracking sand" in the US comes from deposits in Wisconsin.

Tim O'Connor

General Motors used a specific sand from an area on the west side of Lake Michigan for
their casting plants in Michigan and upper New York State.

Al Kresse


Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Fw: PRR H30A Covered Hoppers -- casting sand

water.kresse@...
 


General Motors used a specific sand from an area on the west side of Lake Michigan for their casting plants in Michigan and upper New York State.
 
Al Kresse


Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Fw: PRR H30A Covered Hoppers (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Folks;

While I think we all agree that loads like cement, most sands, lime, and maybe even dolomite, would be mostly regional, there were a lot of things being loaded into covered hoppers in the post-war period that were not. Some came from few, and very specific locations in the U.S., some from overseas. There were steel plants all over the U.S. in STMFC timeframe that received crushed minerals, in quantities that required one or more car loads at a time. Kaiser Steel in SoCal, for instance, received covered hoppers, and even box car loads, of minerals used in the steel-making process. One well-known move was nickel ore in Canadian box cars shipped all over the U.S. through a northeastern portal. Another was the movement of minerals from the docks (like Philly), to locations all over the country. There were some vital metals, for instance, that we did not produce for our own industry. Another nice internal movement was molybdenum from Climax Colorado. There are literally hundreds of interesting movements to exploit, if you do some serious digging...

Elden Gatwood




One can get wound up in how many PRR H30's were in the North american car fleet, conductor's lists/wheels/train journals, etc.
But if an online customer used product shipped in covered hoppers, this is more a factor for the STMFC modeller than any other, IMHO.

Certain product was valuable enough to be shipped great distances in covered hoppers. Cement is made everywhere. But feldspar and nepheline syenite are not. A mine a hundred miles east of Toronto produces the latter to this day, shipping product out on the CPR and into the US. In STMFC times, this mostly moved in CN and CPR "slab-side" covered hoppers modelled in HO scale RTR by True Line Trains.

I model a line over which a lot of this traffic moved, so I can justify having a wayward H30 in Canada, plus the True Line hoppers of course. My proto-freelanced road uses a number of ACF-design covered hoppers as well. And US modelers can also justify having a CN or CPR "slab-side" on their layout if a glassmaking industry is anywhere near the area that they model.

Steve Lucas.







Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Digital Images - University of Kentucky's Digital Library

DBriel1782@...
 

Does the NORFOLK SOUTHERN currently run trains on the Starrucca Viaduct, which is located in Pennsylvania on the former ERIE Railroad. David Briel A fan of Norfolk Southern heritage railroads.
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: richtownsend@... [STMFC] To: STMFC
Sent: Wed, Feb 25, 2015 2:59 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Digital Images - University of Kentucky's Digital Library

 
Yes, it is the Starrucca viaduct. A very similar photo is on the Wikipedia page for the viaduct.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: stmfc <stmfc@...>
Sent: Wed, Feb 25, 2015 11:25 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Digital Images - University of Kentucky's Digital Library

 

I know, not a freight train -- but is this Starucca Viaduct? I didn't know there were any large stone arch bridges
in Kentucky...

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_5397_1


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

UP boxcar with appliance load (1949)

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt7z348gg90h_10_174


Re: Digital Images - University of Kentucky's Digital Library

 

I think a similar photo was identified as being of wooden cars removed from
the tracks and set aside for burning. The iron and steel would then be
reclaimed.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 1:57 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Digital Images - University of Kentucky's Digital
Library







or this?? :-)

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6047_1

Tim O'Connor





What is this?

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt7prr1pgv6h_236_2

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt7prr1pgv6h_236_3







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Digital Images - University of Kentucky's Digital Library

Todd Horton
 

Very similar to this one.  Todd Horton

 

http://kdl.kyvl.org/catalog/xt7sf7664q86_6054_1

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 2:58 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Digital Images - University of Kentucky's Digital Library

 

 


Re: Fw: PRR H30A Covered Hoppers

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Mark 
         Quite right.
Paul Doggett UK




Sent from Samsung mobile

"Mark Drake markstation01@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

I thought Paul said he was going to build and operate the car...are we done yet? 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android


From:"Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date:Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 1:59 PM
Subject:Re: Fw: [STMFC] PRR H30A Covered Hoppers

 


Yes, but not a very good thought -- the location of EVERY car EVERY day was
known and had to be accounted for, because wherever that car was, the railroad
(if not the owner of the car) had to reimburse the owner with a per diem charge.
Lost cars were extremely rare (maybe 1 in 1,000,000 car-days could not be
accounted for)

Tim O'Connor

>Larry
> Now there's a thought :-) .
>Paul Doggett UK
>
>
>Something to consider....In the time period we model there were no computers..ACI...etc to keep track of cars....I saw more than one mis-class go the wrong way and end up as a no bill miles from destination.....anyway it might be a good excuse for a H30 in California!!! Larry Mennie


Re: Digital Images - University of Kentucky’s Di gital Librar

mikefrommontanan
 

It's a tender truck, and that is the locomotive equipment for cab signals.

Dennis
My error. In looking at the photo, it appears that the induction head is attached to the ties below the bolt heads at either end of the "reader" head.

All sorts of neat things in the archive though.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT
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