Date   

Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

rob.mclear3@...
 

Mike said

I mean, while the term "Northern"
might be correct when referring to some 4-8-4 steam locos, it definitely is
not correct to refer to a UP 4-8-4 [ FEF ]

Kinda like Santa Fe guys not referring to caboose but Way Car and the Pennsy guys not referring to caboose but Cabin Car  :-)

Rob McLear
Aussie


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Paul Hillman
 

Here! Here! Mike. Well said, my man!!!
 
Paul Hillman
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 7:23 PM
Subject: [STMFC] ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

 

Given the rather high interest in the issue of the STMFC using "correct"
railroad terminology, I will note one of the primary rules and objectives of
the STMFC:

"Emphasis is to be placed on the study of the prototype with
a goal of producing models of them with as great a degree of accuracy as
possible."

It would seem, therefore, that, in order to achieve this accuracy, it would
be advantageous to use accurate railroad terminology, particularly if one
wanted others to understand their efforts. One problem with that is
that over the years, those with less than adequate knowledge of real
railroads have presented
their own views on what some aspects of railroad terminology should be. Thus
we have terms like "Outside braced" [ which seems to be a good term because
it is descriptive but it is NOT a real railroad term ], roof walk [ which
also seems more descriptive than
"running board" { I mean, do you have to run on the damned thing?} ] but
again is NOT a real railroad term.
Who can foget the arguments concerning the terms "friction bearing", "solid
bearing" and "plain bearing" trucks.? I mean, how and why was the term
"friction bearing" ever allowed to grow in use? And, then...ohhhh noooo...we
have no less than Ralph Johnson, Chief Engineer of Baldwin Locomotive Works
refer on page 183 of his book The Steam Locomotive to both "solid bearing"
and "friction bearing" while discribing the same thing.

Some of this can be confusing. Thus, we have an extremely knowledgeable
passenger car guru complain to me about using the model railroad term
developed by Kalmbach..."turn out". Well, for those curious, the book
Elements of Railroad Track and Construction by Wilson, published in 1915 [ a
bit before Kalmbach's model railroading activities ] contains fully 69 pages
in two chapter on "turnouts" associated with real railroads.

And then there's the case of the brakeman hollering at another brakeman
standing by a switch stand as a string of frt cars nears his turnout, "Throw
the damned switch!" So, do we use the term "turnout" or "damned switch"?

So, do we use engineering terms or operations terms? Maybe it depends on the
situation. At any rate, given the authority granted to me by...uh...me, I
will monitor the terms we use. Certainly STMFC management is not going to
enforce the use of "correct" terminology [ at this time ] because , for one
thing, STMFC
management might...gasp...not know it. I mean, while the term "Northern"
might be correct when referring to some 4-8-4 steam locos, it definitely is
not correct to refer to a UP 4-8-4 [ FEF ] and no UP engineer would
use the term "Big Boy", using instead the term "4000". Current STMFC mgt
knows these differences but members might not or be expected to.
Nevertheless, I would
think that those using "correct" terminology would be given credit while
those not...would suffer accordingly. I mean, given that you might consider
yourself having a closer association with someone in operations and,
therefore, you might choose to use their terms, the STMFC is much closer to
freight car construction and its terms rather than ops and theirs.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Mikebrock
 

Tim O'Connor says:

"One reason is that friction bearings really do exist and are present on most
freight car trucks -- but they are NOT the same thing as journal bearings."

All fine and good but the issue regarding friction bearings WERE journal bearings. Johnson refers to the different "journal friction" produced by roller bearing journals compared to friction bearings in the journals.

Mike Brock


Re: [off list] ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Tim O'Connor
 

Mark

My bad. You're correct. The literature calls them ANTI-friction bearings
or just side bearings. They are more generically "friction rollers" but as
products they are sold as car side bearings and truck side bearings.

Tim


At 2/28/2015 09:20 PM Saturday, you wrote:
So when did they start or stop being side bearings? Tim, I usually agree with you but this is NOT one of those times.
Mark Rickert
 
In a message dated 2/28/2015 8:09:41 P.M. Central Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
One reason is that friction bearings really do exist and are present on most
freight car trucks -- but they are NOT the same thing as journal bearings.

http://theweatheringshop.com/images/trucks4.jpg

This picture illustrates them nicely -- See those items on top of the truck
bolster about 1/4 way in from each side? Those are friction bearings. There
are corresponding parts attached to each freight car's bolsters. These bearings
prevent direct contact between the static parts of the carbody and the trucks,
as the car rocks (tilts) from side to side as it rolls down the track.

Some HO trucks replicate these bearings, but most do not. The ones shown in the
photograph above are very accurate representations. You can find them advertised
in Car Builder Cycs, since they are a wear item and are sold by third parties.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Digital Images - Univ ersity of Kentucky's Digital Library

Cyril Durrenberger
 

Brian,

Thanks for posting these photos. Are there any more photos of tank cars in the catalog that you could post?

Thanks,

Cyril Durrenberger
--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 2/28/15, 'Steve and Barb Hile' shile@mindspring.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Digital Images - Univ ersity of Kentucky's Digital Library
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, February 28, 2015, 7:54 PM


 

















I
will agree with Brian’s analysis.  Bettendorf provided
close
to 2500 steel underframes to UTL in the first few years of
the 20th Century
to replace wooden frames.


 

Regards,


Steve
Hile


 









From:
STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]

Sent:
Saturday, February 28, 2015
6:56 PM

To:
STMFC@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re:
[STMFC] Re: Digital
Images - Univ ersity of Kentucky ’s
Digital Library




 

 










I think
that this is a Bettendorf
built tank car with a steel frame.  I have added a file
called "1907 Bettendorf tank car" which has pages
from a 1907 Bettendorf catalog. 
Although many details are in shadow in the photo, I believe
they match.



Brian Leppert

Carson City , NV


















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Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike Brock wrote

>> Who can foget the arguments concerning the terms "friction bearing", "solid bearing"
>> and "plain bearing" trucks.? I mean, how and why was the term "friction bearing" ever
>> allowed to grow in use?

One reason is that friction bearings really do exist and are present on most
freight car trucks -- but they are NOT the same thing as journal bearings.

http://theweatheringshop.com/images/trucks4.jpg

This picture illustrates them nicely -- See those items on top of the truck
bolster about 1/4 way in from each side? Those are friction bearings. There
are corresponding parts attached to each freight car's bolsters. These bearings
prevent direct contact between the static parts of the carbody and the trucks,
as the car rocks (tilts) from side to side as it rolls down the track.

Some HO trucks replicate these bearings, but most do not. The ones shown in the
photograph above are very accurate representations. You can find them advertised
in Car Builder Cycs, since they are a wear item and are sold by third parties.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Digital Images - Univ ersity of Kentucky's Digital Library

Steve and Barb Hile
 

I will agree with Brian’s analysis.  Bettendorf provided close to 2500 steel underframes to UTL in the first few years of the 20th Century to replace wooden frames.

 

Regards,

Steve Hile

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 6:56 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Digital Images - Univ ersity of Kentucky’s Digital Library

 

 

I think that this is a Bettendorf built tank car with a steel frame.  I have added a file called "1907 Bettendorf tank car" which has pages from a 1907 Bettendorf catalog.  Although many details are in shadow in the photo, I believe they match.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Mikebrock
 

Given the rather high interest in the issue of the STMFC using "correct"
railroad terminology, I will note one of the primary rules and objectives of
the STMFC:

"Emphasis is to be placed on the study of the prototype with
a goal of producing models of them with as great a degree of accuracy as
possible."

It would seem, therefore, that, in order to achieve this accuracy, it would
be advantageous to use accurate railroad terminology, particularly if one wanted others to understand their efforts. One problem with that is
that over the years, those with less than adequate knowledge of real railroads have presented
their own views on what some aspects of railroad terminology should be. Thus
we have terms like "Outside braced" [ which seems to be a good term because
it is descriptive but it is NOT a real railroad term ], roof walk [ which also seems more descriptive than
"running board" { I mean, do you have to run on the damned thing?} ] but again is NOT a real railroad term.
Who can foget the arguments concerning the terms "friction bearing", "solid
bearing" and "plain bearing" trucks.? I mean, how and why was the term
"friction bearing" ever allowed to grow in use? And, then...ohhhh noooo...we
have no less than Ralph Johnson, Chief Engineer of Baldwin Locomotive Works
refer on page 183 of his book The Steam Locomotive to both "solid bearing"
and "friction bearing" while discribing the same thing.

Some of this can be confusing. Thus, we have an extremely knowledgeable
passenger car guru complain to me about using the model railroad term
developed by Kalmbach..."turn out". Well, for those curious, the book
Elements of Railroad Track and Construction by Wilson, published in 1915 [ a
bit before Kalmbach's model railroading activities ] contains fully 69 pages
in two chapter on "turnouts" associated with real railroads.

And then there's the case of the brakeman hollering at another brakeman
standing by a switch stand as a string of frt cars nears his turnout, "Throw
the damned switch!" So, do we use the term "turnout" or "damned switch"?

So, do we use engineering terms or operations terms? Maybe it depends on the
situation. At any rate, given the authority granted to me by...uh...me, I
will monitor the terms we use. Certainly STMFC management is not going to
enforce the use of "correct" terminology [ at this time ] because , for one thing, STMFC
management might...gasp...not know it. I mean, while the term "Northern"
might be correct when referring to some 4-8-4 steam locos, it definitely is
not correct to refer to a UP 4-8-4 [ FEF ] and no UP engineer would
use the term "Big Boy", using instead the term "4000". Current STMFC mgt knows these differences but members might not or be expected to. Nevertheless, I would
think that those using "correct" terminology would be given credit while
those not...would suffer accordingly. I mean, given that you might consider yourself having a closer association with someone in operations and, therefore, you might choose to use their terms, the STMFC is much closer to freight car construction and its terms rather than ops and theirs.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Digital Images - Univ ersity of Kentucky’s Digital Library

brianleppert@att.net
 

I think that this is a Bettendorf built tank car with a steel frame.  I have added a file called "1907 Bettendorf tank car" which has pages from a 1907 Bettendorf catalog.  Although many details are in shadow in the photo, I believe they match.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.


File : /Bettendorf Tank Car/page 45 001.jpg
Uploaded by : brianleppert@att.net <brianleppert@att.net>
Description :


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/files/Bettendorf%20Tank%20Car/page%2045%20001.jpg


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398


Regards,


brianleppert@att.net <brianleppert@att.net>


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.


File : /Bettendorf Tank Car/page 44 001.jpg
Uploaded by : brianleppert@att.net <brianleppert@att.net>
Description :


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/files/Bettendorf%20Tank%20Car/page%2044%20001.jpg


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398


Regards,


brianleppert@att.net <brianleppert@att.net>


1960 ART car available from the Missouri Pacific Historical Society

Charlie Duckworth
 

Wanted the group to know the 1960 ART reefer in HO scale is available from the Missouri Pacific Historical Society.  The MPHS is a not for profit in the state of Missouri and proceeds from these sales go to converting our photos and diagrams to digital images that will be available on our web site later this year (mopac.org).   

http://www.ebay.com/itm/InterMountain-ART-Reefer-1960-039-s-Paint-HO-scale-from-MPHS-/181676820208?&_trksid=p2056016.m2516.l5255

Also we are also going to reprint the 1900 - 1955 Mopac freight car diagram book shortly.  As soon as its available I'll put a note out on how to purchase off our web site.

Charlie Duckworth


Re: Wood running boards

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Aren't those termed "side roof walks"?

Sent from Dave Bott's troll

On Feb 28, 2015, at 1:51 AM, Robert rdkirkham@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Thanks for this Ed.
 
I don’t suppose anyone happens to have a shot of (or other info on) the lateral running boards on an as-built NP car in the NP 16000-16999 series from May 1941?


Re: Wood running boards

Will Seehorn
 

The poles are on the locomotive, the cars only have poling pockets

;)

Willard

-----Original Message-----
From: "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]"
Sent: Feb 28, 2015 12:38 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Wood running boards

 

Pierre Oliver wrote

  > Great! So laterals are out?
  > Just when I'd finally trained myself not to use the term endwalks. :-(


Not for me... I'll stick to lengthwise and laterals until someone comes
up with a less ridiculously bureaucratic(*) term.

If freight cars have longitude and latitude, then where are the poles?

Tim O'Connor

(*) officious MCBA, ARA and AAR documents


Re: Wood running boards

Paul Hillman
 

Thanks Mike. I feel much better.
 
Paul Hillman
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wood running boards

 

Paul Hillman asks:

"Is "caboose" an official term, or is another name more "official"? I don't
care."

Well, rest assured...even if you don't care...that the term "caboose" is an
official, acceptable, railroad term. My "official" UP Frt Conductor Book has
the heading, "Caboose" clearly spelled out on the page where a train's
consist is shown. Therefore, "Caboose" is an official term for the STMFC.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Running Board Terminology

Steve Haas
 

<<For example I am very interested in Type and Typography and find it frustrating when people use the term "Font" when they are clearly talking about Type.>>

 

Or stencils?

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

 

Steve Haas

Snoqualmie

 


Re: Wood running boards

Carl Gustafson
 

On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 12:38:31PM -0500, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@comcast.net [STMFC] wrote:

If freight cars have longitude and latitude, then where are the poles?
Hanging on the sides of locomotives, for when the freight cars have to be pushed on a parallel track.

Carl "GDR" Gustafson


WESTERFIELD MODELS NEWSLETTER, VOL 4, NO 1, MARCH 2015

dahminator68
 

Hello Steam Era Modelers:

We are please to announce the release of our New Kits on March 1, 2015: Rock Island B-2 Conversion Stock Cars, Double Deck And Original Side Versions.
The Rock Island began converting B-2 Box Cars into Stock Cars in 1944 at its company shops. The B-2 Box cars were built in 1913-15 by various manufacturers (See our Kit Series #6400). The 1944 conversion covered 200 cars, #77000-77199. This original batch of conversions had a different side slat layout that the later conversions and are replicated by our New #12111/12112/12113 Kits. The later conversions, done 1948 to 1950, are covered by our Kit Series 12101/12102/12103. Also in 1944, the railroad converted 86 B-2 cars into Double Deck Stock cars. These are replicated by our New #12121/12122/12123 Kits. All conversions retained the original ends and underframes. The side sheathing was replaced with wood boards that lined up with the holes in the metal side framing. Some cars received Murphy XLA roofs, some had Hutchins Roofs and some, as they aged, had the metal roof removed, leaving the wood under roof exposed. All conversions also received AB Brakes and had Barber Lateral Motion cast side frame trucks. These Kits also feature our new One-Piece Roof Frame (Part #6440), which is available separately for $4.00 each. Please note that this One-Piece roof frame only fits the #12100 & 6400 series Kits. More One-Piece roof frames are being worked on; They will be available for #7300 & #5200/5300/5400 Series Kits next (See Below for more on One-Piece Roof Frames).

As usual, our Kits are HO scale unpainted urethane castings with quality details, detailed instructions/history sheets, and proprietary decals covering all versions of the prototype car
These are available direct from Westerfield Models for the below listed price plus shipping. Trucks and couplers are not included.
Operating Era for all #12100 Series Kits: 1944-1971

AVAILABLE MARCH 1, 2015:
KIT #12111:
B-2 Stock Car Conversion, Original Side & Door, Hutchins Roof, AB Brakes, Car Series #77000-77199 $40.00 each
KIT #12112: B-2 Stock Car Conversion, Original Side & Door, Murphy XLA Roof, AB Brakes, Car Series #7700-77199 $40.00 each
KIT #12113: B-2 Stock Car Conversion, Original Side & Door, Single Board Wood Roof, AB Brakes, Car Series #77000-77199 $40.00 each
KIT #12121: B-2 Stock Car Conversion, Double Deck, Hutchins Roof, AB Brakes, Car Series #79701-79800 $41.00 each
KIT #12122: B-2 Stock Car Conversion, Double Deck, Murphy XLA Roof, AB Brakes, Car Series #79701-79800 $41.00 each
KIT #12123: B-2 Stock Car Conversion, Double Deck, Single Board Wood Roof, AB Brakes, Car Series #79701-79800 $41.00 each
PART #6440: One Piece Roof Frame for Kit Series #6400 & 12100.
Also Available:
KIT #12101: B-2 Stock Car Conversion, Later Side & Door, Hutchins Roof, AB Brakes, Car Series #77200-77599 $40.00 each
KIT #12102: B-2 Stock Car Conversion, Later Side & Door, Murphy XLA Roof, AB Brakes, Car Series #77200-77599 $40.00 each
KIT #12103: B-2 Stock Car COnversion, Later Side & Door, Single Board Wood Roof, AB Brakes, Car Series #77200-77599 $40.00 each

These are available direct from Westerfield Models. Kit includes HO scale unpainted urethane castings with quality details, detailed instruction/history sheets and proprietary decals covering all versions of the prototype car. Trucks and couplers are not included.
Also newly available are more of our new One-Piece Roof Frames for the following Kit Series:
1300/2700/3500/5500 Series Kits, now include a one-piece roof frame.
Also available separately: Item #1340: One-Piece Roof Frame $4.00 ea
1700/1800 Series Kits, now include a one-piece roof frame.
Also available separately: Item #1740: One-Piece Roof Frame $4.00 ea

All of our Kits are available at our secure website: westerfieldmodels.com
or you can use our mail in order form found on our website main page or the "links" page.

All items listed above are HO Scale Craftsman Resin Kits with Custom Decals. Trucks and couplers are not included.
We are have several new Kits in development. Watch for more announcements about these soon:
B-50-5 Box Car for SP roads. This will have a One-Piece Body.
F-50-1/2/3 Pressed Steel U/F Flat Car for Harriman roads (SP/UP).
S-40-1/2/3 Pressed Steel U/F Stock Cars for Harriman roads (SP/UP). These will be flat Kits with our One-Piece Roof Frame.
 
We will be attending the Western Prototype Modelers RPM show on Saturday, March 28, 2014. We look forward to seeing you there!
 
Thank you,
Andrew Dahm
Westerfield Models, LLC
westerfieldmodels.com
westerfieldmodels@...


Running Board Terminology

Bill Welch
 

Taking Jim Betz up on his challenge of a new subject line or box, although he failed to explain why he did not change it himself, LOL, I do think precision in language and terminology is always helpful and it never hurts us to be better informed about the subjects we are interested in particularly. For example I am very interested in Type and Typography and find it frustrating when people use the term "Font" when they are clearly talking about Type.

Bill Welch


Re: Powdered Graphite (And Powdered Teflon)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

This is the product recommended in a La Mesa Model Railroad Club video for lubricating truck journals:

 

http://www.elmers.com/product/detail/E450

 

It is powdered Teflon in a liquid carrier.

 

The La Mesa Model Railroad Club operates the very large Tehachapi Loop layout at the San Diego Model Railroad Museum. They are fanatical about rolling stock performance.

 

If you cannot find this product at your local big box retailer or hardware store I recall the person in the video clip saying this product was available at lock-and-key shops.

 

I’ve used it for truck journals with very good results.  I spay the Teflon into a small container (such as a shot glass) and apply the liquid to the journals with a microbrush.  You do not need to remove the wheels.  The liquid carrier quickly evaporates, leaving the Teflon in place.

 

There are similar graphite products that work the same way.

 

The video clip from the La Mesa Club is on this link:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISc_XMbTnU

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

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