Date   

Re: USRA single sheathed box cars flooring questions

jayrs9
 

Thanks Eric for all your work.  This will greatly help me in my search for original drawings.  I found and order both Vol 128 of Railroad History and Vol 17 of Railway Prototype Cyclopedia which may have some of the same info, but you have done all the collection process for me and I can get started on my search while I wait for the postal service.

Dennis, thanks for a peak inside the working of the Pullman Library.  I sent an email query to them a couple days ago using the address in the link you gave (pullmanlibrary@...) but have not heard back.  Is there a more specific email address, I fear my email might have fallen into some deep hole.

Jay Ruppel


Re: dental wax

Edward
 

Ed and all,

When I had impressions taken for making a 5 unit bridge for my lower right jaw in 2005, the dentist used a hard setting epoxy-like resin.  It was sort of purple in color, very soft and mushy when put on. Remarkably hard when set.  I don't know if dental wax is made or used anymore.


Ed Bommer




dental wax

ed_mines
 

Anyone have experience with this for making molds?


Is it still made?


Ed Mines


a tank car dome platform project

Tony Thompson
 

The platforms around the domes of tank cars, or around valve bonnets of high-pressure cars, can be an interesting challenge to model. The topic has surfaced on this list a number of times. I had the idea to modify a commercial part for this application, and have described what I did in a new blog post. If you would like to read it, it's at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/05/another-approach-to-tank-car-platforms.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Tru Color Paint Stripper?

mwbauers
 

I now realize that my practices are not the norm.

From the start I begin spray painting by using a test piece of scrap cardboard to see how the paint I’m using handles and what is the better distance to use to get the best results.

I also prefer to use a paint like Floquil [which I stopped using a long timer ago] and my normal paint is Scalecoat that I apply in perhaps four passes to a side.

I settled in spraying at about 15-pounds of pressure early on and see that the tutes are using 25-35 pounds for the same paints I filter for lumps, thin and spray at 16-pounds. I don’t know why the average looking slightly thinned paints I use work well at much below the now recommended pressure…… but they do.

example..


I’ve alway upped the pressure for water based paints. But by feel to get the spray result I want on a test piece without noting that I should be going directly to 35-pounds or so. I don’t think I ever go that high. I do up the pressure for water based paints. But I don’t think I go to 35 pounds with the same common airbrushes that I use at 15 pounds.

So I’m misting on the paint from a distance that works well with the slightly thinned paint under a pressure that others would tell me is just too low.

I don’t know better. I just know that I test it each time before I paint a model and that it works so well for me that I’ve not had to use nor discover what the conventional settings had become. When I started spray painting ages ago, 12-15 pounds was recommended for thinned and additive gloss standard Floquil and I have that as my base setting.

A good spray painting is a combination and dependent interaction of the pressure used, the distance sprayed from, the fluidity of the paint mix, and the chosen speed at which the airbrush is passed over the model while traveling from side to side.

I must conclude that I really can’t advise on spray painting since my well-practiced method is seemingly not practical per the common recommendations.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On May 29, 2015, at 8:50 AM, 'Nelson Moyer' ku0a@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Mike, read the painting primer on the Tamiya web page.

http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/feature.php?article-id=35#.VWhot5Mo4-U

Keep in mind that this primer refers to rattle cans where the user can’t alter pressure other than by heating the can. With an airbursh, we control both distance and pressure. With acetone based paint, pressure is the overriding culprit at normal painting distance, since the carrier flashes off so quickly with increased air pressure. I was painting at about 36-38 psi at a distance of 5-6 in. when I painted the reefer sides. Any closer would have blown them off the tape! The pressure setting was from the last paint session when I painted the interior of my stock cars with a siphon feed Paasche H and a #5 tip. I started painting with the gravity feed Iwata without reducing the pressure (big mistake), and I flashed the carrier. Have you actually tried painting with Tru Color?

Mr. Johnson’s primer (aside from misspelled words), is the best summary of model painting technique I’ve seen yet, and I imagine many on the list will find it interesting and informative.

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] 
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2015 12:29 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tru Color Paint Stripper?

You state two problems.

I addressed your first.

" and I ended up with flat grainy sides from "

I've been airbrush painting since the late '60's. Your finish problem is not pressure related. That will show up as a very different effect.

Mike Bauers



On May 28, 2015, at 2:05 PM, "'Nelson Moyer' ku0a@... <mailto:ku0a@...> [STMFC]" <STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...> > wrote:

Mike, that wasn’t the question. I already know the issues re grainy paint i.e. too much air pressure and/or too far away. What I want to know is, what do I strip Tru Color paint. You didn’t address that questions, so why the post?

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC@...> [mailto:STMFC@...] 
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 12:29 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC@...> 
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tru Color Paint Stripper?

The old rule is that if the paint job is grainy, as if drying before it hits the model…… you are spraying from too far away.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

> On May 28, 2015, at 12:01 PM, 'Nelson Moyer' wrote:
> 
> 
> I painted two reefer sides with Tru Color WFE Yellow last night using a new Iwata gravity feed airbrush. Apparently, the gravity feed takes much less air pressure than my Paasche siphon feed airbrush, and I ended up with flat grainy sides from too much air pressure. The Tru Color web page doesn’t address suitable strippers for their paints, so I’d like to know what to use to strip the Sunshine resin sides without damaging them.
> 
> 
> 
> Nelson Moyer


Re: Mercury CA

Bill Welch
 

I am going to buy the 10 gram size myself.

Bill Welch


Re: Tru Color Paint Stripper?

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

Mike, read the painting primer on the Tamiya web page.



http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/feature.php?article-id=35#.VWhot5Mo4-U



Keep in mind that this primer refers to rattle cans where the user can’t alter pressure other than by heating the can. With an airbursh, we control both distance and pressure. With acetone based paint, pressure is the overriding culprit at normal painting distance, since the carrier flashes off so quickly with increased air pressure. I was painting at about 36-38 psi at a distance of 5-6 in. when I painted the reefer sides. Any closer would have blown them off the tape! The pressure setting was from the last paint session when I painted the interior of my stock cars with a siphon feed Paasche H and a #5 tip. I started painting with the gravity feed Iwata without reducing the pressure (big mistake), and I flashed the carrier. Have you actually tried painting with Tru Color?



Mr. Johnson’s primer (aside from misspelled words), is the best summary of model painting technique I’ve seen yet, and I imagine many on the list will find it interesting and informative.



Nelson Moyer



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2015 12:29 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tru Color Paint Stripper?





You state two problems.



I addressed your first.



" and I ended up with flat grainy sides from "

I've been airbrush painting since the late '60's. Your finish problem is not pressure related. That will show up as a very different effect.



Mike Bauers
On May 28, 2015, at 2:05 PM, "'Nelson Moyer' ku0a@mchsi.com <mailto:ku0a@mchsi.com> [STMFC]" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:



Mike, that wasn’t the question. I already know the issues re grainy paint i.e. too much air pressure and/or too far away. What I want to know is, what do I strip Tru Color paint. You didn’t address that questions, so why the post?

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 12:29 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tru Color Paint Stripper?

The old rule is that if the paint job is grainy, as if drying before it hits the model…… you are spraying from too far away.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On May 28, 2015, at 12:01 PM, 'Nelson Moyer' wrote:


I painted two reefer sides with Tru Color WFE Yellow last night using a new Iwata gravity feed airbrush. Apparently, the gravity feed takes much less air pressure than my Paasche siphon feed airbrush, and I ended up with flat grainy sides from too much air pressure. The Tru Color web page doesn’t address suitable strippers for their paints, so I’d like to know what to use to strip the Sunshine resin sides without damaging them.



Nelson Moyer


Re: Mercury CA

Mark Stamm
 

Interesting find.  I typically buy the LHS rebranded stuff it not great, but it is cost effective when you end up throwing away half the bottle every time.  I'll have to give it a try. 

Thanks
Mark

Mark P Stamm
Mark at Euphoriatt dot Com

Sent from my mobile device

On May 29, 2015, at 6:25 AM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

This "CA" was recommended on a military related modeling Blog. The fact that ir is warranted and they have paid attention to "nozzle clogging" attracted me. I enjoyed reading "The Science" part.


Bill Welch

Mercury Adhesives ~ Scientifically Engineered CA hobby glues, adhesives, foam compatible adhesives, debonder, accelerator, and thread locker



Re: Devils Advocate regarding chemical paint strippers

Benjamin Hom
 

Nelson Moyer asked:
"Interestingly, Tru Color said brake fluid was very efficient about removing their paints, but they didn’t say anything about substrate survival. What are the effects of short time exposure of resin and styrene (Evergreen) to brake fluid, and are all brake fluids equally effective and have the same effect on resin and styrene?"

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT USING BRAKE FLUID ON RESIN.  You'll end up with a $30+ blob of resin instead of a model.

Effects on styrene vary.  Older models such as Athearn blue box and legacy trainset models are unaffected by brake fluid; newer models such as Proto 2000 have been documented becoming brittle when soaked in brake fluid. When in doubt and if possible, test a piece of scrap or kit sprue in the stripper before you dunk the model.


Ben Hom  


Mercury CA

Bill Welch
 

This "CA" was recommended on a military related modeling Blog. The fact that ir is warranted and they have paid attention to "nozzle clogging" attracted me. I enjoyed reading "The Science" part.


Bill Welch

Mercury Adhesives ~ Scientifically Engineered CA hobby glues, adhesives, foam compatible adhesives, debonder, accelerator, and thread locker



Re: Tru Color Paint Stripper?

Greg Martin
 

Nelson,
 
I have never personally stripped resin, but I wouldn't use Brake Fluid.  I would try 90% Isopropyl Alcohol. And you can test it on the side of the car in single area to see it is going to 'lift" the paint.
 
I have had similar issues with Tru Color last summer with high humidity and higher temperatures (above 90º). I was able to let it dry and repaint it with another coat later in the evening. I did wet sand some of the worst spots.  I haven't given up on Tru Color but the jury is still out.  I can't seem to get away from FLOQUIL and TESTORS solvent based paints.
 
Greg Martin   
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 

In a message dated 5/28/2015 10:28:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
I painted two reefer sides with Tru Color WFE Yellow last night using a new Iwata gravity feed airbrush. Apparently, the gravity feed takes much less air pressure than my Paasche siphon feed airbrush, and I ended up with flat grainy sides from too much air pressure. The Tru Color web page doesn’t address suitable strippers for their paints, so I’d like to know what to use to strip the Sunshine resin sides without damaging them.
>
>
>
> Nelson Moyer


Re: Tru Color Paint Stripper?

mwbauers
 

You state two problems.

I addressed your first.

" and I ended up with flat grainy sides from "

I've been airbrush painting since the late '60's. Your finish problem is not pressure related. That will show up as a very different effect.

Mike Bauers


On May 28, 2015, at 2:05 PM, "'Nelson Moyer' ku0a@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Mike, that wasn’t the question. I already know the issues re grainy paint i.e. too much air pressure and/or too far away. What I want to know is, what do I strip Tru Color paint. You didn’t address that questions, so why the post?

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 12:29 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tru Color Paint Stripper?

The old rule is that if the paint job is grainy, as if drying before it hits the model…… you are spraying from too far away.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

> On May 28, 2015, at 12:01 PM, 'Nelson Moyer' wrote:
>
>
> I painted two reefer sides with Tru Color WFE Yellow last night using a new Iwata gravity feed airbrush. Apparently, the gravity feed takes much less air pressure than my Paasche siphon feed airbrush, and I ended up with flat grainy sides from too much air pressure. The Tru Color web page doesn’t address suitable strippers for their paints, so I’d like to know what to use to strip the Sunshine resin sides without damaging them.
>
>
>
> Nelson Moyer


Re: Devils Advocate regarding chemical paint strippers

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

Bill,



I’m using 25 psi for undiluted Tru Color after the reefer side fiasco at 30+ psi, but I’ve only painted a Rock Island caboose since the reefer side problem. Clearly, I need to do some trial and error on cardboard before trying to paint another model with Tru Color. The caboose has the ‘shiny spot’ problem.



The email from Tru Color today recommended 28-35 psi at a distance of 5-7 inches. The Tru Color web page says to start at 25 psi, and increase the psi if necessary. Of course, that will depend upon your airbrush tip size, and whether you’re using a gravity or siphon feed airbrush. My gravity feed Iwata has a #3 needle and tip, and 25 psi seems to work with their RI Freight Car Red.



I’ve seen the C&S and D&RGW cars at the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden, CO, and they’re between oxide red and zinc chromate primer in their present condition, lots of paint oxidation and fading. I’m leaning toward the benchmark – if it looks good to me, then that’s good enough.



Nelson Moyer



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 8:39 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Devils Advocate regarding chemical paint strippers





Nelson I am using their D&RGW Freight car red, a reddish brown. Polyscale had several boxcar colors (including a Zinc Chromite that I use for PRR) and while Modelflex is my main paint, I have decided to use up my supply of their various colors that I have while the paint is still viable. It has a good shelf life.



With Modelfex I would have mixed the Oxide Red with their Freight Car Brown. I am not fussy about exactness.



Personally I would not trust Brake fluid with resin.



I have eight bottles of Tru-Color I intend to sell, trade or give away. I am sticking with what has worked well for me for 20 plus years.



Nelson did you say you were spraying at 30 PSI with a gravity feed AB? I would think 12-15 PSI would be more appropriate.



Bill Welch





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: USRA single sheathed box cars flooring questions

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <elombard@...> wrote :

Hello Everyone,

I have uploaded a spreadsheet that tabulates all USRA Single-sheathed cars built NEW as well as all so far  uncovered that were renumbered or rebuilt and renumbered but retained their original general side and end construction.

=================

Very useful Eric.

As I suspected, it appears that all 6000 cars Pullman built for the Gov't were built under Lot 5294, and likewise, all 6000 cars H&B built for the Gov't were built under Lot 5179. The apparent correlation between the lot numbers is just a coincidence; each company had their own lot number series at this time.

That means that the railroad names and number series will not appear on the builder's drawings... but the lot number will. Not to fault Ted and the crew at the Pullman Library, but no one is a freight car expert, and as you get down into the component level drawings, it's often not real evident what you are looking at anyway. The lot number is what keeps everyone on the same page, since it appears on almost all the drawings.

I am NOT part of the regular library crew... but did spend considerable time organizing the H&B drawings a couple years ago, and have also had searches done for Pullman drawings of this vintage, so let me pass along what little experience I have.

The library does have a mostly complete drawing index for the Pullman freight car drawings. Looking up that lot number in the index will yield a drawing list. Pullman drawings were numbered in a different series for EACH SIZE DRAWING SHEET. The drawing list makes it possible to find all the applicable drawing numbers in one place. The drawings are stored rolled in tubes, but each tube is marked with the start and end number of the drawings it contains. The drawing list allows the proper tubes to be pulled. They then have to be opened and unrolled to find the correct sheet(s), and those sheets can then be scanned. The library uses the drawing number as the image file name, so a search of the image data base will turn up any drawing that has already been scanned.

There is no master index for the H&B drawings. Because of this, those drawings are stored in drawers to make them a bit more accessible. H&B tended to assign a continuous block of drawing numbers to each lot. However, since the sheets are different sizes, they end up in different drawers, so this is little help. All the drawings of a given size are filed in numerical order, which mostly coincides with chonological order, so the search strategy is to riffle through the drawers until in the approximate date range, looking for the lot numbers on the drawings. Again, each size sheet is a separate search. Again, the scanned image database has a field for the lot number, so if the desired drawings have already been scanned, this will be determined before the paper search begins.

I hope this explanation is helpful.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Devils Advocate regarding chemical paint strippers

Bill Welch
 

Nelson I am using their D&RGW Freight car red, a reddish brown. Polyscale had several boxcar colors (including a Zinc Chromite that I use for PRR) and while Modelflex is my main paint, I have decided to use up my supply of their various colors that I have while the paint is still viable. It has a good shelf life.

With Modelfex I would have mixed the Oxide Red with their Freight Car Brown. I am not fussy about exactness.

Personally I would not trust Brake fluid with resin.

I have eight bottles of Tru-Color I intend to sell, trade or give away. I am sticking with what has worked well for me for 20 plus years.

Nelson did you say you were spraying at 30 PSI with a gravity feed AB? I would think 12-15 PSI would be more appropriate.

Bill Welch


Re: Devils Advocate regarding chemical paint strippers

Robert Cheeks
 

On 5/28/2015 5:50 PM, 'Nelson Moyer' ku0a@mchsi.com [STMFC] wrote:



Interestingly, Tru Color said brake fluid was very efficient
about removing their paints, but they didn’t say anything about

substrate survival. What are the effects of short time

exposure of resin and styrene (Evergreen) to brake fluid, and

are all brake fluids equally effective and have the same

effect on resin and styrene?



Nelson Moyer

Nelson,
I don't know about resin but some brake fluids will make some
plastics brittle. Yes that is a vague statement however the results
are inconsistent. This has been discussed a lot on the Diesel
list with the conclusion that grit blasting, 91% isopropyl
alcohol and oven cleaner are the safest methods, in that order.

I have used alcohol on Accu+paint and Star (PBL) on plastic
with good results. I have not tried it on resin.

Robert Cheeks
Riverside,CA


Re: Devils Advocate regarding chemical paint strippers

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

Bill,



Which Poly Scale color or mix are you going to use on your CB&Q models? I struggled with that for a couple of years, and finally decided to wait for Tru Color to release TCP-240, CB&Q Freight Car Red, before painting a backlog of 50+ CB&Q Sunshine, Westerfield, and Speedwitch resin cars. Now that it’s out, I’m not sure I like the color or the way the paint handles. Among the backlog are 24 CB&Q SM-16/SM-18 stock cars, and I want to vary the paint from relatively new paint to faded and peeling paint, so I need to use variations on the basic color to achieve my goal.



Interestingly, Tru Color said brake fluid was very efficient about removing their paints, but they didn’t say anything about substrate survival. What are the effects of short time exposure of resin and styrene (Evergreen) to brake fluid, and are all brake fluids equally effective and have the same effect on resin and styrene?



Nelson Moyer



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 5:48 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Devils Advocate regarding chemical paint strippers





As I prepare to paint a couple of Speedwitch CB&Q models with some discontinued Polyscale acrylic paint (I prefer working with acrylics) I was thinking about Nelson's question regarding paint strippers, something I have only one failed attempt using Chameleon on two resin kits (don't do it unless you want to ruin your model).



I am not a chemist or engineer but I do wonder about subjecting styrene and resin to strong chemical substances. I strikes me that both of these medias are relatively fragile plus most if not all of use CA when assembling them, especially resin. Is it authoritatively known that the chemicals commonly used to strip paint have no long term effect on styrene, resin and CA?



I was worried enough about this that with my second experience stripping paint I used a media blaster and aluminum oxide and was very happy with the results and the styrene hoppers were not exposed to chemicals.



Just wondering out loud and being a little bit of a Devil's Advocate since I really do not know.



Bill Welch





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: A Compound Shipment Of Barley

earlyrail
 

A Little bit of more research confirms that this is animal feed.

Malt sprouts consist of dried sprouts and rootlets produced during the malting (germination of sprouting) of barley for brewing. Sprouts should contain at least 24 percent crude protein.


Devils Advocate regarding chemical paint strippers

Bill Welch
 

As I prepare to paint a couple of Speedwitch CB&Q models with some discontinued Polyscale acrylic paint (I prefer working with acrylics) I was thinking about Nelson's question regarding paint strippers, something I have only one failed attempt using Chameleon on two resin kits (don't do it unless you want to ruin your model).


I am not a chemist or engineer but I do wonder about subjecting styrene and resin to strong chemical substances. I strikes me that both of these medias are relatively fragile plus most if not all of use CA when assembling them, especially resin. Is it authoritatively known that the chemicals commonly used to strip paint have no long term effect on styrene, resin and CA?


I was worried enough about this that with my second experience stripping paint I used a media blaster and aluminum oxide and was very happy with the results and the styrene hoppers were not exposed to chemicals.


Just wondering out loud and being a little bit of a Devil's Advocate since I really do not know.


Bill Welch


Re: Looking for help to view Beta tape

tbarney2004
 

Those should fit commercial betacam decks. Check with your local TV news department. They may possibly have an old unit or two if they haven't gone or have very recently gone to digital recording.

Tim Barney


-------- Original message --------
From: "rxensen@... [STMFC]"
Date:05/28/2015 2:29 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Looking for help to view Beta tape

The CNWHS has a number of tapes what they would like to see what they are.

The one on my desk is named R#9 Freeze 10-29-87 Railroad.

It is on a Sony BCT-20K BETACAN tape.

I know this is beyond this groups time frame, however I think a few are in the correct time era. I will also ask the modern era group.

Our problem is finding someone with equipment that can look at these.

Regular Beta machines will not work.

There is speculation they are records of cars put through the Proviso yard.

Any help would be appreciated

Ron Christensen


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