Date   

Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

asychis@...
 

Mike quoted this part of the reason we exist:"Emphasis is to be placed on the study of the prototype with
a goal of producing models of them with as great a degree of accuracy as
possible."
 
Which makes obvious sense.  However, I fail to see where the mention of switch vs. turnout or roofwalk vs. running board would prevent "as great a degree of accuracy as possible."  If a person states he hand laid a #8 switch, would one actually be confused and think a #8 electrical switch was constructed?
 
If we have to continue this discussion as it has been going on now for three or four days, how about instituting peer review for posts?  Those whose sensibilities are greatly disturbed by other members egregious misuse of railroad terms could form a committee to review all members posts and clean them up for proper presentation to the group.
 
Oops, misread the calendar, it's March 1st not April 1st!
 
Jerry Michels


Re: 1960 ART car available from the Missouri Pacific Historical Society

Charlie Duckworth
 

Walt
The ARM/MPHS had contacted InterMountain twice about rerunning the three herald ART reefers we'd offered earlier but are unfortunately are unable to get an answer from them.  I wish I had better news as they sold well.

As to converting the UPFE R-40-10 to the first steel ART reefers; I wrote an article in the second Railway Prototype Cyclopedia  RP CYC Volume 2 Contents covering this conversion.  The problem will be finding decals since Odd Ball is out of business.  

Charlie Duckworth  

 

        
 


Re: Terminology - Steam Locomotive

Jim Pickett
 

And the C&O called them Greenbriers.
 
Jim Pickett


On Sunday, March 1, 2015 1:16 PM, "'Paul Hillman' chris_hillman@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
And NYC called their 4-8-4 "Niagara"
 
Paul Hillman
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2015 11:53 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Terminology - Steam Locomotive

 
Mike said:
I mean, while the term "Northern"
might be correct when referring to some 4-8-4 steam locos, it definitely is
not correct to refer to a UP 4-8-4 [ FEF ]
And Rob McLear
Aussie
Responded:
Kinda like Santa Fe guys not referring to caboose but Way Car and the Pennsy guys not referring to caboose but Cabin Car  :-)
Yeah, well, DL&W preferred "Poconos" for that sort of 4-8-4 . . .
Schuyler



Re: Terminology - Steam Locomotive

riverman_vt@...
 

     And as provided for Mike Brock some fifteen years ago, in Vermont a 2-10-4 such as the Central Vermont 
operated in the time frame of this list was refered to as the "Vermont" type. Right Mike?   LOL

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Powdered Graphite

riverman_vt@...
 

   Kadee themselves have recommended and offered a tube of powdered graphite for years.
Why does anyone have to look any further?

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: 1960 ART car available from the Missouri Pacific Historical Society

Walter Cox
 

Will the MPHS be re-releasing the ART reefer in the late 50's paint scheme any time soon or has the period of exclusivity expired? I would like to add a couple to my roster as well as a couple of Intermountain R-40-10's if they are or can be made into reasonably accurate ART models since I believe the first ART steel refers were copies of the R-40-10 but I don't know how close.
Thanks in advance, Walt
 

In a message dated 2/28/2015 5:56:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

Wanted the group to know the 1960 ART reefer in HO scale is available from the Missouri Pacific Historical Society.  The MPHS is a not for profit in the state of Missouri and proceeds from these sales go to converting our photos and diagrams to digital images that will be available on our web site later this year (mopac.org).   


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Bill Welch
 

Not my point at all Mike. Should not the Subject Box describe what is being discussed so that doing things like a search are easier or so each of us can decide we want to read it. If we are striving for accuracy, which I think we are, why not have the Subject Box accurately describe what is being discussed? Freight Car Trucks inevitably go thru/over switches, points, frogs, rail joints but I don't think that makes them fall under "Freight Car Terminology" IMO.

None of us are perfect and I have failed to change the description with a reply that takes the topic in a different direction but if we each try a little harder to police ourselves, it would serve all of us better I think. Just sayin'.

Bill Welch
 


Re: 1919 - Miami Valley Conservancy Construction Photos

Benjamin Hom
 

Matt Goodman wrote:
"Track laying machinery and work train (including an NYC Furniture boxcar)

Camp Cars
http://www.miamiconservancy.org/resources/ConstructionPhotos-WM.asp?ID=3683

Based on the partial end reporting marks on the furniture car, it's most likely MCRR 11500-11999, no lot number, ACF built 1901, off the roster after 1925.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-11500.jpg
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT2.htm


Ben Hom
...daring to actually post information about freight cars today.


Re: Terminology - Steam Locomotive

Paul Hillman
 

And NYC called their 4-8-4 "Niagara"
 
Paul Hillman
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2015 11:53 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Terminology - Steam Locomotive

 

Mike said:

I mean, while the term "Northern"
might be correct when referring to some 4-8-4 steam locos, it definitely is
not correct to refer to a UP 4-8-4 [ FEF ]

And Rob McLear

Aussie

Responded:

Kinda like Santa Fe guys not referring to caboose but Way Car and the Pennsy guys not referring to caboose but Cabin Car  :-)

Yeah, well, DL&W preferred "Poconos" for that sort of 4-8-4 . . .

Schuyler


Terminology - Steam Locomotive

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Mike said:

I mean, while the term "Northern"
might be correct when referring to some 4-8-4 steam locos, it definitely is
not correct to refer to a UP 4-8-4 [ FEF ]

 

And Rob McLear

Aussie

Responded:

 

Kinda like Santa Fe guys not referring to caboose but Way Car and the Pennsy guys not referring to caboose but Cabin Car  :-)

 

Yeah, well, DL&W preferred “Poconos” for that sort of 4-8-4 . . .

 

Schuyler


1919- MiamiValleyConservancy Construction Photos

Matt Goodman
 


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Mikebrock
 

Bill Welch writes:

"Just curious, why is this discussion titled "ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology" when it about track/rail terms although granted freight cars did/do run over track, switches, bridges, etc.? "

Because when I wrote the original message it did pertain to a variety of different terms...some associated with frt cars including the infamous "outside braced" and "roof walk" terms, both of which were generated by the modeling community.

Does this matter? Some members have suggested that it does not, that, instead, we should use terms generated by those other than the RR industry. Let me put it this way. The STMFC is a forum in which discussions about real RR frt cars and the models we build of them are discussed. Just as the language we use on the STMFC is English, we also use real RR terms. This is an assumed position taken by STMFC mgt. As I said in the first message:

"Emphasis is to be placed on the study of the prototype with
a goal of producing models of them with as great a degree of accuracy as
possible."

It would seem, therefore, that, in order to achieve this accuracy, it would
be advantageous to use accurate railroad terminology, particularly if one
wanted others to understand their efforts."

Of course, it might be difficult for some without adequate reference material to have the needed information. Non the less, that is an objective of the STMFC. Mind you, at times disussions will need to use terms associated with model building. Nevertheless, the preferred terminology is that of real RRs.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: picture location was Re: Re: CH&D&PM System what is it

Eric Hansmann
 

That could be, Rich. I just never thought about those type of structures boarding that P&LE team yard. They look like they face a street, yet Carson Street is on the other side of the buildings. 

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Bill Welch
 

Just curious, why is this discussion titled  "ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology" when it about track/rail terms although granted freight cars did/do run over track, switches, bridges, etc.?

Bill Welch


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Paul Hillman
 


Jack,
 
Wonder what they were called when they were stub-type? (No points) Stub-switches or stub-turnouts.
 
Paul Hillman
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2015 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

 

Tony Thompson wrote:  " Read the professional literature on track more closely and you will find that "turnout" refers to the movable part of the device, and that "switch" refers to the entire trackwork. "


Uh, no. That's backwards.  Admittedly, the AREMA definition of "Switch - a track structure used to divert rolling stock from one track to another." could be a bit ambiguous, but "Turnout - an arrangement of a switch and a frog with closure rails,  by means of which rolling stock may be diverted from one track to another." should be clear.

Formal engineering usage is consistent that the switch is the portion with points and stock rails, including the associated rods, plates, braces, heel blocks and fasteners.  In informal usage, switch can be a synonym for turnout. (An example of synecdoche?)

One major exception is that the ties for a turnout are called switch ties.

I have over 30 years professional and managerial experience in the Engineering Dept. of major railroads.

Jack Mullen



Freight Car Terminology (Nomenclature)

genegreen1942@...
 

One good source correct nomenclature for rolling stock is the various Car Builders' Dictionaries and Cyclopedias which has been mentioned often on this forum.

Another source, that seems easier to use, is the charts published by Simmons-Boardman.  My collection includes 25 different ones listed below although a few are for cars designed after 1960 and, of course, the locomotive charts are not applicable here at all.  These charts include a perspective drawing with cutouts and numbers on the various parts.  Each part is identified in lists below and to the side of the drawings.  The obvious, and sole, purpose is to give the correct nomenclature for freight cars.

I find these on eBay from time to time and, because until today I didn't keep a list of what I had, I have some duplicates which, if there is interest, I am willing to sell.  Indeed when my wife saw all these this morning that is exactly the suggestion she made.

Chart, Boxcar, AAR Std Design-Steel Sheathed, Wood Lined           
Chart, Boxcar, AAR Std Design-Steel Sheathed, Wood Lined           
Chart, Boxcar, AAR Std Design-Steel Sheathed, Wood Lined           
Chart, Boxcar, AAR standard design nomenclature                    
Chart, Boxcar, AAR standard design, nomenclature                   
Chart, Boxcar, AAR, standard steel, nomenclature                   
Chart, Boxcar, Anatomy of ARA standard double-sheathed, steel-frame
Chart, Boxcar, Steel Sheathed, Cushion Underframe                  
Chart, Boxcar, nomenclature                                        
Chart, Flatcar, All-Purpose, TTX TOFC/COFC                         
Chart, Gondola, nomenclature                                       
Chart, Hopper, covered, nomenclature                               
Chart, Hopper, covered, nomenclature                               
Chart, Hopper, covered, nomenclature                               
Chart, Hopper, open-top, nomenclature                              
Chart, Locomotive, Consolidation (2-8-0) nomenclature              
Chart, Locomotive, Electro-Motive GP-9 Diesel                      
Chart, Locomotive, Hudson (4-6-4) nomenclature                     
Chart, Locomotive, ICC defect, steam (2-8-2) (laminated)           
Chart, Locomotive, ICC defect, steam (2-8-2) (paper)               
Chart, Locomotive, Mikado, nomenclature                            
Chart, Passenger Car-Air Conditioned Chair Car                     
Chart, Passenger Car-Light-Weight Streamlined Design               
Chart, Refrigerator Car, Mechanical                                
Chart, Tank Car Anatomy GATX                                       
Gene Green
Out in the Badlands of New Mexico


Re: Powdered Graphite

jon miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 2/28/2015 8:14 PM, 'North Model Railroad Supplies' nmrs@... [STMFC] wrote:
I was wondering if anyone has tried powdered graphite for couplers and wheel sets?
��� I like powered Teflon in coupler boxes.� It's a Labelle product.

��� I tried for years to get this and now everyone has it.� It spray on graphite, the carrier evaporates leaving the graphite.� It's labeled for locks and Home Depot carries some.

-- 

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

 

There are many words in the English language (& probably many others) that have multiple meanings. Just ask the professional football about using a "switch" to discipline his kid! So what's the sense in getting so righteous about whether "switch" or "turnout" is the correct word for a device that lets a train take a diverging route. Having been a conductor prefer to use what the thousands of real (not model) railroaders use. Besides has anyone ever heard of a "turnout" engine? LOL

Andy Jackson
Bellflower CA


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Clark Propst
 

I’ve never heard a friend that rode the rails for over 40 years say coupler. It’s always drawbar. The drawbar does have a knuckle through. Another colloquialism I suppose?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: ADMIN: Freight Car Terminology

Benjamin Scanlon
 

I personally don't see the problem in 'outside braced' as it passes the simple test: 


Is there bracing? Yes.


Where? On the outside.


Brilliant.


Whereas 'single sheathed' doesn't necessarily give those essentials away.


IMHO, whatever a model train is, it is not the real thing, neither conceptually nor, at all times, descriptively.


Regards


Ben Scanlon

London, England

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