Date   

Re: Trojan Powder [was: Hercules Powder]

Richard Brennan
 

At 09:41 AM 6/27/2015, 'Dave Nelson' Lake_Muskoka@att.net [STMFC] wrote:
The Sanborn’s for Hercules CA that I've look
at are blank. Not even an admission refused
notation. No surprise really… what fire
departtment was willing to go there? FWIW there
were multiple explosives industries on either
side of Pt Richmond on SF Bay… Hercules to the
eaast, Giant and Cal Cap were just to the south,
and Pt Richmond itself was used for storage and
loading ships. Today, Pt. Richmond is a park.
Another East Bay site was the Trojan Powder
Works... active in San Lorenzo (just south of
Oakland/Alameda) from the 1900s to the 1960s...
The CSRM has track arrangement drawings for
"Robert"... aka "Roberts Landing" on the SP
Mulford line, formerly "West San Lorenzo" on the
narrow-gauge SPC, and Vintage Aerials has photos
of the building and inside-plant track arrangement.

Dynamite was shipped both by scow-schooner from
the slough... and in box cars on the SP. The
road into the site, now Lewelling Blvd., was
pretty primitive, so the nitrates probably came
in by rail, but I don't know if this was in
granular or liquid form... and was probably
era-dependant. A specific use of Trojan Powder
was to build a little ditch called the Panama Canal.

During the 1970s... this was identified as an EPA
(Environmental Protection Agency) Toxic Waste
Super-Fund cleanup site, the nitrate-saturated
soil was dug out 15 feet deep... and the site
declared 'remediated'. I suspect the dirty-dirt
would have gone via the SP in gons or hoppers to some other benefactor state...

The land was annexed to San Leandro and developed
in the 1990s... I now live dead-center on top of the former buildings site.
As today's Mulford local rumbles past and shakes
the ground-fill... I'm still careful not to light any matches! <VBG>


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
MP 17.8 - Roberts Landing [Robert] on the SP Mulford Line.
--------------------

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Hercules Powder

Dave Nelson
 

The Sanborn’s for Hercules CA that I’ve look at are blank.  Not even an admission refused notation.  No surprise really… what fire department was willing to go there?  FWIW there were multiple explosives industries on either side of Pt Richmond on SF Bay… Hercules to the east, Giant and Cal Cap were just to the south, and Pt Richmond itself was used for storage and loading ships.  Today, Pt. Richmond is a park.

 

As for what Hercules Powder made, a substantial portion of their production was Gun Cotton which is made from concentrated Sulfuric Acid, 70% Nitric acid, ordinary cellulous (cotton, sawdust, etc) and a clean water rinse.  Gun Cotton burns at subsonic speeds which makes it ideal for artillery and small arms charges.  They also made high explosives like dynamite for mining & construction… and whatever compound was the “active” ingredient in those artillery shells launched by the gun cotton.

 

So at a minimum one could properly call those tank car loads Sulfuric and/or Nitric acid and probably be correct.

 

Dave Nelson

=================================================

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Jerry,

Have you looked at the Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps? Major industries were almost always covered in detail on these maps, including rail sidings, and it is interesting to trace changes from map to map.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

 


Re: Hercules Powder

Brad Smith
 

Chuck, is it one of the red cars?

Brad Smith

Sent from Brad's iPod

On Jun 27, 2015, at 9:06 AM, 'Chuck Cover' chuck.cover@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

There is a Proto 2000 kit for an 8,000 gallon Hercules Tank car.  I just built one.  You can probably find one on EBay.

 

Chuck


Re: Slightly off topic, maybe.

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Yes that loctite is available this side of the pond its good glue.

Paul Doggett UK




Sent from Samsung mobile

"fgexbill@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Jared, Loctite markets a CA with a built-in brush. I have only used it once but it was for a similar type of application where I  needed to spread the CA over a large area using as I remember styrene and resin. Worked like a charm. I have seen it at either Home Depot  or Lowe's and recently picked up another blister pack for "just in case."


Bill Welch


Re: Slightly off topic, maybe.

Jack Burgess
 

Jared…



Any of these materials will work better than styrene since even .005” styrene is equal to nearly ½” thick steel in HO.



Here is a variation of a trick that Tom Madden talked about a few years ago while “wrapping” a tank car body. Assume that the tank has three courses. First, wrap the entire tank with one layer of the Mylar or whatever you choose to use. Then cut a piece of material equal to 2/3 the length of the tank and apply that with the edge of the wrapper at one end of the tank. Then cut a piece equal to 1/3 the length and apply it too with one edge at the same end of the tank. Add Archer rivets and you are done.



Jack Burgess





From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2015 4:20 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Slightly off topic, maybe.








I am in the process of scratch building several storage tanks for a bulk oil dealership on my layout. I am using PVC for cores and plan to use styrene for a wrapper. So I have two questions.



1. What thickness styrene should I use for the wrapper?



2. What do I use to glue the styrene to the PVC?



Thanks,



Jared Harper

Athens, GA










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Hercules Powder

Bill Welch
 

Although I don't remember which specific varieties I used, I remember the distinctive squat metal cans that the two or three types of Hercules powders I used for reloading .45 Auto and .357 Magnum ammo. I think it must have come via Railway Express. This was mid-late 1960's early 1970's.

Bill Welch


looking for info on early side-dump ballast car (SP "battleships")

rwbowdidge@...
 

I'm looking for information on cars similar to the Southern Pacific's "battleship" side-dump ballast cars, built in 1902 by the American Steel Foundry in Granite City, Illinois.  These cars were steel, and very boxy.  They had solid side doors that stretched the length of the car, with a line of hinges 2/3 of the way up the car.  These cars were originally built for the Lucin Cutoff, but were also used for Colorado River flooding, San Francisco earthquake cleanup.  Some lasted into the 1950's in maintenance service.

I haven't seen much information on these cars; Tony Thompson's freight cars book has three pages of pictures.  I'm looking for more information on the underframe and structure.  Can anyone point me at other railroads that might have had the same/similar cars?

Here's a sample photo of the cars, taken from an article in the "Desert Sun" newspaper about the Salton Sea damage to SP tracks.

Thanks,

Robert


Re: Slightly off topic, maybe.

tjcataldo
 

0.10 will work jared  acc glue will be fine or tamiya glue

       tom cataldo

On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 4:19 PM, harperandbrown@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

I am in the process of scratch building several storage tanks for a bulk oil dealership on my layout.  I am using PVC for cores and plan to use styrene for a wrapper.  So I have two questions.


1.  What  thickness styrene  should I use for the wrapper?


2.  What do I use to glue the styrene to the PVC?


Thanks,


Jared Harper

Athens, GA




--
Thomas  j Cataldo


Re: Hercules Powder

David Sieber
 

 In STMFC, Gene Green said:  I STILL don't know what was carried in those tank cars but I have decided this is not worth pursuing.  I'm pretty sure that, whatever is was, it wouldn't have come from or gone to Marshalltown, Iowa.  If I ever come across appropriate decals and a suitable tank car at the same time, I may just have a Hercules Powder tank car pass through the scene in a through freight but even that is unlikely.  Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
Gene, per the history " The powder company was easing out if its role as a manufacturer of explosives as early as 1940, when an anhydrous ammonia plant (NH3fertilizer) was built ... In 1959, Hercules began construction of a multi-million dollar manufacturing facility, the first of its kind in the western states. The company's goal was to annually produce eight million gallons of methanol, 50 million pounds of formaldehyde, and 11 thousand tons of urea formaldehyde composition. Completed in 1966, these were the first buildings constructed in Hercules' 25 years transition from explosives to fertilizer."
Might there have been a receiver of anhydrous ammonia fertilizer in or near the Marshalltown area during your modeling era?
Dave Sieber, Reno  NV

 


Re: Hercules Powder

Chuck Cover
 

There is a Proto 2000 kit for an 8,000 gallon Hercules Tank car.  I just built one.  You can probably find one on EBay.

 

Chuck


Re: Hercules Powder

George Corral <jorgec@...>
 

Hi all,

 

I sent the story about Hercules to my high school buddy who was the manager of the city of Hercules and he replied with this added information:

 

Pretty accurate story. One little known fact was that a majority of the laborers were Chinese. They had separate living quarters. The Chinese workers were given numbers and were addressed by their number not there name. Of the 27 killed in the explosion most were believed to be Chinese. 

 

I saw segments of the narrow gauge rail lines that carried dynamite from the plant which was on the water into the hillside where bunkers were located.”

 

George Corral

La Grange, KY


Re: Hercules Powder

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Jerry,

Have you looked at the Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps? Major industries were almost always covered in detail on these maps, including rail sidings, and it is interesting to trace changes from map to map.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 6/27/15 7:22 AM, asychis@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Since we are talking "powder" companies, does anyone have information on the Egyptian Powder Company? The main factory was in Herrin, Illinois, and I believe it was sold to Olin.  There are a few scattered references to it on the net.  I once saw a logo on some site, but cannot find it back.  It will be on my MoPac layout as a major customer, and the freight car traffic to and from will generate a lot of switching.  Jerry Michels


Re: Hercules Powder

asychis@...
 

Since we are talking "powder" companies, does anyone have information on the Egyptian Powder Company? The main factory was in Herrin, Illinois, and I believe it was sold to Olin.  There are a few scattered references to it on the net.  I once saw a logo on some site, but cannot find it back.  It will be on my MoPac layout as a major customer, and the freight car traffic to and from will generate a lot of switching.  Jerry Michels


Re: Slightly off topic, maybe.

Bill Welch
 

Jared, Loctite markets a CA with a built-in brush. I have only used it once but it was for a similar type of application where I  needed to spread the CA over a large area using as I remember styrene and resin. Worked like a charm. I have seen it at either Home Depot  or Lowe's and recently picked up another blister pack for "just in case."

Bill Welch


Re: Slightly off topic, maybe.

Tim O'Connor
 

Jared

I bought mine at an art supply store. It came in a huge sheet
but rolls up easily. We used to use it for technical drawings
sometimes, when I was a draftsman (long ago). It's much less
expensive than Evergreen styrene.

Tim O'Connor

Where would I buy mylar?

Jared Harper


Re: Waterloo, Cedar Falls & Northern flat car

Merlyn Lauber
 

Rob and others: To follow up on this flat, I have color slides of #4012 taken in 1959 and 1970 and the car is Black with white lettering. I also found a slide of #X4020 also taken in 1970 in the Brown Or Oxide Red/Brown you mention. Checking with Bob Levis and his extensive collection of WCF&N records, the cars were listed at 48'-4" and 48'-3" over end beams. The records do not list colors. The X4020 was in work train service and may have been repainted, but the paint appears to be an older paint job; by that I mean not freshly painted. I hope this helps those that want to model this car.

Merlyn Lauber

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Adams steamera@netins.net [STMFC]" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 12:16:50 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Waterloo, Cedar Falls & Northern flat car

I should have added that the few available color images of WCF&N freight
equipment showed it to be painted an oxide red/brown color. I've never
seen a color image of their flat cars. Stenciling was most likely
white, though aluminum is also a possibility. Some of the WCF&N motors
and other equipment bore aluminum stenciling. Either way, weathering
will take care of any questions.

Trucks appear to be a 50-ton Andrews U-section.

Rob Adams

On 6/18/15 12:04 AM, Rob Adams steamera@netins.net [STMFC] wrote:
Guys;

Your conclusion that the Varney car could be a starting point assumes
the prototype car to be a 40-ish footer.

The WCF&N flat in this photo is one of 25 cars in listed in the ORER as
of October 1949 in series 4000-4024 (there was not a 400-series of flats
on the road). The register entries list them as 47' 10" in length and
10' wide, considerably larger than the Varney flat. I've not yet been
able to determine the origins of these cars, but based on the
construction features and the fact that this series of flats were not
listed on the WCF&N roster in the either 1928 or 1937 ORER entries, they
were very likely second hand cars (the case for much of the Cedar Valley
Road's equipment).

Perhaps just as interesting as the car is the lading. That it is loaded
with tractors is predictable, but the color of them is what strikes me
as ironic. The Waterloo, Iowa John Deere tractor plant was a major
on-line customer of the WCF&N, and the road hauled many, many flat cars
of John Deere tractors over the years. For this car to be carrying a
load of Farmall tractors (Model H?) is almost sacrilege.

Kind regards,

Rob Adams
Wellman, IA



On 6/17/15 11:06 PM, Clark Cooper csc@mchsi.com [STMFC] wrote:
A good compromise might be to take the plastic Varney flat and build new side and end sills, keeping the deck and underframe as they are. In the photo it looks like there might be a center sill that hangs down a bit lower than the side sills, but it's hard to tell.

WCF&N was relatively small, about 81 miles of mainline. I wonder if this was a second-hand car.

-Clark Cooper

On Jun 17, 2015, at 10:04 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@comcast.net [STMFC] wrote:

Mike

I would not call it a "match" but I had to look it up as I'd never seen one of these
before. Anyway the sill depth over the bolsters is good but the fishbelly is too shallow
and would have to be deepened. But if the stake pockets are a match this Varney car could
be a good starting point for a kitbash. Also the Varney car has the deck overhang like the
prototype, often seen on farm equipment flats.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/391175388139

Tim O'


It does match the Varney Flatcars, both plastic and metal ones. Spotted on eBay….. I don't
know how much rework you might do on one. You might end up sanding all details off and
using the blanked car to properly detail.
Mike Bauers
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Mono Kote Trim

Andy Carlson
 

Jared-

I  have purchased my Mono Kote trim from a well-stocked RC hobby store about 40 miles from me in thousand Oaks, CA. Do not get regular Mono Kote, as it is for large surfaces and uses heat guns and hot irons to shrink over the skeletal frame work of an RC air plane. The Mono Kote trim is just that, it is intended for trimming the air frames after the sheathing has been applied. The trim is a Mylar type of polymer and very thin (I haven't measured it, but I suspect it is in the .004" range).

I have successfully used the "Chrome" trim for making a stainless steel tank. After it has been applied, spray it with a very well thinned purple lacquer. This thinned purple is a tip I got from Paul Lubliner who used this technique for his factory plated A and B unit Highliners bodies.

The tackiness of the self-adhesive is maybe tighter than postage stamps. Be careful when applying a riveted sheet, as the rubbing process to removed trapped air bubbles can flatten the rivets. I like to leave the backing on a sheet and position the sheet exactly where it is to be placed. Restraining the positioned sheet with a thumb, use the other hand to  peel a corner from the backing and attach that to the surface to be applied, pulling the backing back as you slowly lay the sheet into position.

I tried a patch panel for an X29 and I felt the results were worthy of repeating.

As Bill Welch often reminds us--military hobby stores can offer some great ideas for model railroading.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Jared Harper wrote:
 
Andy,

Where would I purchase these peel and stick sheets?














Re: Slightly off topic, maybe.

A&Y Dave in MD
 

It's made and trademarked by DuPont. You can buy sheets of it or generic polyester film at Walmart, Joann's fabric, or probably Michael's.

Sent from Dave Bott's iPad

On Jun 26, 2015, at 10:32 PM, harperandbrown@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Where would I buy mylar?


Jared Harper


Re: Hercules Powder

Brad Smith
 

Well, they passed thru somewhere to get to Milwaukee and New England. I just wish someone would make the older red car. Two versions of the newer scheme have been made in N-Scale. 

Brad Smith

Sent from Brad's iPod

On Jun 26, 2015, at 8:40 PM, genegreen1942@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I STILL don't know what was carried in those tank cars but I have decided this is not worth pursuing.  I'm pretty sure that, whatever is was, it wouldn't have come from or gone to Marshalltown, Iowa.  If I ever come across appropriate decals and a suitable tank car at the same time, I may just have a Hercules Powder tank car pass through the scene in a through freight but even that is unlikely.  Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

Gene Green


Re: Slightly off topic, maybe.

Jared Harper
 

Andy,

Where would I purchase these peel and stick sheets?

Jared Harper

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