Date   

Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Yes, John, but this is the DL&W.  There was a good bit of ??? on the erielack list about that gauntlet track.  The speculation is that it’s involved with the scale house in the far distance.

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2015 4:00 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

 

 

Also interesting is the center track which looks like dual guage or long gauntlet track.  Don't  I've ever seen a piece quite like this.  Wasn't the Erir 6' originally?

 

John Larkin

 


Re: RESURECTED CAR

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 6/8/2015 3:01 PM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] wrote:
Bill, unfortunately this list does not permit attachments.

    Interesting that I received the photo not as an attachment but in the text and it looks good, nice job.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: RESURECTED CAR

Bill Welch
 

Bill, unfortunately this list does not permit attachments. I suggest try uploading it to the photo section where you will be told the folder is empty after you upload it. Fear not, the moderators will approve it and it will magically appear for all of to enjoy. We are of the same generation I think and if I can do it, you can to, it is not Rocket Surgery.

Bill Welch


Re: RESURECTED CAR

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Very nice that Bill

Paul Doggett  UK




Sent from Samsung mobile

"WILLIAM PARDIE PARDIEW001@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 


As I am not a child of the space age and posting photos to folders is not an item that I have mastered I submit the enclosed 
photo th hsow that some modeling is done in Paradise.  Since some have recently attached photos I thought that I would
take a cahnce with this.

This is a Quality Craft Kit that I originally did in the 70's.  AS I did not have access to much prototype information back then I pretty much followed the kit instructions.  It remained one of my favorite cars but suffered some damage over the years.
I recently obtained some good photos and some decals from a list member.  The rebuilding went on and on  but is finally
completed.

Hope you enjoy:

Bill Pardie




DSCN2245

 



RESURECTED CAR

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


As I am not a child of the space age and posting photos to folders is not an item that I have mastered I submit the enclosed 
photo th hsow that some modeling is done in Paradise.  Since some have recently attached photos I thought that I would
take a cahnce with this.

This is a Quality Craft Kit that I originally did in the 70's.  AS I did not have access to much prototype information back then I pretty much followed the kit instructions.  It remained one of my favorite cars but suffered some damage over the years.
I recently obtained some good photos and some decals from a list member.  The rebuilding went on and on  but is finally
completed.

Hope you enjoy:

Bill Pardie




DSCN2245

 



More Single Sheathed Resin Model Photos

Bill Welch
 

For those interested I have posted photos of CB&Q and NP 50-foot and Wabash and FW&D 40-ft Single Sheathed model builds over on the Resin Model Building Yahoo site. They are imbedded as attachments to messages i just posted with subject lines to help you find them.


Resinators Unite!


Bill Welch


Re: PRR G25 gondolas

SUVCWORR@...
 

Gene,

Yes.  You will find this same situation with other PRR cars.  It resulted from accounting procedures.  Blocks of numbers were assigned to lines west of Pittsburgh vs lines east of Pittsburgh and some of the other major wholely owned lines all operated as PRR.  Generally (nothing is absolute here), cars assigned numbers below 500000 were assigned to lines east and those over 500000 to lines west for accounting -- cost of acquisition, maintenance etc.  They all freely roamed the system and rails of the nation.  This practice ended with the acquisition of the X31 boxcars.  While not all cars of a given class or subclass were in the same number series, the separate series were not because of accounting.  Most often it was a case of finding a large enough group of available numbers to slot in the new cars without undertaking a massive renumbering.

Rich Orr





There appears to be more than one number series for PRR G25 gondolas.  Would all G25 gons have the same appearance regardless of number series?  Same appearance but different stenciling?
PRR G25 gons 825392 (825288-825436) and 840410 (840319-840440) were on the M&StL in February 1949 and May 1950 respectively, hauling "steel" and "pig iron" respectively.  
Would the photo of PRR G25 gondola 316084 (eBay item #121669089356 from Ted Culotta) show me what 825392 or 840410 should look like?
Gene Green


Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

water.kresse@...
 

That is way ahead of the C&O.  C.P. Huntington believe the railroads only needed to get New River coal down to the barge loading facilities and then let the more efficient Ohio River carry it to the markets.
Al


From: "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2015 11:15:59 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Hoppers from early 20th century

 

Jim Hunter wrote:
"Some of the earliest hoppers were also wood - there's one in the museum in Strasburg, PA."
 
PRR Class GG (PY&A 1818 is the car at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania); HO scale model available from Westerfield:
 
 
Ben Hom
 



Re: [EXTERNAL] PRR G25 gondolas (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Gene;

In all the G25 photos I looked at, the only differences I saw were related to the eventual G25B conversions, where they welded up the ends, added grabs, and did away with the rotating brake stand. PRR pretty much left these guys alone, and then got rid of them as fast as they could afford to, unlike the PRR-designed classes they upgraded. I think your reference photo should do just fine. Are you doing the rotating brake stand?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2015 10:56 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] PRR G25 gondolas



There appears to be more than one number series for PRR G25 gondolas. Would all G25 gons have the same appearance regardless of number series? Same appearance but different stenciling?

PRR G25 gons 825392 (825288-825436) and 840410 (840319-840440) were on the M&StL in February 1949 and May 1950 respectively, hauling "steel" and "pig iron" respectively.


Would the photo of PRR G25 gondola 316084 (eBay item #121669089356 from Ted Culotta) show me what 825392 or 840410 should look like?


Gene Green




Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

Benjamin Hom
 

Jim Hunter wrote:
"Some of the earliest hoppers were also wood - there's one in the museum in Strasburg, PA."
 
PRR Class GG (PY&A 1818 is the car at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania); HO scale model available from Westerfield:
 
 
Ben Hom
 


Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

water.kresse@...
 

Railroads didn't want to give  up on their parts investments in archbar trucks in 1905-ish timeframe.  Even early cast frames were designed to utilize the journal boxes from old trucks (started on C&O around 1910).  Therefore, as these early steel hopper cars and FB gondola cars started to develop rivet hole opening and cracking issues, they had to be rebuilt in the early mid-1920s.  Forty ton house cars got their de-rated old 50-ton trucks and rebuilt coal cars got the latest cast sideframe trucks.
Al Kresse


From: "Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2015 10:35:13 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Hoppers from early 20th century

 
On 6/8/2015 6:58 AM, water.kresse@... [STMFC] wrote:

I believe they were wooden flat-bottom gondola cars . . . about ready to bust in the middle.  Good catch. 


    John Allen would have loved those!  Interesting that the steel cars have archbar trucks.


--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

John Larkin
 

Bruce,
    I looked at the width of the track and it (very) roughly looks like the center two rails are the same as the other tracks in the picture (4-81/2"+/-), leaving the outer rails at a wider gauge, maybe not quite 6'.  You're right, they are too far out to support blind drivers.
     There is a fair amount of curvature so there may have been some desire for guard rails and these could have been somewhat effective in holding a derailed wheel(s) inside the outer rail. They may not have been judged very cost effective since I don't remember seeing much, if any, use elsewhere.
John Larkin



On Monday, June 8, 2015 8:43 AM, "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
John,

No 6’ gauge in 1912, afaik ;)  

I think that the center track is demonstrating a style of guard rail.  I can’t tell if the guard rails are the inner or outer rails, but there are photos of up to 5 rails on a PRR line at a similar time.  One theory is that the extra rails may have provided additional support for blind locomotive drivers on tighter curves, but that theory has the logical problem that the support is only on one side of the rail, yet the track curves in both directions.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jun 8, 2015, at 2:59 AM, John Larkin jflarkingrc@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Also interesting is the center track which looks like dual guage or long gauntlet track.  Don't  I've ever seen a piece quite like this.  Wasn't the Erir 6' originally?

John Larkin







Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

Benjamin Hom
 


Jon Miller wrote:
"Interesting that the steel cars have archbar trucks."
 
Considering the date of the photo, there's nothing weird about the mix of cars or the archbar trucks at all.  Keep in mind while the first steel freight cars were hoppers and gons, not all in service coal cars would be replaced right away.  Also, the early steel cars would use existing truck technology, and railroads were reluctant to abandon archbar trucks right away due to sunk costs even as cast sideframe trucks became readily available.  For example, some early PRR Class X29 boxcars were equipped with archbar trucks.  Loree's D&H actually submitted a proposal to re-equip archbar trucks with roller bearings in the 1930s!
 
 
Ben Hom


PRR G25 gondolas

genegreen1942@...
 

There appears to be more than one number series for PRR G25 gondolas.  Would all G25 gons have the same appearance regardless of number series?  Same appearance but different stenciling?

PRR G25 gons 825392 (825288-825436) and 840410 (840319-840440) were on the M&StL in February 1949 and May 1950 respectively, hauling "steel" and "pig iron" respectively.  

Would the photo of PRR G25 gondola 316084 (eBay item #121669089356 from Ted Culotta) show me what 825392 or 840410 should look like?

Gene Green


Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

naptownprr
 

Some of the earliest hoppers were also wood - there's one n the museum in Strasburg, PA.

 

Jim Hunter


From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2015 10:35 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Hoppers from early 20th century
unter
 

On 6/8/2015 6:58 AM, water.kresse@... [STMFC] wrote:

I believe they were wooden flat-bottom gondola cars . . . about ready to bust in the middle.  Good catch. 

    John Allen would have loved those!  Interesting that the steel cars have archbar trucks.

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 6/8/2015 6:58 AM, water.kresse@... [STMFC] wrote:

I believe they were wooden flat-bottom gondola cars . . . about ready to bust in the middle.  Good catch. 

    John Allen would have loved those!  Interesting that the steel cars have archbar trucks.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

water.kresse@...
 

I believe they were wooden flat-bottom gondola cars . . . about ready to bust in the middle.  Good catch. 
 
The C&O kept 40-ton wooden FB gons and hopper cars around through WW One to meet demand for more cars . . . . didn't interchange them and mainly used them on short runs from mines to say blast furnaces.  They had a set of 30-ton wooden gons that got 40-ton trucks and were used to carry limestone on daily twenty-mile round trips. Pig-iron operations picked older cars also. to shuttle materials between various operations on branch lines into the twenties.
 
Al Kresse


From: "'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2015 11:26:22 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Hoppers from early 20th century

 

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-06-07-15/C1106.jpg

 

Interesting to see wood truss rod hoppers mixed in with early steel hoppers.

 

Schuyler



Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

Bruce Smith
 

John,

No 6’ gauge in 1912, afaik ;)  

I think that the center track is demonstrating a style of guard rail.  I can’t tell if the guard rails are the inner or outer rails, but there are photos of up to 5 rails on a PRR line at a similar time.  One theory is that the extra rails may have provided additional support for blind locomotive drivers on tighter curves, but that theory has the logical problem that the support is only on one side of the rail, yet the track curves in both directions.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jun 8, 2015, at 2:59 AM, John Larkin jflarkingrc@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Also interesting is the center track which looks like dual guage or long gauntlet track.  Don't  I've ever seen a piece quite like this.  Wasn't the Erir 6' originally?

John Larkin





Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

Eric Hansmann
 

I think that's a main line. It looks heftier than the other tracks and is elevated a bit. As this seems like a sharp S curve, I'm inclined to think the extra rails are guard rails. 

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

On Jun 8, 2015, at 1:59 AM, John Larkin jflarkingrc@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Also interesting is the center track which looks like dual guage or long gauntlet track.  Don't  I've ever seen a piece quite like this.  Wasn't the Erir 6' originally?

John Larkin


Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

John Larkin
 

Also interesting is the center track which looks like dual guage or long gauntlet track.  Don't  I've ever seen a piece quite like this.  Wasn't the Erir 6' originally?

John Larkin

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