Date   

Re: Terminology - Steam Locomotive

Paul Hillman
 

And NYC called their 4-8-4 "Niagara"
 
Paul Hillman
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2015 11:53 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Terminology - Steam Locomotive

 

Mike said:

I mean, while the term "Northern"
might be correct when referring to some 4-8-4 steam locos, it definitely is
not correct to refer to a UP 4-8-4 [ FEF ]

And Rob McLear

Aussie

Responded:

Kinda like Santa Fe guys not referring to caboose but Way Car and the Pennsy guys not referring to caboose but Cabin Car  :-)

Yeah, well, DL&W preferred "Poconos" for that sort of 4-8-4 . . .

Schuyler


Terminology - Steam Locomotive

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Mike said:

I mean, while the term "Northern"
might be correct when referring to some 4-8-4 steam locos, it definitely is
not correct to refer to a UP 4-8-4 [ FEF ]

 

And Rob McLear

Aussie

Responded:

 

Kinda like Santa Fe guys not referring to caboose but Way Car and the Pennsy guys not referring to caboose but Cabin Car  :-)

 

Yeah, well, DL&W preferred “Poconos” for that sort of 4-8-4 . . .

 

Schuyler


1919- MiamiValleyConservancy Construction Photos

Matt Goodman
 


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Mikebrock
 

Bill Welch writes:

"Just curious, why is this discussion titled "ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology" when it about track/rail terms although granted freight cars did/do run over track, switches, bridges, etc.? "

Because when I wrote the original message it did pertain to a variety of different terms...some associated with frt cars including the infamous "outside braced" and "roof walk" terms, both of which were generated by the modeling community.

Does this matter? Some members have suggested that it does not, that, instead, we should use terms generated by those other than the RR industry. Let me put it this way. The STMFC is a forum in which discussions about real RR frt cars and the models we build of them are discussed. Just as the language we use on the STMFC is English, we also use real RR terms. This is an assumed position taken by STMFC mgt. As I said in the first message:

"Emphasis is to be placed on the study of the prototype with
a goal of producing models of them with as great a degree of accuracy as
possible."

It would seem, therefore, that, in order to achieve this accuracy, it would
be advantageous to use accurate railroad terminology, particularly if one
wanted others to understand their efforts."

Of course, it might be difficult for some without adequate reference material to have the needed information. Non the less, that is an objective of the STMFC. Mind you, at times disussions will need to use terms associated with model building. Nevertheless, the preferred terminology is that of real RRs.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: picture location was Re: Re: CH&D&PM System what is it

Eric Hansmann
 

That could be, Rich. I just never thought about those type of structures boarding that P&LE team yard. They look like they face a street, yet Carson Street is on the other side of the buildings. 

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Bill Welch
 

Just curious, why is this discussion titled  "ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology" when it about track/rail terms although granted freight cars did/do run over track, switches, bridges, etc.?

Bill Welch


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Paul Hillman
 


Jack,
 
Wonder what they were called when they were stub-type? (No points) Stub-switches or stub-turnouts.
 
Paul Hillman
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2015 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

 

Tony Thompson wrote:  " Read the professional literature on track more closely and you will find that "turnout" refers to the movable part of the device, and that "switch" refers to the entire trackwork. "


Uh, no. That's backwards.  Admittedly, the AREMA definition of "Switch - a track structure used to divert rolling stock from one track to another." could be a bit ambiguous, but "Turnout - an arrangement of a switch and a frog with closure rails,  by means of which rolling stock may be diverted from one track to another." should be clear.

Formal engineering usage is consistent that the switch is the portion with points and stock rails, including the associated rods, plates, braces, heel blocks and fasteners.  In informal usage, switch can be a synonym for turnout. (An example of synecdoche?)

One major exception is that the ties for a turnout are called switch ties.

I have over 30 years professional and managerial experience in the Engineering Dept. of major railroads.

Jack Mullen



Freight Car Terminology (Nomenclature)

genegreen1942@...
 

One good source correct nomenclature for rolling stock is the various Car Builders' Dictionaries and Cyclopedias which has been mentioned often on this forum.

Another source, that seems easier to use, is the charts published by Simmons-Boardman.  My collection includes 25 different ones listed below although a few are for cars designed after 1960 and, of course, the locomotive charts are not applicable here at all.  These charts include a perspective drawing with cutouts and numbers on the various parts.  Each part is identified in lists below and to the side of the drawings.  The obvious, and sole, purpose is to give the correct nomenclature for freight cars.

I find these on eBay from time to time and, because until today I didn't keep a list of what I had, I have some duplicates which, if there is interest, I am willing to sell.  Indeed when my wife saw all these this morning that is exactly the suggestion she made.

Chart, Boxcar, AAR Std Design-Steel Sheathed, Wood Lined           
Chart, Boxcar, AAR Std Design-Steel Sheathed, Wood Lined           
Chart, Boxcar, AAR Std Design-Steel Sheathed, Wood Lined           
Chart, Boxcar, AAR standard design nomenclature                    
Chart, Boxcar, AAR standard design, nomenclature                   
Chart, Boxcar, AAR, standard steel, nomenclature                   
Chart, Boxcar, Anatomy of ARA standard double-sheathed, steel-frame
Chart, Boxcar, Steel Sheathed, Cushion Underframe                  
Chart, Boxcar, nomenclature                                        
Chart, Flatcar, All-Purpose, TTX TOFC/COFC                         
Chart, Gondola, nomenclature                                       
Chart, Hopper, covered, nomenclature                               
Chart, Hopper, covered, nomenclature                               
Chart, Hopper, covered, nomenclature                               
Chart, Hopper, open-top, nomenclature                              
Chart, Locomotive, Consolidation (2-8-0) nomenclature              
Chart, Locomotive, Electro-Motive GP-9 Diesel                      
Chart, Locomotive, Hudson (4-6-4) nomenclature                     
Chart, Locomotive, ICC defect, steam (2-8-2) (laminated)           
Chart, Locomotive, ICC defect, steam (2-8-2) (paper)               
Chart, Locomotive, Mikado, nomenclature                            
Chart, Passenger Car-Air Conditioned Chair Car                     
Chart, Passenger Car-Light-Weight Streamlined Design               
Chart, Refrigerator Car, Mechanical                                
Chart, Tank Car Anatomy GATX                                       
Gene Green
Out in the Badlands of New Mexico


Re: Powdered Graphite

jon miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 2/28/2015 8:14 PM, 'North Model Railroad Supplies' nmrs@... [STMFC] wrote:
I was wondering if anyone has tried powdered graphite for couplers and wheel sets?
��� I like powered Teflon in coupler boxes.� It's a Labelle product.

��� I tried for years to get this and now everyone has it.� It spray on graphite, the carrier evaporates leaving the graphite.� It's labeled for locks and Home Depot carries some.

-- 

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

 

There are many words in the English language (& probably many others) that have multiple meanings. Just ask the professional football about using a "switch" to discipline his kid! So what's the sense in getting so righteous about whether "switch" or "turnout" is the correct word for a device that lets a train take a diverging route. Having been a conductor prefer to use what the thousands of real (not model) railroaders use. Besides has anyone ever heard of a "turnout" engine? LOL

Andy Jackson
Bellflower CA


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Clark Propst
 

I’ve never heard a friend that rode the rails for over 40 years say coupler. It’s always drawbar. The drawbar does have a knuckle through. Another colloquialism I suppose?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Benjamin Scanlon
 

I personally don't see the problem in 'outside braced' as it passes the simple test: 


Is there bracing? Yes.


Where? On the outside.


Brilliant.


Whereas 'single sheathed' doesn't necessarily give those essentials away.


IMHO, whatever a model train is, it is not the real thing, neither conceptually nor, at all times, descriptively.


Regards


Ben Scanlon

London, England


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Tony Thompson
 

Jack Mullen wrote:

 

Uh, no. That's backwards.  Admittedly, the AREMA definition of "Switch - a track structure used to divert rolling stock from one track to another." could be a bit ambiguous, but "Turnout - an arrangement of a switch and a frog with closure rails,  by means of which rolling stock may be diverted from one track to another." should be clear.


     Yes, I apparently underwent ome sort of mental reversal. But let's at least put out to pasture the long-enduring myth that Kalmbach started calling track switches "turnouts" so we wouldn't confuse them with electrical switches, which if true would have made "turnout" one of those hobby terms. Like roof walk.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Tony Thompson
 

 Dennis Storzek wrote:

 

Except Tony has it backwards; the switch is only the points and associated hardware, while the turnout is the whole thing. Operationally, one lines the switch. Like I always point out, it takes a whole track gang to line a turnout. :-)


     Thanks, Dennis. Yes, I did get it backwards, should have checked. I had the track reference in the other room . . . entirely my error.


Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Jack Mullen
 

Tony Thompson wrote:  " Read the professional literature on track more closely and you will find that "turnout" refers to the movable part of the device, and that "switch" refers to the entire trackwork. "

Uh, no. That's backwards.  Admittedly, the AREMA definition of "Switch - a track structure used to divert rolling stock from one track to another." could be a bit ambiguous, but "Turnout - an arrangement of a switch and a frog with closure rails,  by means of which rolling stock may be diverted from one track to another." should be clear.

Formal engineering usage is consistent that the switch is the portion with points and stock rails, including the associated rods, plates, braces, heel blocks and fasteners.  In informal usage, switch can be a synonym for turnout. (An example of synecdoche?)

One major exception is that the ties for a turnout are called switch ties.

I have over 30 years professional and managerial experience in the Engineering Dept. of major railroads.

Jack Mullen



Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Dennis Storzek
 

Except Tony has it backwards; the switch is only the points and associated hardware, while the turnout is the whole thing. Operationally, one lines the switch. Like I always point out, it takes a whole track gang to line a turnout. :-)

Dennis Storzek


Re: Powdered Graphite

seameadow17
 

Thank you Bob for the advice and also for the clip, I will give it a try.

Jim


Re: Powdered Graphite

seameadow17
 

Thank You Dave I do appreciate your advice and will purchase some. 

Jim


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Tony Thompson
 

Mike Brock wrote:

Some of this can be confusing. Thus, we have an extremely knowledgeable
passenger car guru complain to me about using the model railroad term
developed by Kalmbach..."turn out". Well, for those curious, the book
Elements of Railroad Track and Construction by Wilson, published in 1915 [ a
bit before Kalmbach's model railroading activities ] contains fully 69 pages
in two chapter on "turnouts" associated with real railroads.

And then there's the case of the brakeman hollering at another brakeman
standing by a switch stand as a string of frt cars nears his turnout, "Throw
the damned switch!" So, do we use the term "turnout" or "damned switch"?


      Read the professional literature on track more closely and you will find that "turnout" refers to the movable part of the device, and that "switch" refers to the entire trackwork. If you look at Wikipedia, the two terms are regarded as synonyms. But neither one was invented by Kalmbach.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Powdered Graphite

North Model Railroad Supplies <nmrs@...>
 

I enjoy reading your posts while lurking in the background and feel I can learn from this group. I was wondering if anyone has tried powdered graphite for couplers and wheel sets?

Jim Violante

 

Hi Jim,

Kadee Greasem is powdered graphite.

I shim the inside of my coupler boxes to eliminate coupler droop, and burnish both sides of the coupler shank with graphite to improve the lateral movement of the coupler in the coupler box.

A number of local modelers fill their truck axle “cones” with graphite, then fit the wheelsets. They say it improves the rolling characteristics of their cars.

Cheers

Dave North

 

 

55661 - 55680 of 187855