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Re: Bananas to the Indianapolis?

Mikebrock
 

George Eichelberger writes about the Southern RR with his usual high level of competence and then notes:

(I hope all of this bandwidth does not get me in Mikes jail!)

Not hardly. In fact, I want more. George mentions that car FGE 35936 travels from Charleston to Cincinnati via Southern tracks. A quick look at the route shows that 35936 went either through Knoxville or Chattanooga on its way to Oakdale where it entered the Rathole to Cincinnati. If it went through Knoxville it would have probably taken the shortest route to Oak Dale through Clinton which meant that it would then have gone down the valley just north of Oak Ridge and I would likely have heard its train's whistle from up on the fenced in ridge...if we interrupted our "pickup" football game long enough to hear it.

A few yrs ago.

Mike Brock


Re: Bananas to the Indianapolis?

Tony Thompson
 

george eichelberger wrote:

Instructions for icing, ventilation, heating, milling, etc. read:

Front vents closed plugs in detached
Rear vents on irons plugs out
iced 2 ton at Charleston SC
Keep fans on

(maybe inbill can help decipher?)
Hatch plugs were separate parts of the hatch closure before the advent of steel hatch covers. Plugs were attached with chains on earlier cars (later hinged, though separately from covers), and the chains permitting dropping the plugs inside the car, or outside onto the roof alongside the hatch. I do not know what "detached" means, unless FGE or some other cars had a shackle or something in that chain, permitting detachment. The rest of that instruction sounds simply like plugs in normal place, hatch cover closed. "Vents on" of course refers to hatch covers latched open ("on irons). Running fans with ice in the bunkers ensured plenty of cool air circulation, and an open vent may have been an effort to keep the cargo from getting too cold. Bananas often were NOT iced, as cold can cause browning of the fruit's skin. PFE often assigned old cars with deteriorated insulation to banana service, as the cargo wasn't usually refrigerated anyway.
George, your article sounds very interesting. When it comes out, maybe you can let the list know how to buy copies from SRHA.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: URTX refrigerator car

Douglas Harding
 

Tim, the car does look freshly painted in the image I have. I can't read the
date at the far end of the car, indicating when it was weighed, but it might
be 36. Looks to be the early 36" CGW herald on the right side of the car,
above the words "ventilated refrigerator". And there are four lines of
lettering on the end of the car centered above the coupler.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2015 3:29 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: URTX refrigerator car


The photo I have shows a freshly painted car in 1936. It does not look like
a wood roof to me. Outside metal roofs were sheet metal over wood were they
not?

Tim O'


Tom I have a photo of that car, URTX 97136 lettered for the CGW, just as
you describe. It appears to have a wood roof, cant really tell. The blt
date is 5-23. The ends are wood, painted a dark color (FCR?), which based on
Denniss comments, says the car has not been rebuilt and thus has the wood
roof.

Doug Harding


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Re: Bananas to the Indianapolis?

George Eichelberger
 

Bananas from Charleston, SC were from ships docked at the Southern Railway owned pier. The Southern rounded up the empties, loaded and dispatched the cars, that may or may not have been Fruit Growers cars. United Fruit issued lists of refrigerator cars that could be used for banana loading. Cars were billed by the Fruit Dispatch Co. A portion of the outbound loads were interchanged to the ACL and SAL at Charleston.

Cars on the March 16, 1950 list of acceptable cars included ART (4,035 cars), FGE (4,949), WFE (1,696), BRE (762), IC (498), MDT (4,076), NRC (2,160), PFE (32,345), SFRD (10,176), DL&W (295), NP (1,285) and URT (479) for a total of 62,756 cars. Note, this is not a total of those companies reefers, only those acceptable to Fruit Dispatch. The URT cars, for example have a note “Cars in this series (37000-37999) acceptable if inside wall ribs are not exposed”. Some cars could be used for summer loading only.

An example waybill for FGE 35936, loaded by United Fruit Sales Corp. off SS Tucurinca #9 (ninth arrival at Charleston) at Sou. Rwy. pier 2, Charleston, SC 9-18-62 to Chicago. Consignee was Inland Trading Co. routed Sou to Cincinnati, Big Four to Kankakee, then IC to Chicago. Gross wt was 91440, tare 56200 and net 35240.

Freight charge for 35240 lbs was $444.60, minus $27.41 (W&H ABS?) for a transportation cost of $417.19. Warfage cost was $27.31, ice $13.08 and switching $.77 for a total of $41.16. Instructions for icing, ventilation, heating, milling, etc. read:

Front vents closed plugs in detached
Rear vents on irons plugs out
iced 2 ton at Charleston SC
Keep fans on

(maybe inbill can help decipher?)

We cannot tell from the waybill if this car actually went to Chicago. The Southern Railway Historical Association’s files have quite a few diversion telegrams that describe diversions at various terminals. Further research might let us match a diversion to a particular waybill. In reading through the file I did not realize how many local grocery stores and distributers received car loads of bananas. A large number of cars from Charleston appear to have been billed to Cincinnati for local distribution or further transfer.

I am working on a banana article for SRHA’s TIES magazine for later this year. If enough people find this kind of material interesting, it may be possible to suggest a presentation at this year’s St. Louis and Kennesaw (Atlanta) RPMs. The archives includes folders of 60-75 ship arrivals with EVERY outbound train consist. Banana specials were usually about 45 cars, appropriate for a Southern 2-8-2.

(I hope all of this bandwidth does not get me in Mikes jail!)

Ike


Re: Bananas to the Indianapolis?

Bill Welch
 

In my research I seem to remember coming across an annual Banana Festival in Fulton which at the time seemed an odd place for such an event but Jim's comment explains the context.

Bill Welch


Re: URTX refrigerator car

Tim O'Connor
 

The photo I have shows a freshly painted car in 1936. It does not look like
a wood roof to me. Outside metal roofs were sheet metal over wood were they not?

Tim O'

Tom I have a photo of that car, URTX 97136 lettered for the CGW, just as you describe. It appears to have a wood roof, can�t really tell. The blt date is 5-23. The ends are wood, painted a dark color (FCR?), which based on Dennis�s comments, says the car has not been rebuilt and thus has the �wood roof�.

Doug Harding


Re: Bananas to the Indianapolis?

james murrie
 

If I recall correctly the main IC station for servicing the banana refers as they traveled north from New Orleans was Fulton KY.
Jim Murrie


Re: Bananas to the Indianapolis?

earlyrail
 

Would the banana traffic have been diverted to other destinations while en-route to Chicago? Or would the bananas be transloaded in Chicago and sent to other destinations?
The IC Historical group did an "Green Diamond" magazine issue on banana traffic.
Bananas going north to Minnesota were interchanged at East Dubuque among other locations.

Howard Garner


Re: Bananas to the Indianapolis? (Photos Of Car Interiors)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Does anyone have a link to photos showing how the banana loads were arranged inside the cars? I assume this changed over time with experienced gained on how best to protect the load.


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: URTX refrigerator car

Dennis Storzek
 

Gene Green's reefer book has a photo of URTX 5093 with the world's smallest CGW "Lucky Strike" herald, must only be 18" in diameter, last reweigh 1-52, definitely wood roof and ends, painted FCR. The "bib" under the door is black.

Likewise URTX 5861 with a Soo Line herald, and URTX 4975 with the older M&StL herald. Several other cars assigned to the Soo and Louie with steel ends and roof painted black, but no other CGW pix. One other thing that seems consistent is the cars with steel ends and roof have the General American triangle stenciled to the left of the door, but the line work on this stencil is so thin that it's harder to see than the type of roof.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Bananas to the Indianapolis?

Aley, Jeff A
 

Hi Dave,

 

               Would the banana traffic have been diverted to other destinations while en-route to Chicago?  Or would the bananas be transloaded in Chicago and sent to other destinations?

 

               I guess my REAL question is whether the bananas at the grocery warehouse in Topeka, KS would have most likely arrived in IC reefers.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 10:52 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Bananas to the Indianapolis?

 

 

Per ICC reports the Banana traffic out of New Orleans (primary US port for banana imports) was almost exclusively to Chicago. I would imagine almost all distribution to nearby states would originate there.

Dave Nelson

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 11:05 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Bananas to the Indianapolis?

Do I recall correctly that the Illinois Central ran banana traffic to Indianapolis (an entire train?) ?

Also, if routed to the Midwest from the South, what kind of icing treatment and what refrigerator cars in the early 1950s? I wouldn't think that bananas would not need to be chilled as much as other perishable traffic.

Would most of the banana traffic to the huge Detroit Produce terminal come form East Coast ports from the IC via Chicago?

Victor A. Baird

www.erstwhilepublications.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: URTX refrigerator car

Armand Premo
 


Perhaps by decades would simplify the data.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] URTX refrigerator car

 

Compiling that data would be a daunting task and the ratio would change significantly each year after WWII.


I use the bound NMRA ORER as a guide and there were plenty of 36 ft. wood side box cars listed in 1943. I suspect most of these cars were retired as soon as  new cars were delivered.



Ed Mines

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Re: Bananas to the Indianapolis?

Dave Nelson
 

Per ICC reports the Banana traffic out of New Orleans (primary US port for banana imports) was almost exclusively to Chicago. I would imagine almost all distribution to nearby states would originate there.



Dave Nelson



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 11:05 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Bananas to the Indianapolis?








Do I recall correctly that the Illinois Central ran banana traffic to Indianapolis (an entire train?) ?



Also, if routed to the Midwest from the South, what kind of icing treatment and what refrigerator cars in the early 1950s? I wouldn't think that bananas would not need to be chilled as much as other perishable traffic.



Would most of the banana traffic to the huge Detroit Produce terminal come form East Coast ports from the IC via Chicago?



Victor A. Baird

www.erstwhilepublications.com










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: URTX refrigerator car

Tony Thompson
 

​Perhaps four or five years ago, I received a JPEG which someone on the list, possibly the late Richard Fredrickson, sent me.  


    I assume the person meant is Richard Hendrickson. 

Tony Thompson




Re: URTX refrigerator car

ed_mines
 

Compiling that data would be a daunting task and the ratio would change significantly each year after WWII.


I use the bound NMRA ORER as a guide and there were plenty of 36 ft. wood side box cars listed in 1943. I suspect most of these cars were retired as soon as  new cars were delivered.



Ed Mines


Re: URTX refrigerator car

Douglas Harding
 

Tom I have a photo of that car, URTX 97136 lettered for the CGW, just as you describe. It appears to have a wood roof, can’t really tell. The blt date is 5-23. The ends are wood, painted a dark color (FCR?), which based on Dennis’s comments, says the car has not been rebuilt and thus has the “wood roof”.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: URTX refrigerator car

Aley, Jeff A
 

Yes.

 

I believe it was John Nehrich who published a chart or table of that info in an old issue of MR.  Try March 1986 and see if that article of his includes the info you seek.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 8:45 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] URTX refrigerator car

 

 

Speaking of wood and metal,has anyone  compiled the ratio  of wood vs steel cars by decade? Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----

To: STMFC@...

Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 10:35 AM

Subject: [STMFC] URTX refrigerator car

 

 

Group,

 

​Perhaps four or five years ago, I received a JPEG which someone on the list, possibly the late Richard Fredrickson, sent me.  The car in question is URTX 97136 leased to the Chicago Great Western. The 3/4 shot does not reveal whether the car had a metal or wood roof.  Does anyone have information this car -- and presumably others in the same series?

 

Tom Baker

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Re: URTX refrigerator car

Armand Premo
 

Speaking of wood and metal,has anyone  compiled the ratio  of wood vs steel cars by decade? Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 10:35 AM
Subject: [STMFC] URTX refrigerator car

 

Group,


​Perhaps four or five years ago, I received a JPEG which someone on the list, possibly the late Richard Fredrickson, sent me.  The car in question is URTX 97136 leased to the Chicago Great Western. The 3/4 shot does not reveal whether the car had a metal or wood roof.  Does anyone have information this car -- and presumably others in the same series?


Tom Baker

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4311/9421 - Release Date: 03/31/15


Re: URTX refrigerator car

Dennis Storzek
 

What was the paint scheme? URTX seemed to stick with inside metal roofs (which, for our modeling, look like wood roofs on the outside) rather late... general rule of thumb is if the car still had wood ends the roof had not been changed, and roof and ends were painted FCR. Cars rebuilt with steel ends after General American acquired URTX also received steel roofs, and the roof and ends were painted black.

Dennis Storzek


URTX refrigerator car

Thomas Baker
 

Group,


​Perhaps four or five years ago, I received a JPEG which someone on the list, possibly the late Richard Fredrickson, sent me.  The car in question is URTX 97136 leased to the Chicago Great Western. The 3/4 shot does not reveal whether the car had a metal or wood roof.  Does anyone have information this car -- and presumably others in the same series?


Tom Baker

59761 - 59780 of 192622