Date   

Re: BAR State of Maine Products (was Re: CP 244833 box car)

Brad Smith
 

Don, I have never seen a photo of a wood RWB wood car.  This is what was written, that I am going by.  Referencing the ex-MDT wood reefers purchased by the BAR in the early 50's.  "Most were orange.  a few were painted red, white and blue."  This from the defunct historical society.  So, it is circumstantial evidence.  With no historical society at present, I don't know how I can find out more.  I have one car number of 5157 that Micro-Trains did.  It said POTATOES and not PRODUCTS.  Right now, that is all that I have.  I will try to find out more, as I am now curious.
 
Brad Smith
Franklin, WI.
 

In a message dated 6/23/2015 10:50:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

  With all due respect Brad I would have to see a photo of a BAR

wood sheathed reefer in the red, white and blue paint style to believe
it. Are you sure you are not thinking of the white above blue plan with
the brown potato on one end of the casider and no red at all? That we
know existed but red, white and blue on the wood sheathed, ex-MDT
cars I am doubtful of, believing that this did not come along until the
steel cars arrived.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Slightly off topic, maybe.

Jared Harper
 

I am in the process of scratch building several storage tanks for a bulk oil dealership on my layout.  I am using PVC for cores and plan to use styrene for a wrapper.  So I have two questions.


1.  What  thickness styrene  should I use for the wrapper?


2.  What do I use to glue the styrene to the PVC?


Thanks,


Jared Harper

Athens, GA


Re: GONDOLA FLOORS

Tim O'Connor
 

I believe there was more than one manufacturer -- If you look at the old
Revell (later Concor) gondola (loosely based on the PRR G31 gondolas) the
floor is extremely well detailed -- and I've always thought that it represents
a HYBRID style of nailable steel floor with alternating wood and steel planks.

Tim O'Connor

P.S. Properly sized NSF stencil decals are hard to find ! Vendors often omit
them on factory painted models, probably because they are so fine with small
lettering. Champ used to make some that were massively oversized.



Some gondolas in the late 40-s and 50's were delivered with "Nailable Steel Floors".
Does anyone know what this floor looked like?
Thanks in advance:
Bill Pardie


Re: GONDOLA FLOORS

Jack Mullen
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
 When the nails were pulled, they had to negotiate the reverse curve again on their way out; they must have been a pain to pull.
Indeed they were, Dennis. On jobs in my late teens, I sometimes had to either remove or install blocking, and there wasn't a wrecking bar long enough to make it easy.  When nailing blocking, hitting the groove with a nail after going through 2 or 3 inches of oak or hard yellow pine could be challenging too. Quite a jar if the nail missed and bottomed out on the deck.  Guys that did it regularly seemed to do it with no problem, but filling in, I never really got the hang of it.

Garth Groff wrote:
(b) (!) Some boxcars were built with nailable steel floors. This would be pretty hard to see on an HO model, and I suspect there was the usual wooden floor underneath to prevent water damage through the gaps in the nailable floor so the car would like any other boxcar from below.
None of the various nailable steel designs used  wood underneath as far as I know. In boxcar applications where a tight floor was desired, the joint was filled with mastic.  It was claimed to be self-sealing after a nail was pulled, but  after a few decades of aging, probably not so much.

As with other carbuilding specialties, there were various designs from various firms, either specialist suppliers or carbuilders.  Stran Steel produced flooring trademarked NSF, with "planks" 8" wide. Bethlehem and Transco had flooring with grooves every 3".  I believe Pullman-Standard's flooring had a width somewhere between those extremes..

Something around 5 or 6" wide is what I recall seeing in gons. 

Bethlehem also offered a composite floor for gons, with alternating wood planks and hat section steel, each 5-1/2" wide.  Now that would make a cool model !

Jack Mullen


Re: Hercules Powder

Gary Ray
 

Appreciate the article.

 

There was a California Powder Works between Anderson and Redding in the 20’s (have to go back to my maps to check exactly where).  Does anyone know if they manufactured there or just sold product?

Gary Ray

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 8:07 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Hercules Powder

 




THE HISTORY OF HERCULES


The name Hercules comes from a potent and explosive black powder made by the California Powder Works. The company named their product after Hercules, the Greek mythological hero known for his strength, in order to signify how powerful the black powder was. What began as a California Powder Works plant site on the shores of San Pablo Bay grew into the company town of Hercules, which thrived through one hundred years, three transferals of ownership, and five wars.

When the American Industrial Revolution began in the 1800's, California Powder Works joined the ranks and started a company on the west coast, near Santa Cruz, California, in 1861. In the business of making black powder, a highly explosive substance, the company prospered and provided fierce competition for the other west coast explosive firms. In 1868, the company began producing dynamite.

In 1869, California Powder Works established a dynamite plant in San Francisco in the same area that is now Golden Gate Park. As San Francisco developed and the populace moved closer to the plant, the dangerous business of producing explosives proved undesirable, and California Powder Works was forced to find a new location.

In 1879, California Powder Works began purchasing land on the isolated shores of San Pablo Bay. The plant was constructed in two years, and finally, in 1881 began producing dynamite. For safety purposes, the buildings were constructed in a series of gullies and ravines. The Hercules plant did not start manufacturing black powder until 1893, when the entire Santa Cruz plant and works moved north to reestablish in Hercules.

From 1881 until 1919, 59 lives were taken by explosions. The majority of the devastating blasts happened in the nitroglycerin house and in the building in which the dynamite was produced. The most disastrous explosion occurred in February, 1908, when 24 men were killed in a single explosion.

Before the United States Government declared war on Germany, the Hercules plant was involved in World War I producing dynamite and TNT (trinitrotoluene) for the Allied Forces. In 1915, the plant manufactured 20,000 pounds of explosives daily, but in 1917, after the U. S. entered the War, over seven million pounds of TNT per month were produced, making Hercules the largest-producing plant in the United States. Throughout its history, the Hercules plant experienced changes due to expansion and new product development. The powder company was easing out if its role as a manufacturer of explosives as early as 1940, when an anhydrous ammonia plant (NH3fertilizer) was built.

In 1959, Hercules began construction of a multi-million dollar manufacturing facility, the first of its kind in the western states. The company's goal was to annually produce eight million gallons of methanol, 50 million pounds of formaldehyde, and 11 thousand tons of urea formaldehyde composition. Completed in 1966, these were the 1st buildings constructed in Hercules' 25 years transition from explosives to fertilizer. Since it no longer manufactured black powder, the Hercules Powder Company was re-named Hercules, Incorporated.

In 1976, Hercules, Inc. sold the plant site to Valley Nitrogen Producers, a chemical and fertilizer producing corporation which owned other plants in California.

The plant at Hercules had operated without labor problems for over 95 years under the ownership of the Hercules Powder Company. While relations between the company and the workers did become strained at times, no disputes became critical enough to cause a strike. The only strike in the plant's history was a bitter labor/management dispute which curtailed operations in 1977, after Valley Nitrogen Producers had taken control of the plant.

The plant was closed permanently. Cost and profit contributed to the final shutdown that ended the strike and laid off employees. It actually became cheaper to purchase the product from another country and ship it to Hercules than it was to manufacture it here. The cost of natural gas, a vital part of fertilizer production, had skyrocketed with inflation.

The infamous drought of 1977 also added validity to the idea of closing the plant, because the farmers had no need to fertilize their crops if they could not irrigate. Immediately after shutdown in November of 1977, the plant was offered for sale. It remained idle until 1979, when it was purchased by a group of investors called Hercules Properties, Ltd.

After Hercules, Inc. ceased dynamite production in the 60's, the Company realized that it no longer needed the large parcels of surrounding land which had served as a buffer zone. They decided to create a new city on the land outside the plant. The City Council developed a General Plan to form a new city. After two years of working with consultants and holding numerous public meetings, the General plan for a city of 22,000 residents by the year 2000 was adopted by the Council.

Hercules, Inc. had originally intended to develop the land rather than sell it to other developers. After a close examination of the immensity of the project, they decided that their lack of experience in the development field would make the project undesirable. They began selling the land to other developers. In 1974, Centex Homes of California, Inc., purchased the first section of land, a large residential area near the northeastern boundary of the City.

The Centex purchase was a gamble. No one was sure that people would be willing to move to this part of the East Bay. Most new housing was being constructed in Central Contra Costa County and Alameda County. The work that went into the General Plan paid off. People lined up to buy the new Centex homes finished in 1975. New residents were attracted to the rural feeling of open space and to affordable houses. Hercules was a booming town once again.





Re: first use of large NYC logo

Benjamin Hom
 

Scott Chatfield asked:
"Was the first use of the large NYC logo/herald on the green & black scheme in 1959, or were some red-brown boxcars painted that way first? I know the "Century" style reporting marks were adopted in 1955, but the photos I've seen of red-brown cars still have the small logos. Somewhere in the back of my mind I thought I remember seeing a red-brown double-door boxcar with the 15-foot wide logo."

1959.  12 cars received a "cigar band" test scheme in November 1958, but I'm not sure if they were red-brown, and all of the cars were 50 ft single door cars from Lots 692-B and 700-B.   

Scroll down the page for the paint & lettering information.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm


Ben Hom


Re: HO Intermountain GN plywood box cars

Bill Welch
 


first use of large NYC logo

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Was the first use of the large NYC logo/herald on the green & black scheme in 1959, or were some red-brown boxcars painted that way first? I know the "Century" style reporting marks were adopted in 1955, but the photos I've seen of red-brown cars still have the small logos. Somewhere in the back of my mind I thought I remember seeing a red-brown double-door boxcar with the 15-foot wide logo. I only have the NYC Color Guide Volume Two.

thanks

Scott Chatfield


Re: Hercules Powder

Brad Smith
 

There was a Hercules plant on the north side of Milwaukee.  There must have been either a Hercules plant or a Hercules customer on the New Haven, as the red Hercules tank cars traveled on a NH branch line.  I don't remember which line it was.
 
Brad Smith
Franklin, WI


Re: HO Intermountain GN plywood box cars

Andy Carlson
 

Look for a CDS transfer set # 409. It is a set specifically for this car.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


From: "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] HO Intermountain GN plywood box cars

 
Folks,

Any suggestions on decals for the 1944, as built, green and orange scheme?  In HO?

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."


On Jun 26, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Hello-

I am offering some new Intermountain HO undec Great Northern plywood box car kits.

1) IMRC #41050 ............................................................................$18.50/includes shipping
2) IMRC #41050 with a pair of extra 4/5 early Dreadnaught ends..  $20/shipping included
3 IMRC #41050 as above, PLUS a pair of Kato A-3 Ride control ...$27/shipping incl

Quick note: The GN built their plywood box cars from 1944 through 1947. The car' series started out with 4/5 Early Dreadnaught Ends, and later runs had 3/4 Improved dreadnaught ends, which are the ends which are included in the Intermountain kits. For the 2) version, I add a pair of IMRC 4/5 early dreadnaught ends, which have the same posts on the backside which locate exactly into the receiver peg-holes in the car body. Something IMRC could do, but so far, has not. All 3 versions come with photoetched metal running boards.



Re: GONDOLA FLOORS

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Bill,

The other guys have about covered this, so I will only add two things. (1) The Proto 2000 53' gondolas come with what appears to be a nailable steel floor. At least it looks like one to me. It is far too smooth and regular to represent a wooden floor. (b) (!) Some boxcars were built with nailable steel floors. This would be pretty hard to see on an HO model, and I suspect there was the usual wooden floor underneath to prevent water damage through the gaps in the nailable floor so the car would like any other boxcar from below.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 6/26/15 12:12 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE PARDIEW001@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Some gondolas in the late 40-s and 50's were delivered with "Nailable Steel.Floors".
Does anyone know what this floor looked like?

Thanks in advance:

Bill Pardie



Re: HO Intermountain GN plywood box cars

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

Any suggestions on decals for the 1944, as built, green and orange scheme?  In HO?

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."


On Jun 26, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Hello-

I am offering some new Intermountain HO undec Great Northern plywood box car kits.

1) IMRC #41050 ............................................................................$18.50/includes shipping
2) IMRC #41050 with a pair of extra 4/5 early Dreadnaught ends..  $20/shipping included
3 IMRC #41050 as above, PLUS a pair of Kato A-3 Ride control ...$27/shipping incl

Quick note: The GN built their plywood box cars from 1944 through 1947. The car' series started out with 4/5 Early Dreadnaught Ends, and later runs had 3/4 Improved dreadnaught ends, which are the ends which are included in the Intermountain kits. For the 2) version, I add a pair of IMRC 4/5 early dreadnaught ends, which have the same posts on the backside which locate exactly into the receiver peg-holes in the car body. Something IMRC could do, but so far, has not. All 3 versions come with photoetched metal running boards.


Re: GATX 56608

Armand Premo
 

Yes,even in milk cans.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 1:24 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: GATX 56608

 

Jack Mullen wrote:

 

Indeed, Old Frothingslosh was "The pale stale ale with the foam on the bottom."   But before the moderator locks us up in a cell with no Guinness, I'll just say that a lot of adult beverages crossed the border in STMFCs during Prohibition, especially Windsor-Detroit . . .


      Actually a good freight traffic story. The smugglers arranged suitable "payments" to the officials involved, and thus created "in transit" paperwork indicating that carloads of distilled beverages, legally produced in Canada, were traveling under seal to Mexico. The Mexican officials, for a suitable reward, endorsed all papers as indicating that the cargoes had arrived there. The paperwork was then complete! But of course few if any cargoes really went to Mexico. Eventually the feds figured out the sche me and were able to stop it.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signature press.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4813 / Virus Database: 4365/10097 - Release Date: 06/25/15


Re: GATX 56608

Tony Thompson
 

Jack Mullen wrote:

 

Indeed, Old Frothingslosh was "The pale stale ale with the foam on the bottom."   But before the moderator locks us up in a cell with no Guinness, I'll just say that a lot of adult beverages crossed the border in STMFCs during Prohibition, especially Windsor-Detroit . . .


      Actually a good freight traffic story. The smugglers arranged suitable "payments" to the officials involved, and thus created "in transit" paperwork indicating that carloads of distilled beverages, legally produced in Canada, were traveling under seal to Mexico. The Mexican officials, for a suitable reward, endorsed all papers as indicating that the cargoes had arrived there. The paperwork was then complete! But of course few if any cargoes really went to Mexico. Eventually the feds figured out the scheme and were able to stop it.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: GATX 56608

Jack Mullen
 

Indeed, Old Frothingslosh was "The pale stale ale with the foam on the bottom."   But before the moderator locks us up in a cell with no Guinness, I'll just say that a lot of adult beverages crossed the border in STMFCs during Prohibition, especially Windsor-Detroit, and there are at least rumors that the traffic included beer in tanks.  Unlikely that any cars were designed for that service, though.

Jack Mullen


HO Intermountain GN plywood box car kits

Andy Carlson
 

Hello-

I am offering some new Intermountain HO undec Great Northern plywood box car kits.

1) IMRC #41050 ............................................................................$18.50/includes shipping
2) IMRC #41050 with a pair of extra 4/5 early Dreadnaught ends..  $20/shipping included
3 IMRC #41050 as above, PLUS a pair of Kato A-3 Ride control ...$27/shipping incl

Quick note: The GN built their plywood box cars from 1944 through 1947. The car' series started out with 4/5 Early Dreadnaught Ends, and later runs had 3/4 Improved dreadnaught ends, which are the ends which are included in the Intermountain kits. For the 2) version, I add a pair of IMRC 4/5 early dreadnaught ends, which have the same posts on the backside which locate exactly into the receiver peg-holes in the car body. Something IMRC could do, but so far, has not. All 3 versions come with photoetched metal running boards.

I accept checks and money orders. for a small fee I accept PayPal also. If interested, please contact me off-list at
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: GONDOLA FLOORS

 

The image on this patent illustrates it best, I think.
http://www.google.com/patents/US2900055


Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List
<STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, June 26, 2015 at 11:12 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] GONDOLA FLOORS







Some gondolas in the late 40-s and 50's were delivered with "Nailable
Steel.Floors".
Does anyone know what this floor looked like?

Thanks in advance:

Bill Pardie








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: GONDOLA FLOORS

 

Google images: nailable steel floor
<https://www.google.com/search?q=nailable+steel+floor&client=safari&rls=en&s
ource=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAmoVChMIlqWpxOetxgIVxqKACh1-MQD0&biw=1
489&bih=971>
Basically looked like grooves in the floor from above; you had to look at
the side to see how it worked.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List
<STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, June 26, 2015 at 11:12 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] GONDOLA FLOORS







Some gondolas in the late 40-s and 50's were delivered with "Nailable
Steel.Floors".
Does anyone know what this floor looked like?

Thanks in advance:

Bill Pardie








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: GONDOLA FLOORS

Tony Thompson
 

Bill Pardie wrote:

 

Some gondolas in the late 40-s and 50's were delivered with "Nailable Steel.Floors".
Does anyone know what this floor looked like?


     There are photos in Cycs and Trainsheds. Looks a lot like a wood floor. There were NARROW gaps between the steel "boards," which is where the nails went, but they would be about invisible in HO scale.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: GONDOLA FLOORS

Dennis Storzek
 

From the top it looks like Evergreen scribed styrene, about 5" spacing, IIRC. From the bottom it looks like the open side of a series of steel channels. These were pressed steel channels that were laid with a gap in between that more or less equaled the diameter of a 20 penny nail. The top edges had a slight radius to guide the nail into the groove, and the edges of the "planks" were formed to guide the nail into a reverse bend as it was driven. Of course, you can't see this feature when the floor is installed, so don't have to model it. When the nails were pulled, they had to negotiate the reverse curve again on their way out; they must have been a pain to pull.

Dennis Storzek

53721 - 53740 of 188631