Date   

Re: SAL 41-ft 13 rib Gondola Mini Kit

Justin May <jmay59@...>
 

> All of this Gondola talk is giving me goosebumps and reminds me I pick up a set of resin sides to be used with the Accurail kit to model a Seaboard Airline 41-ft gon with 13 ribs. It is available form the ACL/SAL Historical Society as catalog # M-60. There are two sides with no detail on interior side and nine corner gussets. The decals are from another kit but can easily be adapted to this kit. I have misplaced the instructions that has the historical information but there were a variety of ends. I cannot remember how easy or difficult the ends will be. It was pricey at $19 but  bought it anyway.


Bill,
This is a message sent out to the ACL-SAL-SCL Modeler group in November 2014 and exceeds the limitations of the 1960 era cut off, but it wouldn't be complete without including the additional information for those wishing to model a SAL G-11.

The gondolas you are asking about are based on a Seaboard design first seen in the G-11 series of 55-ton gondolas. The G-11 series included 1100 cars constructed by three builders as follows:

91100 – 91399 (300 cars): ACF, 1949
91400 – 91599 (200 cars): Bethlehem, 1951
91600 – 91899 (300 cars): Bethlehem (Stevens Pt.), 1951
91900 – 92199 (300 cars): Pullman (Bessemer), 1953

The prototypes featured 14 side panels, 13 ribs and had both ACF dartnaught ends and Pullman's own proprietary end. The cars featured a 41'6" interior length, an interior width of 9'6" and an interior height of 4'6". The cars were equipped with AB schedule brakes and utilized both Ajax and Miner hand brake components. The cars were constructed to a SAL specific design first constructed in 1949-50, featured a flat, solid bottom underframe, and were equipped with Barber S-2 solid bearing trucks with 33" steel wheels. The cars were painted SAL oxide red and lettered with white stenciling and typically featured a red heart within the logo. The G-11 class was re-classified as the KS-15 series by SCL in 1967.

In 1957, SAL turned to Magor Car Corporation to construct 200 cars built from this same design, but the new gondolas were up-rated to 77-tons. Minor variations do exist between the G-11 series and the SAL 6550-6749 series. By this time, car classes had been discontinued, so bear with me as I use the car numbers. There are minor dimensional variations such as:

Truck Centers: 31'11" (G-11) vs. 32'4" (SAL 6550-6749 series)
Coupled length: 45'10" (G-11) vs. 45'5" (SAL 6550-6749 series)

Interior length, height, and width remain the same. The SAL 6550-6749 series feature a 5'8" wheel base as compared to a 5'6" wheelbase found on the G-11 series.

Dimensionally, the cars differ, but slightly and not enough to deter me from modeling one of the Magor constructed cars. The prototypes featured 14 side panels, 13 ribs and dreadnaught ends The cars featured a 41'6" interior length, an interior width of 9'6" and an interior height of 4'6". The cars were equipped with AB schedule brakes and utilized both National Micro-Matic and Klasing hand brake components. The cars were constructed to a SAL specific design, featured a flat, solid bottom underframe, and were equipped with Barber A-3 Ride Control solid bearing trucks with 33" steel wheels. The cars were painted SAL oxide red and lettered with white stenciling and typically featured a red heart within the logo.

The SAL 6550-6749 series was conveyed to SCL in 1967 and given the notation of KS-24 class. Of the 200 cars, only 9 cars were equipped with removable steel roofs for tinplate service to TCI in Birmingham, AL to include SCL cars 746601, 746659, 746670, 746677, 746703, 746716, 746725, and 746741. The entire series was renumbered as SCL 746550-7466749.

In 1958, SAL again purchased 200 cars built by Magor Car Corporation which were dimensionally identical. Small details such as floor pan depth, lading band anchors, draft gear, handbrake components, and bearing pedestals differed, but otherwise the SAL 6750-6949 series were identical to the earlier series. The SAL 6750-6949 series was conveyed to SCL in 1967 and renumbered as SCL 746750-746949 and also given the notation of KS-24 class. This series included Universal hand brake components, but otherwise appear identical. The prototypes featured 14 side panels, 13 ribs and dreadnaught ends The cars featured a 41'6" interior length, an interior width of 9'6" and an interior height of 4'6". The cars were equipped with AB schedule brakes and were equipped with Barber A-3 Ride Control solid bearing trucks with 33" steel wheels. The cars were painted SAL oxide red and lettered with white stenciling and typically featured a red heart within the logo.

Of the 200 cars in this series, 6 cars have removable steel roofs, SCL 746938-746943. No notation is present for those members of the class which were converted to mud service (Florida Portland Cement) or stump service (typically assigned to Hercules Powder Company) in the diagrams I have, nor is a list of converted cars available to my knowledge. The drain slots were added during the SAL era that much is known.

The SAL Color Guide features several cars assigned to these varying services as follows:

SAL 6677 - Tinplate service, removable roof covers intact, painted in oxide red, lettered in white
SAL 6695 - Mud service, no drain slots present, painted in gray, lettered in black, no SAL heart logo
SAL 6758 - Stump service, drain slots present, painted in gray, lettered in black
SAL 6857 - Stump service, drain slots present, painted in gray, lettered in black
SAL 6865 - Stump service, drain slots present, painted in gray, lettered in black
SAL 6938 - Tinplate service, removable roof covers intact, painted in oxide red, lettered in white

Cars from both the G-11 series and the Magor built series were utilized in stump service with and without drain slots.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ACL-SAL-SCLmodeler/photos/albums/812749165

The ACL & SAL H.S.'s model is an accurate representation of both the G-11 and KS-24 sides (without drain holes), and is currently the only available alternative to scratch building the car sides. Much of the detailing is up to you, the modeler. There is a brief article by Paul Faulk in the Seaboard Coast Line Modeler Issue 21 if you wish to review the kit and methods used. I agree a nice styrene kit would be greatly appreciated by many, as the G-11 is a large representation of 1950s to 1980s Seaboard Air Line, Seaboard Coast Line, Seaboard System, and CSX modeling. These cars were extremely long lived and survived into CSXT reporting marks albeit in tie service.

Hope this helps set the record straight,
Justin May


SAL 41-ft 13 rib Gondola Mini Kit

Bill Welch
 

all of this Gondola talk is giving me goosebumps and reminds me I pick up a set of resin sides to be used with the Accurail kit to model a Seaboard Airline 41-ft gon with 13 ribs. It is available form the ACL/SAL Historical Society as catalog # M-60. Ther are two sides with no detail on interior side and nine corner gussets. The decals are from another kit but can easily be adapted to this kit. I have misplaced the instructions that has the historical information but there were a variety of ends. I cannot remember how easy or difficult the ends will be. It was pricey at $19 but  bought it anyway.


Maybe a SAL person can comment on the various ends.


Bill Welch


Re: inexpensive pin vice/extra collets/cheap vs expensive wire drills

riverman_vt@...
 

Thanks for sharing this excellent resource, Dennis. I used to deal with Hub Jewelers Supply on Washington St. in Boston but they seem to have disappeared some years ago. Frei appears to be at least as good if not better. One might also try JewelrySupply.com. I find most of these firms offer pricing far better than any other sources plus offering everything one needs from one source. Magnaviewers are a standard item, for example.
Check the prices of them, and replacement parts for them, with either of these firms and you will see what I mean when compared to other sources.

Thanks again, Don Valentine


Re: Accurail 41' steel gondola prototype question

Tim O'Connor
 


Maybe some of us are wondering why this general question is being asked in
the first place. A search of the group with "Accurail gondola prototype" coughs
up 118 messages that contain those three words, including these two from our
esteemed friend Richard Hendrickson

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/stmfc/conversations/messages/65367
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/stmfc/conversations/messages/59704

Another message (from Dennis Storzek) says the DSS&A gondolas were a match
except for the ladders (5 instead of 4 rungs). And replacing the ends will get
you many more including the postwar C&NW cars.

Tim O'Connor




 > I initiated that because it was available decorated for DL&W, and that was a Foobie.
 >  I kind of hoped that it would stimulate some similar efforts about other models, but
 > it�s not happened. Schuyler


Re: Accurail 41' steel gondola prototype question

al_brown03
 

Hi Schuyler,

Well, now the idea's back on the list ... got one you'd like done?

Best,

AL B.


Re: inexpensive pin vice/extra collets/cheap vs expensive wire drills

Tony Thompson
 

Jack Burgess wrote:

Not totally a waste of money though. I have one of those double-ended pin
vises set up with the tap drill for a 2-56 screw and the other for the tap
screw for a 3-48 screw (both typical truck screws including some very old
ones that I have). Coupled with both taps in dedicated tap holders, no more
changing of drills and taps to accommodate the trucks out there...


     Among the tools on Richard H's workbench were a pair of pin vises, with the tap drill at one end and the tap at the other, for 2-56 and 3-48. He had a couple of other pin vises with drill sizes commonly used (I assume), with bits mounted and the vise so labeled.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Accurail 41' steel gondola prototype question

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Whoops, thanks Al, transpositions R us.  (I could NEVER be an accountant!)

 

I initiated that because it was available decorated for DL&W, and that was a Foobie.  I kind of hoped that it would stimulate some similar efforts about other models, but it’s not happened.

 

Schuyler

 

A small correction: the file's called "Accurail 41' gon.xls". 14' sounds like a gondola version of those old-time Walthers single-truck passenger cars :-) .

The notion at the time was that we (as a list) could do the same kind of comparison to 1:1, for various commercial models in smaller scales. We haven't done another, but there's no reason we couldn't.

Al Brown
Melbourne, Fla.


Re: Accurail 41' steel gondola prototype question

al_brown03
 

A small correction: the file's called "Accurail 41' gon.xls". 14' sounds like a gondola version of those old-time Walthers single-truck passenger cars :-) .

The notion at the time was that we (as a list) could do the same kind of comparison to 1:1, for various commercial models in smaller scales. We haven't done another, but there's no reason we couldn't.

Al Brown
Melbourne, Fla.


frieght cars film

 

In the 1920 film Get Out and Get Under Harold Iloyd somehow drives his car onto a flat car of an LA&SL train.  It’s pulled by #8 Atlantic and consists of Harriman standard LA&SL truss rod and steel flats, a LA&SL B-50-6/9 box, MDT and NYC truss rod reefers, a LA&SL 40’ SS auto car with Vulcan end doors and LA&SL caboose.  Also a partial view of a MCRR USRA SS box.  The views are good enough for use in modeling. – Al Westerfield 


Re: inexpensive pin vice/extra collets/cheap vs expensive wire drills

prgm_mgr
 

Hi. Do you mean the bets are off center Or crooked when you look at him from the side. If off-center you can't do much. If crooked,you have to fiddle to get them straight.
Hope this helped!
mark k.


Re: Accurail 41' steel gondola prototype question

Schuyler Larrabee
 

On 11 May 2011, I uploaded in the files area an Excel spreadsheet regarding this car.  It lists all the road names in which Accurail offered the car and a categorization as to whether it was “Accurate,” “Real Close,” or a “Foobie.”  The list resulted from a fairly lengthy discussion on this list regarding which roads the cars were accurate for.

 

I think, but don’t recall for sure, that the list also includes some roads which were added to the Accurail-decorated list by list members.

 

The file is called “Accurail 14’ gon.xls”

 

Schuyler

 

Subject: [STMFC] Re: Accurail 41' steel gondola prototype question

 

 

The Accurail model represents the AAR 41" gondola built with Dreadnaught ends. I am using the ends that came with the kit to model an Illinois Central GS gon using the Detail Associates kit and the DA Improved Dreadnaught ends on the Georgia RR model. I also a few few different Sunshine  versions of the AAR gons.

 

Other kitbash possibilities with this car I think is a W&LE car with the Detail Associates flat panel ends, which lasted until about 1939 I think. Would love to find a 1955 example.

 

Bill Welch


Re: inexpensive pin vice/extra collets/cheap vs expensive wire drills

Jack Burgess
 

Tim wrote:
This thread inspired me to go down and look -- I have 12 pin vises, and 3 of
them are double ended. They're all loaded (and labeled with little bits of
tape) with various drills and taps. I hate to change them and frequently use
several different sizes in a work session.
I don't think I ever paid more than $5-$6 for a pin vise. Centering the
drill may take a little fiddling but once it's done I don't have to do it
again for a long time.

Of course for serious drilling (lotsa holes) I use a drill press.
---------------------------------------

After Bob Walker wrote an article in RMC about buying enough of the
double-end pin vises with the double collets at each end so that you didn't
need to switch collets, I did just that. Well...that suggestion didn't work
for me at least since the size of each collet didn't overlap the one above
and below it. Hence my suggestion for the one that I use all of the time
which can be used with all of the drill bits that modelers typically use.

Not totally a waste of money though. I have one of those double-ended pin
vises set up with the tap drill for a 2-56 screw and the other for the tap
screw for a 3-48 screw (both typical truck screws including some very old
ones that I have). Coupled with both taps in dedicated tap holders, no more
changing of drills and taps to accommodate the trucks out there...

Jack Burgess


Re: inexpensive pin vice/extra collets/cheap vs expensive wire drills

Tim O'Connor
 

This thread inspired me to go down and look -- I have 12 pin vises,
and 3 of them are double ended. They're all loaded (and labeled with
little bits of tape) with various drills and taps. I hate to change
them and frequently use several different sizes in a work session.
I don't think I ever paid more than $5-$6 for a pin vise. Centering
the drill may take a little fiddling but once it's done I don't have
to do it again for a long time.

Of course for serious drilling (lotsa holes) I use a drill press.

Tim O'Connor



http://www.modelexpo-online.com/product.asp?ITEMNO=MT1079

Not expensive, very light weight (which helps avoid breaking small #77-80 drill bits),
fast (no collets to change, no twisting of the cap to lock the collet), and it automatically
holds the drill bits straight. The collet works for drills from 61-80�
Jack Burgess


Re: Accurail 41' steel gondola prototype question

Bill Welch
 

The Accurail model represents the AAR 41" gondola built with Dreadnaught ends. I am using the ends that came with the kit to model an Illinois Central GS gon using the Detail Associates kit and the DA Improved Dreadnaught ends on the Georgia RR model. I also a few few different Sunshine  versions of the AAR gons.

Other kitbash possibilities with this car I think is a W&LE car with the Detail Associates flat panel ends, which lasted until about 1939 I think. Would love to find a 1955 example.

Bill Welch


Re: inexpensive pin vice/extra collets/cheap vs expensive wire drills

Jack Burgess
 

Ed…



It sounds like the pin vice is one of those with a pair of collets on each end. Instead, consider this pin vise:



http://www.modelexpo-online.com/product.asp?ITEMNO=MT1079



Not expensive, very light weight (which helps avoid breaking small #77-80 drill bits), fast (no collets to change, no twisting of the cap to lock the collet), and it automatically holds the drill bits straight. The collet works for drills from 61-80…



Jack Burgess



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 12:55 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] inexpensive pin vice/extra collets/cheap vs expensive wire drills








I bought an inexpensive pin vice off e bay and I can't get it to hold wire drills straight. Any comments?



Anyone know where I can get extra collets which hold the smaller sized wire drills?



Bought some US made , small wire drills off e bay ($6/doz) and they make cheaper, overseas made drills look like junk.



Ed Mines










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Jack's RMC DiY Blast Booth

Jack Burgess
 

You need to get not only your hands into the box but also your forearms in order to reach things. (To use the booth, I set things up, and then place the model in the box, close the lid. After putting on a pair of nitrile disposable gloves, and turn on the vacuum. I then put both arms into the sleeves and use one hand to pull the sleeve on the other arm up to my wrist and then do the other arm the same way. (The vacuum will pull the sleeves straight out making this an easy task.) I can then pick up the model in the bottom of the box with my left hand, pick up the air blaster with my right hand and start blasting.



Bottom line, you need to be able to get part of your arms into the box to reach things and you need something like nitrile gloves to be able to pick up your model and not accidentally break off parts…so you need to use some very thin gloves like the disposable ones. I use aluminum oxide with these gloves and they stand up fine….you should be blasting the model and not your hands.



As I mentioned in the other post, the vacuum will pull dust out of the air (and not necessarily the abrasives which still accumulate in the bottom of the box). That means that dust will not migrate up your arms, etc.



Jack



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 2:31 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Jack's RMC DiY Blast Booth





Bill -



Check out the plumbing department for plastic toilet flanges. These allow you to use nitrile gloves from Harbor Freight held on to the flange on the inside of the cabinet with clothes dryer screw drive hose clamps.



Paul Greenwald



On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 4:22 PM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



For those interested in Jack's homebuild, my trip to Home Depot proved fruitless in finding a box similar to Jack's Sterilite example with the latches on each end to grasp the top so I continued down the road to Lowe's where I found an almost identical box made by Hefty; it is a 29 QT capacity measuring 16.7 inches by 12 inches and 13 inches deep or high. Price is $7.48. I also purchased an 8x10 inch piece of Lexan, screws, nuts and washers and weather striping. I also bought a small 2.5 Gal. Shop Vac to collect the Baking Soda or to salvage more aggressive abrasives if I use them.



Jack used wood frames around the hand/arm opening to hold the elastic sleeves, but I am still cogitating on something similar that I can by as I do not have the tools to fabricate. My next trip to hardware store I will look for something I can adapt. I am hoping I can find a Dry Cleaner nearby that offers Alterations so I can hire them to make the sleeves. With the Shop Vac I will need something to cover an air inlet so will look for that too. I also want to find a fitting of some kind to firmly surround the Air Eraser hose. suggestions gladly accepted.



For 1-to-1 scale work I don't consider myself particularly handy or crafty and my tools a very minimal, but I think if I can find fittings to adapt, I "will "git 'er done." LOL



This box provides plenty of room to manipulate a 50-foot boxcar model or an F-Unit or early Geep. It is clear so I don't think a light will be necessary.



Bill Welch


Accurail 41' steel gondola prototype question

Jim Mischke
 

 I would like to have an Accurail 41' steel gondola in my fleet.  Not just any road name, what prototype is this model based on?

 

 

 


Re: Jack's RMC DiY Blast Booth

Jack Burgess
 

With the Shop Vac I will need something to cover an air inlet so will look for that too.

 

Note that I just cut a hole in the box and shoved a vacuum attachment into the hole and caulked the cracks around the hole. A couple of screws hole the vacuum attachment in place.

 

I also want to find a fitting of some kind to firmly surround the Air Eraser hose.

 

Just make the hole a little larger than the air eraser hose and don’t worry about a tight seal. The vacuum will draw air into the box (in order to suck the abrasives out) so little cracks aren’t a problem. The vacuum will also be pulling air in through the arm holes. In addition, some “play” in the hose is needed in order to reach to the far end of the box for working on something at the end…when working closer to the end with the air hose, the excess hose will simply slide back out of the box.

 

Jack Burgess


Re: Air Erasers or Abrasion Guns

Armand Premo
 


My profound apologies to STMFC members.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Air Erasers or Abrasion Guns

 



Picking? Me?The only thing I am picking today is my nose.There are some young Washington outsiders that I kind of like.Not Bush even though I think he is the brightest of the lthe family.I favor almost anyone who can bring some respect to Washington..We are both doing well.Stay warm.L,A BTW an A+ on the test.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Air Erasers or Abrasion Guns

 

Tim,

The stuff I've used is Paasche AEX.  It's been a while since I bought any and at the time it was all that was available IIRC.  Now they call AEX fast cutting and they also have AE (medium cutting) and SSO (slow cutting). 
I poked around on their site and found the MSDS for these products.  AEX is aluminum oxide--no grit size given.  AE is pumice, and SSO is food starch.  Possibly one of these gentler compounds would be safe on painted items but I'd be cautious.

John Bopp



On Mar 13, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 


What is the grit size for the Paasche aluminum oxide ? The label has no
size information. I've used the Badger grit and it seems more aggressive
than what I use in my booth which is 220 grit. I've tried to use baking
soda but it seemed much too soft, made a huge mess (in the garage), and
definitely is moisture absorbent.

Tim O'Connor



I've used an older Paasche LA-3 abrasive gun for some time.  The LAC-3 is the current version and has a carbide tip for better wear resistance.  I use it with Paasche compound for prepping brass for paint.  I used to use it only outdoors but now have a cabinet.  I found a cheap Harbor Freight blasting cabinet on closeout.  I threw out the HF gun and use the LA-3 in the cabinet.  I'm quite happy with it and Paasche products in general.
I've never used the LA-3 on plastic or any painted surfaces so can't say how it would work.  But I suspect it might be too aggressive and that the air eraser with a milder compound might be a better bet.

John Bopp
Farmington Hills, MI


On Mar 12, 2015, at 11:49 AM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



I have a small Badger Abrasion Gun that I use mainly for spraying Baking Soda to prep styrene and resin models before I paint. During my most recent etching ritual it became clogged and the usual cleaning steps did not clear it. I got frustrated and put it up and plan to completely disassemble it today to try to sort it out but I also went online today to see what is out there. TCP Global shows some Chinese Guns that I will look more closely at but I wanted to ask folks here if the have experience with either of these Passche Models:


Paasche Airbrush LAC#3 Abrasive Spray Gun

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Re: Jack's RMC DiY Blast Booth

Fred_Swa@...
 

http://www.harborfreight.com/rubber-blasting-gloves-4468.html  I googled for this url and up came some videos on building blast cabinets too.  
Fred Swanson



---In STMFC@..., <fgexbill@...> wrote :

For those interested in Jack's homebuild, my trip to Home Depot proved fruitless in finding a box similar to Jack's Sterilite example with the latches on each end to grasp the top so I continued down the road to Lowe's where I found an almost identical box made by Hefty; it is a 29 QT capacity measuring 16.7 inches by 12 inches and 13 inches deep or high. Price is $7.48. I also purchased an 8x10 inch piece of Lexan, screws, nuts and washers  and weather striping. I also bought a small 2.5 Gal. Shop Vac to collect the Baking Soda or to salvage more aggressive abrasives if I use them.

Jack used wood frames around the hand/arm opening to hold the elastic sleeves, but I am still cogitating on something similar that I can by as I do not have the tools to fabricate.  My next trip to hardware store I will look for something I can adapt. I am hoping I can find a Dry Cleaner nearby that offers Alterations so I can hire them to make the sleeves. With the Shop Vac I will need something to cover an air inlet so will look for that too. I also want to find a fitting of some kind to firmly surround the Air Eraser hose. suggestions gladly accepted.

For 1-to-1 scale work I don't consider myself particularly handy or crafty and my tools a very minimal, but I think if I can find fittings to adapt, I "will "git 'er done." LOL

This box provides plenty of room to manipulate a 50-foot boxcar model or an F-Unit or early Geep. It is clear so I don't think a light will be necessary.

Bill Welch

60921 - 60940 of 193435